What's the secret to retaining your start-up on the growth path? Outlook Business deputy editor, Kripa Mahalingam, finds out more from Capital First's V Vaidyanathan; Paytm's Vijay Shekhar Sharma and Hector Beverages' Neeraj Kakkar.
To know more about Outlook Business Leading Edge 2017 log onto leadingedge.outlookbusiness.com or follow #leadingedge2017 on Twitter and Facebook.
Music: www.bensound.com
#LeadingEdge2017 #Business #OutlookBusiness #OutlookMagazine #OutlookGroup
To know more about Outlook Business Leading Edge 2017 log onto leadingedge.outlookbusiness.com or follow #leadingedge2017 on Twitter and Facebook.
Music: www.bensound.com
#LeadingEdge2017 #Business #OutlookBusiness #OutlookMagazine #OutlookGroup
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NewsTranscript
00:00 (Music)
00:05 It's time for us to move on to our next panel discussion on staying hungry.
00:10 I'd request to join me on stage,
00:12 Outlook Business Deputy Editor,
00:15 Ms. Kripa Mahalingam to moderate the discussion.
00:19 And I'd also like to call upon stage,
00:21 PayTM founder, Mr. Vijay Shekhar Sharma,
00:24 who has no small manner changed the concept of digital payments forever.
00:30 I'd also like to call upon founder chairman,
00:32 Capital First, Mr. V. Vaidyanathan,
00:35 a name in the sphere of debt financing to MSMEs and Indian consumers.
00:42 Hector Beverages CEO, Mr. Neeraj Kakkar,
00:45 whose paperboard brand has revolutionized the industry.
00:50 And Quintillion Media founder, Mr. Raghav Bhel,
00:54 whose media foresight is only too well known.
00:57 I believe they've stepped out for a cup of coffee,
00:59 will be joining us soon.
01:01 Oh, there he is.
01:03 (upbeat music)
01:08 (upbeat music)
01:13 (upbeat music)
01:18 (upbeat music)
01:23 (upbeat music)
01:28 (upbeat music)
01:33 (upbeat music)
01:38 - Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
01:41 Staying hungry, the first time I heard that term
01:44 was during Steve Jobs' commencement address at Stanford in 2005.
01:49 For most of us, success, the pursuit of success is a destination.
01:55 For most entrepreneurs, it is just one of the first milestones.
02:00 I often wonder, how does one stay hungry
02:05 when you've been there and done that?
02:08 And that's why this next panel is an interesting one,
02:12 because all these super achievers have achieved great success,
02:16 but they're already working on their next big audacious dream.
02:20 So what keeps them hungry after achieving great success?
02:24 Let's find out.
02:26 Good evening, Vijay. Thank you so much for coming all the way from Delhi.
02:30 - Thank you. Thank you for having me here.
02:32 - So you've been, you've come back from the brink more than a couple of times.
02:37 You've set yourself now an audacious goal of saying
02:40 you will connect half a billion Indians by 2020.
02:45 What motivates you and what keeps you going?
02:48 - I think all of us, when we are part of CEO panel,
02:52 I truly love the conversation there, or are we entrepreneurs,
02:56 we sort of find our local maxima, and then we find out a purpose
03:00 which is sort of a long-term purpose and vision that we carry.
03:04 And I think the best way I can articulate that is that we don't know,
03:09 till the time we've reached the top of the mountain, we don't know what the view is.
03:13 And till the time we've seen that view, we won't put our aspirations.
03:17 So today, if you ask me, we are saying half a billion Indians to the mainstream of economy,
03:22 and tomorrow maybe it will change to something else.
03:25 And it all happens that when we reach a milestone,
03:29 that day, the beautiful view that changes
03:32 and the landscape becomes so wide and horizon becomes so far away again,
03:36 and that is what the chase becomes.
03:38 So I think it's a continuous journey like you just said it.
03:40 And what I love about my journey personally is that
03:44 even though we started from totally very different thing to today totally different journey,
03:49 I love the history of these companies when somebody says Nokia was a rubber-making company
03:55 and today it is making smartphones.
03:57 Or let's say somebody says, you know, GE was this,
04:00 and today GE is that.
04:02 So I personally believe that companies that are built like for hundred years
04:05 and built which are like timeless are the kind of personal passion for me.
04:09 In my lifetime, I won't be able to see my company being hundred years
04:12 because I don't think India's expected age is to go hundred years.
04:15 But I truly want to build a company which ages so well
04:18 and becomes an institution for long in our country.
04:21 You had a high-flying career at Co.
04:24 You put yourself through Wharton,
04:26 and then you decided to give it all up to become an entrepreneur.
04:29 What motivated you?
04:30 Why did you give up all that cushy corporate career?
04:33 I think broadly entrepreneurship is a pretty selfish career, right?
04:38 Like you, it's a, you enjoy every single bit of it.
04:42 It's tough for your family.
04:43 You don't have money.
04:44 You don't have time.
