Singaporeans have handed a spectacular victory to Tharman Shanmugaratnam as their country’s fourth Indian-origin president. People of Indian origin in Singapore constitute only seven percent of its 5.64 million population but Shanmugaratnam won a whopping 70 plus percent votes.
To understand what Shanmugaratnam’s rise means, Mayank Chhaya Reports spoke to the well-known Singapore based journalist and writer Ravi Velloor.
To understand what Shanmugaratnam’s rise means, Mayank Chhaya Reports spoke to the well-known Singapore based journalist and writer Ravi Velloor.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00 (dramatic music)
00:02 (dramatic music)
00:05 (dramatic music)
00:08 (dramatic music)
00:37 - Singaporeans have handed a spectacular victory
00:40 to Thurman Shanmugarathnam
00:42 as the country's first non-Chinese president
00:46 and have in the process illustrated a growing trend
00:49 towards robust race relations
00:52 among the city-state majority and various ethnic minorities.
00:56 People of Indian origin in Singapore constitute only 7%
01:02 of its 5.64 million population,
01:05 but Shanmugarathnam won a whopping 70 plus percent votes.
01:10 Known as a man of great intellect and empathy,
01:13 both in Singapore and abroad,
01:15 the 66-year-old will be sworn in next week.
01:18 It's a measure of his popularity
01:20 that he was widely seen as the likeliest prime minister
01:25 once the incumbent, Lee Hsin Loong, stepped down.
01:28 Instead, he chose to go for a role
01:30 that is largely ceremonial
01:32 because he thought he would not be good
01:35 at being prime minister,
01:36 as well as his belief in encouraging younger leadership.
01:40 To understand what Thurman Shanmugarathnam's rise means,
01:44 Mayank Chaiya Report spoke
01:45 to the well-known Singapore-based journalist,
01:48 writer, and public speaker, Ravi Velour.
01:51 Welcome to Mayank Chaiya Report, Ravi.
01:54 It's a great pleasure to have you on.
01:56 - Wonderful to see you, Mike.
02:00 How do you view the spectacular win of Thurman Shanmugarathnam
02:05 in the broader socio-political and cultural context?
02:09 - Well, Mike, I think you chose a very interesting word.
02:13 You said spectacular.
02:15 I'd also add the word startling
02:17 because everyone expected a much closer contest.
02:23 And in this country, straw polls are not allowed.
02:28 But even so, analysts can speculate.
02:31 And most analysts had thought
02:33 that Thurman Shanmugarathnam would win
02:37 by maybe 50, 55% of the vote.
02:41 So what turned out was a true landslide,
02:44 and that was totally unexpected.
02:47 And to get more than 70% of the vote
02:50 in a three-cornered contest
02:52 was truly spectacular, as you put it.
02:56 And the fact that he belongs to a minority community,
03:01 the Indian community, so-called Indian community,
03:05 is only 7% of Singapore.
03:10 And that makes it even more startling.
03:13 - You know, it's interesting you mentioned 7%.
03:17 It just struck me that a community with 7% in Singapore
03:23 ends up having someone who scores 70% of popular vote,
03:27 but it's 10 times its demographic weight.
03:31 It's quite extraordinary.
03:33 - It is.
03:35 And I think the key lesson of this presidential election
03:40 is that the two pillars of Singapore's framework,
03:50 which is multiracialism in society
03:54 and meritocracy in government and business,
03:58 and these two pillars are substantially intact.
04:02 And for me, these are the two lessons
04:03 that came out of the election.
04:05 - Now, from what I understand reading about him,
04:08 there was pretty wide consensus
04:10 that he could have been the country's next prime minister.
04:14 Why did he choose not to exercise that option?
04:16 Of course, I read that he's in favor
04:19 of the new generation of leadership now.
04:21 - Well, it is true that if you talk to the man
04:27 in the street in Singapore,
04:29 there is, or should I say there was,
04:33 overwhelming desire to see Tharman as prime minister
04:36 after Mr. Lee Hsien Loong ends his tenure
04:41 whenever he chooses to do that.
04:43 And maybe it is Singapore's loss that it was not to be,
04:48 but Tharman himself ruled it out a few years ago saying,
04:53 and he explained that, he put it this way,
04:55 saying that, "Look, I'm good at giving policy advice
04:58 "and working with other people and things,
05:00 "but perhaps prime minister is not the job
05:03 "that I might do well."
