In this edition of our weekly talk show, our panel discusses efforts to ramp-up European defense, the escalating trade war with Trump's America and efforts of the European Union to strengthen women's rights.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Hello and welcome to Brussels, my love, our weekly talk show from the heart of Europe
00:18where we break down the ups and downs of EU policymaking.
00:21This week from the European Parliament in Strasbourg.
00:24I'm Stefan Grobe, thanks for tuning in.
00:27Coming up this week, Europe needs to be able to defend itself against Russia with or without
00:33the United States.
00:34That's the consensus in Brussels in light of Donald Trump's increasing alignment
00:38with the Kremlin.
00:40The EU reacted with proposals for massive defence spending programs worth 800 billion
00:46euros.
00:47Other countries, like the United Kingdom, Canada and Turkey, are part of the process
00:51too.
00:52Are Europeans ready for a new geopolitical reality?
00:58Trump's long-term vision of replacing taxes with tariffs has already caused nervousness
01:03among consumers and among investors, who hate nothing more than uncertainty.
01:08Yet Washington keeps punishing its major trading partners, Canada and Mexico, only to grant
01:14deferrals or exemptions the next morning.
01:17Meanwhile, the EU hit back at Trump's imposed 25% global steel and aluminum tariffs, announcing
01:24retaliation.
01:26Can a trade war still be avoided?
01:28A lot of tough questions for our guests today.
01:31All three of them are members of the European Parliament.
01:34And here they are.
01:35Pekka Toveri from the European People's Party from Finland.
01:39Lee Andersson from the Left Group, also from Finland.
01:42And Krzysztof Szmyszek from the Socialists and Democrats from Poland.
01:47Welcome to all of you.
01:50But before we get started, let's take a look at what was just unthinkable for generations
01:55on both sides of the Atlantic, the European defense without the United States.
02:05When the Berlin Wall came down, Europe was jibilant.
02:09It symbolized the end of the Cold War and the beginning of chronic underinvestment in
02:14defense.
02:20Many European countries stopped mandatory military service and reduced arsenals and
02:25troop strength.
02:26The gaps were filled by 100,000 U.S. troops and nuclear weapons under the NATO umbrella.
02:33That era seems to be coming to an end.
02:41Trump's dizzying changes to the postwar order leaves European leaders scrambling to reorganize
02:46Europe's own defense, no matter the hefty price tag.
02:51The aim is twofold, to continue to stand shoulder to shoulder with Ukraine and to be ready for
02:59the moment that may or may not come, the moment America turns its back on Europe completely.
03:12Is Europe finally waking up and smelling the coffee brewing in Washington and Moscow?
03:21So let's say Europe is smelling the coffee, Pekka, but is it ready to drink it?
03:27I'm pretty sure that they are, that the awareness has come that something has broken in the
03:32transatlantic link.
03:35I firmly believe that we will have some kind of relationship in the United States also
03:40in the future.
03:41We had it for 75 years.
03:44After the next presidential election, we're probably going to return to something more
03:47normal.
03:48But I think that something has been broken so that Europe doesn't trust the Americans
03:52the way we used to trust anymore.
03:54And that means that we have to be more stronger, more independent in the future.
03:58Yeah.
03:59Lee, you're also from Finland.
04:00Do you share your countryman's point of view here?
04:03I do.
04:04In this regard, I do.
04:05I absolutely think that Europe should be ready and able to stand on its own feet.
04:10If we talk about security, if we talk about energy or if we talk about digital economy,
04:17so if you want to talk about sovereignty for Europe, we must also remember that security
04:21is not only military defense.
04:24It is a larger concept.
04:26So reducing dependencies on the US, I think, should be a strategic goal for the EU.
04:32As long as we remember that it does not only mean defense.
04:35It also means other things, other tools that we need to work with.
04:39Krzysztof, these close military and economic ties between the United States and Europe
04:46are unparalleled in modern history.
04:48Can it be easily replaced?
04:50Well, this kind of situation is not easy.
04:53Never it's easy.
04:54So, I mean, we all feel and we all sense out that something has changed, not only something,
05:04a lot of things has changed after Trump took over the rules.