04:46 And you are doing something which only you understand and nobody else.
04:50 And so it's a pretty selfish thing to do.
04:54 And for us, I think somewhere like when you were young, right?
04:58 So there is always this feeling of I'll become a superhero.
05:02 I want to become Batman.
05:04 And I will go and I will hit six sixes in today's game.
05:08 And I'll take all the wickets.
05:10 And if there are thieves in the neighborhood, I'll catch them.
05:13 And I'll come first in class 8 in board exams in Haryana.
05:16 And the newspaper will publish the photo.
05:18 So you always want to have those superhero moments.
05:22 It kind of fades away as you grow up.
05:24 Like, you know, there is some part of you which becomes cynical.
05:28 You don't become a superhero.
05:29 It was all in the stories.
05:30 So now somewhere you find, I find myself in this place where I am doing this job.
05:36 If I am not there, then 30 years later, Aam Panna would become extinct.
05:40 So I am, I am the protector of these traditional Indian recipes.
05:46 I mean, no one else is telling me.
05:48 So I have defined it myself.
05:50 This is my self-defined goal.
05:52 My self-defined role.
05:53 So I go every evening.
05:55 I quietly pick up my cape and hang it behind my door.
05:58 Then I go home happily.
06:00 So people are actually paying me money for being a superhero, a Batman,
06:04 which I always wanted to become.
06:06 So then, you know, it keeps you motivated all the time.
06:10 It's so selfish.
06:12 It's so joyous.
06:13 So what's your motivation?
06:15 You left, you were the blue-eyed boy at ICICI Bank.
06:19 And then you left it all up to start on your own.
06:22 So you spoke about how some, you know, the glass ceilings,
06:26 professionals have to sometimes break when they start off on their own.
06:29 So what were your challenges when you started?
06:31 Okay.
06:34 In my case, I was on the board of ICICI Bank at the age of 38,
06:39 which I felt very high in life and I felt terrific.
06:44 And actually it also happened because between 2000 and 2010,
06:48 India just took off.
06:50 And it just happened to be that I happened to be at the right age,
06:53 right time, right place, and economy took off,
06:56 ICICI Bank took off, and I also took off in that good way.
07:01 Now, at 41, I started thinking, I was in the--
07:05 I had become the MD of ICICI, potential life insurance company.
07:10 And then I started thinking that what do I do with this now?
07:13 Because I had age by my side, I had seniority, I had experience,
07:17 but I had no capital.
07:19 But I said I want to start something because if I spend another 8 or 10 years or so,
07:24 then I'll probably be 53 or 54.
07:26 By that time, I'll start saying with children in college and, you know,
07:29 language will become very much different.
07:31 It will be like when to look for retirement and stuff like that.
07:34 I really didn't want to walk that path.
07:36 So then I said, okay, how to start?
07:38 So the first idea that I had in my mind was that let me look for a private equity firm,
07:43 ask them for a thousand crores of equity,
07:47 and I said for whatever reason benchmark, I put a benchmark of 10% on myself.
07:51 I said I'll tell a firm, give me 10%.
07:53 And we'll start a private equity--a non-banking finance company in an area of financing customers
08:02 where no other--where banks don't finance.
08:04 And then I saw all the stories around of price to book of 3 times, 4 times, 5 times
08:07 and all that stuff.
08:08 I said 1,000 will become 5,000 crores.
08:09 I'll have 10% of it.
08:10 I started dreaming all these things, it's all fantasy.
08:12 But I just started building these castles in the air.
08:16 But when the castles were not--but I couldn't talk to anyone about it
08:19 because at senior positions in banks, etc., it's a club.
08:23 So you talk to one person, the whole system knows about it.
08:26 So then I came across one company which was--where the share price of the company
08:30 had come down from about 1100 rupees to 100 rupees or 92 rupees
08:34 within 2 years because of global financial crisis.
08:36 Then I thought that if I acquire 10% of this company,
08:39 it is the same thing as starting Blue--you know, Greenfield with a private equity firm.
08:44 Then I came up with the idea saying that--then thought a little about it.
08:47 I didn't really do too much research on it.
08:49 I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing because if I had done a lot of research,
08:52 probably I would not have taken it.
08:54 But if--I don't know.
08:55 But it just so happened I walked the path.
08:58 Then of course, like many people will tell you, it's very, very tough
09:03 because when you leave, you think everything works out.
09:09 When you walk there, you figure out that QIP doesn't happen or it fails.
09:14 You know, you don't get debt.
09:16 You don't get equity.
09:18 You're just struggling.
09:20 The problem with some of these jobs is that you really--you know,
09:24 everybody tells each other that you should be--have friends.
09:27 You should talk to people.
09:28 You should be truthful to the market.
09:30 All that is all sometimes rubbish actually because really you tell someone you're in trouble
09:37 and in the financial services world, you're dead sure deep in trouble after that.
09:42 So how do you tell anyone really you're in--you can't even tell your closest friend they're in trouble.
