This week we react to Kilmarnock's progression in the Viaplay League Cup after a shock defeat for Celtic, and a look ahead to see who will be closer to Europe - Hibernian or Aston Villa - as John McGinn returns to play against the Edinburgh side.
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Hello and welcome to National World Fitbit Talk,
00:08 your nan's favorite football podcast, Ken.
00:11 It's a show where we break down the latest news
00:13 and results from the Scottish Premiership and around SPFL.
00:16 I'm your host, Martin Simpson.
00:18 I'm joined by regular guest,
00:19 Lewis Anderson from Glasgow World,
00:21 and this week by the Edinburgh Evening News'
00:23 Patrick McPartlin.
00:24 We'll be speaking about Celtic's shot cup exit
00:27 at the hands of Kilmarnock.
00:29 We'll be looking at the rest of the Viaplay Cup results
00:31 in the draw.
00:33 And with Patrick here, we'll also be doing a preview
00:35 of Hib's European clash with Aston Villa
00:37 and the rest of the European matches this week.
00:40 So, Lewis, we'll have to start at Rugby Park
00:43 from Sunday there.
00:45 You saw the game, I mean,
00:47 just tell us your initial thoughts after the match,
00:49 how Celtic looked at incredibly the first cup tie
00:52 Brendan Rodgers has ever lost to Celtic manager.
00:55 - Yeah, yeah.
00:58 In all honesty, a lot of Celtic fans were saying afterwards
01:01 that I spoke to, they didn't feel it was a surprise.
01:04 They felt a result like this was coming
01:06 based on some of the kind of the football
01:09 that they've played so far since Rodgers returned
01:13 to the club.
01:14 I think got a real far cry from the type of attack
01:17 in football they were playing under Ange-Paul Stokoglou
01:19 last season.
01:20 And all credit to Kilmarnock again,
01:23 just outworked them on the day, really.
01:26 I think Celtic did manage to get into some decent areas,
01:29 but never really tested the keeper as much
01:32 as Rodgers would have expected them to.
01:34 Kiyoko had a couple of decent opportunities,
01:38 but barring that, Celtic were poor on the day.
01:42 I know he made a couple of changes to his lineup
01:46 as we were kind of expecting anyway,
01:48 enforced through injury.
01:50 But yeah, you still would have thought that Celtic
01:52 would have had enough to take care of Kilmarnock.
01:54 This is a Kilmarnock side who have improved vastly
01:58 from last season.
02:00 They proved that in the opening day of the season,
02:01 of course, against Rangers.
02:03 So yeah, a real shock result.
02:06 As I mentioned, some Celtic fans not overly surprised
02:11 given that they haven't been impressed
02:13 by what they've saw so far.
02:15 I think the impact of some of the new signings as well
02:17 hasn't been quite what maybe fans expected.
02:22 You look at Odin Thiago Holm, for example,
02:23 he's only 20 years of age and he's needing a bit of time
02:26 to kind of, you know, he's got time on his side
02:30 to kind of develop.
02:32 And Yang coming off the bench,
02:34 he's been the bright spark of late.
02:37 Of course, Gustav Lagerfeld just in the door as well.
02:40 Again, strong, aggressive, I liked what I saw of him.
02:44 But again, he's gonna need to take time
02:45 to form relationships,
02:47 particularly with Narocki at centre back.
02:50 So yeah, all in all, a disappointing day,
02:53 but fair play to Kalmarnik.
02:55 I think, you know, Derrick McInnes
02:58 has brought in some good signings over the summer
03:01 and they look a real force.
03:04 - It's funny you say that, Lewis,
03:05 'cause you and I spoke on this very show
03:06 not three weeks ago about how we felt Stuart Finlay
03:09 was a pretty good sign in, you know,
03:11 maybe not anything amazing,
03:13 but he's straight out the blocks.
03:15 He's quickly getting back to the levels he was
03:18 during his first spell at Kalmarnik by the looks of it.
03:20 Marley Watkins, obviously hugely effective
03:23 at the weekend.
03:24 We didn't maybe give Killie's recruitment enough praise
03:28 that it deserved at the time,
03:29 because now it's, I mean, it's early in the season,
03:31 but it's looking good, isn't it?
