The Sportster was born 1957 and became a motorcycle for all people. Cruiser, dragbike, flat tracker, street tracker, road racer, chopper and so much more--the Sportster has been customized into infinite variations on its essential V-twin American theme. Technical Editor Kevin Cameron and Editor-in-Chief Mark Hoyer discuss the Sportster, its origins in the early days of Harley-Davidson and where the bike is today in its liquid-cooled form. They even manage to slide Dan Gurney in the discussion!
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SportsTranscript
00:00:00Hey, welcome back to the Cycleworld podcast.
00:00:02Well, we say welcome back because we hope you're back.
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00:00:30Appreciate it.
00:00:32Today's topic, this is a big one.
00:00:35This is big.
00:00:36Harley-Davidson Sportster, 1957.
00:00:40They threw overhead valves, essentially,
00:00:42at a KR-ish type thing with parallel push rods.
00:00:46It was a visual signature that lasted for decades
00:00:49until it was replaced by the liquid-cooled 60-degree V-twin
00:00:53Sportster, which we will get to.
00:00:55One of the most successful big bikes of all time,
00:00:58certainly no Honda Cub, but taking 2003, 2004,
00:01:06when they introduced the rubber mounting,
00:01:08it was the big redesign.
00:01:09Did a lot of work to it.
00:01:11About 1.2 million Sportsters sold.
00:01:15Very little technical changes during that time.
00:01:19A lot of styling changes.
00:01:22Rubber mount certainly improved the bike's vibration signature.
00:01:27You still had a relationship with the motorcycle.
00:01:30Signature, yes.
00:01:34But it did smooth it out quite a bit.
00:01:35And there's a lot going on there.
00:01:38The Sportster was one of the most changeable motorcycles
00:01:42as well.
00:01:43It evolved in so many different ways.
00:01:44I have my wife's Sportster behind me, an XR-1200X.
00:01:50Originally owned by Dan Gurney.
00:01:52And I've talked to Justin Gurney about it.
00:01:54And Justin is a big motorcycle enthusiast.
00:01:57And he says the bike goes precisely 132 miles an hour.
00:02:01And his dad loved riding it.
00:02:03The tank is signed and everything.
00:02:04It's pretty cool.
00:02:06So even Dan Gurney was a Sportster fan.
00:02:10I don't, you know, there's a lot of magnitude here, Kevin.
00:02:13And I mean, certainly we can go through,
00:02:17we can go through, I'd like to understand, you know,
00:02:20from your perspective where it came from.
00:02:22We'll go through that and then we
00:02:24can talk about what's happened in modern times with the model.
00:02:29Yeah.
00:02:30Well, first I want to say that Harley had the good fortune
00:02:40to, most of this wasn't planned, to stumble
00:02:44into a situation in which the value
00:02:46of their motorcycles was social and not technical.
00:02:52Japanese motorcycles excel in technical matters.
00:02:56They have high cylinder pressure.
00:02:58They have high RPM.
00:03:00They are lightweight and so forth and so on.
00:03:03None of that impresses a Sportster rider
00:03:08because nothing else is a Sportster.
00:03:12And Sportster stands in relation to society
00:03:17as a kind of attitude.
00:03:21And I think of those bikes being parked
00:03:23in front of the Ebtide, north of Boston,
00:03:26leaned over to the left, but with their front wheel
00:03:29turned in the opposite direction.
00:03:32And it was as though to say something
00:03:37was questionable on media to society at large.
00:03:42And this is important to young men.
00:03:46It's important.
00:03:48Even if we're preparing ourselves
00:03:51to polish the seats of our pants
00:03:54on office chairs for 40 years,
00:03:58we dream of a different life.
00:04:02So anyway, Harley had several
00:04:07pitcher forces that were acting on them
00:04:10as we came to the beginning
00:04:13of the Great Depression in 1929.
00:04:16They had produced the JD,
00:04:19which was an intake over exhaust
00:04:21or pocket valve engine,
00:04:24for years and years.
00:04:26And it had served well.
00:04:28But production cost was rising.
00:04:31Chiefly because industry had been
00:04:34making a transition from
00:04:37a skilled craft-based operation
00:04:40to mass production.
00:04:42And one of the great things about
00:04:44mass production is,
00:04:46you don't have to pay for experts.
00:04:48You can train them in 15 minutes
00:04:50to operate that nut runner.
00:04:52Just do those three.
00:04:55Then the line will have moved
00:04:58to your right, and you can do the next one.
00:05:00And the miracle of mass production
00:05:03is not that it pays a lot of people
00:05:06a great deal of money,
00:05:08but that it produces enough goods
00:05:10at a low enough price
00:05:12that a lot of people can have them.
00:05:14And price was super important
00:05:16to Harley in this difficult period.
00:05:19So JD, with its complicated
00:05:22unit castings,
00:05:25cylinder and head in one piece,
00:05:28with the exhaust valve stem pointing down
00:05:30next to the cylinder,
00:05:32and with the intake valve stem
00:05:34upward, directly above it.
00:05:36They were concentric.
00:05:38And on a little sort of
00:05:40pagoda built on top of the head,
00:05:43there's this cute little rocker arm
00:05:45teetering back and forth
00:05:47with a great long pushrod.
00:05:49And that was the engine
00:05:52on JD.
00:05:54Well,
00:05:56Harley had seen
00:05:58the great results Indian had
00:06:00from flathead engines.
00:06:02And so they decided to
00:06:04license Riccardo's
00:06:06turbulent flathead.
00:06:08Harry Riccardo was an English
00:06:10engine pioneer
00:06:12who did not
00:06:14discover, but
00:06:16marketed.
00:06:18Codified and marketed
00:06:20in his book, High-Speed Internal
00:06:22Combustion Engine.
00:06:24Because
00:06:26combustion in
00:06:28still mixture is very slow.
00:06:30What you need is to stir
00:06:32that mixture up so that the
00:06:34flame kernel originating at
00:06:36the spark plug is shredded into
00:06:38many pieces and carried to all parts
00:06:40of the chamber.
00:06:42So
00:06:44with the
00:06:46piston rising towards
00:06:48this flattish head,
00:06:50you could provide as much
00:06:53or as little area
00:06:55for the piston to come very close to
00:06:57the air between the piston
00:06:59and this area would then
00:07:01be squished out, stir up
00:07:03the combustion chamber and result
00:07:05in good, not
00:07:07having to use a lot of ignition timing.
00:07:09Harley
00:07:11had also seen
00:07:13that Indian's flatheads
00:07:15were capable of
00:07:17beating the eight valve overheads.
00:07:19Now that's
00:07:21important, that gets your attention.
00:07:23So Harley decided
00:07:25they would buy the license
00:07:27to make flatheads
00:07:29from Ricardo and
00:07:31they would build a 45,
00:07:33a 74
00:07:35and an 80
00:07:37cubic inch.
00:07:39Yes, cubic inch.
00:07:41And
00:07:43this
00:07:45project was carried out.
00:07:47But
00:07:49there was a hitch.
00:07:51Indian was already far down
00:07:53the experience
00:07:55avenue
00:07:57with flathead
00:07:59and what
00:08:01happened to Harley was
00:08:03that the presence of the
00:08:05exhaust port quite
00:08:07near the cylinder
00:08:09caused distortion
00:08:11and piston
00:08:13tightening.
00:08:15So while they're wrestling
00:08:17with this, they're thinking to
00:08:19themselves, if we move
00:08:21this mess of valves and
00:08:23ports, all this hot business
00:08:25up to the cylinder head
00:08:27by making this into an
00:08:29overhead valve engine
00:08:31we would banish all these problems.
00:08:33Oh, but
00:08:35damn, the
00:08:37more parts you put in your
00:08:39engine, the more it's going to cost
00:08:41and of course the depression
00:08:43and everything goes to pieces.
00:08:45It's just terrible.
00:08:47Only three
00:08:49companies survived
00:08:51the onslaught of the Great Depression.
00:08:53Harley, Indian and Excelsior.
00:08:55And Excelsior
00:08:57in 1933 threw in the towel.
