Keynote Conversation with Lynette Howell Taylor | Power of Law
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00:00I'm so thrilled to be able to sit and talk with one of, I think, the most incredible producers
00:05working today, testament to tenacity and also, I think, hyper-relevant to your business because
00:12of her prolific career. Please welcome Lynette Howe-Taylor.
00:24Thank you for this.
00:25Thanks for having me. Thank you, Variety.
00:27All right. What questions do you have? Insurance, bonding, defamation.
00:34Exactly.
00:36I think one of the, you know, in the ongoing conversation we have in our newsroom about
00:40the biggest challenges of the business today, I think we're 18 months into a strike resolution
00:46and I think the wheels are still struggling to turn a little bit, especially in terms
00:50of deal-making, which we need all of you for, obviously, to keep that going. Would you agree
00:55that we're, like, not quite back up to speed since before the labor strikes of 23?
01:01Yeah. I mean, not only would I agree that we're not quite back up to speed, but I think that
01:05we are in a real transitional period in the business for so many people, including everybody
01:15in this room. And I think it started with the pandemic. It started with the introduction
01:22of streaming, the writer's strike, and then the most recent strikes, and the challenges
01:31of shooting in California. I think all of those things are creating an environment where everybody
01:40is looking at how they monetize differently. And because the business has been shaken up.
01:47So, you know, I think after the writer's strike, you had, or during the writer's strike, you
01:52had agents, a lot of agents defected and became managers, partly out of frustration. I think
02:00people genuinely like to feel appreciated. And I think that there was an emotional component
02:05to that. And then there was also, you know, practical component, a financial component of
02:10sort of leaving to become managers, which then created, you know, a different environment
02:15where then management, manager production companies started, which really affects, you know, where
02:21I can really sort of talk about it is my personal experience as a producer, and how at the end
02:27of all of this, sort of like the knock-on effect has impacted, you know, my colleagues and
02:33the people that do what I do for a living. But I think that in general, what's happening
02:38is this, like, shake-up. And everybody's realizing that the individual job that they were doing
02:44is under threat, and they cannot monetize it the way that they used to. I think that this
02:49goes, you know, from actors, writers, directors, anybody that had, like, legitimate back-end
02:54saw that go away. And so everybody is trying to work out, okay, I used to have a path, there
03:01used to be a way. And now, for some people, it's about how do I make more? And for most
03:05people, it's about how do I survive? And so I think that the transitional period that
03:10we're in is really centered around that, and it's causing all sorts of friction between
03:18collaborators that also have to work together.
03:21Would you, and would your lawyer agree, that producers are usually the ones that, you know,
03:27are first out with anything? Like, your fee can get diminished to high heaven if it's about
03:31attaching certain talent, if it's about going into overshoots. Like, you're usually the first,
03:36you're ground zero, right, for where it's coming out of your back-end.
03:38Yeah, I mean, it's sadly, traditionally been the assumption that the producer fee is not
03:46protected by a union, and so therefore can be the first to go. But I also feel like,
03:52you know, and this is so great that I have this room to talk to right now. So there's a
03:58similarity between what producers do and what lawyers do, in the sense that we spend a lot
04:04of time working on spec, that we don't get compensated until something goes into production,
04:10something starts shooting. And so everybody in this room probably has,
04:16mostly spec clients, I mean, mostly 5% clients or percentage clients. And so you're doing
04:20all of that work ahead of time. And producing is no different. You know, we spend years developing,
04:27packaging, really working, like detailed, you know, notes with writers and, you know, agents,
04:34calling agents and attaching talent and finding financing and like a tremendous amount of work.
04:39And, you know, for all of you that work on complicated deals, you're doing all of that work
04:45in the anticipation of eventually getting paid. So then imagine, for a moment, that you're now at
04:52the starting line. And a manager comes to you and says, but I was really a part of that negotiation,
05:02like I introduced this person, I made this thing happen. And I gave you that information. And so I'm
05:08now going to take two and a half percent of your 5% fee. What would you all do?
05:15Flip these tables.