05:09And you know what?
05:10I mean, we are a third economy of the world.
05:14European Union has 500 million people living here.
05:18And we should look mostly at ourselves, at our capabilities, how to strengthen ourselves,
05:26how to invest our money into our infrastructure.
05:31Don't look around, you know, who can help us.
05:33Of course, the alliances are extremely important.
05:38And most of the European Union countries are members of NATO.
05:42US is a member of NATO as well.
05:46So we need to do most to maintain good relations with the US.
05:53But we see that the only thing that we can be certain of is that Trump administration
05:59is totally uncertain.
06:02So that is why I really, I'm really happy that the European Parliament, European institutions
06:07are so much now investing in our infrastructure.
06:13And we are looking at ourselves.
06:15What military advantage does Trump get by sidelining NATO in order to make potentially
06:23big, big projects with Russia?
06:27I think the problem is that Trump is not very interested in NATO.
06:30He's not very interested in multilateralism at all.
06:32I think he looks at himself as this great leader of a global military superpower.
06:39And when you say that the US is uncertain, I would say that it seems to me that Trump
06:43is pretty certain about where his new alliances are.
06:47He's been I mean, he has been realigning US policy to be aligned with the Kremlin and
06:53the policies of Putin.
06:55So I think the goal for Europe should be for us to be able to act independently, whether
07:00it is a new European security architecture within the realm of the EU or this coalition
07:05of the willing or within NATO, to be able to act autonomously without the US.
07:12Because clearly, Europe cannot trust Trump defending Europe without the US.
07:16Is it doable?
07:17Is it desirable?
07:18I'd say that just today, it's not very doable.
07:23You know, our problem is that we have we have more military and more soldiers than
07:29Russia have.
07:30We have more tanks.
07:31We have more fighters.
07:32We have much more maritime power and naval power.
07:35But the command and control, intelligence, long range engagement capability, strategic
07:41airlift, strategic air refueling, all these joint capabilities are concentrated on the
07:46United States hands.
07:47So without the United States today, we would have if we would go to war without the United
07:52States, we would have two million soldiers running around in Europe, which we don't have
07:56proper capabilities to give them intel so that we know what we need to do and we don't
08:01have command and control to control them.
08:04And that's our biggest problem.
08:06And what we need to build now is the joint capabilities so that we can, as Lee said,
08:11to do it independently without the United States, if needed.
08:14Of course, if we have a choice, I would go to if there would be a military confrontation,
08:19I would go with the United States if possible.
08:20I read somewhere a military expert saying that Europe could, as of today, not defeat
08:31the Russians if they attack us, but they can barely hold them at the border for two, maybe
08:35three weeks.
08:36And that's it.
08:37I totally disagree.
08:38Well, that is why we we as Europe, as European Union, we that is why we should be so much
08:45focused on supporting Ukraine.
08:48We all know what's going on at the border of the European Union.
08:52And Ukraine is defending not only themselves, but also European Union, also European values.
09:02So that is why a crucial thing is first to provide as much assistance to Ukraine as possible,
09:11to organise a network of allies around Ukraine, global leaders around Ukraine, to have Ukraine
09:20independent and safe.
09:22Ukraine is kind of buffer zone between Russia and European Union.
09:26That is why the priority number one is to mobilise European Union around Ukraine.
09:32I'm not sure they like to hear that, but you were, let me go to Pekka first and then Lee.
09:38I'm a little bit tired of this Russians are coming, Russians are coming thing.
09:43You know, Russia can threat us with what, you know, 90 percent of the Russian army is
09:49tied up in Ukraine, getting weaker every day.
09:52The air force is a shadow of the European air forces.
09:57The naval power, well, they were beaten in Black Sea with the country, we don't have
10:01a navy.
10:02Russia is not an existential military threat to Europe today and not in five years time
10:08if we do even half of what we've been, which we are planning to do.
10:12They have nuclear weapons, that's a real threat, but otherwise the conventional military power
10:16Five years would take us just after Trump's term, right?
10:20I was also going to say that I think these kinds of comments are a bit weird taking into
10:24consideration that the Ukrainians have been able to keep their ground for three years
10:29already, saying that Europe could not hold out for more than a week or two.