03:32 - Yeah, yeah.
03:33 It looks like a group of players
03:35 that have played together for a long time.
03:36 They seem to have gelled really quickly.
03:38 I think Lewis Mayo in particular at the back,
03:40 really impressed with him.
03:42 Obviously come through Rangers Academy
03:44 and had a really good loan spell there last season.
03:46 So yeah, he's recruited fairly well.
03:50 As you said, we didn't maybe give them
03:53 the praise that they deserved,
03:54 but they certainly pulled the hat out of,
03:59 pulled the rabbit out of the hat this month.
04:01 It's been mightfully impressive,
04:02 beating both Glasgow sides.
04:04 And, you know, early signs are positive.
04:06 I said on the back of the Rangers game,
04:09 probably an early, a really early statement to make,
04:12 but I couldn't see this team being involved
04:14 in any sort of relegation battle this year.
04:16 I really think Kalmarnik can kick on
04:18 and push for a top six place.
04:21 - Well, yeah, I mean,
04:22 they weren't tearing up trees in the League Cup.
04:24 That's for sure.
04:25 I mean, obviously they come out of the group,
04:28 they did the business wins away to Dunfermline,
04:31 Albion Rovers and in Athletic.
04:34 But then the kickoff of the season
04:35 with that win against Rangers,
04:37 they go to Tyne Castle,
04:38 get a very respectable point in a clean sheet.
04:41 And then now they've been in Celtic.
04:42 I mean, I don't, like you said,
04:44 no one was really,
04:46 I think we thought they were good enough
04:48 to avoid a relegation battle,
04:49 but now, and it's very early in the season, Patrick,
04:52 but people are talking about them
04:53 as contenders for third place.
04:55 Well, I mean, what do you make of that?
04:57 - I'm always a bit sort of reluctant
05:01 to sort of stick teams on for anything
05:05 at this point in the season.
05:06 I just think it's still-
05:09 - That's probably the Hibs background in you.
05:12 - Well, yeah, that probably does play a part,
05:15 but I just think, I mean, it is a cliche,
05:18 but it's such a long season and anything can happen.
05:22 Key players can get injured,
05:24 you can have freak results, whatever.
05:27 And I think the one thing you can be sure of
05:30 is that Derek Mackinnis is going to put together
05:34 a team that works really well as a unit.
05:37 I think we saw that at Aberdeen over many years
05:39 and also a tendency to pluck one or two players
05:43 from, if not obscurities, relative obscurity,
05:46 who might not be too sort of well-known
05:49 to your average sort of Scottish football fan,
05:51 but who seem to sort of have an impact
05:54 to sort of come in and hit the ground running.
05:56 And I think it's the nature of Scottish football,
05:59 especially the premiership, I think,
06:00 is that it's so unpredictable.
06:02 I mean, even beyond saying, you know,
06:05 Seltzer can re-injure to finish in the top two spots
06:07 and then everyone else can fight it out
06:09 for the remaining places.
06:10 But I mean, as we've seen with, you know,
06:14 Komaric's two results over, you know, both Glasgow teams,
06:16 it's never a hundred percent foolproof
06:21 in terms of predictions.
06:22 And I think if Komaric can continue the way they're going,
06:26 then yeah, you could say there's no reason
06:30 why they shouldn't be challenging for, you know,
06:32 top three, top four.
06:33 But at the same time, you know,
06:36 you've got Hearts who are still competing in Europe,
06:38 you've got Hibbs who are still competing in Europe,
06:40 Hearts and Hibbs have injuries.
06:42 I just think it's this early stage in the season,
06:46 it's a good start,
06:47 but it's whether or not they can sustain it.
06:49 And I think, you know, we'll find out more, I think,
06:52 in the next few weeks.
06:53 But certainly, I think it wouldn't be sort of a stretch
06:57 to say they're one definitely to keep an eye on this season,
07:00 certainly in the first half,
07:01 just to see how they perform, if they can keep this going.
07:05 - Well, yeah, I think more than anything, it's a statement.
07:07 I think that's probably what I would call it.
07:09 Like you said, there's far too long in the season to go.
07:11 Like you say, Hearts have also looked really sharp.