09:48 So you have to live and get out of it.
09:51 So we'll talk about it.
09:54 So Vijay, tell me what's the craziest thing you've--
09:56 I'm getting into this world, by the way.
09:58 You should be afraid.
10:00 Thank you for the pro tip much in advance before I needed it.
10:05 So what is the craziest thing you've done to get a breakthrough in business?
10:09 Oh, okay.
10:10 So I think I never had a sort of right of being in the business.
10:17 I come from a family of people who are teachers.
10:21 My people are--folks are teachers and education, et cetera, is a kind of family
10:27 and I'm a black sheep in a way where you can say that business is what I wanted to do.
10:32 Now, in the business, the problem is that when you don't have a mentor
10:35 and especially I'm talking about--I started this company in 2001.
10:39 So everybody who thinks that Paytm started four years back should know this,
10:43 that it is started in 2001.
10:45 It's 16-year-old in this year.
10:47 So you should know this, that this is not the company which is four-year-old.
10:52 And so the craziest thing that happened to me was that in 2001,
10:56 this is the heydays of internet, if you will.
10:58 If you remember, the dot-com was like getting into the peak time.
11:02 And I had sold a company, by the way, so I had some couple of lakhs rupees.
11:06 Actually, to be precise about it, I had 2 lakhs rupees left in the bank
11:09 and everything else was settled any which ways.
11:11 So I started this company in 2001 and then 9/11 happened.
11:16 Now, when 9/11 happened, it means that all sorts of dreams of VC fundings
11:21 and business plans that you could get funded, everything was out of the window.
11:25 Now, I think the choice that in front of me was that I could take a very optimum job
11:31 and job is what I sort of decided that I will not go back.
11:35 So I closed the doors of sort of sneak or exit doors
11:40 and I said this is the only way that we will go.
11:42 Now that stands for that I did not have a cash flow,
11:45 I did not have a business model which was the plan that I was doing.
11:49 But I finally got telecom operators for a kind in 2001, 2002.
11:53 If you remember, the telecom was coming up in this country,
11:56 Bharti Cellular and Hutchins and SR, whatever the name that those which was.
12:00 So I got customers in telcos, except the problem was the telcos
12:05 were still building up their business models and scales.
12:08 So their cash flow and the vendor payment systems were not so that I did not have cash flow.
12:14 So as a college student who has been in engineering college,
12:19 I learnt the importance of cash flow versus profit.
12:22 You are profitable but I don't have a cash.
12:24 Now the crazy thing that I ended up doing was that to generate the cash flow,
12:29 I would go and meet people and be available for one day's internet lecture
12:35 and sometime even go meet a journalist whose internet is not working,
12:39 setting up email and receiving 500 rupees as a job for that
12:43 and even sometimes where I did not have money,
12:47 I walked 14 kilometers from Priya's cinema to Kashmir Gate where I used to live
12:51 just because the 15 rupees that I had, I had a choice to take a bus or the next day's meal.
12:56 So I think these kind of things today in hindsight look like,
13:00 "Oh wow, what a thing!"
13:02 But I can tell you when you are going through them,
13:04 that is a time when the decision making happens.
13:06 The truest decision is when you are holding on when there is not an option out there
13:10 and you are still belonging to the decision that you have taken on.
13:14 And the best thing I remember was I used to say,
13:17 "Yes, I am available for a day for 5000 rupees."
13:20 I am talking on internet obviously.
13:22 What is the craziest thing you have done?
13:25 So this was…
13:26 So Kanji is this drink, traditional Indian drink out of North India.
13:31 So when I was growing up, my landlord used to make it,
13:36 Mati used to make it.
13:37 That drink went out of life.
13:39 That drink is almost extinct now.
13:41 Nobody makes it.
13:42 So that's why I say I am a Batman.
13:44 I protect these drinks.
13:46 Drinks, survivors.
13:47 So the Kanji is made out of purple carrot.
13:50 Now purple carrots have disappeared.
13:52 So now it's the world of orange carrots.
13:54 These are Dutch carrots which have taken over.
13:56 So we searched around India.
13:58 We were not able to find purple carrots.
14:00 People are saying mix orange with some turmeric.
14:03 So which is what Varun, there is thing that authenticity,
14:07 if you want to offer without authenticity, things don't work.
14:11 So I searched around.
14:12 There are no purple carrots in India.
14:14 Very small crop production.
14:16 Then I…
14:17 So we started searching around the world.
14:19 We finally got to know that Turkey produces purple carrots.
14:22 So I landed in very small airport in southern Turkey called Adana.
14:26 So it's a very small airport there.
14:28 I landed there.
14:29 And there, then I went with a local contact and saw this huge thing,
14:33 like you know, huge fields of purple carrots.
14:35 Like I was very, very happy.
14:36 Like, wow.
14:37 So this is the moment.
14:39 And then I actually bought this extra luggage there,
14:43 a big one, and then I filled 25 kilos of purple carrots in it.
