Nathaniel Moran Asks Witness: What Are The ‘Biggest Fraud Risks’ In The TANF Program?

2 days ago

During Tuesday’s House and Ways Committee hearing, Rep. Nathaniel Moran (R-TX) questioned Seto Bagdoyan, the director of Forensic Audits and Investigative Services at the Government Accountability Office, about fraud within the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families Program.

Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:

https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript

Stay Connected
Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes
More From Forbes: http://forbes.com

Transcript

00:00Recognize Mr. Moran of Texas for five minutes.

00:03Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks to all of you for being here today.

00:05This is an important subject, the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families Program,

00:10which we refer to as TANF, is one that I know in East Texas, where I come from,

00:15is used to help those temporarily in need, those families and those individuals,

00:20when they have those times of need, whether it's through cash assistance or other programs,

00:25services like utility bills, rental assistance, child care,

00:28a lot of things that come the way that are used for appropriate times of need, temporarily.

00:36And we forget sometimes that in 1996 when we created this, the Republicans created this,

00:43that it was intended to move folks from a federal welfare funding with open-ended entitlement programming

00:50to a capped block grant to the states.

00:52And it hasn't changed the level of funding since 1996.

00:56I think that's really important.

00:57And so we're trying to have accountability and transparency in that process.

01:02But, of course, these five GAO reports show that there's a lot of work that we have to do,

01:09a whole lot of work.

01:10Those reports had findings like we've got to have more.

01:14They identified 21 fraud risks in nine different categories, including billing fraud,

01:19misuse of award funds, and diversion.

01:22There's a lack of data on demographic characteristics that we've already talked about today,

01:27a lack of data on participation and outcomes.

01:30Ninety-nine audit findings.

01:31This was amazing to me that we have seen were repeated findings that were never addressed.

01:37So there's a lot of work to do.

01:38I want to go back to a couple of those and ask you all some questions about that.

01:42Mr. Bagdoyan, what are some of the biggest fraud risks that you have seen

01:47or that you're aware of in the TANF program?

01:50Well, the EBT risk, Mr. Moran, is paramount.

01:54It is an easy vehicle for fraudsters to target.

01:57There have also been instances of falsified invoices for inflated costs or services not rendered.

02:08Also, the commingling of TANF funds with other sources of funding for assistance,

02:16basically disguising the original TANF funding and then spending it for non-TANF purposes.

02:22So those are some of the prominent ones that we have focused on.

02:27And as you mentioned, all these risks do need really focused assistance over the long term to address.

02:38Ms. Simmerlott, I'm going to ask you, you just heard that answer from Mr. Bagdoyan.

02:42You put some of these things into practice day after day.

02:45Does it bother you to hear that some of these funds are being misused in a way

02:50or captured in a way that is not intended for the purpose

02:53and for those needy families that actually need it?

02:55Does that bother you?

02:57Well, any level of abuse, fraud, waste, misinterpretation is of concern.

03:07Certainly, program integrity and compliance is paramount for those of us that work in the program every year.

03:15Actually, the point about invoices coming through for inflated costs

03:23or the point about just vendors or providers for other TANF purposes.

03:36Those are problems in the program.

03:38And so, Ms. Lahren, I want to come to you and ask you,

03:41how are states evaluating and taking care of some of those problems?

03:45In particular, let me ask you specifically about the TANF-funded non-assistance services

03:50such as job training or early childhood education.

03:53How are they currently evaluating the improvement and the outcomes for families in poverty?

04:00Well, some states are doing it better than others.

04:03So, Texas actually is a good example because they collect the same data on their TANF recipients

04:09as they do from their WIOA recipients on their job training.

04:15It's a whole range of outcomes that they are tracking to determine whether that money is actually achieving TANF goals.

04:22And other than sheer will, is there some reason why the other states just don't want to do that or haven't done that?

04:27Well, some of them are not aware of these promising practices, which is why we recommended that HHS encourage states

04:36to share information about how they're using data.

04:41With my last question, I'm going to come to you, Mr. Arkin.

04:44In the GAO report, enhanced reporting could improve HHS oversight of state spending.

04:50GAO found that Texas appropriates TANF funds to provide workforce training to individuals

04:55and that the state plans to spend down their unspent balance in this manner.

05:00Could you provide additional insights as to how states have used TANF non-assistant funds

05:05to help Americans gain employment and meet local employment needs,

05:09lifting people out of poverty and away from the point where they need this help?

05:14Sure.

05:14Thanks for the question.

05:15I mean, that's one of the non-assistance examples of spending is employment training,

05:21support for training and education, to help people find employment,

05:26to help people become more employable, to provide child care for people who need to seek and hold employment.

05:31So that's one of the main uses of non-assistant spending.

05:36Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Nathaniel Moran Asks Witness: What Are The ‘Biggest Fraud Risks’ In The TANF Program?

Category

Transcript

Recommended