07:15 Hibbs, we'll see what comes of them.
07:16 Aberdeen maybe haven't looked great,
07:18 but they are dealing with a few injuries.
07:21 And there's also, you know,
07:23 gonna be a lot more recruitment coming in there
07:25 in the last days of the window from what we've heard.
07:28 But if they've done anything, I would say they are now,
07:31 you know, there was a bit of speculation
07:33 about who's gonna be the team
07:35 that gets into the top six,
07:37 assuming Celtic Rangers, Aberdeen Hearts,
07:40 and Hibbs are there, you know.
07:41 Will it be St. Mirren again?
07:42 They seemed to be the favorites.
07:44 Motherwell looked good towards the end of last season.
07:46 Could they do it?
07:47 And I think now, probably Kalmarnik are the team
07:50 most people are gonna back to get that slot
07:53 and potentially go further on.
07:55 But look, they've got Motherwell away in their next game.
07:59 That'll be an interesting test for them.
08:00 We'll see how they get on there,
08:01 if they can win that, get to the end of August,
08:05 and the way they're going,
08:07 you know, it's too long to determine, like we say,
08:11 but it's certainly early signs are good, that's for sure.
08:15 But looking at the rest of the cup,
08:17 not too many major surprises,
08:20 but the quarterfinal draw, heard it said,
08:23 Lewis, it's anybody's cup now.
08:25 Obviously Rangers are favorites, I think,
08:27 where everyone's okay acknowledging that.
08:29 But looking at the draw, just going through it real quick,
08:32 we've got Kalmarnik and Hearts,
08:33 Rangers at home to Livingston,
08:36 Aberdeen travel away to Ross County,
08:37 Hibs are at home to St. Marin.
08:39 I mean, the quarterfinals, Rangers, you'll back them,
08:42 given how they did in the league to get past Livingston,
08:44 but you never know, Livingston are capable of an upset,
08:47 that's for certain.
08:48 But all three of those ties, you know,
08:50 could realistically go any way.
08:53 The quarterfinals could look like anything,
08:55 and it really could be anyone's cup
08:57 now that Celtic are out.
09:00 - Yeah, it's really difficult to kind of nail someone down
09:04 as a finalist, as things stand, obviously,
09:08 all premiership sides as well.
09:10 I thought Ross County in particular
09:12 were given a real scare by Airdrie Onions.
09:15 I kind of fancied Airdrie an extra time to kick on
09:18 and win that game, so disappointed to see
09:20 that there isn't many representation from the lower leagues
09:24 at this stage of the competition.
09:27 But yeah, as you said, incredibly open.
09:29 I think Rangers will obviously be favourites
09:33 to go on and win the trophy now,
09:35 but you know, you wouldn't rule out any team
09:38 at this present moment, that's for sure.
09:41 I think obviously Rangers will be pleased
09:43 that it's another home tie for them against Livingston.
09:46 Livingston's record at Ibrox doesn't make for good reading
09:50 at all, so they'll be really pleased with that one.
09:53 I think Aberdeen will probably fancy their chances
09:55 up against Ross County, in all honesty up there.
09:59 I think I saw enough from Aberdeen last weekend
10:04 to suggest to me that this team will go on
10:09 a bit of a winning streak at some point.
10:13 I think they're good enough to do so.
10:15 So I'd fancy them to at least get to the semifinals.
10:18 And then, yeah, I mean, it's a kind of toss of a coin,
10:22 really, you'd expect Hibs and Harts will have a strong chance
10:26 but then Sitmarin proved going to Easter Road
10:29 a few weeks back there that they're more than capable
10:31 of springing out a wee surprise on their day as well.
10:34 So yeah, incredibly difficult to call.
10:36 - Something that I've been thinking about, Patrick,
10:41 so just Aberdeen are gonna be in group stage
10:44 European football, we know that.
10:46 Harts have a really, really strong chance of getting there.
10:49 Hibs are gonna need an upset to get there, we know that,
10:53 but they could be there.
10:54 If these clubs, any, all three, or even just one
10:57 of these clubs are in group stage European football,
11:00 I think before now, it's probably fair to say
11:03 the Viaplay Cup might have maybe just taken a wee bit
11:06 of a backseat because listen, it comes around every year.