05:18That's exactly what you would do. But that is frequently what we're asked to do. And,
05:24and that's the reality. And I think it's something that we're now really, quite frankly,
05:30pleading with this community to help protect. So that if we've been working on something,
05:38and we have a pre-negotiated fee, and somebody comes in at the 11th hour, and whether it's an
05:45actor who not, I'm not talking about like hyphenates that genuinely develop and genuinely produce,
05:51because that's a separate category that really is doing the work. I'm talking about individuals that
05:55come on, and as part of a negotiating plea, and try to like, find other pockets of money,
06:03for all the reasons we've talked about, because it's disappearing from backend, and it's disappearing
06:07from other places. And so the responsibility I'm sure everybody in this room has is to figure out
06:12where to extract it in other places. It's been coming from us. But our job hasn't changed. Our job
06:19is still the same. We're still doing the same amount of work. But now we're expected to share
06:24our fee, when we still haven't been paid, we've been working for many, many years,
06:29with that, you know, actor that came in that greenlit a movie, but isn't actually providing
06:34producing services, but is asking for a producing fee, and a producing credit. And so it's putting
06:41the industry and our profession in an even more precarious place than it has been for years. It's
06:50sort of like an avalanche on all of us. And it's gotten to the place for me where I'm this year
06:57sort of taking a hiatus from producing independent movies, because financially, it's really tough for
07:06me to do that. I've built my entire career on producing independent movies, and like, finding
07:11new directors, and like, you know, supporting their careers. And it's like, so joyful, and I love doing
07:17it. But now I'm spending more of my time, I work with a group called Producers United. And what I'm
07:23trying to do is protect that next generation of young producers that will take the time to support
07:30the next director and figure out how they can get paid for all of that work. And so, you know, that's,
07:37that's the transitional period that, you know, myself and my, you know, colleagues are in at the moment.
07:43I think it's really awesome that you're taking time out of your, I mean, of your own bottom line to
07:47flesh that out. I want to talk about Producers United in a minute. And I also don't want to
07:51embarrass you, but I should have set up top. Lynette has produced some of like, you know,
07:55a star is born, you're, you're about to release a sequel to The Accountant. And anytime you can get
07:59Ben Affleck on a press tour, I'm happy. It's like my, it's like Christmas.
08:02He's really the best. He's very funny.
08:04But your company, 51 Entertainment, I mean, how, it's like you just said, that was built on the
08:11backs of finding filmmakers like, you know, she produced Captain Fantastic, which was a huge
08:16camera winner. And is that sad? And what do you think about the future of that business?
08:21You know, look, I, I am generally a very optimistic person. And I feel like, you know, my, I lost my
08:31house in the Palisades fire. And one of the things that I have come out of that experience with is
08:37just an unbelievable amount of gratitude and a sense of community. I have never, ever in my life
08:47felt community the way that I felt it those first few weeks and still feel it three months on.
08:54And I really believe that that is also at the heart and soul of the entertainment industry.
09:01It's people, it's people, it's stories, it's connection, it's collaboration. And so
09:07everything that I have done, my entire career has been about working with unbelievably inspiring
09:14artists, writers, directors, actors, crew members, I've learned so much from all of them.
09:19You can't kill that. Like there's nothing you can do that's going to kill that human spirit.
09:26And, and, and there's nothing like tragedy and adversity and challenges. And it's not just
09:31the fires. We're in a crazy unprecedented year, what we're dealing with politically, all of
09:36it. But when you see and you live the kind of community experience that I have felt from
09:42everybody, you know that the, the human spirit is unbelievably resilient and will keep reinventing
09:50and will keep adapting. And that to me is always going to be at the heart of storytelling and
09:56the business has been evolving. I have been sitting on panels since for 20 years, just
10:01keep you with the London, but, but the, but the question I get asked on every panel for
10:0620 years is the business has changed. How did the, I'm all, we're always answering the same
10:13question because the business is always changing because, and we are always changing. But yet the
10:17movies this, this past year were incredible and like, they really inspired me and they
10:23uplifted me and they, and I was just like, I was so excited. And so, you know, maybe I'm
10:29not making Captain Fantastic this year, but I can tell you that there is a handful of producers
10:34that are absolutely making the next version of Ryan Coogler's first movie or Chloe Zhao's
10:41first movie or whoever's first movie, like, and they, they will continue to do that. And
10:47that I also believe that like everybody in this room, like the reason why you chose entertainment
10:51law is also because surely you care about entertainment and it's inspiring and you're inspired by artists.
10:57And that's part of it that, you know, that, that you're drawn to that. And there's this
11:01excitement in that. And so everybody here is also a part of that, like tenacity and a part
11:07of the ecosystem and no one's killing that off. Like, it's just not going anywhere. We
11:12just all adapt.