00:08:59Old man Schwinn
00:09:01came to work, he said
00:09:03boys, this is the day we quit.
00:09:05And so
00:09:07they were out.
00:09:09And
00:09:11with the terrible
00:09:15out of work levels
00:09:17of the depression, 15
00:09:19to 20%
00:09:21of working people were out of a job.
00:09:25There were millions
00:09:27of cheap cars on the market. Who would
00:09:29buy a new motorcycle when they could
00:09:31get a running car for $5 or $10?
00:09:35So, Harley was
00:09:37under all kinds of pressure.
00:09:39It has to be cheap
00:09:41but it has to be reliable
00:09:43and it has to keep up with modern
00:09:45power levels.
00:09:49So
00:09:51they got to work
00:09:53on the problems of their new
00:09:55flatheads, but at the same time
00:09:57they began to think
00:09:59in terms of an
00:10:01overhead valve future.
00:10:03And
00:10:05one of the plans was to make
00:10:07an overhead valve
00:10:09750, sometimes called a
00:10:1145.
00:10:13And there were all kinds of
00:10:15questions about this and there was endless
00:10:17discussion.
00:10:19Oh, well the 3-speed in the bottom end
00:10:21that we already have is weak
00:10:23and if we put an overhead top end on it
00:10:25it'll break.
00:10:27Well, the original 45 was something
00:10:29like 4.5 to 1 compression.
00:10:31Yeah, these were all
00:10:33very low compression
00:10:36because it wasn't until
00:10:381923 that
00:10:40tetraethyl lead began to be
00:10:42added to gasoline. Powerful
00:10:44anti-knock.
00:10:46When your engine
00:10:48knocks, you lower the compression or you
00:10:50retard the timing. Those are the two
00:10:52sort of normal protections.
00:10:54But if you want to make power
00:10:56you have to get better gas
00:10:58which means tetraethyl lead
00:11:00they used to call it ethyl. Fill it up
00:11:02with ethyl, they'd say.
00:11:04Fill it up with high test.
00:11:06What test are they talking about?
00:11:08Knock testing.
00:11:10So
00:11:14they built
00:11:16some overhead valve
00:11:18prototype stuff.
00:11:20They built a hill climber
00:11:22with
00:11:24four exhaust pipes.
00:11:26They built
00:11:28a
00:11:30prototype machine that got
00:11:32as far as
00:11:34a
00:11:365,000 mile test drive.
00:11:38And
00:11:40meanwhile
00:11:42they came up with steel
00:11:44strut pistons that didn't expand as
00:11:46much when they were hot and had
00:11:48T-slots in them so that they were
00:11:50not going to jam themselves
00:11:52out hard against the cylinder walls
00:11:54and now it was
00:11:56smoother sailing
00:11:58with the big flatheads.
00:12:00Split skirts
00:12:02were pretty popular
00:12:04even into the 50's.
00:12:06Yeah.
00:12:08So
00:12:12these
00:12:14suddenly the pinch
00:12:16the driving force behind
00:12:18a switch
00:12:20first we had intake
00:12:22over exhaust, then we tried flathead
00:12:24now we're hoping to leap
00:12:26to overhead valve
00:12:28the urgency
00:12:30went away because they'd solved
00:12:32the problems of the
00:12:34V models
00:12:36and
00:12:38so they could
00:12:40to a certain extent relax
00:12:42and these prototypes
00:12:44were sort of quietly
00:12:46put away.
00:12:48Then when
00:12:50World War
00:12:52II came and Harley
00:12:54produced lots of military
00:12:56motorcycles
00:12:58and
00:13:00the war ended
00:13:02they put
00:13:04a young man
00:13:06he was hired in 1946
00:13:08John R. Bond
00:13:10whose name you may remember
00:13:12as a one time
00:13:14editor in chief or publisher
00:13:16or whatever he was
00:13:18at Road and Track.
00:13:20Yeah it was his magazine.
00:13:22Yeah.
00:13:24It was Bond Parkhurst Publishing
00:13:26so Joe Parkhurst
00:13:28and Joe was an art director
00:13:30for Road and Track
00:13:32and that's how they knew each other
00:13:34so we shared the building with Road and Track
00:13:36for many many years.
00:13:38Joe Parkhurst had been
00:13:40art director for Karting World
00:13:42in the early 60's.
00:13:44Well
00:13:46Bond was given
00:13:48the assignment to design
00:13:50an all new
00:13:52750
00:13:54and
00:13:56he went at it.
00:13:58First of all he gave it a 60 degree
00:14:00cylinder angle
00:14:02making
00:14:04room in the middle
00:14:06for a high mounted camshaft
00:14:08that would need only little
00:14:10short push rods to operate
00:14:12the rockers and this would
00:14:14allow the engine to reach
00:14:16higher RPM without having to take
00:14:18vigorous
00:14:20measures such as unbelievably
00:14:22stiff valve springs. Normally
00:14:24an overhead valve push rod engine
00:14:26requires about double
00:14:28the valve spring pressure
00:14:30of a flathead
00:14:32because there's so much more material
00:14:34having to move.
00:14:36So
00:14:40stepping back a little bit
00:14:42at one point
00:14:44the two cam JD
00:14:46was a sort of
00:14:49souped up racy version
00:14:51of the long serving JD
00:14:53and it was
00:14:55given roller
00:14:57tappets
00:14:59so company experience
00:15:01with roller tappets began at least
00:15:03that long ago and maybe longer
00:15:05I'm not sure
00:15:07and
00:15:09also in the
00:15:111920's period
00:15:13well in 1929
00:15:15the
00:15:17original D model
00:15:19750
00:15:21was built with
00:15:23four individual camshafts all
00:15:25geared together. A feature
00:15:27that was passed all the way down
00:15:29to Sportster and ceased
00:15:31to be a part of Harley Davidson
00:15:33only in 2021
00:15:35when the last Sportster was
00:15:37assembled. Amazing.