11:09 Group stage European football certainly doesn't
11:11 for Scottish clubs.
11:12 So you'll probably see slightly rotated sides
11:17 coming out in these, but does that mentality change
11:20 now that Celtic out and there's a serious chance
11:23 for silverware now?
11:24 - I think it does to a certain extent.
11:28 I think if you asked any manager,
11:30 then the answer would be, I'll put out my strongest team
11:34 that I think is capable of winning any individual game.
11:38 I mean, take Hibs against Reith Rovers yesterday,
11:40 they made six changes to the team
11:43 from the one that started against Luzerne on Thursday night.
11:46 Not really changes where you'd look and say,
11:49 well, that's a downgrade,
11:50 or that's obviously a kid getting a chance,
11:53 bringing the likes of Christian Deutsch
11:55 and Adam Lafondra back at the starting lineup,
11:58 starting Jimmy Jago in midfield
12:02 and bringing Riley Harbottle into defence.
12:07 One of the centre-back signings he made during the summer,
12:10 he's had quite a lot of senior football in England
12:13 with Mansfield Town on loan from Nottingham Forest.
12:15 So it's not, I think when there are,
12:18 certainly in Hibs' case, when they have made rotations
12:20 for matches, it's not really been,
12:23 this is a second string team.
12:26 I think part of it will be about keeping fringe players,
12:29 bench players fit for potential European involvement,
12:32 but at the same time it's to do with,
12:34 you know, looking after the players,
12:36 managing returns from injury, managing players who,
12:40 you know, are maybe still trying to get back
12:41 to full fitness, players like Martin Boyle.
12:44 I mean, certainly from Hibs' point of view,
12:46 and I know from some of the other clubs involved,
12:48 the League Cup is a sort of realistic chance of silverware
12:51 and, you know, something that clubs should be targeting.
12:55 And I think even with Europe for,
13:00 I mean, we're not including Rangers in this perhaps,
13:01 because they do have that sort of slightly bigger squad
13:05 to choose from, but for the likes of Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen,
13:09 it's going to be a balancing act,
13:11 but I think all of them will be acutely aware that,
13:14 you know, there is a real chance to, you know,
13:16 at least make the final.
13:17 And if they can, I think if they can sort of marry
13:22 being able to put a strong team in these games,
13:25 as well as putting out the strongest 11 for European games,
13:28 then I think that's what we're going to see.
13:30 I think we'll see some rotation,
13:32 but maybe not quite as much as we've seen.
13:34 - Where do you stand on that, Lewis?
13:37 Do you think sides are going to, like Patrick said,
13:40 it's a realistic chance of silverware,
13:42 it becomes so much more realistic
13:44 when one of the two Glasgow clubs go out early on,
13:46 especially Celtic, given their dominance
13:49 in cup competitions in recent seasons.
13:52 Do you think that managers who might have planned
13:55 for rotation now are maybe going to slightly
13:59 change their mind on that?
14:01 - I think the mindset will shift by the semifinals,
14:04 in all honesty.
14:07 I think, yeah, Patrick makes a very valid point.
14:10 I think it's a notoriously a competition
14:12 that normally does take a bit of a backseat
14:15 because it is so early on in the season.
14:18 A lot of managers have been quite vocal
14:19 about the League Cup starting far too early in the year.
14:23 Michael Beales, obviously, had been raising the point
14:26 about clubs not being supported enough in Europe as well,
14:31 which Lee Johnson and Stephen Naismith
14:34 are both on board with as well.
14:36 I think you mentioned something about
14:39 how they'd have to play nine games,
14:41 whereas other clubs would play five.
14:43 You would say from that aspect,
14:48 and the likes of Kilmarnock and St. Mirren's
14:50 are a real advantage in the League Cup
14:52 because they obviously don't have
14:55 the European football to worry about.
14:57 But I think that the mindset will shift
15:01 if you get through the quarterfinals
15:03 and you're in a position where,
15:05 not only have you got a day out at Hamden
15:08 to look forward to,
15:09 I just feel like at that stage of the competition,
15:13 realistically, you're in it to win it.
15:16 As things stand, I think that won't change
15:23 for the quarterfinals in terms of their approach.