10:33So I don't agree with that statement.
10:35But if we look at what's going to happen in the next five years, for example, I think
10:39that one thing the EU should do now is to say that we will not direct any more EU member
10:45state funding for the US arms industry in a situation where Trump so clearly signals
10:51that he is not interested in European security.
10:54So let's redirect all the funding that has gone.
10:57And we know it depends a bit on different estimates, but more than half of EU member
11:03states public procurement in defence has gone to US.
11:07So this money we should redirect into Europe to strengthen our own capabilities.
11:11We've asked the question about Europe's defence capabilities to Stephen Everts, director of
11:17the EU Institute for Security Studies, and he has a very clear idea about it.
11:22Take a listen.
11:23Of course, Europe can defend itself.
11:25There's nothing wrong with us genetically that we are incapable of doing so.
11:30But it requires a whole rethinking and reorganization about how we defend ourselves.
11:36There's this saying, the best moment to plant a tree was 20 years ago.
11:42The second best moment is today.
11:45And in the field of defence is a little bit the same.
11:47Of course, we are very dependent in some areas on America, on missile defence, on intelligence,
11:53on satellites, on communications.
11:55There are real dependencies.
11:56But we can also address these.
11:58There are also European programs that we now need to invest in, scale up.
12:03We need a crash program to address those vulnerabilities urgently.
12:06And I think we can get Europe in the position to really defend itself without America within
12:11two to three years.
12:12It's as much a question of manpower as it is about willpower.
12:15All right.
12:16It's as much about manpower as it is about willpower.
12:20Do you agree?
12:21Well, I'm definitely a big fan of mobilizing ourselves.
12:25And I fully agree with Lee, who said that we should stream the money into certain areas
12:34of production or infrastructure.
12:36And just to give you an example, cyber, cyber securities of utmost importance.
12:42My country, Poland, experiences 60,000 cyber attacks per year, mostly coming from Russia.
12:52Last week, one of the biggest Polish hospitals was attacked by cyber criminals.
13:00That shows that, I mean, we here in Europe, we are smart enough to build our systems,
13:06intelligence systems to secure our people, our critical infrastructure against this newest
13:13weapon, which is cyber attacks.
13:16This is a very good point, because I think what we've seen also during the last years
13:19is that energy can be used as a weapon.
13:22We also have digital threats that we need to be prepared for.
13:25And we also need to take care of our societal cohesion.
13:29And I think this is my kind of biggest worry also, when we look at the plans of the commission
13:34now, for example, they are changing the fiscal rules regarding deficits to enable more investment
13:40in defense.
13:41I understand that.
13:43But we also have other needs that are linked, for example, to the digital economy or to
13:49reducing our energy dependencies, both in Russia, because Europe is still buying many
13:54European countries fossil energy from Russia, but also from the US, actually, for Europe
13:59to become more strategically autonomous in the whole energy sector.
14:04So I absolutely think that the commission should introduce the same possibility for
14:10more investment also when we talk about energy, the digital economy and, for example, education.
14:16That's also a part of how we strengthen our preparedness.
14:18Just one sentence.
14:19I mean, I fully agree with Ili.
14:21I would add something which is very much promoted by my political group, Socialists and Democrats.
14:28All the spendings cannot be made at the cost of the social benefits and social policies
14:33that we developed for decades in European Union and who are known in the world as a
14:38welfare area.
14:40So because if we employ some tools that will be detrimental to the social policies and
14:48the welfare, the only group that will benefit from it will be populists, right wing populists.
14:54I also agree with this, actually, this is the second biggest problem or the second big
14:58problem, I would say, because it's the member state now that are supposed to do these big
15:03defense investments.
15:04And if we end up in a situation where they finance it by cutting welfare and social benefits,
15:10we will create a new security problem internally in Europe.
15:13Member states is a good question.
15:15Is anybody here who supports the idea of a European army?
15:20No.
15:21That would be a bad investment.
15:22But I have to say that and go back to what Liisa said in the beginning.