00:15:39So
00:15:41Bond
00:15:43went to town
00:15:45and he provided the thing
00:15:47with
00:15:49this high mounted camshaft
00:15:51and all these advanced features
00:15:53he also gave
00:15:55designed a chassis
00:15:57with a swing arm rear suspension
00:15:59and twin shocks
00:16:01and a telescopic fork
00:16:03on the front
00:16:05oh and the engine
00:16:07was unit construction
00:16:09the gearbox
00:16:11and the crankshaft
00:16:13in the same cases
00:16:15so this was an advanced project
00:16:17and it was cancelled
00:16:19in 1948
00:16:21and Bond left for
00:16:23other work
00:16:25he had a career in auto
00:16:27engineering too I think
00:16:29he became a very
00:16:31experienced person
00:16:33and not that he wasn't
00:16:35in 1946 when he was
00:16:37hired
00:16:39and there are a lot of engineers
00:16:41that have been cancelled
00:16:43you can imagine
00:16:45you build something
00:16:47that's the best that you can conceive of
00:16:49and somebody upstairs
00:16:51in some room with a big polished table
00:16:53in the middle says
00:16:55that's the end
00:16:57move on
00:16:59clean sheet tomorrow
00:17:01design this bolt
00:17:03so
00:17:05that engine
00:17:07that motorcycle was set aside
00:17:09and
00:17:11the British invasion
00:17:13took place
00:17:15parallel twin
00:17:17OHV motorcycles
00:17:19much lighter than Harley's
00:17:21now mind you, Harley's had sold
00:17:23well in places like Australia
00:17:25and other places where
00:17:27the going was rough, people loved
00:17:29Harley's because they didn't
00:17:31break
00:17:33they were heavy
00:17:35and part of the reason for that
00:17:37was
00:17:39durability
00:17:41but these new English
00:17:43motorcycles handled
00:17:45more responsibly
00:17:47accelerated faster
00:17:49they were a lot of fun
00:17:51and a lot of people took up with them
00:17:53people who might
00:17:55otherwise have bought Harley's or Indians
00:17:57so
00:17:59that put some pressure
00:18:01on
00:18:03Harley to come up with something
00:18:05to deal with this new threat
00:18:07and
00:18:09also to modernize the line
00:18:11so
00:18:13the
00:18:15previous 750
00:18:17the W series
00:18:19was replaced
00:18:21it had a 3 speed gearbox
00:18:23the K series
00:18:25was given a
00:18:274 speed gearbox
00:18:29it was given Bonds
00:18:31unit construction
00:18:34swing arm rear suspension with twin shocks
00:18:36his telescopic
00:18:38fork
00:18:40but not the overhead valve system
00:18:42it was
00:18:44a flathead just as W
00:18:46had been
00:18:48and
00:18:50flatheads
00:18:52are hard to get
00:18:54good performance from
00:18:56Indian had a lot of experience
00:18:58and they had Charles B. Franklin
00:19:00who had independently
00:19:02discovered squish
00:19:04at Brooklyn's
00:19:06before World War 1
00:19:08so
00:19:10here was a very experienced
00:19:12person getting excellent
00:19:14results from flatheads
00:19:16Harley was not that far
00:19:18along on that learning curve
00:19:20so the 750
00:19:22K model
00:19:24was slow
00:19:26so they
00:19:28jumped it up
00:19:30883
00:19:32more or less
00:19:3455 cubic inches
00:19:36and it was
00:19:38still not too exciting
00:19:40because when you think of a flathead
00:19:42here's the exhaust valve next to the
00:19:44cylinder
00:19:46the stem is down so the air comes
00:19:48up to the valve
00:19:50enters a side chamber
00:19:52next to the cylinder
00:19:54flows out of there
00:19:56down into the cylinder
00:19:58reverse that for the exhaust
00:20:00function the two valves are side by side
00:20:02in a flathead or side
00:20:04valve as the British say
00:20:06so it's hard
00:20:08to get it all right
00:20:10where do we put the spark plug
00:20:12how should the parts be shaped
00:20:14where should we put most of the volume
00:20:16hard to make it work
00:20:18right. Harley got it working
00:20:20really well at Daytona
00:20:22in 68 and 69
00:20:24when
00:20:26Calvin Raybourn
00:20:28ran away with the 200
00:20:30on
00:20:32the final hurrah
00:20:34of the flathead
00:20:36that was a story
00:20:38we told previously
00:20:40so
00:20:42they decided okay
00:20:44we're going to have to put an overhead on here
00:20:46and
00:20:48some poor flunkies were told
00:20:50go into that huge dark room
00:20:52and move all those old
00:20:54prototype motorcycles around until you find
00:20:56one whose tag says this
00:20:58and here's another one
00:21:00and that stuff was dragged
00:21:02out and it was studied
00:21:04and
00:21:06Harley had
00:21:08built a
00:21:10500cc single
00:21:12that called
00:21:14CAC
00:21:16which had overhead valves
00:21:18and that was studied
00:21:20as well
00:21:22so that
00:21:24when this new overhead
00:21:26conversion for the K model
00:21:28transformed it into Sportster
00:21:30it was
00:21:32a result of
00:21:34engineers studying their own
00:21:36previous prototypes
00:21:38and the performance reports
00:21:40that had been written at the time
00:21:42so it's all a horrible
00:21:44bureaucratic muddle but out of it
00:21:46came Sportster
00:21:48which was
00:21:52really
00:21:54a distillation of
00:21:56the masculine
00:21:58ambitions of American
00:22:00young people
00:22:02it just happened to be that
00:22:04because the first
00:22:06model in 1957
00:22:08had 40 something
00:22:10horsepower and it weighed
00:22:12480 pounds
00:22:14so
00:22:16it wasn't impressively
00:22:18fast
00:22:20the following year they gave it bigger valves
00:22:22and ports and they jacked up
00:22:24the compression
00:22:26the wonderful thing about raising compression
00:22:28is that it helps performance
00:22:30everywhere
00:22:32right from the moment
00:22:34of clutch engagement all the way through
00:22:36to top end
00:22:38and
00:22:40the big valves and ports
00:22:42helped to prevent
00:22:44Harley wheeze out
00:22:46normally Harleys have their
00:22:49torque down low
00:22:51I think 3500 to
00:22:533800 is about where Sportster
00:22:55puts it
00:22:57and
00:22:59torque peaks there and then it
00:23:01slopes down
00:23:03and by putting in bigger valves
00:23:05and bigger ports and later
00:23:07what they call
00:23:09hotter cams
00:23:11meaning less like a Volkswagen
00:23:13because the way you get that
00:23:15bottom torque is to have
00:23:17timing, short valve timing
00:23:19so that the piston can't
00:23:21push stuff back out of
00:23:23the valve that hasn't closed yet
00:23:25so you shorten up the timing
00:23:27and you get that punchy
00:23:29masculine
00:23:31bottom acceleration, it's lovely
00:23:33people loved it
00:23:35so
00:23:39Sportster grew from there
00:23:41and of course it had to cope with
00:23:43many things besides British Parallel
00:23:45Twins, it had to ultimately
00:23:47cope with people saying
00:23:49yeah I love my Sportster but
00:23:51I couldn't ride it more than 25 miles
00:23:53because
00:23:55all of my
00:23:57extremities became numb
00:24:01and
00:24:03there were
00:24:05periods of time when
00:24:07the compression had to be lowered
00:24:09because of the
00:24:11removal
00:24:13of tetraethyl lead
00:24:15from fuel
00:24:17and the compression went back up
00:24:19it was all invisible
00:24:21to the rider but if you look at all
00:24:23these specs you can see stuff
00:24:25changing, the company
00:24:27is trying to make a motorcycle
00:24:29that does what
00:24:31the customer wants
00:24:33and does it
00:24:35reliably and
00:24:37increasingly does it legally
00:24:39so for example
00:24:41when I visited Harley Davidson
00:24:43around
00:24:45well just after the buyback
00:24:47from AMF
00:24:49they had this
00:24:51special area in manufacturing
00:24:53where there were several
00:24:55really expensive
00:24:57Swiss made gear grinders
00:24:59now normally
00:25:01gears are hobbed
00:25:03on a machine that uses a tool
00:25:05looking like a tap
00:25:07that rotates and cuts the teeth
00:25:09and pulls the gear around
00:25:11simultaneously so it cuts all the teeth
00:25:13it's a lovely process
00:25:15gear hobbing
00:25:17but it's not super accurate
00:25:19and if you harden the gears
00:25:21they
00:25:23may warp a little bit
00:25:25and that makes the gears
00:25:27noisy so then
00:25:29you put them on your Swiss
00:25:31gear grinders
00:25:33after they've been hardened
00:25:35and they take
00:25:37away all the little irregularities
00:25:39and the sound level goes down
00:25:41and this was why
00:25:43Harley said at the time
00:25:45we're killing the noise
00:25:47so we can keep the music
00:25:49namely
00:25:51the unique exhaust sound
00:25:53and
00:25:55this is another thing
00:25:57people got used to the way
00:25:59Harley's looked with those
00:26:01little sausage mufflers
00:26:03just as the kids that came
00:26:05to my dealership
00:26:07my partner's dealership
00:26:09wanting to buy a Triumph
00:26:11in 1971
00:26:13where are the mufflers?