11:13Amen. I want to talk about Producers United because my, my sort of introduction to this
11:19new organization, which is a parallel organization to the, to the PGA. It's a, it's a volunteer
11:24signatory sort of body of a ton of A-list producers I'm sure that you all represent. But we first sort
11:30of, you came on our radar in terms of credit proliferation, you know, this year when I think three
11:36of the ten Best Picture nominees were announced at the Academy Award nominations, they all
11:41had credits TBD, which was frankly just messy. It just didn't look very, like, how is it,
11:47how is it unclear who made these films? And, you know, sort of through our reporting, what
11:51I was fascinated by is that a lot of these credits are negotiated so far upstream. And
11:56again, you know, giving vanity production credits to, to actors who might not actually be involved
12:01in the finding of the source material, the actual work of producing or any of that. And
12:06that's mostly done in rooms with studio heads and agents, which I think these lawyers would
12:09call self-dealing. So I just would love to know like how, I think that's kind of like
12:15the first prong of attack, right, for, for Producers United. And where do you see it all
12:20going? Where do you think that new ownership, that new backend, that, how can this still be
12:24a sustainable profession as producers are so necessary? Because half of the people you supply
12:28to don't want to make stuff themselves anymore. Just go look at your Netflix top 10, by the
12:32way. Um, it's all licensed content.
12:34Yeah, for sure. I think, look, I think Producers United was formed out of desperation. I think
12:40that when the top tier of producers feels like they can't make a living anymore and that,
12:47um, and that they're also really genuinely concerned for the next generation of producers
12:53who really can't make a living anymore. I mean, when you talk to, I mean, when you talk
12:57to Alex Coco, um, and, and Sean Baker about making nothing on Enora, like that's, that's
13:05widespread. And, you know, and so I think as it relates to Producers United, you know,
13:10we really formed because the profession of producing is essential. Studio heads know it,
13:16studio executives know it, they know it. Um, filmmakers know it, um, they rely on producers.
13:21I get calls all the time from studio heads where they say, hi, we have a movie. Um, this
13:28is where it's at. It's, you know, it's, it's, we want to shoot it in the fall. Um, and we're
13:32looking for a producer and I'll get the submission and it will say, you know, four names attached
13:37to produce and I'll call back and I'll be like, but there's four people here are producing
13:42it. Why do you need me? Well, none of them are really going to produce it. And, and that
13:47happens constantly. And, and I look, I think all of us, we all collaborate. I love collaborating.
13:51I have partners on every movie and a lot of them are hyphenate partners. They also have
13:55other roles and responsibilities. And I've worked with some of the most amazing hyphenate
13:59producers, producers that write and direct and act like some of the Ben Bradley Cooper,
14:03Ben Affleck. I mean, I've like, they're, and they're remarkable and really, really produce,
14:07but producing is a job and it's, it's a really hard job and it is a full-time job and it should
14:13be compensated as such, especially when you monetize it over the amount of years, you
14:16have to spend on a project. And so now when you have an actor that's coming in or a writer,
14:22that's not going to come to set and they're asking for a producer credit, which in therefore
14:27invades the fee, which is also what it's about. Um, that's just coming from me. It's not like
14:33that individual is going to sit on cost report calls with me, be liable, be liable, um, be
14:39accountable. And so producers United is now saying, look, producers welcome partners, really
14:45welcome partners. But if you want to take the capital P producer credit, you really have to
14:50come do the job to show up for tech scouts. You have to be part of the hiring process. You have
14:55to have the difficult conversation with agents about, about credit and compensation and where
15:00people sit in the billing order. And like, these are all things that we all do. You have to sit.
15:04And I think, cause I think a lot of people want to be involved because of the creative side,
15:07which is like wonderful and awesome, but there's this whole other side, you know,
15:11you have to talk to the banks, you have to talk to, you know, your foreign sales agent.
15:15You have to, there's like, you have to sit and to go through your post schedule and your
15:19deliverables. You know, I mean, these are all things that producers do. It is a job. It should
15:24be compensated. It should be an isolated fee and it should be credited as such. And I know
15:29that a lot of actors, I saw, I saw a headline in IndieWire yesterday. I didn't read the article,
15:35but the headline said, you know, Rami Malek took a producer credit because he had a, um, a speech
15:40cutout of, um, a PTA movie that he was in. And so he became a producer. And I, I thought to myself,
15:46there's a lot of, it reminds me, there's a lot of actors that feel a sense of powerlessness that
15:52they don't feel like they have a seat at the table and it's their, um, you know, it's, it's their,
15:57you know, each actor is its own company. You're, you're your own, you know, it's your brand,
16:01your everything is super important. And so the, but the idea that being a producer will,
16:07will give you more power is also just like categorically untrue. Um, if you're the lead
16:13of a movie, that's your power. You're the person the studio is relying on to go out. You have a seat
16:18at the table. Um, and, and if you really want to be involved in producing, then there are two tiers
16:24to that. There's like really on the ground everyday producing, which is your capital P producer. And if
16:31there's like, I want to be involved, I want to know, then that's an executive producer. And that's
16:35where the credit should be. And it's just, it's getting out of hand and it's making the business
16:39unsustainable, especially for young up and coming producers, where that pot is pretty small on those
16:47independent movies. And it, you know, those, they just can't afford to share it over many,
16:52many years. You end up making less than a, you know, production assistant does, um, for the,
16:58you know, for the expertise that you're bringing in.