15:26 Ibs, Hearts, Rangers, I think it'll be a weakened,
15:30 well, I say a weakened, a second string team, if you like,
15:34 for those games.
15:35 But it'll be an interesting one
15:37 to see how they shape up.
15:39 - Well, European football,
15:42 that's gonna be the center of attention now
15:44 for the rest of the week.
15:46 We've got Rangers, Aberdeen, Hearts, and Ibs
15:49 all in action.
15:50 Aberdeen, they head to Sweden
15:52 for the first leg of their tie against BK Haken.
15:56 They know that they're guaranteed
15:58 group stage football regardless,
15:59 but there is a chance there.
16:01 I mean, no mugs, Haken, obviously the Swedish champions.
16:04 So it will be a tough tie,
16:05 but I think they'll see a realistic chance
16:08 of getting to the Europa groups.
16:10 Hearts have a very winnable tie against PAOK.
16:13 Rangers, PSV Eindhoven's gonna be hugely interesting,
16:16 but the tie that I'm really excited for
16:18 is Ibs against Aston Villa.
16:20 I think whenever a battle of Britain comes around,
16:24 as it's traditionally called in Europe,
16:26 there's always that little bit of sit up and pay attention.
16:29 I think up in Scotland,
16:30 we love getting the chance to go head to head
16:33 with an English team in competitive action,
16:36 just to dispel the myth that sort of kickstarted
16:40 this very show in the first place,
16:41 that English people look down at Scottish football.
16:45 So, I mean, Patrick,
16:47 how are you feeling ahead of the tie, first of all?
16:49 I mean, Aston Villa are obviously a team
16:51 full of world-class stars,
16:54 multi-million pound sign-ins,
16:57 you know, guys upwards of 50 million pounds.
17:00 Ibs are not that with the greatest respect in the world,
17:04 but do you think there's any chance they can trouble?
17:07 How crucial, I think, we'll have to say the first leg
17:10 at Easter Road's just gonna be hugely crucial, isn't it?
17:13 - Yeah, I think so.
17:15 I think that's, I think when you look at the tie as a whole,
17:19 you think that's, Ibs have a chance of possibly
17:23 getting something from the first leg.
17:25 I think that, I mean, aside from the fact
17:28 that Lee Johnson has, I think he would,
17:30 he'd probably say himself a pretty decent record
17:32 against English Premier League teams and managers.
17:35 I think he will absolutely relish the chance
17:37 to go toe-to-toe with UNI-Emery.
17:41 I think that you've also got the element,
17:46 one element coming into it is that Ibs
17:47 often raise their game for big games like this.
17:50 I mean, I've lost count of the number of times
17:54 in recent years where Ibs have maybe beaten Hearts
17:57 or they've beaten Celtic or Rangers
17:59 and they've had a good result in Europe.
18:01 And then they followed it up with a really kind of meek,
18:05 disappointing, but also somehow entirely predictable
18:09 like result in the league.
18:11 So I think that, I think Ibs have a lot going for them
18:16 in this case.
18:17 I think the fact that it's gonna be,
18:19 well, you'd imagine it would be a sellout.
18:21 It will be a packed Easter Road.
18:23 It will be under the lights.
18:26 It's a big game.
18:28 It's an unknown stadium for most of the Villa team,
18:32 one or two exceptions aside.
18:34 And I think, yeah, if they can sort of catch Villa
18:38 unawares, they can get a fast start, which they should,
18:42 you know, given the atmosphere and the fans backing,
18:44 then you just never know.
18:46 And as you rightly say, that's their best.
18:49 I think their best chance of hoping to get anything
18:51 from the tie is just having a good performance
18:55 and ideally for Ibs, a positive result from the first leg
18:58 to at the very least keep the tie alive going
19:01 into the return game at Villa Park,
19:03 or, you know, even something to hold onto.
19:06 I just think the sort of overriding thing here
19:10 is that Ibs are just so unpredictable,
19:12 especially this season.
19:14 And yeah, it sort of feels like anything could happen,
19:18 but it will be intriguing to see how it pans out,
19:23 certainly in the first leg.
