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00:00 Well, for more, I'm joined on the set by our Europe editor, Armin Georgian.
00:03 Hello to you, Armin.
00:04 We saw in that report a series of spats between Macron and Maloney.
00:08 Is this sort of like hopefully them pushing a reset button?
00:11 That that seems to be the idea.
00:14 I mean, this treaty that they're trying to revive,
00:16 it was mentioned briefly in that report.
00:18 It's called the Kirinale Treaty, which was signed in 2021.
00:22 And that was actually the fruit of three years of preparation
00:26 between the French and Italian governments
00:28 aimed at a much more dense kind of structure to the whole Italian
00:32 French relationship, bringing things up to a kind of not exactly
00:37 the same level of alliance that France has with Germany,
00:40 but something a little bit closer to that.
00:43 But of course, that was all a different period in history
00:46 when President Macron had close relationships with Italian leaders.
00:52 That hasn't been the case since Giorgio Maloney came to power.
00:56 And it's not just a question of substance, but very much of of tone as well.
01:02 A perception that's been quite persistent in Rome
01:05 that France essentially has has seen Italy as a sort of junior partner,
01:10 that when it comes to doing the really big, important things in Europe,
01:13 France will do those things with Germany and simply pay lip service
01:18 to Italy being an important partner.
01:20 I think that's been a pretty particularly prevalent perception
01:25 in the last few months in Rome.
01:28 Just this morning, we heard the French government spokesperson
01:31 saying on French on a French television channel
01:34 that Italy is our European brother.
01:37 And yet, as we saw in that report only six weeks ago,
01:40 France's interior minister was saying that the Italian leader
01:44 was incapable of resolving migration problems.
01:47 So not a lot of brotherly love, particularly in the last few weeks.
01:51 It has to be said.
01:52 Yeah. And is migration still the key sticking point?
01:55 Well, we have to put that in a slightly bigger context.
01:57 So this this migration deal that was just touched on briefly in that report,
02:02 Italy did get some concessions from its EU partners in early June
02:08 when that breakthrough, as European ministers called it, was announced.
02:13 There was stricter processing of asylum seekers at EU borders
02:17 that should, in theory, help Italy also loosening the definition
02:21 of what kind of what countries asylum seekers could be, quote, sent back to.
02:27 That's also aimed at relieving this migration pressure on Italy.
02:31 But the problem is, firstly, that migration deal
02:35 has not been finally approved.
02:37 That was just one stage in the process.
02:39 There still have to be talks between the EU member states
02:42 and the European Parliament.
02:44 So it's a very long haul.
02:45 And in the meantime, the proof of the pudding
02:48 is obviously going to be in the eating this summer.
02:50 What will solidarity look like, if anything, between EU member states,
02:54 as in the summer traditionally is when migrant crossings
02:58 across the Mediterranean increase.
03:01 So there's definitely a potential world for more tensions between France
03:06 and Germany, sorry, between France and Italy as to who should take
03:10 responsibility for this ship or that ship.
03:13 So it's one thing to have a deal on paper.
03:16 Another thing is how countries actually behave
03:20 when it comes to this key question of solidarity that Italy wants
03:23 from France and other EU partners.
03:26 All right, Armin, thank you very much.
03:27 Armin Georgian, France 24's Europe editor.