00:26:15I don't want these shiny things
00:26:17why are the fork bottoms
00:26:19not painted black
00:26:21like they're supposed to be
00:26:23if you mess
00:26:25with the character
00:26:27of your product
00:26:29it will become unrecognizable
00:26:31and your customers
00:26:33will
00:26:35turn away
00:26:37so
00:26:39Harley has always been
00:26:41very careful about all of this
00:26:43well
00:26:45mostly
00:26:47I think Mark can
00:26:49provide examples of
00:26:51questionable
00:26:53decisions made by persons
00:26:55of lesser experience but
00:26:57on the whole
00:26:59they have recognized
00:27:02that
00:27:04the value of their product
00:27:06is social
00:27:08it connects with riders
00:27:10in a way that
00:27:12machines with the same
00:27:14technical specifications
00:27:16or far better technical
00:27:18specifications cannot
00:27:20because
00:27:22Sportster
00:27:24is unique
00:27:26no one else has made a Sportster
00:27:28no one has created a motorcycle
00:27:30that sells at that volume
00:27:32to so many people
00:27:38it's unerring
00:27:40it is what it is, it is a Sportster
00:27:42and it also fulfills
00:27:46any role
00:27:48virtually any role that you would want it to
00:27:50it had an aftermarket that was
00:27:52massive
00:27:54just wonderful
00:27:56all the stance and swagger
00:27:58like you talk about
00:28:00all the stance and swagger that you could want
00:28:02Sportster chopper, yep
00:28:04can do, spool hub, no brakes
00:28:06whatever, make it rigid
00:28:08does that
00:28:10makes the sound
00:28:12flat track replicas
00:28:14they did Sportster lows
00:28:16XR 1200
00:28:18unfortunately one of the
00:28:20lower selling
00:28:22models
00:28:24the XR 1200 and 1200X
00:28:26not a volume leader
00:28:28it was not fulfilling
00:28:30it was not fulfilling
00:28:32too many persons self image
00:28:34they're great motorcycles, really fun
00:28:36and proof that the platform
00:28:38could be pushed in almost any
00:28:40direction
00:28:42like the 48
00:28:44again no technical merit
00:28:4648 was not technically a particularly great
00:28:48motorcycle
00:28:50very
00:28:52small fuel capacity
00:28:54we're talking like electric motorcycle
00:28:56type range, easy to recharge
00:28:58but 90 miles
00:29:00and the 48 sold
00:29:02it might have been the best selling
00:29:04version of Sportster
00:29:06and it was existing at the same time
00:29:08as the XR
00:29:10the XR just goes away because
00:29:12the last year it sold a couple
00:29:14hundred units I think
00:29:16the XR 1200X
00:29:18so it's
00:29:20really something
00:29:22again rubber mount
00:29:24to 21 was
00:29:26about 1.2 million units
00:29:28just remarkable
00:29:30volume
00:29:32and on no technical merit
00:29:34and Harley noticed
00:29:362014
00:29:38FZ-09
00:29:40FZ-07
00:29:42now MT-09, MT-07
00:29:44Harley noticed those motorcycles
00:29:46entering the market
00:29:48because they were resonating
00:29:50the person that
00:29:52would also be looking at a Sportster
00:29:54and they certainly noticed those motorcycles
00:29:56and those have been very successful
00:29:58for Yamaha
00:30:00and that whole kind of
00:30:02upswing of the low cost
00:30:04parallel twin
00:30:06and triple with the street
00:30:08torque, they're great motorcycles
00:30:10Harley noticed
00:30:12but I mean
00:30:14you were I think peak Sportster sales
00:30:16probably around 06 as the
00:30:18market was very
00:30:20vigorous at that time
00:30:22prior to the crash
00:30:2406 probably the best model year
00:30:26I think they did 72,000 Sportsters in one year
00:30:2872,000
00:30:30Sportsters and again on no technical
00:30:32merit, I mean they're good motorcycles
00:30:34but they're not exceptionally
00:30:36good performing
00:30:38they sound how you want them to sound
00:30:40we're all conditioned
00:30:42to see the cases
00:30:44if you've grown up in America
00:30:47and even outside of America
00:30:49the image of the 45
00:30:51degree V-twin and the
00:30:53Sportster cases with the
00:30:55horn on the front
00:30:57and the parallel pushrod
00:30:59tubes
00:31:01it's a vision that's burned
00:31:03into your mind
00:31:05that's a motorcycle, that's what they look like
00:31:07this is American motorcycling anyways
00:31:09well when
00:31:11Harley built in
00:31:131936-37
00:31:15pioneered
00:31:17the E61
00:31:19E
00:31:21their overhead valve
00:31:23production bike, first one
00:31:25overhead
00:31:27valves nearly doubled
00:31:29the power
00:31:31they had terrible problems the first year
00:31:33with oil leakage and some things had to be
00:31:35corrected but that was
00:31:37the first big twin
00:31:39in the series that everyone
00:31:41memorizes the
00:31:43names of, starting with Knucklehead
00:31:45which was 61E
00:31:47and
00:31:49the
00:31:51fact that 61E
00:31:53has one
00:31:55camshaft with four lobes on it
00:31:57says something about
00:31:59the times, namely
00:32:01they just were on the recovery
00:32:03slope from the Great Depression
00:32:05are we going to give this thing
00:32:07four geared together cams
00:32:09making all those gears
00:32:11fastening the cams to them
00:32:13no way
00:32:15and if you look at the current
00:32:17big twin, you will see
00:32:19that it has one
00:32:21camshaft with four lobes
00:32:23same economic pressure
00:32:25the reason those successful
00:32:27Yamahas that Mark talked about
00:32:29have two cylinders
00:32:31is the reason
00:32:33why the current
00:32:35big twin has a single camshaft
00:32:37with four lobes, namely
00:32:39cost control
00:32:41reduced parts count
00:32:43yes, the better
00:32:45the job we can do
00:32:47at cost control
00:32:49the more people can
00:32:51aspire to own
00:32:53this motorcycle
00:32:55if they look at the
00:32:57price tag
00:32:59it's like
00:33:01the Ducati
00:33:03accessory book
00:33:05forget it
00:33:07but
00:33:09people are
00:33:11powerfully attracted
00:33:13to Harleys
00:33:15the husband of our local librarian
00:33:17is a fish biologist
00:33:19and
00:33:21he's not a motorcyclist
00:33:23but he says
00:33:25if I were going to have a motorcycle
00:33:27I'd want
00:33:29a Harley
00:33:31and I think that's tremendous
00:33:33that's quite an accomplishment
00:33:35and that is why
00:33:37if you mess
00:33:39with the character of your product
00:33:41you'd better be pretty sure
00:33:43you're not making a mistake
00:33:45because character
00:33:47is everything
00:33:53so
00:33:55they've
00:33:57replaced Sportster with
00:33:59a more modern engine
00:34:01and it looks entirely different
00:34:03it doesn't
00:34:05look all that like an engine
00:34:07it looks like a kind of
00:34:09something that was made out of boombox
00:34:11parts
00:34:13but it works well
00:34:15oh it's a great engine
00:34:17the revolution max
00:34:19this is as good a time as any
00:34:21you basically
00:34:23Harley
00:34:25decided to get into
00:34:27the adventure bike market
00:34:29and they were looking to
00:34:32air cooled
00:34:34they were liquid cooling
00:34:36the big twins
00:34:38looking to expand market share
00:34:40they won in cruisers
00:34:42they put everybody else out of business
00:34:44the big twin
00:34:46basically put everybody out of the big cruiser business
00:34:48I mean
00:34:50good margins
00:34:52and everybody wants a bagger
00:34:54they've done a wonderful technical job
00:34:56of evolving that motorcycle
00:34:58and making it really really good
00:35:00you know it really
00:35:02you sat on top
00:35:04of one of those
00:35:06and the customer who wanted it
00:35:08sat on top of that looking over the headlight
00:35:10and there was no place else
00:35:12they would want to be
00:35:14except going up up up
00:35:16with that sound
00:35:18and
00:35:20you know revolution max
00:35:22they wanted to be in adventure bikes
00:35:24they announced the broncs
00:35:26and
00:35:28eventually became the sportster
00:35:30and
00:35:32I think they had to make an economic
00:35:34decision because
00:35:36you know
00:35:38they'd consolidated
00:35:40the cruisers so they used to have
00:35:42for years they were telling us
00:35:44dyna is different than soft tail
00:35:46and then
00:35:48as you would I mean big cruisers
00:35:50is a declining market
00:35:52it wasn't going up like in the 90's
00:35:54going crazy
00:35:56and so it made sense to consolidate those
00:35:58they picked soft tail
00:36:00called it soft tail
00:36:02and dyna models
00:36:04got pushed into that platform
00:36:06and they're good
00:36:08the lowrider s is good
00:36:10I still think the proportions of the dyna
00:36:12like the 2016 lowrider s
00:36:14I personally prefer those
00:36:16I like the dyna bounce
00:36:18they were rubber mount
00:36:20but anyway economically it made sense
00:36:22to consolidate to one line
00:36:24soft tails
00:36:26big cruisers that
00:36:28touring
00:36:30and then they have to decide
00:36:32well we're going to make adventure bikes
00:36:34and we're going to spend the money to develop
00:36:36a new engine platform
00:36:38so we have to amortize
