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00:00High noon, Jones and Keefe here on WEEI.
00:04It's a Celtics Wednesday, which means it's time for pure hoops.
00:08Pure playoff hoops, as Billy has labeled it, at Jones and Keefe.
00:13Justin Turpin, Turp, from WEEI, joining us here in studio as he does every Wednesday at high noon.
00:19What's up, Turp?
00:19What's up? Big game two tonight.
00:21Big game two tonight.
00:23Big game of the year.
00:24Huge.
00:24You'll be in the building.
00:26I will.
00:27Will Jason Tatum be playing tonight?
00:29I don't think so.
00:30I don't think so.
00:30I think it's telling that he was ruled doubtful as opposed to questionable.
00:34And, I mean, I guess it's nothing really to be concerned about.
00:37I mean, we saw, like, the Vegas line kind of tells the story.
00:40They move from 12-point favorites to 10-point favorites.
00:42This is a team they can beat without.
00:43And we were talking about it last week.
00:45Like, they could probably beat this team without two starters.
00:47Now they're getting put to the test here.
00:49But I just don't see the point in pushing them at this point.
00:52It's the first round of the playoffs.
00:54Like, I just don't understand the appeal to push them.
00:57Like, let them rest up.
00:58And if it's a minor thing, just, you know, get them ready.
01:01What do you think the fallout's going to be with Joe Mazzula yelling at him to get up
01:05and then him, you know, being hurt, maybe even missing a game, maybe missing more than
01:09one game.
01:09But we were talking about it a lot yesterday.
01:11How many coaches do you see, especially in the NBA, yelling at their star player to get up?
01:17None.
01:17And that's what makes Joe Mazzula so special to that group.
01:19Like, Al Horford was talking about it yesterday at practice.
01:21They completely identify with him.
01:24They completely embrace his personality.
01:26So that stuff, it's viewed differently to the outside, like to people like fans and other
01:32people around to just kind of catch it.
01:33But that's not something that bothers them.
01:35Well, but the outside stuff bothers Tatum.
01:37He said it.
01:38I mean, he said that in a bunch of different interviews that he pays attention to what's
01:41said about.
01:41And this between his mommy being outside the locker room and this, it's all kind of snowballed
01:47into something different.
01:47So even if he doesn't have a problem with Mazzula, per se, he, I would imagine, because
01:53he said in the past, he pays attention to social media and he takes those criticisms to heart.
01:57I'd imagine he has an issue with the perception of him being soft for sure that Mazzula video
02:02doesn't help.
02:03So whether he has a direct problem with Joe, I bet he has a problem with what's happened
02:08with that that video.
02:09I mean, regardless of what happened, he was going to be hearing that anyway.
02:12He was going to be hearing that he's soft because he was down.
02:14And part of me thinks it was him selling the flagrant as well.
02:16I think if he popped right back up and went to the free throw line, I'm not sure if he
02:20gets a flagrant foul there, right?
02:21If he just pops up, they don't review it and they just carry on.
02:24I think part of it was selling that.
02:25And he was also, he's dealing with something.
02:27He was injured on the play.
02:29He did stick around after and actually scored, I think, nine points.
02:32It was, had three rebounds.
02:33It was actually better after the injury than he was during the game before.
02:36He was fine.
02:37Yeah, he was fine.
02:38So, I mean, again, it's just, I don't see the point of pushing him at this point.
02:42It's a team that you can beat without him.
02:43They understand that there's a long ways between now and June 5th.
02:46And that's what they're focused on.
02:48But, but if he's not hurt, right?
02:50Like if he, if he's, why would you hold him back?
02:53I mean, if he, is he cleared or is he not?
02:54Can he go?
02:55Can he not?
02:56It's bone bruise.
02:57It's a pain tolerance thing, according to Shams.
02:59So, I don't know.
03:00I mean, if he can go, why wouldn't he just go?
03:02I think Keith mentioned it earlier.
03:03Like, is it something you really want to waste?
03:05Like, if he has to do shots or something, is that something you really want to do in the
03:08first round against Orlando?
03:09Maybe this is a persistent thing.
03:11Like, you don't know if it's something that will pop up back down the line.
03:14Or would you rather do it in game two against Orlando or a closeout game against New York
03:18or Cleveland?
03:19I think, I think they need him in New York.