05:04 And if he believes that to be the case,
05:08 I think we must respect him for it.
05:12 But that said and done,
05:13 I think he has walked into what I believe
05:16 is the perfect position for him and for Singapore.
05:21 - This is a largely ceremonial figurehead sort of position
05:25 as president.
05:27 What kind of influence do you think he might be able
05:30 to exercise given that he has a stellar record
05:32 as an economic thinker?
05:34 - Well, Mike, you're right.
05:38 It is a largely ceremonial position, as you put it.
05:42 And the president's principle role
05:47 is to safeguard the nation's reserves
05:51 and to maintain the integrity of the civil service.
05:54 But that said, there are a thousand ways
05:55 that an articulate, thoughtful, globally influential,
06:00 respected person can influence things.
06:03 And I'm sure that Tharman will find his own way of doing so
06:08 without meddling in the government directly.
06:11 - This is rather speculative, somewhat of an what-if question.
06:16 What if he had become the first non-Chinese prime minister
06:20 of Singapore?
06:20 How do you think it might have been received?
06:23 - Well, I think, as I told you,
06:26 I think there was huge sentiment on the ground
06:31 that he would make a wonderful prime minister
06:34 and that cuts across society.
06:35 It cuts across age and gender and race.
06:40 But if the man says that he was not ready for it himself
06:45 and then didn't want a job, I think we shouldn't speculate.
06:49 But I think to go a little step back a little bit
06:52 into your question,
06:54 although you didn't ask me that specifically,
06:57 I'd say that we are in a very interesting position
07:01 where today's Singaporean is willing to accept
07:06 somebody from a minority race
07:13 and judge him on the basis of his personality,
07:18 on the basis of his character,
07:20 on the basis of the intellectual capacity
07:22 that he brings to his job and his various qualities.
07:26 And I think the Singaporean has done very well for himself
07:29 by picking a wonderful president.
07:32 - To slightly digress, it strikes me
07:34 that wherever you look where Indians are,
07:36 be it in this country where I'm in the US,
07:39 we are about 1% of the country's population.
07:42 And yet we bunch so much above our weight.
07:47 I mean, on the Republican side,
07:48 you have two aspirants of Indian origin.
07:52 You have covered the community across the world
07:56 for a long time.
07:57 You have a particular expertise on that as well.
08:00 What do you think makes it so effective
08:04 for Indians everywhere to rise to position
08:07 of power and influence?
08:09 - Well, I think Mike, I'm not any great expert
08:14 on what you just asked me, but just from observations,
08:18 I think the Indian mind is conditioned
08:23 in a very interesting way.
08:25 In the first place, it teaches you to adjust
08:29 to people and to situations.
08:32 And it teaches you to work in multicultural,
08:35 multi-linguistic environments.
08:39 And most Indians have grown up speaking
08:42 more than one language.
08:43 And every language is a universe and it builds your mind.
08:47 And I think that sophistication,
08:49 that ability to navigate tough situations
08:52 and not be too daunted by something
08:55 that seems pretty formidable at some point,
08:58 but find a way around it.
09:00 I think that translates, especially in corporate life,
09:03 to what you're seeing in the United States,
09:05 that ability to adjust.
09:06 If you look at many of the Indians
09:10 who've done well in your country,
09:12 they have come from, they're the children
09:16 of railway officials, civil servants,
09:19 or maybe even military officials.
09:21 And all these people, if you look at their parents,
09:24 they've been transferred around the country.
09:26 So they learn to move, they learn to adjust,
09:28 they learn to make new friends,
09:29 and they learn to navigate situations.
09:31 And I think that really is the essence of the Indian mind.
09:35 Plus the fact that two or three languages
09:37 and each language, as I said,
09:39 is an entire thought process that resides in your mind.
09:43 So the Indian mind is a very complex mind
09:46 and it's conditioned to adapt to change
09:50 and to emerge from it fairly successfully, I'd say.
09:55 - Do you think with the rise of Thurman,
10:02 and I don't know why they always address him
10:03 by his first name, because I saw everywhere
10:05 he is referred to as Mr. Thurman,
10:08 do you think that in a way settles the debate
10:11 whether or not Singapore is now ready
10:14 for a minority prime minister at some point?
10:18 - Yes, I think so.