19:25 - Lewis, we spoke about, you know,
19:28 Scottish teams rotating for the cup,
19:31 but I'd probably say Aston Villa might make up
19:33 a good bit of rotation for this game.
19:35 Does that give Ibs an extra chance,
19:39 given that even with them rotating,
19:42 it's still the players that they are able to rotate in?
19:46 Let's, you know, for example,
19:48 just say they decided not to play
19:51 Brazilian international David Luiz,
19:54 now you're bringing in Uri Tielemans.
19:57 It's the standard of rotation they're able to do
20:00 is quite incredible.
20:02 But I mean, what do you think, do you expect first of all,
20:05 that Villa will rotate for these games?
20:08 And do you think that will give Ibs a bit more of a chance?
20:11 - It's a difficult one because how often have Aston Villa
20:17 been in Europe over the years?
20:21 I think it's a huge opportunity for them
20:24 to really make a statement in Europe, you know,
20:28 potentially get to the group stages.
20:31 I don't think there'll be a huge deal of rotation,
20:35 in all honesty.
20:36 I know obviously the Premier League
20:37 is their bread and butter.
20:39 But as you said, I mean, even if he does decide
20:42 to rotate four or five different positions,
20:45 you're replacing quality with added quality.
20:48 You know, it's a really, really difficult one
20:52 to kind of weigh up.
20:53 I think obviously Ibs could be in for a long,
20:58 long 180 minutes over the course of the two legs.
21:02 But as Patrick mentioned, they need to stay in it
21:06 in the first leg.
21:07 I think having that at Easter Road,
21:10 you know, a full house behind them.
21:12 I think the fact John McGinn is in the Villa lineup
21:16 as well just kind of adds that wee bit of extra flair
21:19 to the stage.
21:22 So it's going to be a hugely exciting match
21:27 for both sets of fans,
21:28 given that it is a big European tie
21:32 and not just a pre-season friendly
21:34 or something, for example.
21:36 So there's so much at stake as well.
21:39 I think obviously Villa will be overwhelming favourites
21:42 to progress.
21:43 But, you know, as Patrick rightly said,
21:45 never say never with Ibs.
21:46 You just don't know what kind of Ibs team's
21:50 going to turn up on the night.
21:51 And as you rightly mentioned,
21:53 when it comes to European fixtures,
21:57 Ibs more often than not do raise their game.
21:59 We saw that in the first leg against Luzerne,
22:01 really impressive 3-1 victory.
22:04 When on paper, you know,
22:07 a tough opposition from Switzerland,
22:09 you'd be saying it's one of those ones
22:13 to kind of stay in it.
22:14 But again, showed on their day
22:17 that they're more than capable.
22:19 So that's what kind of Lee Johnson
22:20 will be reiterating to his players.
22:23 - Well, a returning player at an old club
22:26 sometimes doesn't get the best reception.
22:29 Patrick, I think we can all expect
22:32 what kind of reception John McGinn's going to get
22:33 when he walks out in Easter Road.
22:36 - Yeah, it's going to be overwhelmingly positive
22:40 for a variety of reasons.
22:42 Such a fan's favourite,
22:43 added to which helped them win the Scottish Cup,
22:46 helped them get promotion back to the premiership
22:49 after three seasons in the second tier,
22:52 and also scored, you know,
22:55 a vital goal or two in Europe.
22:57 So he really kind of did the lot with Ibs.
23:01 And obviously there's that family link
23:03 with his two brothers also playing for the club
23:05 after he left.
23:06 So it's, you know, it's very much,
23:09 there is still that connection,
23:10 there is still that link.
23:12 So I think there will be a sort of warm welcome for him,
23:15 but at the same time,
23:16 I think it's one of those things where you can't be,
23:19 you know, the players can't allow themselves
23:21 to be kind of overcome by the occasion,
23:25 given that he's still got a few teammates
23:29 in the Ibs team as well.
23:31 So yeah, it's nice for him to be able to come back.
23:35 And I'm not sure he would have ever imagined
23:37 he'd be back playing at Easter Road,
23:38 certainly not in this,
23:40 perhaps this competition or this capacity.
23:42 But I think, yeah, I think as soon as the whistle blows,
23:45 he will just become another opposition player.
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