03:20I'm assuming it's going to be New York.
03:22I think they beat Detroit, though.
03:23That's going to be a good series.
03:24But you're going to need him more then than you are going to need him now against Orlando.
03:28And I'm not saying that you can mess around during a playoff series.
03:31Like, let's make that clear.
03:32Of course, you want your best player out there, especially when your second best player is
03:36dealing with the pain management thing of his own.
03:38So, it's far from ideal.
03:39But I think they understand that they can still handle business.
03:42I mean, look, he wasn't even great in game one.
03:44And the guards torched him.
03:45And they had an unbelievable game from their two guys in Paolo Bancaro and Franz Wagner.
03:50And they still lost by, what, 17?
03:52If you're looking at that, it's like playing the long-term game here.
03:56We're five weeks from the NBA Finals.
03:57That's what we're playing for.
03:58What do you make of Horford's comments about KCP going after Tatum a few times?
04:04Basically saying, you know, he's doing some dirty stuff crossing the line.
04:08I don't know.
04:09I didn't really see it that way.
04:10Did you guys see the leaked video?
04:11Like, I shouldn't say leaked.
04:12It was like a video on Twitter.
04:14There was like some audio.
04:15People enhanced it.
04:16And Horford was yelling at him.
04:17Like, that's three times.
04:18That's three times he was yelling at KCP about it.
04:21They seem pretty torn.
04:22Drew Holiday was asked about it after the game on Sunday.
04:25And he didn't think it was anything more than just physical playoff basketball.
04:28I think it was reckless.
04:29I don't think it was anything, like, intentional.
04:32You know what I mean?
04:32I think it was just a reckless play.
04:34And unfortunately, it results in a wrist injury for Tatum.
04:37But I don't know.
04:37It is playoff basketball.
04:38And they also have that mentality.
04:40That's the way they play.
04:41They're a physical basketball team.
04:42I feel like that's their only chance.
04:44I don't think that's what they have to do.
04:45I feel like their only chance.
04:46And I can understand, you know, Horford defending his guys and stuff.
04:50But it felt like it was crossing over to, like, I don't view him as, like, a dirty player.
04:55And, like, you've got to be physical with Tatum.
04:56Yeah, I don't think he is.
04:58Me neither.
04:59I also think Al Horford sees his guy on the ground twice.
05:01Sure.
05:01Because that was two times that Tatum was knocked down from KCP.
05:04I think he sees it.
05:05And Al Horford, again, they talk about him all the time as this leader in the clubhouse.
05:09Like, that's their guy.
05:10That's their emotional leader.
05:12And when he sees their best player on the ground, he comes running over and he's going to say something.
05:16I don't think that's anything out of character.
05:18Do you think, I don't know, you think other teams take note of the Magic being physical with the Celtics in one game?
05:24I've said this consistently.
05:26Orlando is not talented enough to take advantage of the Celtics, even without Tatum tonight.
05:30Like, I think they'll win without Tatum.
05:32So, the Magic are not the team to take advantage of it.
05:35But is it possible a team like New York, Detroit, Cleveland, OKC, maybe even the Lakers,
05:41they take note and they say, oh, the Celtics play way too comfortable.
05:46Night in and night out, they're way too comfortable.
05:49This is a way to make them uncomfortable.
05:50It was only one game.
05:51But is there a possible thing to glean from this if you're a future opponent, a blueprint, if you will, on how to play the Celtics going forward?
06:00I mean, physicality is how you win in the NBA playoffs.
06:03Like, I don't think that's independent to the Celtics.
06:05Like, that's how you win.
06:06You have to up the physicality.
06:07Listen to any player or coach talk about NBA playoff basketball, the first thing they bring up is physicality.
06:12That's the biggest change in the game from the regular season to the postseason.
06:15So, I don't think that's necessarily independent of the Celtics.
06:18In the past, they have struggled against these physical teams, these more – like, look at Orlando, for example.
06:23Like, this has been their DNA for a couple seasons now.
06:25And they were 4-6 against Orlando entering the playoffs this year in the regular season over the last three years.
06:30And that's because they're physical, they play hard, and they have a lot of length.
06:34And in the past, those teams have given the Celtics issues.
06:36I just don't see it with this iteration of the Celtics because they – one, they can match that physicality.