10:19 It does settle it, and I think it shows
10:22 how far along the road Singapore has come
10:25 as a nation, as a community.
10:29 And it's the result of so many things
10:31 that have come together, including the housing policy,
10:35 which as Thurman himself pointed out a few years ago,
10:38 it's seen as very intrusive that public housing,
10:42 80%, 85% of Singaporeans live in public housing.
10:45 And in public housing has come
10:48 one of the most intrusive policies
10:50 where the state says the housing block
10:54 should reflect the ethnic mix of the nation.
10:57 So you're forced to live with Chinese neighbors,
11:00 with Indian, Malay, everyone has to pass each other's door
11:04 and learn to live together.
11:05 And I think, and I'm not taking credit for this thought,
11:08 this is what Thurman himself said a few years ago.
11:11 And I completely agree that this is the essence
11:16 of the Singapore life, and that is manifesting today
11:20 alongside high levels of education,
11:23 knowledge of the world, and various other things
11:28 to come together to say, hey,
11:30 we have a good man for the job.
11:31 He's the best for the job.
11:32 Let's give it to him.
11:33 - What do you think has caused this sociocultural shift
11:38 over the last few decades?
11:40 I mean, there has been a history of some tensions,
11:44 ethnic tensions in terms of the way
11:47 the community is structured.
11:49 What do you think has happened in the last, say,
11:51 five, eight years that has caused such a remarkable change?
11:55 - I think, mind that it would start with your country.
12:00 The United States has made, especially the Trump era
12:04 has made certain obnoxious positions fairly,
12:09 I wouldn't say acceptable, but more current
12:12 and used by leaders whom we elect to high office.
12:17 And that has diminished, that has diluted
12:22 the quality of the leadership.
12:24 And, you know, I mean, whatever you say,
12:26 the United States is still the city on the hill.
12:28 And what happens in your country does affect the world,
12:31 just like what happens in the country of your birth,
12:34 India, does affect this region.
12:36 So if the US gets more intolerant,
12:40 and if political leaders in your country
12:43 are able to say things in public,
12:44 which would be nose holding for a lot of other people,
12:49 that makes it a little more acceptable
12:51 to a bunch of idiots around the world
12:53 to also use that same language.
12:55 And the same goes for India.
12:57 And the same goes for India.
12:58 Let me make that very clear.
13:00 What happens in India does not stay in India.
13:03 And all of our nations in this part of the world,
13:05 in Southeast Asia, that try to work with multicultural,
13:09 multiracial, multireligious societies,
13:11 and to keep them together, we get affected.
13:14 If the perception, whether it's true or not,
13:17 I'm not passing judgment on it.
13:19 If the perception prevails that India is being unfair
13:24 to its minorities or being, you know,
13:27 you know, I mean, mistreating its minorities,
13:33 that affects this part of the world as well.
13:35 Because we too need India as a beacon.
13:39 It's a beacon of democracy.
13:40 It's a beacon of growth.
13:41 And it's a beacon for people of various faiths
13:46 living together in one umbrella.
13:48 And we hope that India stays true to its faith
13:52 of what it started as,
13:55 and that the India project remains, you know,
13:59 that it is, you know, that we reject the two nation theory
14:04 or the three nation theory or whatever it is,
14:06 and that we are one nation.
14:07 And if India can keep that,
14:10 we in Southeast Asia would also breathe a lot easier.
14:14 - Indeed, indeed.
14:15 I mean, that's a great sentiment to express here.
14:18 There is some observation being made about the fact
14:22 that he's the first non-Chinese president to be voted in.
14:26 Tell me a bit about that.
14:29 Why is it significant?
14:31 - Well, as I said, Mike, as you said, it is true.
14:37 He's the first non-ethnic Chinese president
14:42 that Singapore's had.
14:43 And he was actually voted in a ballot
14:46 that is a secret ballot.
14:48 I mean, nobody can tell when you go into a voting booth
14:51 what sentiment strives you to cast that vote,
14:54 you know, whether it's your race or your religion
14:56 or what somebody told you or whatever biases.
14:59 The fact that this man, by the way,
15:03 his popularity has been consistent
15:07 if you look at the last two elections,
15:08 he's outpolled his own party by a significant margin.
15:13 And no, his constituency has had the highest number of votes
15:19 for his party, which is the People's Action Party.
15:23 So he not only is off the party,
15:25 but he's also a man who has his own position in this country
15:30 and it's based on intellect.