15:27I said that we have a good model in Finland because we talk about comprehensive security.
15:32We understand that the first thing you have to have is that every person has something
15:36to defend for, because it's about the will.
15:39If you don't have the will to defend, you can't do anything.
15:42We have to take care of everybody.
15:44Then we have to build a comprehensive security that secures the whole society, not only military,
15:50but the whole society, because Russia awaits war against the whole nation, not only against
15:55the military.
15:56And the military part is actually the easy part.
15:59We all have armies, we all have different interests, building up this bigger, we know
16:02how to do it.
16:03But to fight the Russian hybrid warfare against the polarization of our societies, information,
16:10cyber attacks, sabotage, that's the difficult part.
16:14Much more difficult.
16:15We're seeing right now, especially in Germany, a lot of creative ideas of funding the rearmament,
16:23if you like.
16:25One other idea is funding European defense, the war in Ukraine, and Ukrainian reconstruction
16:32by using Russian assets being frozen in European accounts, most of them in Belgium.
16:37The idea is not new, but nothing has happened so far, mainly because of legal problems.
16:42Now, we have asked Frédéric Daupagne, professor of public international law at the Catholic
16:47University of Louvain.
16:49Here's what he told us.
16:50Take a listen.
16:51Bottom line, the Russian sovereign assets are protected by immunity under international
16:56law.
16:57In principle, they cannot be confiscated.
16:59However, there are two potential justifications.
17:02First, you consider that Russia has committed an aggression and must bear the consequences,
17:09so we could use them to contribute to the reparation of damages.
17:14The second option is self-defense.
17:17In the shorter run, Ukraine needs military assistance.
17:22We would need to fill the gap following the suspension of the U.S. military assistance,
17:29so these assets could be used potentially to finance that military assistance.
17:35The EU took the decision to freeze the assets, so now the decision is upon the EU.
17:43So there is a possible legal avenue here by invoking Russian aggression and self-defense.
17:48Should Europe now just go ahead and do it?
17:50Oh, definitely.
17:51I really reject this long academic legal debate on whether we have the mandate to take this
17:57money and to use it for the purposes of Ukrainian support or not.
18:03I'm saying this as a lawyer and as a former Deputy Justice Minister.
18:06We need to act now.
18:08Ukraine is not going to wait for 20 more years to solve this legal issue.
18:14As the professor said, there are special circumstances that this money can work for
18:23the benefit of Ukrainian people who are defending themselves.
18:26And Russia is killing Ukrainian people.
18:29So what do you have to have more to justify this kind of movement?
18:36I think from a moral point of view, I don't think anybody agrees – disagrees, I mean.
18:41I think all Europeans, of course, think that the more right thing to do would be to use
18:46these funds.
18:47I don't think we should overlook the legal arguments because I think there is a risk
18:52if we say that because Russia acts contrary to international law, we can do the same.
18:57That's a bit of a slippery slope in international politics.
19:00So for me, I would say the most important thing is that they find the right legal basis.
19:06And then, of course, after that, I know that there's also some concerns regarding the
19:11effects on the Euro system, the financial system.
19:15But if these concerns, you know, if we're able to address them, then, of course, these
19:21funds should be used to support Ukraine.
19:22I mean, who would be hit by this confiscation, let's say, Putin and the oligarchs, right?
19:29So is that another reason to say, OK, these are war criminals.
19:34They should be in the Hague for their trial.
19:36That's why Russia is acting as it's acting because there's never been attribution for
19:40any of its attacks to its neighbours.
19:42Not in Chechnya, within Russia itself, not in Georgia, not in Syria, not in Ukraine,
19:49because they never paid the price.
19:50Now it's time for them to pay the price so that they learn to behave.
19:54Yeah, if you want.
19:55No, no, I'm just saying that there are some moments in the history that you have to act
20:01now and quickly.
20:04And you know, we are witnessing not only acts of crimes in Ukraine, but these are war crimes.
20:11These are, you know, genocide.
20:13So that has to be addressed somehow.
20:17And those people are in a desperate need of money, and not only the army, but also the
20:22people, the families who are affected by the Russian soldiers.
