Martin Heinrich Presses Witness To Explain Delays In Cleaning Abandoned Hardrock Mines

2 days ago

During a Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee hearing prior to the congressional recess, Sen. Martin Heinrich (D-NM) questioned experts about cleanup efforts of natural sites.

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00:00Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman. Mr. Wood, according to the GEO there are at least 140,000

00:08abandoned hard rock mine features just on federal land and GEO actually points out itself that that

00:15information where those sites are so lacking that the true number may actually be closer to half a

00:21million features on public land alone. That leads into the dynamic that you described of something

00:29like 40 percent of headwater streams being impaired, places that should run clear and

00:36be home to trout running orange and acidic, which certainly impacts both irrigation,

00:43municipal water supplies. Walk us through what the primary impediments are to being able to

00:49clean up those sites and how much of it is purely a resource constraint. Well, thanks to your good

00:58work, sir, on the Good Samaritan Remediation of Abandoned Hard Rock Mines Act, one of the primary

01:05problems, liability issues, are at least they're being addressed in a pilot program over the next

01:10seven years. But the single largest, the most fundamental challenge that we face on cleaning

01:17up abandoned mines is that there's no dedicated funding source for it. So TU has managed to do

01:23about 50 abandoned mine cleanups around the country and the way we're able to do that in

01:27spite of the liability is we get federal agencies to agree to hold the liability for us. And it's

01:32only on public land that we can do that. But we have to cobble, we have to beg, borrow, and steal

01:38to get that money. It's membership dollars, it's the mining industry, frankly, has been generous

01:43in supporting a lot of abandoned mine cleanups, foundations, private citizens. There's no,

01:49unlike with coal, unlike with oil, unlike with gas, there's no dedicated funding source that

01:54we can rely on. Mr. Barrick, is it reasonable to expect mining companies to make some contribution

02:01towards that effort? Senator, the way, let me answer that one this way. We have said over the

02:13years that we would support a reasonable net royalty. Now there are, as you've heard me say

02:19before, there are issues about that, including that we should look at total government take.

02:25And when you look at total government take within the form of taxes and royalties to state and

02:31local governments, the amount that you pay to operate in Nevada is really commensurate with

02:37what we would pay to operate in Australia or Canada. That said, we support a reasonable net

02:43royalty. Net royalty is preferable because in the hard rock mineral context, the ore bodies

02:50are extremely complex and different, and net represents, net actually recognizes the difference

02:57between ore bodies. You don't have to go about determining what kind of royalty rate for which

03:03ore body. The other thing I would note is the way, we have to remember the state and local taxes

03:10because the way the mining law was set up to begin with was it really left taxation and royalties

03:17to state governments. It's interesting because when they pulled oil and gas out of the mining

03:22law in 1920, they made the royalty a federal royalty, but then the federal government collects

03:28it and then distributes it back to the states. And so with that, I would say that we support it.

03:36We would support actually a reasonable net royalty that is earmarked at first for abandoned

03:42mine land reclamation. Great. That's very helpful. It sounds like the main issues here are creating

03:51some sort of regulatory certainty and permitting certainty so that capital doesn't have to be

03:58ridiculously patient. There's the issue of actually being able to have some sort of revenue source

04:04that is reasonable to be able to clean up the existing mine lands problem. And then the issue

04:11that Mr. Wood brought up of some level of discretion within the public land management

04:16agency so that you don't get into the sort of intractable arguments that oftentimes lead to

04:23litigation. Do you foresee, Mr. Haddock, a potential sort of global solution here where

04:33you could have a lot more certainty at the front end and then come up with a reasonable number that

04:39does take into account those variations and then be able to have a more predictable way to clean up

04:46all of the legacy issues? I think all of those things can happen without wholesale revision of

04:53the mining law. Those are discrete issues that I think can be addressed discreetly. My view on

05:00certainty up front is that's what the BLM's land resource planning process is about.

05:06And I think that's where the certainty needs to come. That's where the resources that need to be

05:12protected need to be identified. Because once you start exploring, you need to be able to continue.

05:19So you basically need a map of where this is going to be embraced and it's permissive

05:27and where are the places where maybe there's enough of a conflict that it's not appropriate.

05:33And that process exists and is in place today in the BLM districts. Thank you.

Martin Heinrich Presses Witness To Explain Delays In Cleaning Abandoned Hardrock Mines

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