15:35 It's based on integrity.
15:38 It's based on empathy and it's based on hard work
15:42 because the way he treats his constituents,
15:45 the way he deals with them,
15:47 the way he tries to fix their problems
15:49 and to give advice and what is possible,
15:52 it's frank advice, sincerely given.
15:55 And people thought that his appeal
15:59 was only to his constituents,
16:02 but it's very clear that it's spread across the nation.
16:04 And that is something that is remarkable.
16:07 - You know, my sense is sitting here, Afar,
16:10 is that he seems to have risen above,
16:12 outgrown in a sense,
16:14 the political dynamic that he was in for a long time.
16:17 He's a non-partisan sort of a figure now,
16:22 not because he became president,
16:23 but there were signs that he was already becoming that.
16:26 - You could say that.
16:28 I would take that more than non-partisan.
16:34 I'd say that Thurman has always had
16:36 an independent streak in him.
16:38 You cannot say that he's non-partisan
16:42 because he worked within the party system
16:43 for all the years that he was in the government.
16:48 I'm not talking about his civil service career,
16:51 but when he was part of the party and part of the cabinet.
16:55 Obviously he's not partisan.
16:56 He's bound by the rules of cabinet.
16:58 Whatever he might've said in closed door meetings,
17:01 when they come out,
17:02 they speak as one unit.
17:06 And he thrived in that system and he did very well,
17:10 but he also successfully carved out an image for himself,
17:14 a profile for himself of being independent,
17:18 of being empathetic,
17:20 and truly caring for ordinary Singaporeans.
17:24 And what he's got today is the reward for that approach.
17:30 - Speaking of his empathetic nature,
17:33 a lot has been said about the fact
17:36 that he's a gentlemanly politician,
17:38 not given to bad-mouthing rivals.
17:40 Has that been a career-long attribute?
17:42 - I would say that,
17:46 I don't think,
17:48 frankly, that's not the style.
17:53 For bad-mouthing people,
17:55 it's not really the style in Singapore, I think.
17:59 - I see.
18:00 - Yeah, I mean,
18:01 and I think certainly Tharman himself
18:05 is not the type to do that.
18:07 I mean, during this campaign,
18:08 there were a few issues that came up
18:11 and I think he dealt with them in a very mature way.
18:14 He said, "He's not gonna go there.
18:15 He's not gonna go here."
18:17 And I think people appreciated him for that.
18:21 But as I said, he stands above the fray.
18:26 And that was so obvious.
18:31 And I think,
18:32 and what you see is the fruit of that.
18:36 - When does he take over?
18:39 Is there a formal swearing-in that happens?
18:42 - It would be next week, actually.
18:45 I think the current president, Parimal Yaqub,
18:49 she steps down on the 13th.
18:51 And Tharman,
18:54 President-elect Tharman takes office the next day,
18:59 which is 14th of September.
19:01 - And just a minor detail,
19:03 is there a sort of a resplendent opulent resident
19:08 that he moves into?
19:09 - It's not.
19:11 It's a very, it's called the Istana.
19:13 Istana is a Malay for government house.
19:16 And it's space that he shares with the prime minister,
19:18 so he doesn't have exclusive run of the property.
19:21 It's a substantial property,
19:24 but I don't think he's going to occupy it.
19:26 His office will be there,
19:28 but I,
19:28 Singapore presidents don't generally occupy,
19:32 it's not Rashivadi Bhavan, if you ask me,
19:34 in the sense that the Bhavan part of it is,
19:37 is not used that much.
19:41 So, Mr. Tharman will be there for,
19:46 to work during the day.
19:47 And I guess his meetings will be held there.
19:50 And probably more than a few times a week,
19:54 he and the prime minister will cross paths
19:56 along the corridors.
19:58 So, it's a very functional building,
20:01 and I think he will continue to live in his own house.
20:04 Probably protected a little more than he was before.
20:09 So, that's Singapore.
20:12 - If Indians were looking at this model in Singapore,
20:16 the equation between the prime minister and the president,
20:19 is it similar to what we have in India?
20:22 - Well,
20:24 you could, in a sense, say that,
20:30 but I don't think the president of India
20:34 has a say in civil service appointments,
20:38 or in controlling the national reserves.
20:42 I think that's very much- - That's a big difference.
20:43 That's a big difference, right?