14:47 So like, and then I was bringing it back to India.
14:50 And these customs guys in Delhi, like they caught me.
14:53 They said, "Livestock."
14:54 So you can't bring this because they are like, you know, scared.
14:58 You can't take all that stuff.
14:59 So I think I was extremely disappointed.
15:01 Like I almost felt like crying on that Delhi airport,
15:04 that they took away my carrots.
15:06 So how will I make kanji?
15:09 So then finally it went on.
15:12 Then we said, "No, we don't have carrots."
15:15 Then we got the seeds from Turkey.
15:18 And this is all two years back.
15:20 And then we sowed the crop in three places, Palanpur, Ujjain, and Ooty.
15:25 We actually failed 13 times.
15:27 So the 13 crop failures we had.
15:29 Then finally Ooty, we succeeded last year.
15:31 Then we got the purple carrots.
15:33 Then we made that drink this year.
15:35 But there was some fermentation, etc.
15:37 So that thing didn't work out.
15:40 So hopefully next year, it's been going on for four and a half years.
15:44 This quest of making a drink, which like, I don't think so.
15:47 Everyone makes fun of me that it won't sell.
15:50 Like not a lot of people know about this drink actually.
15:55 So I think that the whole quest of making this drink is probably the craziest thing I am in the midst of right now.
16:01 So I don't know when it will end, but it's going on.
16:04 Hopefully very soon.
16:05 Very cool.
16:06 I just want to tell you one more thing about Neeraj.
16:09 I saw him on LA airport.
16:11 And I was like, "Hi, hi."
16:14 And I said, "How come you are in LA?"
16:16 Then he is telling me that he is sourcing pomegranates in LA.
16:20 And I said, "Oh, really?"
16:22 And not LA, I mean, it was organic farming in California.
16:25 And then I said, "Why? I thought that there are enough in India."
16:29 Then he is telling me, "The problem is the pomegranate drink has a color.
16:32 And these organic pomegranates have a color and taste.
16:36 Indians have only probably the taste."
16:38 So I have to build and infuse that.
16:41 And I just want to tell you, I mean, Indigo, I just have multiple Anard drinks and O2 what you do, my friend.
16:46 I just want to tell you that.
16:48 So I am going to ask you, are you going to top the system and tell me what's the craziest thing you have done?
16:54 I have to think.
16:56 Okay.
16:58 At one point of time, we were desperately looking for private equity.
17:04 And I had a habit when flying, I used to just look left and look right.
17:10 And I would figure out if I am lucky today or not.
17:13 If I figure out the guy says, you know, I am so and so Tata Motors and I am pretty senior here or whatever.
17:19 If he tells me I am Tata Steel or something, I immediately switched off.
17:23 I have nothing to do with Tata Motors, nothing to do with Tata Steel.
17:25 So what am I going to do with this conversation?
17:27 But if he says I am working with a private equity firm and no matter big or small,
17:31 I sit up, exchange a card, then initiate a conversation,
17:35 then hope and pray that this guy might just be interested in my story.
17:40 And every time believe whether or not even the 10th pitch or the 15th pitch or 20th pitch,
17:45 go through the conversation as if it's going to work.
17:48 Then once Baring's Rahul Basin, he'll probably remember the story.
17:56 I don't know if you know him.
17:58 He came to our office and he spent some time with us and said, you know,
18:03 very interested in the story, it's a lovely story, working financing the underbanked with the benefit of technology.
18:09 Looks like a brilliant story. I want to back it.
18:12 I felt very happy. So I said, when do we meet again?
18:15 He said, very soon, a couple of months.
18:17 Now for them, couple of months is couple of months.
18:21 But someone who's dying for oxygen, couple of months looks like, you know,
18:25 eternity is like how sometimes people say that, you know,
18:29 one second for God is a million years for man.
18:33 So you really feel like that. He says, we'll meet in two months.
18:36 I said, can I meet tomorrow? But if I say I want to meet tomorrow, you feel very desperate.
18:40 You know, the guy will not back you for sure after that.
18:43 He says, something is seriously wrong with you. So you can't say that also.
18:46 Then I'm sitting hard. Then one day after a week,
18:50 then I figured out that no one is coming up with any offer.
18:53 He's not called back. I'm not called back.
18:55 I was talking to two, three other private equity guys.
18:57 Nobody's really calling back. So I know it's not heading right.
19:01 Then one morning around four o'clock, I woke up and I said, OK, let me catch a flight to Delhi.
19:06 So I called my secretary and I told her, can you book a flight?
19:08 I called early in the morning on 4.30. She said, you have no appointments there.
19:12 I said, OK, just book it. I don't know what to do. Just book me.
19:16 So, but I can't tell after going there, I can't tell him I'm desperate.
19:19 So I text him around, I text him around 11 o'clock and say, OK, Rahul, are you in Delhi?
19:26 Can we meet? So he says, yeah, you know, but right now I'm in a conference.