00:36:40that over many models
00:36:42you can't just build one engine
00:36:44I mean I guess you could
00:36:46but one engine one platform
00:36:48no you got to do something with it
00:36:50to get volume out of it
00:36:52you know a sportster
00:36:54replacement
00:36:56and then
00:36:58the adventure bike
00:37:00the broncs they just sort of quietly
00:37:02scattered that to the side
00:37:04didn't really go through with it
00:37:06the adventure bike
00:37:08has been doing well
00:37:10pretty well but again you know
00:37:12you're entering
00:37:14even though adventure is incredibly popular
00:37:16it isn't
00:37:18like fundamental
00:37:20cultural engine
00:37:22type stuff for the American psyche
00:37:24there's a good market
00:37:26but I think they're around
00:37:2810,000 units a year
00:37:30for
00:37:32Pan America
00:37:34that's okay but it's not a big
00:37:36smash hit you know when you're doing
00:37:3860,000 baggers
00:37:40that's how
00:37:42sportsters started out
00:37:44they sold
00:37:46a couple of thousand the first year
00:37:48and
00:37:50as people
00:37:52made friends with it
00:37:54and AMF
00:37:56put the boot
00:37:58in on promotion
00:38:00the sales
00:38:02went right up
00:38:04from 1970's big
00:38:06sales after 1970
00:38:08and
00:38:10so it's hard to say what will happen
00:38:12with the new engines
00:38:14yeah I mean
00:38:16so basically
00:38:18to finish the thought
00:38:20they just didn't have the capacity
00:38:22to say like okay we're gonna do
00:38:24this new 60 degree liquid cooled
00:38:26v-twin and we'll make
00:38:28three lines basically
00:38:30a cruiser line, a naked bike line
00:38:32and an adventure line
00:38:34it's modular they can change the displacement
00:38:36relatively easily
00:38:38it's variable valve timing, it's got all the new technology
00:38:40but they didn't have the capacity
00:38:42to continue with
00:38:45the new version of the sportster engine
00:38:47and my personal
00:38:49I would have probably fought to the death
00:38:51to say like no what we need to retain
00:38:53is as Suzuki did with the Hayabusa
00:38:55don't move the intake ports
00:38:57and don't move the exhaust ports
00:38:59so that the stuff will still
00:39:01bolt up
00:39:03but do change the engine, make the engine
00:39:05modern and modularish
00:39:07like easy to change flywheel
00:39:09inertia
00:39:11all of that, move the cams up
00:39:13like my mom did back in the day
00:39:15go the corvette performance route
00:39:17like let's make sportster
00:39:19into the corvette
00:39:21pushrod thing of motorcycles
00:39:23make your cruisers
00:39:25do all that, counterbalance it
00:39:27rigid mount it, make it lighter
00:39:29move the camshafts up
00:39:31shorten the pushrods
00:39:33four valves, sure, why not
00:39:35do all the things
00:39:37to make it meet emissions
00:39:39and then keep your potato potato
00:39:41and your 45 and your cooling fins
00:39:43with strategic liquid cooling
00:39:45as required based on
00:39:47the model and then I think
00:39:49that's what I would have fought for if I had been
00:39:51they didn't ask me but
00:39:53it's easy to quarterback
00:39:55from over here on this podcast
00:39:57but that's what I would have fought for
00:39:59because
00:40:01the new sportster, liquid cooled sportster
00:40:03is a pretty nice motorcycle
00:40:05but if you look at the market
00:40:07they came out with a 60 degree
00:40:09liquid cooled B twin
00:40:11cruiser type motorcycle
00:40:13that
00:40:15is an Indian in a sense
00:40:17right, like you took your identity
00:40:19and you made it
00:40:21there's great reasons to do that
00:40:23but
00:40:25this isn't party in the engineering house
00:40:27you know, like this is
00:40:29marketing
00:40:31this is campfire, this is
00:40:33feeling good around the campfire
00:40:35having fun, it's not
00:40:37I have 28%
00:40:39more horsepower and my frame rigidity
00:40:41is, you know, the torsional rigidity is up
00:40:436%, like that's all great
00:40:45you absolutely must focus on that
00:40:47make the wheels lighter, make the motorcycle
00:40:49lighter, be efficient
00:40:51forge the parts
00:40:53but at the end of the day
00:40:55you're just trying to service
00:40:57that feeling of going down
00:40:59the road and
00:41:01the evocation of emotion
00:41:03when you look at that motorcycle
00:41:05like that's the thing
00:41:07and the new Sportster, again, neat design
00:41:09and good performing
00:41:11but
00:41:13it isn't connecting
00:41:15to the Sportster
00:41:17mythology
00:41:19so you have this thing that's existed since
00:41:2157 and it's looked
00:41:23kind of the same
00:41:25the entire time
00:41:27lots of evolution
00:41:29it just worked better and better
00:41:31and then they put 5 speeds on it
00:41:33oh my gosh
00:41:35it's just
00:41:37it's crazy
00:41:39but they just didn't have the capacity
00:41:41they couldn't add a new Sportster
00:41:43engine and do
00:41:45all the other things they were doing
00:41:47even a company like
00:41:49Harley doing sort of $5 billion
00:41:51for a long time
00:41:53every year
00:41:55you've got to work with the resources you have
00:41:57and make decisions
00:41:59and
00:42:01live with the results
00:42:03you have to control costs at all times
00:42:05which is why no more
00:42:07Kansas City
00:42:13and they got rid of MV
00:42:15which they owned for a while
00:42:17they got rid of Buell
00:42:19because they were
00:42:21saying in this economic climate
00:42:23we must
00:42:25service our core business
00:42:27and
00:42:30that meant
00:42:32finding a way
00:42:34just like they did after
00:42:361929 between the wars
00:42:38move ahead
00:42:40but with
00:42:42financial caution
00:42:44and
00:42:46that's what they've done
00:42:48now
00:42:50it may be that
00:42:52they have
00:42:54marketing studies and
00:42:56focus group information
00:42:58that suggest that fewer
00:43:00potential
00:43:02Sportster buyers
00:43:04faces light
00:43:06up when they see a Sportster
00:43:08it
00:43:10may be that
00:43:12it is changing to more like
00:43:14well
00:43:16let me see that spec sheet
00:43:18or
00:43:20I don't like the sound
00:43:22or any other thing
00:43:24are things changing in that way
00:43:26you can't afford to just say
00:43:28goodbye Sportster in
00:43:302021
00:43:32the pressures were there
00:43:34the year before
00:43:36Sportster no longer passed
00:43:38European
00:43:40emissions
00:43:42so that tells you something
00:43:44yeah that was an ongoing battle
00:43:46with that
00:43:48version of the engine
00:43:50was getting it through
00:43:52they were spending a lot of
00:43:54money on the new platform
00:43:56and to do it with the new motor
00:43:58you have
00:44:00it's liquid cooled
00:44:02it's 100%
00:44:04it's not trying to be anything other than what it is
00:44:06it isn't trying to preserve
00:44:08the simplicity
00:44:10of air cooling
00:44:12it's just like
00:44:14let's get her through
00:44:16raise the rings
00:44:18do all the little tricks we have
00:44:20look at that
00:44:22we can have bottom end
00:44:24and top end
00:44:26yep
00:44:28well
00:44:30this business of
00:44:32devising
00:44:34new product
00:44:36is a fascinating
00:44:38thing because it has to take
00:44:40all these criteria
00:44:42into consideration
00:44:44cost control
00:44:46product reception
00:44:48by the public
00:44:50if they don't recognize it they won't buy it
00:44:52massive tension
00:44:54you have product planning
00:44:56and engineering
00:44:58people punching it up
00:45:00over half a cent
00:45:02for some feature
00:45:04it's definitely intense and complicated
00:45:06you can do
00:45:08all the studies
00:45:10that you want
00:45:14market data
00:45:16and demographic data
00:45:18useful and very important
00:45:20but at the end of the road
00:45:22when you're really sitting down to
00:45:24design a motorcycle
00:45:26all it has to be is cool
00:45:28and the magic is making it cool
00:45:30Lowrider S
00:45:32Lowrider S was not
00:45:34you know
00:45:36that wasn't a
00:45:38Lowrider S when they were
00:45:40sunsetting Dinah
00:45:42they were making that bike like the
00:45:44swan song for Dinah
00:45:46knowing already that they were going to
00:45:48discontinue it
00:45:50and they just took a lot of cool parts
00:45:52and got some colors
00:45:54together
00:45:56they did the color palette with that kind of bronzy gold
00:45:58paint and the black
00:46:00I mean it was a knockout bike
00:46:02it was
00:46:04so rich
00:46:06in personality and it
00:46:08evoked exactly what the Dinah
00:46:10customer had in their mind
00:46:12and they didn't know it
00:46:15I think the
00:46:17job of product planning is
00:46:19understanding
00:46:21what the customer wants before they want it
00:46:23I think that's if you're really doing it well
00:46:25you're coming out
00:46:27with a product where somebody goes like
00:46:29oh, it's like a new song
00:46:31that does something different with
00:46:33beat, rhythm
00:46:35whatever and it's catchy
00:46:37right?