20:45 - It's a big difference.
20:48 But there are similarities in that president
20:52 seen as a Rashtrapati, as they say in India,
20:55 the father of the nation.
20:57 And he's a unifying figure.
21:01 He belongs to everybody.
21:02 He doesn't belong to a single party, or he should not.
21:05 And I think Mr. Tharman, I think,
21:08 will truly live up to that mandate.
21:10 And I think that I appreciated the fact that he said,
21:14 "Look, regardless of whether you voted for me or not,
21:17 I want to be your president."
21:19 So I think that's a very good approach.
21:21 And I think some of the people
21:23 who might have not have voted for him
21:26 may have wondered why they didn't vote for him.
21:29 - Right, just last couple of things.
21:30 One is, I'm curious why the office has a sway
21:35 over civil services, you mentioned, as well as reserves.
21:39 Explain that to me.
21:40 - I don't know, frankly.
21:42 The reserves is because you need a custodian
21:44 and somebody who puts another eye
21:46 because the government has its own interests, right?
21:49 The first thing, I mean, among other things,
21:53 aside from ruling effectively, is also to get reelected.
21:56 So the president doesn't need to get his party reelected.
22:02 So it's an outside eye.
22:11 And he should be, his mandate is to think
22:14 for the good of Singapore in a completely holistic way,
22:18 which is also the mandate of the government.
22:20 But the mandate of the government is also tempered
22:23 by the fact that they also need to get reelected.
22:26 So there needs to be a balance.
22:28 And I think the president, with his sagacity
22:31 and with his wisdom, and that approach should always...
22:35 That's my understanding of the presidency.
22:39 - Right.
22:40 Just to conclude, in your immediate neighborhood,
22:43 you have Malaysia,
22:45 which also has a large population of Indian extraction.
22:49 What do you think something like this
22:50 does to the community there?
22:52 - You know, Mike, I think it's a lesson for the whole world,
22:58 not just my neighbors, Malaysia and Indonesia.
23:01 But while I celebrate the tremendous vote
23:08 that Mr. Tharman has got,
23:12 I do wish that someday we would also have a candidate
23:16 from the Malay community, Malay Muslim community,
23:19 who's equally popular, equally well-regarded in Singapore.
23:24 And that will be the lesson that we would be able
23:28 to highlight to our neighbors
23:30 without saying so in so many words.
23:33 It's the fact that a truly meritocratic,
23:36 race-blind society, you know.
23:39 And to me, that will be the day
23:43 when Singapore truly becomes spectacular.
23:46 - Ravi, I'm interested to know from you
23:52 about Mr. Tharman's Indian roots.
23:55 Highlight some, I mean, I'm rather intrigued by that.
23:58 - Well, I'd say his Indian roots
24:03 are a bit of a misnomer, Mike.
24:07 The reason being that to begin with,
24:09 he's a third-generation Singaporean.
24:10 And if you really go trace his ethnicity
24:15 back four generations,
24:18 it's not really Indian as much as Ceylonese Tamil.
24:21 But the fact remains that the Indian civilization
24:25 does impact, you know, Ceylon and the Tamils in Ceylon
24:30 greatly, and to that extent, you know,
24:33 you could say that he's of Indian origin,
24:35 or at least culturally, he's certainly influenced.
24:39 But in this country, what happens is, you know,
24:41 nobody goes into the specificities.
24:45 So what happens is, you know,
24:46 there's just broad classifications of Chinese, Malay, Indian.
24:49 So to that extent, he's of Indian origin.
24:54 But if you really want to drill it down,
24:56 I'd really think that he belongs
24:58 to a highly evolved Ceylonese Tamil mind
25:03 that is, you know, that he's inherited, you know,
25:08 that his tribal memory probably goes back.
25:11 And, you know, Ceylonese Tamils
25:13 have done great work in Singapore.
25:15 - Right.
25:15 - They've been, including, you know,
25:18 National Airline and various other things, you know,
25:22 and great bureaucrats, great people in education,
25:26 in medicine have been Ceylonese Tamils.
25:30 And, you know, Mr. Tharman belongs to that strain.
25:33 - I see.
25:34 - Yes.
25:36 - Oh, that's fascinating.
25:37 I'm glad you mentioned that.
25:38 So thank you.
25:39 We wrap it up on that note, Ravi.
25:42 - Okay, buddy.