17:00To say nothing of the fact that the same talent is still getting compensated as talent
17:04from market rates of their agents, that it's very, it's very interesting proposition.
17:09Um, one thing I definitely wanted to talk about with you too, because you produce movies at this
17:13level, which I think is really fascinating. And I wonder if there's about to be a dam that breaks.
17:18We reported, I think two weeks ago that Ryan Coogler's deal with Warner brothers over sinners,
17:24um, is very much like the one Quentin Tarantino took for once upon a time in Hollywood,
17:28where after I think for Ryan, a 25 year period, um, he'll, the copyright will revert back to him
17:34and then Warner's will keep a first right of distribution for downstream revenue.
17:38Um, is that to you a way that some of the equity can come back? What does that proposition mean
17:45for you as a producer? And, and to that effect, if Ryan can do it, if you're the producer holding
17:51the ace, if you've got the life rights, the source material, whatever, would you guys ever ask
17:55for copyrights back? And how do you think the students feel about that?
17:59Again, I think it comes down to the transitional period that we're in and moving away from the
18:06traditional backend model where when I, as a producer was perfectly happy to take my upfront fee,
18:13share my credit with the one or two, maybe other people that were actually genuinely sharing the
18:18very big job with me and having a small piece, usually a small piece for producers, um, of the,
18:25of the backend that was legitimate, that you would see it if the movie was a success.
18:29When that model goes away, everybody is looking at, okay, well, how do I get compensated for my
18:36contribution? And, you know, when you look at, when you look at artists like Ryan, who,
18:41you know, have built what they have built and also, you know, Ryan's investment, you know,
18:48Ryan came from independent film and like, and, and his like sheer tenacity and talent, um, you know,
18:55he should be compensated at the highest level for that because he's making other people so much money
19:02and providing jobs for thousands of people. There should be real compensation for that. And, and I do
19:09believe that, that, um, those kinds of deals are going to start to evolve and that everybody,
19:16especially this year is going to start to look at new ways to monetize what they do, um, and how to
19:23be compensated for their work. And, you know, this is the room that's going to be figuring that out,
19:28you know, and, and, um, and hopefully there'll be, there won't be too much pain in that process,
19:34although I doubt it, but, um, you know, but ultimately I think, look, people want to be fairly
19:39compensated for the work that they are putting out there and the impact that they're having.
19:44Right. Um, what would you say is sort of the, one of the most important things from your point of
19:48view that, that the minds in this room should keep in mind when they're, they're writing these
19:52new blueprints for us in a way forward? Um, I really believe in the power of conversation.
19:59Um, you know, I've been, you know, I'm a producer that gets very involved in, in deal-making. I don't
20:06have a law degree, but I read my contracts really closely. I'm practically married to my attorney,
20:10um, who I make absolutely crazy because I don't have a law degree. Um, but yet I act like I do.
20:18Um, you know, he, um, I, I feel like with anything, I think when you pick up, I mean,
20:25this sounds so dumb, but we still all deal with it. It's just like, I've sat where like a deal has
20:31taken six months because nobody picks up the phone and talks to each other. I just,
20:36please call people. I will call, I call, I will call people. Just, I just really genuinely believe
20:42that especially right now when tensions are high, emotions are high, people feel under threat on all
20:50sides. Everybody, I think that's the thing is that like everybody feels under threat and when people
20:55feel under threat, they have their back against the wall and they think everybody is trying to screw
21:00them out of something. And I genuinely believe that that can, most of the time can get solved if you
21:06pick up the phone and just talk to somebody human to human. When we, when we talk to each other,
21:14when we communicate, I really believe we can get anything done. That's how I've always done it.
21:19The, the times that I've been successful, that's happened. The times where I have failed has been
21:23when I have not done that. Amen. Atomic habits, pick up the phone.