20:26So they deserve for this money, and the European Union has to be quick and decisive.
20:34I want to raise another point that has come up in all this debate on defence, and that
20:39is nuclear weapons.
20:41The prime minister of your country has sort of voiced interest.
20:48The French president has said, well, we might spread the nuclear umbrella of France across
20:55Central Europe.
20:57How do you feel about this?
20:59I think this is a very dangerous development.
21:01I do not wish for Europe to see an arms race in terms of nuclear weapons.
21:07That would constitute a danger to all of us.
21:09So even though, I mean, as we have discussed earlier, I do think it's important for Europe
21:14to enhance its own military capabilities, to do more together, to redirect the funding
21:20and so on.
21:21But nuclear weapons, I do not think we want to see an arms race in Europe regarding that.
21:27So there, personally, I would wish for Europe still to be a voice that underlines the dangers
21:34of those kinds of weapons, dangers that we also have been reminded of regarding the war
21:38in Ukraine.
21:40That's all we have time for.
21:41We're going to take a short break.
21:43And when we come back, a man on a mission to wreck transatlantic trade, Trump's crusade
21:49against the European Union.
21:51Don't go away.
22:00Welcome back to Brussels, my love.
22:01Our guests are still Lee Anderson, Christoph Schmischek and Pekka Toveri.
22:06Donald Trump hates the European Union.
22:09According to him, the bloc was only created to screw the United States.
22:13Now he's on a mission to seek payback for past decades during which the Europeans took
22:18advantage of America, as he believes it.
22:22This week, Trump slapped 25 percent global tariffs on steel and aluminum and threatens
22:27to escalate more.
22:29The EU responded in kind and announced a two stage retaliation covering 26 billion euros
22:35in EU exports.
22:37Is Europe prepared for an economic roller coaster that could end up in a global recession, Christoph?
22:44Well, I think that nobody's prepared for this kind of tariff wars.
22:49And tariff wars never work.
22:52They work only for the wealthiest.
22:54Tariff wars are detrimental to usual average regular people because of the higher costs
23:02of almost everything.
23:04I'm very much afraid that this is just the beginning of the long list of tariff tools
23:13that Trump is going to use.
23:15I'm very much afraid that the next area, besides steel and aluminum, will be pharmaceuticals,
23:23will be automotives, will be agriculture products.
23:29This is going to be hell not only for Europeans, but also for Americans who are voting for
23:37Trump hoping that he will deliver lower prices of eggs or whatever groceries they buy on
23:44a daily basis.
23:45I'm pretty sure that it is not going to work.
23:50And all the costs will be paid by regular citizens.
23:53We're seeing already reactions in the United States itself.
23:57The sentiment is down.
23:59The markets are in kind of disarray.
24:02The Trump bump that we saw right after the election is now a Trump slump.
24:07Ursula von der Leyen said everybody is losing here.
24:10Everybody is going to be the loser in this.
24:14Where can we look for support as European Union if our most important trading partner
24:20is sort of derailing?
24:23I think Europe should once again look at itself actually.
24:27What do we need?
24:29One problem for the European economy is that we are quite dependent actually on exports,
24:33on that kind of trade.
24:35If you compare to the US, for them the internal market is more important actually than in
24:41the EU for their economic growth, for employment and so on.
24:44So one thing for the EU could be to think about how can we strengthen internal demand
24:50in the internal market to lessen the dependency and make it harder for Trump to kind of try
24:56and affect Europe through these tariffs.
24:58That would mean for example strengthening wages, for example, putting more emphasis
25:05on that in Europe, on the possibility of people, their consumer strength.
25:12And then also when Europe now thinks about and the EU and how we answer to Trump.
25:17Because the first reactions of the EU was to go back to the same way they responded
25:21in I think it was 2018 with Bourbon and Harley Davidson in G8.
25:26I think EU at this moment should be ready also to tax these big digital social media
25:33corporations based in the US, for example, to put taxes on them and through this try
25:38and affect the people, we all know who they are, in the vicinity of Trump.
25:45What is Trump's endgame here?
25:47Where does that, how far is he willing to go?