06:41And I think Drew Holiday does a great job in setting that tone.
06:43Jalen Brown has come out more and done that.
06:45Kristaps Porzingis can do it.
06:47They can all do it.
06:48And also, you can just – they can hurt you in so many different ways.
06:50Like, look at game one, for example.
06:52You had Drew Holiday, Peyton Pritchard, and Derek White.
06:55You had your guards doing it.
06:57And this was a series that was supposed to be all about the wings, right?
06:59It was supposed to be Boncaro and Wagner versus Tatum and Brown.
07:02And Tatum and Brown – and Porzingis, for that matter, as well – struggle efficiency-wise.
07:06And the guards pick them up.
07:07So the Celtics just have so many different ways to hurt you now.
07:10And I think they all do a good job of responding to physicality because they've been there.
07:14They've done that.
07:14And they understand that's what it takes to win.
07:16Now, we all picked the Celtics either in four or five on the show in the series.
07:20The Magic did beat the Celtics twice in the regular season.
07:22One game, they didn't play any of their guys meeting the Celtics.
07:25But the two losses, both – there was no Jason Tatum.
07:28That was sort of the one theme.
07:30So without Tatum, what changes for the Celtics?
07:34What do you think the starting lineup looks like?
07:36Who is going to have to be the guy there?
07:38Because maybe Orlando says, hey, guys, we've actually beaten this version of the Celtics before.
07:42Maybe it gives them a little bit of confidence.
07:43Yeah, Al Horford's going to slide in to the starting lineup, and they're going to start double big,
07:46which honestly could be a good thing for the Celtics.
07:49They've fared really well against double big.
07:50Obviously, it's not good that they're going to do without Jason Tatum.
07:54Headline, Kirk, Celtics don't need Tatum.
07:56I didn't know where this was going.
07:57Good, good, good.
07:57No, that's good.
07:58Break that out.
07:58No, no, no.
07:59They have fared well with the double big this year, and I think that's something that could
08:03work well against this Orlando team.
08:05So Al Horford's going to slide in there.
08:06And the good thing is, it's like you have Al Horford sliding in now into your starting
08:10lineup off the bench.
08:11Like, what a luxury that is.
08:12It's like, they're just so talented, and this Orlando team, we were just like, outside of
08:17Franz and Paulo, there's just, there's nothing there.
08:20So the Celtics should be able to take care of business without Tatum.
08:23Obviously, it's not ideal to have your best player out during the playoffs, but if there
08:27was a series that it was acceptable, it'd be this one.
08:30Yeah.
08:30And again, I don't think they need him.
08:32I understand your point, Keefe, that they, the Magic won some of these games without Tatum
08:36in the regular season.
08:37Different element in the postseason.
08:39Maybe I'll be wrong about that.
08:40But I don't think they need him, and I still wonder if he's going to go tonight, but Terp
08:45doubts that.
08:46It's Justin Turpin, WEI.
08:47You can check out all his work, WEI.com.
08:50You can follow him on Twitter at JustinMTurpin.
08:52Taking a step back and looking at the rest of playoff basketball as much as you can, Terp,
08:56I know you're at game one anyways.
09:00Has anything else jumped out to you about any potential future opponents for the Celtics,
09:04in a good or bad way?
09:06Those Pacers.
09:07The Pacers have been really good.
09:08Milwaukee hasn't stood a chance.
09:10I mean, it's been all Giannis, and he hasn't had any help.
09:13Granted, I know Damian Lillard missed game one, but there's been nothing there outside
09:17of Giannis.
09:17And I think people were forgetting about the Pacers a little bit.
09:20Like, that was a team that was in the Eastern Conference Finals last year and gave the Celtics
09:23a run for their money.
09:24I know they swept them, but even to go to Missoula.
09:26It was the closest sweep.
09:28It really was.
09:28It was on record saying that was the hardest series they played.
09:31It was.
09:32That was the toughest.
09:33Andrew Nimhard.
09:34You couldn't put him out.
09:35It's a real thing.
09:36Playoff Nimhard's a real thing.
09:37Like, that guy's the real deal.
09:39Do you think the Pacers could knock off the Cavs?
09:41I don't think so.
09:42I think it's been pretty clear since November or December that it was going to be Boston
09:46and Cleveland in the Eastern Conference Finals.