19:32 So I said, OK. So I text him up for about two hours again. I said, Rahul, are you free? Can we meet?
19:37 So he says, again, I'm a conference. I'm going to be late today.
19:40 So a whole day I did no work, nothing. I've gone flown by the morning flight, seven o'clock,
19:45 landed at ten o'clock, did no work all day. I know to myself I've done zero work.
19:49 And around five o'clock, no appointments, no meetings, just wasted my day.
19:53 And I'm catching the flight back. And I entered the airport and I took a last chance at him,
19:58 saying that, Rahul, are you here? And he said, look, I can meet at seven o'clock.
20:03 By this time, I had already checked in and I had gone through security and I was about to board the aircraft.
20:10 I said, damn, he said yes. He said three hours from now, I had not had lunch.
20:14 So I immediately tore my boarding card. I got so happy, got an appointment and not the money.
20:18 So I tore it, threw it, rashed back all the way and I come back to security and I said, OK, I want to go.
20:23 He said, where's your boarding card? No boarding card. Because I tore it in happiness for the appointment.
20:29 So I said, I pleaded to him, saying, let me in. And he said, no, you can't go back without a boarding card.
20:34 Then I pleaded to some security guys, somehow I managed my way and I went back.
20:39 Then at seven o'clock, I had not had lunch the whole day out of maybe dejection or something.
20:44 Seven o'clock, he met me with some sandwiches and then I went over the full story again.
20:48 He's sitting in Gurgaon, probably tell you the story. And then it went on.
20:52 Finally, it still didn't work. But I can just tell you that, I mean, that particular deal didn't work.
20:58 But yeah, I mean, it's just like sometimes just get desperate, can't tell the guy you're desperate.
21:04 I don't know how many guys will own up to this, but it's true.
21:12 By the way, I also wanted a meeting with an investor in New York, just the same way.
21:17 And the problem was, it was a follow up meeting, which first meeting had gone very good.
21:22 So now the problem was that I can't say that I want a meeting and I'm so and so.
21:27 So the trick nearly this way was picked was that, OK, so I'm coming on 7th October to New York.
21:33 Can we meet on 7th or 8th? I sent an email. I think that is a trick that a lot of people should.
21:40 Yeah, that's a good trick, by the way. Let me tell you something similar to this.
21:43 Once I talked to one particular person whom I wanted to meet and he said, look,
21:47 I'm flying from Delhi by the three o'clock flight from Delhi back to Bombay.
21:52 So I said, OK, now how do I catch the guy? I need two hours on the flight.
21:55 It would be fantastic if I got the guy, but I have no work there.
21:58 So and this discussion happened in the morning.
22:00 So I took the flight from here on maybe around 11 o'clock or so, or maybe 12.
22:05 I landed there at two o'clock, just moved from the domestic, this airport, that airport,
22:10 and then flew back with that person just on the flight.
22:13 So just to be with the person for two hours, I have flown this way and I'm flying back.
22:17 And you can't tell anyone you're doing this because you tell the guy, you're pretty desperate.
22:21 Right. So. But you ask him for an appointment. He doesn't have time for you.
22:26 So the only way to be with him is to fly with him. So you say, so what do you.
22:31 Fortunately, he didn't ask me what I'm in Delhi for. It would have been pretty embarrassing.
22:35 As desperate, not your desperate. Desperate, but not your desperate.
22:40 At least the airlines made money, right? All your money.
22:44 So who's your superhero, Neeraj? You're the superhero, but who's your superhero?
22:49 I think my superhero is Narayan Murthy, like by a distance.
22:53 And, you know, so almost everything. So see, for, and I believe Vijay would agree,
23:00 like, you know, in 1991, like I was growing up in this small town, very small place.
23:06 See, the dream when you were growing up before 1991 was,
23:10 that you want to become an SDO in the electricity board.
23:13 Like, you know, so you wanted to do that. So that is the goal of your lifetime.
23:19 Like every single class you do exams, do all this, that you want to become an SDO in the electricity board.
23:25 You should have a jeep. Like, a jeep was the ultimate thing, that you can take it and roam around.
23:31 So I think when you were growing up in that small town, there was no way to have dreams.
23:37 Like there is no way to think that we can do anything. All the other, like you can't,
23:41 you cannot relate to Tata and Birla, like because they were always rich.
23:45 So, so, so you, you, Narayan Murthy, when he came into my life, at least,
23:54 like so many people who were growing up in this small middle class India, he gave you hope.
24:00 He gave you hope for the first time to say, "Ki sarkari nukhri nahi leni hai."
24:04 That was a big thing for a small town guy to say, "Ki sarkari nukhri nahi chahiye, private job karenge."
24:10 And, and that I think, I think he is a superhero. He impacted, I think, far more than what we give him credit for.
24:18 And Vijay, for you, Jack Ma, how does it feel to have someone who is more hungrier than you on your side?
24:25 And what's, and he told you to build a company that would connect half a billion people
24:29 and you're doing that with Payments Bank. What's his next piece of advice for you?