00:46:39that's the creative aspect of it
00:46:41use all the research, do all that stuff
00:46:43the artistry is in
00:46:45predicting what the customer wants
00:46:47before the customer even could articulate it
00:46:49because if you ask somebody
00:46:51they don't really know
00:46:53what they want next
00:46:55they may know in their heart
00:46:57but they can't say it
00:46:59you're trying to articulate it
00:47:01how would you articulate
00:47:03what Sportster is?
00:47:05we've been trying for an hour here
00:47:07I mean
00:47:09imagine asking
00:47:11no, no
00:47:15do you want a motorcycle that weighs
00:47:17430 pounds or 485 pounds?
00:47:21oh, I want 430 pounds
00:47:23but it's going to be 480
00:47:25and it's going to sell a million units
00:47:27or whatever
00:47:31do you want 130 horsepower?
00:47:33oh, heck yeah, I want more horsepower
00:47:35no, can't have it
00:47:37it's going to be 60
00:47:39if you wrote
00:47:41down and asked people
00:47:43if they wanted a Sportster
00:47:45they would say no
00:47:47if you spec sheeted it
00:47:49and just said here you go
00:47:51they would say
00:47:53they didn't want it
00:47:55except they did
00:47:57I'm remembering an advertisement
00:47:59a magazine advertisement
00:48:01that showed
00:48:03a dark
00:48:05manufacturing building
00:48:07in the background
00:48:09light is coming from street lamps
00:48:11there's a Sportster
00:48:13parked
00:48:15that's it
00:48:17where's the rider?
00:48:19in the building?
00:48:21about to be set free
00:48:23what is the
00:48:25the building is dark
00:48:27which implies
00:48:29that says something too
00:48:31something's going on
00:48:33it obviously
00:48:35has my interest
00:48:37buy one
00:48:39and answer the question
00:48:41yourself
00:48:43I think that kind of
00:48:45enigmatic advertising
00:48:47is just wonderful
00:48:49because it recognizes
00:48:51that riding a motorcycle
00:48:53is an animal
00:48:55experience
00:48:57and doesn't articulate well
00:48:59once
00:49:01somebody gets it right though
00:49:03it's right
00:49:05and with Sportster it stayed right
00:49:07from 1957
00:49:09to
00:49:112021
00:49:13that's a good career
00:49:15for a vehicle
00:49:19it's also true
00:49:21about the customer changing
00:49:23we don't know what
00:49:25Harley looked at
00:49:27or what any manufacturer
00:49:29in terms of research
00:49:31electric
00:49:33what they call
00:49:35the TAM
00:49:37is minuscule
00:49:39in the United States
00:49:41but
00:49:43it's growing
00:49:45particularly at the bottom end
00:49:47where you have
00:49:49little electric motorcycle
00:49:51hybrid
00:49:53electric mountain bikes
00:49:55bicycles without pedals
00:49:57that kind of thing
00:49:59I believe this is good
00:50:01for the motorcycle market
00:50:03because they're cheap
00:50:05people can afford them
00:50:07and they give the experience
00:50:09of turning a throttle
00:50:11it gets you on two wheels
00:50:13we have seen
00:50:15little crackdowns
00:50:17in legislation
00:50:19because people are riding
00:50:21a lot of these things
00:50:23without license plates
00:50:25or licenses
00:50:28point of all this being
00:50:30the total addressable market
00:50:32for electrics is relatively small
00:50:34in the United States
00:50:36but
00:50:38what manufacturers are seeing
00:50:40is there is enthusiasm
00:50:42there and a lot of those people
00:50:44are not traditional enthusiasts
00:50:48and so
00:50:50all the racket
00:50:52I think back to the transition
00:50:54of two strokes and four strokes
00:50:56a BSA
00:50:58gold star
00:51:00in 1967
00:51:02just a rattling low power
00:51:04compared to a
00:51:06TZ350
00:51:08or a Manx
00:51:10noisy
00:51:12spewing oil
00:51:14it was the sound of the past
00:51:16at that time
00:51:18two strokes were the sound of the powerful future
00:51:20light, simple
00:51:22time to cut wood
00:51:24that was a time
00:51:26that was a transition
00:51:28of one technology to another
00:51:30and a completely different
00:51:32kind of thinking
00:51:34the two stroke people
00:51:36were pirates coming in
00:51:38and ruining everything
00:51:40and electrics
00:51:42could be similar
00:51:44we are seeing some progress
00:51:46in battery density
00:51:48the point is
00:51:50the customers
00:51:52certainly different and changing
00:51:54and maybe
00:51:56the Sportster's time
00:51:58was up
00:52:00sales had been going down
00:52:02but
00:52:04it's interesting
00:52:06being Harley is just
00:52:08what a challenge
00:52:10maybe people don't have
00:52:12attitude anymore
00:52:14that would be something
00:52:16but that's
00:52:18why I like that
00:52:20advertising page
00:52:22the motorcycle
00:52:24light from street lights
00:52:26a dark building behind
00:52:28manufacturing building
00:52:30what is the rider doing
00:52:32well
00:52:34you could find out
00:52:36yeah
00:52:38they souped the daylights out of those
00:52:40motors
00:52:42Don Tilley
00:52:44the late Don Tilley
00:52:46kept raising a
00:52:48impression on his Sportster based race
00:52:50engines
00:52:52until it would blow gaskets
00:52:54and then he would make the cylinder
00:52:56studs bigger
00:52:58and it would blow gaskets
00:53:00I heard one blow a gasket
00:53:02at Daytona
00:53:04and the motorcycle
00:53:06just rolls to a stop
00:53:08finally he got up to
00:53:10half inch
00:53:12cylinder studs
00:53:14he said
00:53:16I got it now
00:53:18I imagine
00:53:20of course
00:53:22Jim France has always
00:53:24wanted to see Harley's
00:53:26Triumph's
00:53:28BMW's in racing
00:53:30on his speedway
00:53:32and he's
00:53:34tried in a variety of ways
00:53:36to reach that
00:53:38and one year
00:53:40he had
00:53:42Buell come down
00:53:44with soup
00:53:46to the maximum
00:53:48Sportster powered
00:53:50things
00:53:52and
00:53:54they qualified 10th
00:53:56in the 600 class
00:53:58for which
00:54:00Jim France had
00:54:02found a way to make them
00:54:04legal
00:54:06and
