Statement following the families of Katie Allan & William Lindsay meeting with the CEO of the Scottish Prison Service Theresa Medhurst and Deputy CEO Linda Pollock
Aamer Anwar - Solicitor on behalf the families: -
“Today we met with the heads of the Scottish Prison Service. At the start of the meeting, I said to the CEO of the Scottish Prisons Service that their apologies were too little and too late. Since 1995, 48 prisoners under the age of 21 have died at Polmont - 90% of those 48 died by suicide, and all but one was from hanging. Where are the apologies for all those families who for decades were lied to and were told the suicides were inevitable? Let me be clear there is nothing inevitable about suicide.
For seven years Katie and William’s families have been demonized. They never wanted to be campaigners. Today there was no sense of vindication, just sadness, because nothing will bring back William and Katie, but it was about ensuring young people are not treated in the same way again.
The meeting was robust and painful but it was also positive and welcomed by the families. I hope no other family has to set up campaigns and drag the SPS through the courts to get to the truth. The families are grateful to the CEO and her prison services’ response to the FAI, however they want immediate action and accountability. Mrs Medhurst said that what the families said hit home and she is determined to deliver change.
It is important to note Theresa Medhurst the CEO of Scottish Prisons Service agreed that Crown Immunity from prosecution should be abolished – that of course is now a matter for the UK Government to deliver on.”
Aamer Anwar - Solicitor on behalf the families: -
“Today we met with the heads of the Scottish Prison Service. At the start of the meeting, I said to the CEO of the Scottish Prisons Service that their apologies were too little and too late. Since 1995, 48 prisoners under the age of 21 have died at Polmont - 90% of those 48 died by suicide, and all but one was from hanging. Where are the apologies for all those families who for decades were lied to and were told the suicides were inevitable? Let me be clear there is nothing inevitable about suicide.
For seven years Katie and William’s families have been demonized. They never wanted to be campaigners. Today there was no sense of vindication, just sadness, because nothing will bring back William and Katie, but it was about ensuring young people are not treated in the same way again.
The meeting was robust and painful but it was also positive and welcomed by the families. I hope no other family has to set up campaigns and drag the SPS through the courts to get to the truth. The families are grateful to the CEO and her prison services’ response to the FAI, however they want immediate action and accountability. Mrs Medhurst said that what the families said hit home and she is determined to deliver change.
It is important to note Theresa Medhurst the CEO of Scottish Prisons Service agreed that Crown Immunity from prosecution should be abolished – that of course is now a matter for the UK Government to deliver on.”
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Personally, with the families, to offer our apologies for their loss, the tragic loss
00:15of Katie and William and to apologise for the failures of the past and to ensure that
00:22they understand we are committed and determined to not only action the recommendations that
00:31we have accepted in full, but to ensure that there is systemic change across the organisation
00:39which will be impactful and lasting. Thank you.
00:43This is a statement following the meetings of the families of Katie Allen and William
00:46Lindsay with the Chief Executive Officer of the Scottish Prison Service, Theresa Medhurst
00:51and the Deputy CEO, Linda Pollock. Today we met with the heads of the Scottish Prison
00:55Service. At the start of the meeting I said to the CEO that their apologies were too little
01:00and too late. Since 1995, 48 prisoners under the age of 21 at Polmont have died. 90% of
01:09those 48 died by suicide and all but one was from hanging. Where are the apologies for
01:15all those families? For decades those families were lied to and were told the suicides were
01:20inevitable. Let me be clear, there is nothing inevitable about suicide. For seven years
01:26Katie and William's families have been demonised. They never wanted to be campaigners. Today
01:32there was no sense of vindication, just sadness because nothing will bring back William and
01:36Katie. But it was about ensuring young people are not treated in the same way again. The
01:41meeting was robust and painful but it was also a positive one and welcomed by the families.
01:46I hope no other family has to set up campaigns to drag the SBS through the courts to get
01:51to the truth. The families are grateful to the CEO and her Prison Service's response
01:56to the FAI but they want immediate action and accountability. Mrs Medhurst, the CEO,
02:01said that what the family said today hit home and she is determined to deliver change. It
02:06is important to note also that Theresa Medhurst, the CEO of the Scottish Prison Service, agreed
02:12with us that crown immunity from prosecution should be abolished. That of course is now
02:17a matter for the UK Government to deliver on but when you have a situation where the
02:21Scottish Prison Service agrees with the lifting of crown immunity, where the Scottish Government
02:25and every opposition party in the Scottish Parliament agrees with the lifting of crown
02:28immunity, the question really is now for the UK Government to deliver on that. I'm going
02:32to ask John Riley, William's brother, to speak. So hopefully after seven years now we get
02:37some answers and we can put a stop to this and save the rest of the people out there
02:42who actually come into these places and just make it a safe space for our people. Very
02:47positive, honest and robust response today and their honesty and their obvious willingness
02:55to see change, mostly cultural change which is a very, very difficult thing to change.
03:03Their willingness to listen to families in the future, to engage with us. For the first
03:10time I think we didn't feel demonised by the Prison Service but we felt listened to and
03:17we found that very restorative. It took seven years for ligature points to be removed. That
03:24was something that was rigged seven years ago, six years ago, five years ago, four years.
03:28It took a screwdriver to do the job within five minutes. Now we said to Teresa Meadows
03:34there is a culture, there's a problem within the Prison Service that refuses, that exists
03:39in a culture of denial. It gaslights the families. As we said today, there's 28 families that
03:44we're representing presently. There shouldn't be any other family that has to set up a campaign.
03:48It took them seven years to come here to have the meeting with the family. It's accepted,
03:52it was positive, it was robust but much more needs to change and that culture doesn't just
03:57start from the top. It works all its way down to the bottom and it was recognised as
04:01well by the families that there are prison officers who are good prison officers trying
04:04to do a difficult job. There are whistleblowers regularly in contact with us telling us what's
04:09happening actually on the front line and this isn't just about Polmont. Let's be clear,
04:13this is not just about Polmont. It's about prisoners who are vulnerable, placed in vulnerable
04:18situations. Prisoners have a duty of care to prisoners right across Scotland. It's not
04:24a case of lock them up, throw away the key and who cares what happens to them. They also
04:28have lives. They have a right to be respected and they have families whose lives are left
04:31shattered when they take their own lives. I think today was the beginning of a dialogue
04:38which is a complete reversal from what we've experienced over the last seven years. I think
04:45we were seen as partners that could help change things as opposed to the enemy that was criticising.
04:52Chief Constable Ian Livingstone said to me a few years ago, how can it be that his service
04:57could be prosecuted but the prison service that can lock people up for 24 hours, seven
05:02days a week can't be prosecuted. That has allowed them to get away with state sanctioned
05:06murder, that has to stop. Admitted they've made mistakes, they've accepted responsibility,
05:11they've accepted liability. That's huge. They've never done that before. They have gaslighted
05:16families, including these families. They've demonised them, they've called them liars,
05:20they've said wait for the FAI, we've had the FAI. They've got no choice now but to
05:25change.