24:33 Well, I think, so first of all, superhero, because I want to talk about my superhero
24:39 and that superhero is none other than Steve Jobs. I personally call him Vishnu Avatar of technology industry.
24:44 I think what he had done with smartphones, nobody took an audacious goal of converting so much of software
24:51 into so much, so small device. And as we all know, the world has changed too.
24:55 I mean, the world, humanity. And true is that the Think Different campaign,
25:00 few move human race forward. So, the checkbox is, I think, the aspiration truly somewhere in life.
25:07 I can say that I moved human race forward, even if it is for my country, if it is that subset of our people.
25:13 Now, talking about Jack Ma, so I want to tell all of you in this room,
25:19 Chinese are far aggressive than any other breed that I've ever met.
25:23 I mean, I probably have worked with Japanese, I've worked with Chinese and I've worked with Americans
25:28 and Americans are known to be like a grand thinkers and the world domination in business economy.
25:34 I mean, they are the Britishers of the business world, if you will.
25:37 And, but Chinese are extraordinary. So, for example, like there was a time in a board meeting,
25:44 I showed that, look, this is the market share we have, this is what we have.
25:48 Is it the time for us to start bothering our profitability? I mean, a very natural case,
25:53 when you sort of have 78% RBI announced market share, it's fair to ask for that, is it this or not?
26:01 And he thinks for a while and he says, how many users do you have?
26:04 And that time we had couple of hundred plus few users. And he said, but we discussed about 500 million, right?
26:10 Yeah, that's right. So, I think you have to take a bet on the market that you will build the market.
26:16 Don't wait for somebody else to even build the market. Take a bet, build on the market.
26:20 And literally, I mean, I had spent about 200 odd million by that time. I mean, 210 million, I still remember.
26:26 The point he says was, here is half a billion dollars. Let's take a bet in this country that this is what is going to happen.
26:31 And let's do it even before anybody bothers about this as a market.
26:34 I think some people bothered about two days back. I know this, but at the same time,
26:38 yeah, half a billion is already been spent, another couple of hundred million spent in this year. Let's see.
26:44 So, what I learned from him was that you don't wait for market to happen.
26:50 In many categories, you make market happen. That is what it is.
26:55 Who is your inspiration and who do you look up to or who do you want to inspire?
27:02 People asking for appointments. Suggestion, man.
27:07 No, actually, I actually get greatly inspired by people of many, many walks of life, actually.
27:17 Anybody who is either held up to a certain adversity and come out of it.
27:25 Sometimes mythological characters greatly inspire me.
27:29 The one and only character who greatly inspires me in the whole of Mahabharata is a character called Karna,
27:34 whom somebody says he has promised that he will give his Kavach also during prayer.
27:40 And Krishna comes as a disguise. I don't know why Krishna's character is like that.
27:44 But he does come there and does ask for the Kavach and he gives it to him.
27:48 So, sometimes, you know, for me, inspiration is really not business, business.
27:54 Sometimes it just comes to me from so many sources.
27:57 And I get greatly inspired by certain sportsmen, for example, who, you know, who just hold their own and come out of adversity.
28:07 Marvan Atapurthu has a story, an extraordinary story.
28:09 I read somewhere that, I thought it's probably the most inspirational story which I read.
28:14 Harsha Bhogle has quoted the story in some interview, saying that, look, the first time he gets to play, he scored zero and zero.
28:21 Then he gets to play second innings, he scores a zero and a zero again.
28:26 And he's dropped from the team. Then he's off for two years.
28:30 He scores a lot of runs in the cricket and he comes back to play the game.
28:34 Again, he scores a zero.
28:35 You know, for a person who's just out and, you know, just waiting to make a mark, you come back after two years and still score a zero.
28:42 It can be terrifying.
28:44 You know, you're dead and cooked when you really know you have the talent.
28:47 And then he scores six zeros or one.
28:52 And then finally, after six years, he gets a chance.
28:55 And then he blew the world away with his performances.
28:58 So, when I read that story, I was greatly inspired.
29:00 So, sometimes I feel that, or I've felt often sometimes that I may have the talent, I may have the capability, I just don't have the funding.
29:09 It can be very desperate.
29:11 But, you know, you just say that you just have to believe and keep saying it'll happen, it'll happen, it'll happen.
29:17 I just believe a lot in being positive.
29:20 I'm not exaggerating this.
29:22 Sometimes when an RBI regulation comes and says that, you know, you can't do this anymore, you can't book this up front, you've got to do this.
29:29 Or, you know, or you've got to recognize your NPA now, you're not postponing for later, whatever.
29:35 Whenever these norms come, I have practiced myself to say it's good.
29:39 So, if something comes and the government puts up conditions, say it's good.
29:42 Because I think there is a lot of power in thinking positive, actually.
29:48 It's not just motivation talk.
29:50 I think there's a lot in it, actually.
29:52 There's some secret power in it.