25:50Well first of all his statement about the EU, EU shows how much he understands about
25:56these issues.
25:57He's a businessman, he doesn't understand too much about international policies and
26:02what has made the United States great.
26:05But his negotiation tactics seem to be borrowed from Russians, you know, demand impossible,
26:13double your demand and if you get in half what you started with, you're still a winner.
26:18And we've seen many times that he started with very big demands and then when he's answered
26:23with the same measures, he's coming back very fast.
26:27The negotiations with Ukraine, sorry, with Mexico and Canada shows it.
26:31And when you look for his first term, what he actually achieved.
26:35For more answers on this, we wanted to pick some academic brain here.
26:39What is the best response to aggressive US tariffs?
26:42So we spoke to Sandor Tordvar, economist at the Center for European Reform.
26:47Here's what he told us.
26:48Take a listen.
26:49We're already in a trade war.
26:52Not necessarily Europe, but between China and the US I think, you know, there is real
26:58pressure on the global trading system.
26:59At the very least I would think that we will impose tariffs on politically sensitive goods
27:04like Tesla vehicles, which happen to be owned by somebody who happens to be quite close
27:09to the US president.
27:10I think that is the smart solution, is to hit particular products that are particularly
27:15sensitive for Republican politicians.
27:17I think it shows the Europeans that you do not need to take the knee to Mr. Trump.
27:22You can actually stand up for yourself.
27:24Yeah, that sounds like a very confident plan.
27:27And hitting Tesla, is that too obvious or too personal?
27:31Or is that...
27:32I support that.
27:33We already suggested this in Finland also, that one way to respond could actually be
27:38to hit Tesla, which would hit Elon Musk directly.
27:41And I think the other option would be to hit these social media digital companies to taxes,
27:47for example.
27:48Either way, I think the point is that for EU, it makes no sense to respond in a broad
27:54way, to go into a trade war with the US in the same way that they have done.
28:00But for the EU, it's smarter to try and do direct, kind of pointed action against these
28:06very rich people, these oligarchs who are working with Trump.
28:10Well, two things.
28:11I mean, I fully, fully agree with Lee in terms of digital tax.
28:14A few days ago, the Polish deputy prime minister responsible for digitalization, he said like
28:20my ministry is working on introducing the digital tax.
28:25And that sparked a huge international problem between Poland and US governments.
28:35This is one thing.
28:36I mean, there are smart ways of responding.
28:39And the second way of defending ourselves is looking for another market.
28:44I mean, other markets.
28:45I mean, Canada already signaled that it's very much willing to tighten their trade relations
28:51between European Union and Canada.
28:53So why not use this opportunity, especially that Canada is also under pressure?
28:58And what about Tesla?
28:59Well, Tesla, I mean, let's boycott it.
29:02We are already hit by a 50 percent, almost slump in Europe, right?
29:06Yes, I don't like Musk too much either, but I wouldn't go too much.
29:10Personally, we should look the big picture where we can get the effects, but also use
29:14the possibility.
29:15Now we have a chance to be the stability in the world.
29:19We can be a partner who can maybe to whom you can make win-win deals, not only with
29:24America first deals.
29:25And we will hold our agreements over the next presidential elections, too.
29:30All right.
29:31At this point, we can close the conversation.
29:34Thank you so much to our guests and thank you for watching.
29:37See you soon on Euronews.
29:47Hello and welcome to Brussels, my love.
29:49My guests are the members of the European Parliament, Christoph Schmischek from the
29:52Socialists and Democrats, Becca Toveri from the European People's Party and Lee Anderson
29:58from the Left Group.
30:00A few days ago, the European Commission unveiled a roadmap for women's rights, the only mention
30:05of equality in its entire work program.
30:08Last term, key legislation for equality was passed, including the Pay Transparency Directive,
30:14new EU rules on gender balance on corporate boards and the Work Life Balance Initiative.
30:21This time, however, equality doesn't appear to be a priority, yet Europe remains far from
30:27achieving gender equality, with persistent pay gaps, gender-based violence and unequal
30:33domestic labor still posing major challenges.
30:37There seems to be a disturbing global trend to call into question some of the achievements
30:41of the struggle for women's rights, a kind of cultural rollback.