09:49But, I mean, the Pacers could make it a little bit more difficult than people may have thought.
09:53I think Cleveland would have steamrolled Milwaukee, but we'll see.
09:57I think Indiana deserves a little bit more respect than maybe they would have received going
10:01into the playoffs.
10:01Also, pretty good bad blood there.
10:03Like, I'm always looking for rivalries.
10:05I'm always looking for something.
10:05It seems like Bucs Pacers don't like each other, so that's fun.
10:09Halliburton and Lillard were kind of going at each other, right?
10:11That's what we need.
10:11Did you see that whole thing with Lillard in game one when he wasn't even playing?
10:14Yes, that's what I mean.
10:15And, like, Pascal Siakam was over there and was like, get out of here.
10:17Like, so, that's great.
10:19We need more of that.
10:20It'll never, you know, go all the way back to where it was, where, you know, guys are,
10:23like, punching each other and stuff.
10:24But if you can have at least some bad blood in these series, that's good.
10:29I don't know.
10:29Maybe Horford and KCP are trying to get it going in this one, but you also need the teams
10:34to be a little bit more even to really happen.
10:35I'm excited to see how they respond to that tonight.
10:37I mean, you know he's going to hear it during the player introductions when he's introduced.
10:42And I think Al Horford especially was, you don't really see him that angry like that
10:46when he's, you can't really, like, hear it in his voice because he's still a reserved
10:51guy, but you don't see Al Horford that annoyed with players like that.
10:55Well, Horford's used to getting away with the cheap stuff, and so he's annoyed when somebody
10:58else is getting away.
10:59Yeah, he's supposed to be the one who's getting away with all of that cheap stuff.
11:03So, no, I, look, I just think when it comes down to Tatum and the discussion about Tatum,
11:09do you think he's soft?
11:10I don't.
11:11I mean, he's better.
11:11Do you think players are soft?
11:13Like, are there some players you look at and you go, that guy's soft, like, regardless
11:15of who that is?
11:16I mean, the league had to institute a rule to incentivize players to be on the court.
11:20So, why is Tatum not in that group?
11:23I mean, he's, so, he's been with the Celtics now since, what, 2017, 2018 season.
11:27They've played 114 games, or playoff games, over that stretch.
11:31He hasn't missed a single one.
11:32Right.
11:33So, I mean, he, but he hasn't been hurt.
11:34So, I mean, like, to me, that would be.
11:36He's played through wrist stuff before.
11:37He's played through different ailments.
11:39Somebody's hurt in the, what, Miami series, right?
11:41Yeah.
11:42Well, he's banged out.
11:42Yeah, I mean.
11:42Took a hard fall there, Jones.
11:44Yeah, I mean, you know, so, I guess this would be my point, and the Twitch chat brought this
11:46up earlier.
11:46There is a difference between being soft and being injury-prone, right?
11:50Yeah.
11:50And so, he does play.
11:51Keith made this point earlier.
11:52Jalen Brown, I think, is tougher than Tatum.
11:54Jalen Brown misses games.
11:55So, to me, those are two different things.
11:58I think, when you think about Tatum and his toughness, I would juxtapose it with Jalen.
12:02I think that's why some fans identify more with him than Tatum.
12:05Does this also go back to how he carries himself, though?
12:07It's 100% that.
12:08I think it is how they carry themselves.
12:09Because when you're talking about games played, advantage Tatum, minutes is about a wash,
12:14right?
12:14So, like, in the games, I'm sure they're getting knocked down and they're getting hurt or whatever.
12:18They play.
12:19Like, you can rely on them.
12:20In fact, Tatum played more minutes than Brown did even in the playoffs last year, even though
12:23Brown was the Finals MVP and the Easter Conference Finals MVP.
12:27Tatum plays.
12:27But, yeah, there's just a lot of guys in the NBA that have that thing where either it's
12:31ingrained in them to sell fouls or to sell flagrants or whatever.
12:37It's probably a game now.
12:38It is.
12:39Unfortunately, it is.
12:40You watch soccer.
12:41If you watch international soccer, the best of the best, you're like, why is that guy
12:44down?
12:44He's going to keep playing.
12:45Why is he laying around like he's dead?
12:47The guy's, like, seven feet tall.
12:49I forget who it was.
12:50It was a smaller guard that, like, leaned into him and Jokic flew back four feet.