29:54 So, all of you are clearly driven and, you know, very passionate entrepreneurs.
29:59 How do you then transfer this energy to your team?
30:02 How do you keep them motivated and aligned to, you know…
30:08 Yeah, so, I think it's good to surround yourself with the right set of people.
30:12 And then, like, you know, when you're hiring, I think that's a bigger thing.
30:15 So, one of the key factors which work for us, essentially, we're a six-day working company.
30:20 So, a lot of people, and I'm not saying people in my ex-company were not working hard,
30:24 like we used to be working very hard.
30:26 But when they come here, so, this question half the people back off.
30:30 "No, no, no, six days a week nahi, humaara nokhni nahi chalega."
30:33 Now, you will see in…
30:36 So, in some sense, it's like 1930 Mahatma Gandhi trying to take a dandi march, you know.
30:41 It's that kind of a job.
30:43 Odds are against you.
30:44 It's not like, you know, Coke, Pepsi wale apne chiller mein maal nahi rakhne dene hain.
30:48 Like, and then you are…
30:58 And then you don't want a great, like, thinker, analyst type person to join you, like, you know.
31:04 Because those are the people who didn't join probably Mahatma Gandhi in that dandi march.
31:08 Because they think ki iska koi odds nahi hai, iska kuch hone wala nahi hai.
31:12 And so, you want people who believe in you.
31:15 Ab uss time, like, he was surrounded by best people, wo work-life balance ke baare mein soch rahe hain,
31:19 toh wo dandi march ho gaya hota.
31:21 Ki aaj Saturday, aaj nahi jaayenge.
31:23 So, so, so you…
31:26 So, in this kind of a job, when you are undertaking a mission, which is like a way less chance of success,
31:31 where you, you, you, you know, belief is a bigger thing.
31:35 I think you need people around you who are like that.
31:38 And then you, I think when you are hiring them in select…
31:40 I think there, there has to be lot of filters.
31:42 And you have to put… you have to tell them the right, you know, reality of what's happening on this thing.
31:47 Lot of people see the Vijay Shekhar Sharma ka, the valuation and they come for the startup story.
31:53 But I think the work behind that is not, you know, I think that's the one which you have to show at the time of hiring.
31:59 And I think then you get the right set of people around you.
32:02 I'll extend it actually by saying that my theory and experience has been that
32:06 those who've been there, done that, won't do it again.
32:10 I think that's a very straightforward.
32:12 I think my learning is you only need to have ordinary people, deliberately ordinary people,
32:17 either out of the industry people or the juniors who have not got the chance to do it,
32:21 classic underdogs that they are yet to prove their mark.
32:25 And then when you have these ordinary people and they get this extraordinary opportunity,
32:29 you actually tell them that this ordinary will make up to extraordinary.
32:32 Let's put that extra effort into it. And that actually works.
32:35 And I think one of the learning that I have done is that set a goal which is literally a moonshot.
32:40 I mean the journey itself will be pride that, oh, we were on the journey, we wanted to change the world,
32:45 we wanted to do this. It is so incredible that the journey will be the reward.
32:49 And then surprise, surprise, you actually achieve it.
32:51 And then people say, oh, wow, we are the winners and we take it forward.
32:54 For example, like in my company, we've just kept it very clear, very clean, very clear.
32:59 We don't come to work, we come to write history book chapters.
33:02 And let's make sure that we are writing one and we are part of one.
33:05 And that is what the opportunity is. Everything else, other people have other things to do.
33:09 Let's be on the mission and purpose. And that's exactly what I believe which Neeraj said that
33:13 people polarize on the purpose. People don't come to work for money and people don't come to work for the
33:18 every other thing that we talk about which is the perk. Yes, these are sort of hygiene.
33:22 This is like an oxygen. But the rest of the fun and the excitement that is,
33:26 is what the excitement that you build. I think… And then it just worked.
33:29 And one of the… another learning and I think in the last two years of startup world,
33:33 we got lot of consultants, bankers and all sorts of people in the decision-making tree.
33:38 One of the filter that works in startup is how fast people take decision.
33:42 And this is the… the seniority is all about decision-making, not about correct decision-making,
33:47 not about correct decision-making, optimum decision-making.
33:50 The number of variables you need to take decisions define who you are.
33:54 The lesser the variable you need and the decision you come faster with, you're a great leader.
33:58 The more the decision… variables you need, you're a great manager.
34:01 And you just keep taking variables and inputs and you don't make a decision, you know who you are.
34:07 You know… Vijay has of course told people that he's just going to hypnotize people,
34:12 they're going to write record books, come join. Okay Vijay, you master hypnotism.
34:18 But the fact is that… See, I'll tell you, at least in the initial time when we were building the team, right?
34:27 Definitely I knew that our company had a very high NPA of about 5.5%.
34:33 I knew our net worth was only 690 crores and I knew we had a share of troubles.
34:39 But really, if you say to a person who's joining you, we got to give that person hope
34:46 that truly we are going to build something great here.