00:54:08was that not a
00:54:101340
00:54:131340 yes
00:54:15which was a famous
00:54:17Pratt & Whitney radial engine
00:54:19was the 1340
00:54:21so it was no accident
00:54:23but that engine was
00:54:25bursting at the seams
00:54:27breaking this, cracking that
00:54:29they had it working hard
00:54:31they had all the parts
00:54:33working equally hard
00:54:35and
00:54:37in the end
00:54:39Eric Buell was saved
00:54:41from having to
00:54:43do that by being allowed
00:54:45to bring in a European engine
00:54:49but it was a
00:54:51glorious try
00:54:53that year at Daytona
00:54:55in the 600 class
00:54:57so
00:54:59and of course
00:55:01countless, countless people
00:55:03bought soup up parts
00:55:05for those motors
00:55:07more compression, bigger valves
00:55:09well that was what was cool
00:55:11with the 883
00:55:13you could buy yourself an 883
00:55:15and then just go ahead and put the
00:55:171200 cylinders and stuff
00:55:19on it when you felt like it
00:55:21not hard
00:55:23and exactly like what happened to the
00:55:25big radial aircraft engines that were
00:55:27air cooled, as the power went up
00:55:29so did the temperature
00:55:31until the cylinder
00:55:33heads began to warp
00:55:35so Sportster
00:55:371200
00:55:39finally had to oil cool
00:55:41the area
00:55:43around the exhaust valve seats
00:55:45in order to prevent them
00:55:47from warping and leaking
00:55:49that's just physics
00:55:51that's not a
00:55:53deviation from the way it ought to be
00:55:55it's
00:55:57keeping the features
00:55:59you enjoy by applying
00:56:01technology
00:56:03to prevent them from
00:56:05becoming obsolete
00:56:07XR 1200
00:56:09got the oil cooling
00:56:11treatment because it was
00:56:13pepped up pretty good
00:56:15I want to say we were at
00:56:1775, 79 horse
00:56:19something like that on that motor
00:56:21I was on the press launch for that
00:56:23and I asked one of the engine guys
00:56:25did you guys talk to Buell about this
00:56:27and boy
00:56:29foot and mouth moment for me
00:56:31there was a lot of tension between
00:56:33the Buell team and the Harley team
00:56:35and he said this engine has nothing
00:56:37to do with Buell
00:56:39I was like ok
00:56:41got it
00:56:43well just as there had been that big war
00:56:45between Steve Scheibe
00:56:47with the VR1000 superbike
00:56:49and Harley's engineering department
00:56:51the engineering department felt
00:56:53that racing should be under
00:56:55their control
00:56:57and Steve Scheibe who had come over
00:56:59from the Jack Roush organization
00:57:01was trying to fend off
00:57:03all of this
00:57:05engineering's territorial
00:57:07incursions
00:57:09and
00:57:11it was
00:57:13something that came
00:57:15and went
00:57:17a particularly beautiful
00:57:19sunset
00:57:21well I mean if you think about Harley
00:57:23to me Harley Davidson the brand
00:57:25is an entowment
00:57:27so when you
00:57:29when you go to work for Harley Davidson
00:57:31and you're truly
00:57:33you are a motorcycle enthusiast
00:57:35and you have been immersed in
00:57:37American motorcycling
00:57:39imagine the feelings that you would have
00:57:41if you were an engineer
00:57:43and then there's somebody coming in with a liquid cooled
00:57:4560 year EV twin superbike
00:57:47and well what does this mean
00:57:49and you know
00:57:51yeah
00:57:53it's our religion
00:57:55we defend our notions
00:57:58and thinking about
00:58:00how it should be
00:58:02and I think that's the challenge with Harley
00:58:04is that it is an endowment
00:58:06the brand is an endowment
00:58:08and all of the culture around it
00:58:10trying to
00:58:12unravel that
00:58:14and express that
00:58:16in things that take 5 to 10 years
00:58:18to plan and suppliers
00:58:20and
00:58:22you know
00:58:24it costs a lot to make new motorcycles
00:58:26to try and put all that together
00:58:28that's why it's such a beautiful challenge
00:58:30particularly for Harley
00:58:32There's an issue here that I want to
00:58:34speak about for a moment
00:58:36and that is the use of iron
00:58:38as a cylinder head and cylinder
00:58:40material
00:58:42Harley had
00:58:44a lot of experience with cast iron
00:58:46and
00:58:48the original 61E
00:58:50had an iron head
00:58:52and iron cylinders
00:58:54and the first sportster
00:58:56and for a long time thereafter
00:58:58and
00:59:00the advantages of iron are
00:59:02it's a
00:59:04well established casting technique
00:59:06casting iron
00:59:08was something that the railroads
00:59:10explored
00:59:12for years
00:59:14and
00:59:16you can seat valves directly on iron
00:59:18whereas with aluminum
00:59:20some special
00:59:22racing engines have seated valves
00:59:24on aluminum
00:59:26but you don't see it in production
00:59:28and
00:59:30it's a wonderful wear surface
00:59:32for cylinders
00:59:34which is why when
00:59:36iron gave way
00:59:38to aluminum for the fins
00:59:40the liner remained
00:59:42iron
00:59:44because it lasted
00:59:46and it could be rebored
00:59:48so when Harley
00:59:50after 1929
00:59:52played with
00:59:54the idea of aluminum
00:59:56overhead valve heads
00:59:58they ran into problems
01:00:00with gasket sealing
01:00:02now aluminum expands three times
01:00:04as much
01:00:06as iron for a given
01:00:08temperature change
01:00:10so that means it's yanking up on the
01:00:12head bolts tremendously
01:00:14I'm going to uproot these bolts
01:00:16and
01:00:18that increased
01:00:20bolt tension is crushing the daylights
01:00:22out of the gasket
01:00:24so that after a certain number of cycles
01:00:26of this, the gasket blows
01:00:28or
01:00:30the engine begins to leak oil
01:00:32out of the base gasket
01:00:34never heard of that
01:00:36never ever heard of that
01:00:38because think of the
01:00:40bolting force
01:00:42in the case of
01:00:44Don Tilley's race motor
01:00:46if it's half inch studs
01:00:48it's a lot of pressure
01:00:50four half inch
01:00:52studs?