12:53Like, that's just unfortunately part of the game now.
12:56Your guys go, LeBron, flopping around.
12:58Jalen Brunson's a perfect example.
13:00LeBron takes forever to get up.
13:02Celtics fans are like, get up!
13:03They're all yelling at him like Missoula.
13:05They're all Missoula.
13:05Tatum's down.
13:06They're like, oh, he's really hurt.
13:07And he really, he wasn't milking the injury.
13:09He was really hurt.
13:10Terp, I believe you did not see the latest Celtics City?
13:13I haven't yet.
13:14I've been so caught up in the playoffs.
13:15I would tell you, though, this is a good one for Terp, because how old were you in 08?
13:20One.
13:21Seven?
13:22Negative three.
13:23You're seven.
13:24Okay, so that, I mean, there's a ton of good stuff in this episode.
13:27This is another good one.
13:28And again, I think outside of the slow start, the first two or three, the 60s and 70s to
13:32me, it was too slow moving.
13:34But this focus is mainly on 08.
13:36It's the aftermath of Paul Pierce getting stabbed at the Buzz Nightclub.
13:40You know, it's all the way through the championship in 2008.
13:42It's the trade for Garnett and Allen and that whole back and forth.
13:46There's a ton of interesting stuff in here from Pierce talking about, I was addicted to
13:51NyQuil because I couldn't sleep.
13:54After I got stabbed, which you can understand.
13:56And I just, I didn't know that.
13:58I mean, Pierce revealed at one point, Patino was like, do you want to get traded?
14:01I'll trade you.
14:02Patino.
14:03That would have been a great lasting thing for Patino.
14:05Imagine he traded Billups and Pierce.
14:06Like, honestly, I'm the one here.
14:07And Joe Johnson.
14:08And Joe Johnson.
14:08It's sort of like, it's kind of like a good human thing.
14:12Pierce is scared to be here.
14:13And he's offering him like an olive branch.
14:15Pierce framed it that way.
14:16Pierce is like, he had my back.
14:17I get, he had my back.
14:19But it's like, wow.
14:19So Patino wanted to trade Paul Pierce too?
14:21Yeah.
14:21What a slime ball, by the way.
14:23When he like quits on the team.
14:24And then he's like, yeah, I'll hold a press conference.
14:27Jackie McMullen's like still waiting on that press conference.
14:30I'm surprised.
14:31I didn't know he did.
14:31I didn't know he blew off the.
14:32He just resigned by fax and bailed.
14:34I didn't know that.
14:35Stemmed the fax.
14:35Took off.
14:36I was too young.
14:37I wasn't seven, but I was too young.
14:38But that was wild that he agreed to be a part of the documentary.
14:42Like, because Bill Simmons went on.
14:44Of course, it was a chance to make it about him.
14:46Of course he would.
14:47Yeah, but it went really poorly.
14:48Like, really poorly.
14:48He doesn't care.
14:49Any attention is good attention for him.
14:50See, that is his mindset.
14:51But like, Bill Simmons was asked by Jimmy Kimmel.
14:53Like, was there anybody that you wanted for the documentary that you didn't get?
14:56And he's like, yeah, like nobody wanted to be the villain.
14:59So like Magic Johnson, Isaiah Thomas, Charles Barkley, like they reached out to those guys
15:03that played against the Celtics in law.
15:04Isaiah Thomas said no specifically because of how he was portrayed in the last dance.
15:08He didn't want to have that again.
15:10Well, I mean, when you're an a-hole and you get portrayed as an a-hole, that's nobody's
15:13fault.
15:13But this one would have been worse because they would have had the whole press conference
15:16with Byrd.
15:16That would have been a weird thing.
15:18That's disappointing that Barkley wouldn't do it.
15:20It is.
15:20But it's funny, though, that like for a guy who's like, yeah, I'll do it.
15:23Like, you're not going to come across crazy.
15:25I don't care.
15:26Barkley is like thick skinned, I thought, and like is not afraid to take shots.
15:29He won't be a part of this.
15:30Like, come on.
15:31Barkley's also been really complimentary in the past of Kevin McHale.
15:34He said he's the most difficult cover.
15:36He was like the guy had a thousand moves.
15:38Every move was different down there.