34:49 If you tell the person starting, "Yeah, yeah, we got high NPA, got stuff etc."
34:53 Nobody's going to back us, nobody's going to give us money, who's going to join you? You're dead.
34:57 So you're dead after that, it's a secular problem anyway.
34:59 So, it's again comes back to believing and talking positive.
35:04 I told you there is some magic in it.
35:06 And I… you know, there's a colleague of mine who's probably sitting here,
35:10 a person called Apul Nair who later became the executive director in the firm.
35:14 I had one meeting with him, a fabulous person and he's delivered phenomenal for the company
35:19 over the last many years. And I met him in one meeting.
35:23 You know, I have a habit of taking a piece of paper and scribbling every time whenever I talk
35:27 and that's how I think. And we started scribbling, there's… oh, okay, it's a 90 crore company now.
35:32 90,000, 2,000, 5,000, 8,000, 10,000, we scribble like this.
35:36 Then we said, "Profits, oh, loss, 5 crore, 20 crore, 100 crore, 100 crore, 500 crore."
35:40 So we scribble, right? So we scribble like this.
35:43 Other person starts scratching his head, "Oh man, it's going to cost a lot of money."
35:46 So he starts thinking, what joy, excitement, the people start feeling,
35:50 "Apul, I can see you there," right? So that's how you do it.
35:53 Then there's another gentleman, Pradeep Natarajan sitting here, again similar conversation.
35:57 One call, literally one, you know, comes to a meeting, one call, straight away,
36:03 "Okay, you're… you come on, join in tomorrow morning, here's the appointment letter fixed."
36:07 So the other person also sees that if you can move really this fast,
36:11 then you must be really good, right? Then this is the way you'll take decisions at work,
36:14 this is the way the company will move. People start extrapolating your behavior
36:19 to the conversation and then they join. But the one thing I find is that
36:24 when we say motivate people, we… how do we motivate people?
36:29 Now, I do think that when we tell them that, "Look, I'm on a discovery journey,
36:35 we're discovering a blue ocean, but if we crack this blue ocean,
36:39 then nobody else would have cracked it and then we are into some… creating something phenomenal,"
36:43 it is tremendously motivating. If someone talked to me that language when I was 32 or 31 or 20 or 9, 21,
36:49 I'd find it tremendously motivating, right? It's more motivating than someone who tells you,
36:54 "Come and join this oil industry, I'll pay you, you know, maybe $200,000 a year,
36:59 but your job is to sit here and write these books and drill some machines and nobody knows
37:03 and you know, oil spill will happen." I don't think it's motivating at all.
37:06 We can create a telecom operator also after that.
37:09 And India… the good thing about India is that India by itself is extraordinarily motivating
37:16 and the space is very motivating, the environment is motivating, right?
37:20 Of course, I must say that 2010 to 2014 of India was terrible and I don't know,
37:25 it's like a bad dream that went away, not for us, I think it's anyway…
37:29 Indian economy was sinking at that point of time. So, barring a brief phase of India,
37:33 generally speaking, India has been a very motivating place.
37:36 So, the system motivates and finally, if we… if we are also part of the joy,
37:44 show the way we talk, the way we behave, the way we walk and the way we show the picture,
37:48 all that is motivation. And it's not textbooks, you know, HR, all these things are all
37:55 probably there for XLRIs and everything, I don't think.
38:01 So, one thing you do to stay hungry, what would that be? One thing.
38:06 You do to stay hungry.
38:07 To stay hungry? Basically, I think that really we haven't… we… the potential is so large
38:20 in at least the business that we do, it's really so large that I'm not exaggerating,
38:26 we have just… we're pretty much at the start. So, the fact that there is so much more to go and…
38:33 If there's one thing, one thing that you do.
38:35 One thing to?
38:36 Yeah. To stay hungry.
38:37 Keep us hungry. Yeah, I mean, I just say that, you know, for example, if you say,
38:41 we got to build a one lakh crore company over the next fifteen years and the opportunity is there
38:48 and we can do it, these things tremendously motivate. Because we are in a space which is…
38:54 is just green and available to be taken.
38:58 What is the one thing that you do?
39:00 It's… it's a change with the Mesh Laws hierarchy. One point in time, I was hungry at the bottom.
39:07 So, I was staying hungry and then I move up and I get food and I think it is reaching a stage where
39:14 the impact that you can create and what you can give back and the legacy that you can create
39:19 and the opportunity that is to do that.
39:23 I think I remind myself that there is like nothing more I enjoy than doing what I am doing right now.
39:28 Actually, there is nothing… nothing more.
39:30 Like, when I am at work, it's better than any other place in the world and that's where I want to be.
39:36 On the one… On that wonderful note, I'd like to thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
39:44 I hope you enjoyed the session as much as we did.
39:46 Thank you for your time. Thank you, Vaidehi. Thank you, Vijay.
39:49 Thank you, Neeraj, for coming down today. Thank you so much.
39:52 [Music]