01:00:54imagine the pulling force
01:00:56on the cases
01:00:58what do those threads have to be like
01:01:00the female in the case
01:01:02well
01:01:04when Evo came
01:01:06along
01:01:08instead of the cylinder being
01:01:10bolted to the crankcase
01:01:12and the head being bolted to the cylinder
01:01:14now there were long
01:01:16stretchy studs
01:01:18they were like springs
01:01:20compared with short base bolts
01:01:22or studs
01:01:24so that when you stacked
01:01:26aluminum parts on there
01:01:28cylinder and head
01:01:30and did up the nuts
01:01:32on the tops of those studs
01:01:34the gaskets
01:01:36were being loaded by
01:01:38springs
01:01:40of a nearly constant rate
01:01:42so that as the
01:01:44parts expanded
01:01:46the increase in pressure on the gaskets
01:01:48was not enough to kill them
01:01:50so that
01:01:52was one of the basic changes
01:01:54that was made
01:01:56in Evo was to switch
01:01:58from base bolted to
01:02:00studs holding the whole stack together
01:02:02studs that are long enough
01:02:04to have the elasticity
01:02:06to follow the expansion and contraction
01:02:08without giving up
01:02:11letting the ptooey
01:02:13gaskets blow out
01:02:15and the oily
01:02:17potential there
01:02:19so rather than tackle
01:02:21aluminum
01:02:23at the time that
01:02:25Sportster was designed
01:02:27the heads were
01:02:29and cylinders were iron
01:02:31a technology they knew
01:02:33could be made to work
01:02:35and wasn't going to cost
01:02:37them an arm and a leg
01:02:39to develop solutions for
01:02:41so
01:02:43eventually Sportster
01:02:45did cease to be
01:02:47iron head
01:02:49and had aluminum parts that could
01:02:51dissipate heat much better
01:02:53than the iron had done
01:02:55after all they make stoves out of iron
01:02:57and
01:02:59it was a big improvement
01:03:01but Harley took the time
01:03:03to study how to
01:03:05keep an engine sealed up
01:03:07with high expansion metal
01:03:09in place of low expansion metal
01:03:11so Harley are often criticized
01:03:13for
01:03:15being backward
01:03:17being overly conservative
01:03:19but I think a lot of their
01:03:21traditions originated
01:03:23in the depression when
01:03:25Indian
01:03:27in 1933
01:03:29sold 1600
01:03:31motorcycles
01:03:33they were going right out of business
01:03:35at that point
01:03:37Harley never got that low
01:03:39because they were playing
01:03:41the game like crazy
01:03:43cost control
01:03:45attractive performance
01:03:47what can we do
01:03:49with this flat head technology
01:03:51they were frantically working
01:03:53to solve the flat head problems
01:03:55even as they were talking about
01:03:57an overhead 750
01:03:59so they were
01:04:01just doing the two step like crazy
01:04:03trying to keep it
01:04:05together
01:04:07and in the process
01:04:09it made them look very conservative
01:04:11but they're still here
01:04:15so
01:04:17that conservatism
01:04:19and gaining experience
01:04:21with stuff before putting it into
01:04:23production
01:04:25saved them, whereas Indian
01:04:27who decided right after the war
01:04:29we're going to build a British
01:04:31they ended up
01:04:33making it so light
01:04:35that parts broke
01:04:37like cylinder heads
01:04:41how are you going to
01:04:43call back all the bikes you've sold
01:04:45and give them not only new engines
01:04:47but redesigned engines
01:04:49that won't break
01:04:51they didn't have the money
01:04:53so in 1953
01:04:55that was it for Indian
01:04:57yeah
01:04:59it's
01:05:01that decision
01:05:03you could see that
01:05:05we want to be the future
01:05:07we want to be lightweight and high performance
01:05:09and clearly parallel twins are happening
01:05:11but it's also a broken
01:05:13promise to your customer
01:05:15compounded by the unreliability
01:05:17yeah
01:05:19no no wait
01:05:21what happened to that thing with the flat heads
01:05:23and the distinctive exhaust angle
01:05:25and all that
01:05:27and the big fenders
01:05:29that my dad and my uncle rode
01:05:31well that's the thing
01:05:33it's burned in
01:05:35that was victory's poor lot in life
01:05:37they were good motorcycles
01:05:39but they weren't old enough
01:05:41for you to have a photograph of your grandpa
01:05:43sitting on one
01:05:45it wasn't burned into your brain
01:05:47as marketeers say
01:05:49it had no narrative
01:05:51you've got to create
01:05:53a story
01:05:56that your customer wants to be
01:05:58a character in
01:06:00well I have a picture of my grandfather
01:06:02on a 45 I think
01:06:04could have been a JD but it's a 29
01:06:06twin headlight
01:06:08it's a head on shot
01:06:10it's the only photograph I have of him
01:06:12we used to have his gear
01:06:14unfortunately it sat in the basement
01:06:16in New York
01:06:18and it was rotting apart
01:06:20but we had his gear
01:06:22and we have that photograph
01:06:24it was a Monkama
01:06:26for a ride
01:06:28she was upset about that
01:06:30but that was kind of
01:06:32that's how he was
01:06:34yeah
01:06:36attitude
01:06:38stance
01:06:40some kind of defiance
01:06:42a way of saying no to
01:06:44something
01:06:46definitely
01:06:48a way of saying
01:06:50I'm here
01:06:52I'm here
01:06:54I'm not them
01:06:56I'm me
01:06:58yeah
01:07:00and there is something to the 45
01:07:02I have to admit
01:07:04the cadence of the engine
01:07:06even the vibey ones
01:07:08this is why all these parallel twins
01:07:10now have 270 crankshafts
01:07:12because it gives them that
01:07:14syncopated exhaust sound
01:07:16people like it
01:07:18it works
01:07:20also
01:07:22a couple years ago I rode
01:07:24only an electric for about a month
01:07:26month plus I rode a zero
01:07:28and honestly after a while
01:07:30you're like what the hell is all this racket about
01:07:32idle
01:07:34it has to idle
01:07:36all the quirks
01:07:38all the things that make riding a motorcycle challenging
01:07:40are
01:07:42dealing with the quirks of having
01:07:44an engine that has to idle
01:07:46yep
01:07:48a clutch
01:07:50transmission
01:07:52it's all nonsense
01:07:54we love it
01:07:56I love shifting gears
01:07:58I love using a clutch
01:08:00it's what we're accustomed to
01:08:02it's what we're accustomed to
01:08:04maybe it was time to
01:08:06move on
01:08:08I still lament the passing of the pushrod
01:08:10air cooled sportster
01:08:12I love everything that grew up around it
01:08:14all the choppers
01:08:16low bikes
01:08:18skinny bikes
01:08:20tall bikes
01:08:22so many different attitudes
01:08:24so many different stances
01:08:26a miracle of aftermarket
01:08:28it's just
01:08:30what a sensation
01:08:32now the sales are
01:08:34I went to look up
01:08:36current sportster
01:08:38sales volume
01:08:40but it's lumped in
01:08:42it used to be sportster
01:08:44the sales, Harley would publish those
01:08:46on the website
01:08:48now it's lumped in
01:08:50with 350's and 500's
01:08:52so you're really not sure
01:08:54what sportster on it's own
01:08:56is doing, whereas before you kind of could
01:08:58but they changed that
01:09:00you can't mine the number out
01:09:02the numbers aren't huge
01:09:04so we'll see
01:09:06where it goes
01:09:08certainly a great engine
01:09:10the new one, the 60 degree
01:09:12I kind of wish, if they had the bandwidth
01:09:14I wish they would have called the cruiser
01:09:16Bronx
01:09:18and then had a sportster
01:09:20pushrod sportster
01:09:22to go along with it, I think that would have been really
01:09:26in an ideal world
01:09:28you could forge in to liquid cooling
01:09:30and all that high performance
01:09:32that you got from there and addressing that
01:09:34customer that you may not be getting
01:09:36the MT07 type customer
01:09:38and continuing
01:09:41your cultural dominance
01:09:43you know
01:09:45we'll never know
01:09:47we have to
01:09:49take note of the fact that
01:09:51pro stock
01:09:53drag racing
01:09:55found that the way to make
01:09:57pushrod valve trains
01:09:59work reliably at 9,000
01:10:01RPM, 10,000 RPM
01:10:03was to make the parts
01:10:05really stiff
01:10:07so that
01:10:09the engine couldn't make them sing
01:10:11couldn't get them vibrating
01:10:13pushrods weren't bow stringing from side
01:10:15to side and rocker arms kind of
01:10:17twisting and untwisting
01:10:19when they made everything really stiff
01:10:21with
01:10:231,200 pounds of valve spring pressure
01:10:25I was going to say the spring is also stiff
01:10:29which makes
01:10:31which is the reason why those big cams
01:10:33are made now with great wide lobes
01:10:35that
01:10:37shows that you could do more
01:10:39with
01:10:41pushrods and rockers because it has
01:10:43been done
01:10:45but whether you want to pay for it
01:10:47that was the question that
01:10:49wiped out the two stroke
01:10:51yes they can be cleaned up
01:10:53to meet EPA but do you want
01:10:55the bill?
01:10:57Yeah it's a big job and if you look at the
01:10:59V8 aftermarket you know all the comp
01:11:01cams and you know I would love
01:11:03to talk to Billy Godbolt who works for
01:11:05comp because of all the
01:11:07cam profiles that they're designing and everything
01:11:09that they're doing to increase
01:11:11pushrod you know American
01:11:13V8 performance and take the RPM
01:11:15into astronomical levels you know
01:11:179,000 RPM
01:11:19on an American V8 what?
01:11:21You know it's really
01:11:23it's really cool that would have been
01:11:25my first call Billy
01:11:27hey Billy we want a hot rod sports or
01:11:29fast emissions etc
01:11:314 cams
01:11:33man imagine
01:11:35VVT what could we do there
01:11:37yep
01:11:39alright well that's it for Sportster
01:11:41folks
01:11:43hope you enjoyed
01:11:45the program we'll see you in the comments
01:11:47love reading them
01:11:49if you haven't
01:11:51listened to some of the other podcasts
01:11:53we have
01:11:55we've surpassed episode 60
01:11:57I'm sure of it we're just
01:11:59going to keep this going as long as we can
01:12:01enjoy having your company
01:12:03and
01:12:05always enjoy talking to you Kevin
01:12:07thanks for listening folks
01:12:09catch you next time
01:12:11you bet