15:39He's like, he was the most difficult player he ever guarded was Kevin McHale.
15:42So that would have been cool to have in it.
15:43But I thought they did a good job.
15:45And much like I mentioned how two episodes ago, they shone some light on those weird
15:50D Brown teams where they didn't really have a whole lot going.
15:53But as a kid, I was like obsessed.
15:54He wasn't part of it anyway.
15:55If you ask Rick Pitino.
15:56No, right.
15:57He wasn't part of our plans.
15:58They did a good job highlighting just how fun and really important the Pierce-Antoine teams
16:05were with Jim O'Brien for two years that for a lot of us, we were like, I don't remember
16:09Bird.
16:09I was too young for Bird.
16:10But that was amazing.
16:11They had an Eastern Conference Finals run.
16:13We were excited about that team.
16:14Let me tell you, Torb, when you watch the episode, Wick, not a good episode for Wick.
16:20Wick is up there taking credit for the Garnett trade.
16:22Yeah.
16:23Like, I'm the one who pushed it over.
16:24Me and Glenn Taylor pushed it over the finish line, which, come on.
16:27Yeah, I think Ainge and McHale may have had something to do with it.
16:29And he's still acting like he's the owner of the team, which we all know in retrospect.
16:32I'm sure this was filmed before the sale.
16:34Maybe he had an inkling of a sale coming or not.
16:36But he is up there acting like he's the one calling the shots with the organization.
16:40That was a weird connection.
16:41Rough look for Wick.
16:42He was like, I was looking at all my crew trophies.
16:45And I was like, I want to win trophies.
16:47I was like, Dad!
16:49Dad, buy me a team.
16:51I want a trophy like I got in crew.
16:53It was like a road crew.
16:54I'm like, oh, you lost me there.
16:55You bought me a college education, and I got a trophy in crew.
16:59It was super good.
17:00Buy me a team, Dad.
17:02That was weird.
17:02That was really strange.
17:02So weird.
17:03I do know the filming did happen before they won the championship.
17:06And obviously, the sale went up after.
17:08He probably did have an inkling.
17:09That's not a decision that's made in two weeks between when they win the finals.
17:13He had no say whatsoever.
17:14It doesn't matter if he had an inkling or not.
17:16It wasn't up to him.
17:17No, but he may have known, but he was still just, yeah.
17:19Can I ask you one thing while we're talking owner?
17:21Chisholm's been at all these games, right?
17:22Yes.
17:24Do they show him?
17:25Do they make any point of showing him in the arena?
17:28We see him sometimes just like, oh, on the in arena.
17:30Sorry.
17:30I was saying on TV, every once in a while when they pan over here, I'm like, I'm pretty
17:33sure that's...
17:33Oh, you'll see him in the background, but they don't make a point of highlighting him
17:37at these games, right?
17:37Not that I've seen.
17:38They haven't shown him up on the video board yet.
17:40What's up with that?
17:41Maybe they're waiting for it to go official.
17:43I mean, he's sitting right next to Wick, so it's not like...
17:45Is there an indication that maybe Wick and Steve are like, don't?
17:48It could be that.
17:49But is there any indication...
17:51Again, it's not finalized.
17:52Like, could it fall through?
17:53You want to talk about tariffs?
17:54Could it fall through?
17:55I mean, we talked about this a couple weeks ago.
17:56There's still a lot that needs to go right between when this is finalized and how he actually
18:01gets the keys to the franchise.
18:03I find it to be interesting.
18:03He's at all the games.
18:04He's sitting right next to Wick.
18:06And Pags right there.
18:07Not awkward at all, I'm sure.
18:09Yeah, that is a weird setup, isn't it?
18:10Yeah.
18:11Yeah, it's really strange.
18:12All right, Terp, pure hoops with Terp, pure playoff hoops with Terp now as we get into
18:16the April month here of the playoff basketball.
18:20So, Terp, good stuff.
18:21Check him out at JustinMTurpin on Twitter and all his work.
18:25WEEI, you want his pregame stuff, postgame stuff, all the Celtics coverage, best place
18:29to get it.
18:30Terp, we appreciate it.
18:30Thanks so much.
18:31Yes, sir.
18:31See you guys.
18:32See you guys.
18:32See you guys.
18:32See you guys.
18:32See you guys.
18:32See you guys.
18:34See you guys.