30:46Do you see that, too?
30:48And if yes, where is this coming from, Lee?
30:50I think we see it everywhere.
30:52I see it at home.
30:53I see it in the European Parliament.
30:55We see it in the Commission Work Program, as you mentioned.
30:58And it's also very clear where it comes from.
31:00It comes from the far and the extreme right.
31:02Those are the political forces that are behind this, you know, rollback that we now can see.
31:07And it's very unfortunate to see that, for example, a commission where you have very
31:12strong representation of commissioners with a background in EPP, that they don't hold
31:16back against this pressure and keep giving real legislative proposals, for example, in
31:23the field of gender equality.
31:24When you say this, you see that at home.
31:26You mean Finland?
31:27Yes, we have seen it in Finland as well.
31:31We have seen it in this hate speech against many female politicians.
31:35We see it in...
31:36We have a huge problem with gender-based violence still.
31:39And we still have a lot of work to do also in regards to the labor market.
31:44Do you agree?
31:45Well, we have a problem, yes.
31:47We have a problem on violence against women, and we need to do more on that.
31:52And overall in Europe, we see that, you know, violence creates violence, and we have a war
31:59going on in Ukraine, and that forces us to put more efforts to protecting democracy.
32:07You look at Russia.
32:08Russia is a dictatorship where wife-beating is illegal.
32:12It's legal or illegal?
32:14It's legal.
32:15Legal.
32:16Yes.
32:17So do we want Russia to dominate Europe?
32:19No, definitely not, because then everybody is...
32:22We have to put effort to stop that.
32:23But let's talk about the situation in the EU.
32:26I think that's much closer to us.
32:28One of the values of the treaties is gender equality and human rights.
32:33So this is a shame and shock and disgrace for this term of the European Commission,
32:38that there is no ambitions in terms of achieving gender equality.
32:43Women earn less than men.
32:47There's still a problem with combining a private life and a work life.
32:53So I don't know why the Commission is so withdrawn.
32:57And you know, a few weeks ago, Ursula von der Leyen announced that the European Commission
33:04is going to withdraw the Anti-Discrimination Horizontal Directive, the proposal which has
33:09been discussed in Brussels for the last 16 years.
33:13Why?
33:14This directive, this proposal, probably is the first victim of this phenomenon of deregulation
33:20in Brussels.
33:21And this term of the European Commission is not ambitious at all.
33:25You mentioned the Commission.
33:26The Commission reaffirms its commitment to fully realizing an equal society in Europe.
33:31The initiative was presented by Hadja Labib, the Commissioner in Charge of Equality, a
33:36former Belgian foreign minister.
33:38Take a listen.
33:39Here's what she said.
33:40In 2025, one in three women in the EU have experienced physical or sexual violence.
33:49And this is a poison.
33:51In 2025, women are still not paid the same as men for the same job.
33:57Women are paid an average 12% less per hour.
34:03This is slightly better than last year.
34:05We are slowly progressing, but it is still not right.
34:10Gender equality is not up for debate.
34:13It should be as natural as the air we breathe.
34:17Questioning women's rights is questioning progress.
34:21First of all, Hadja Labib is in charge of equality and preparedness and crisis management.
34:28Looks like equality doesn't deserve its own portfolio here.
34:31Yeah, I think that's kind of one sign of how the attitudes have changed in this mandate.
34:39I believe she has a strong will to enhance and work for these topics, but the problem
34:45is that if you only do it with roadmaps and strategies or policy papers, the real impact
34:53will be very little.
34:54We need also concrete legislative proposals.
34:58Take the pay gap, right?
34:59We've been talking about this for ages, over and over and over again, even on this program.
35:05Is it so difficult to bring corporate Europe to pay women and men the same amount of money?
35:11Look what has happened in the last term.
35:14So many legislative initiatives have been passed.
35:18It's not only the gender-based violence directive, it's also women on board, it's also standards
35:24for equality institutions.
35:25On this pay gap?
35:27On the pay gap?
35:28On the pay gap.
35:30The big business is not very happy to be obliged by bonding provisions that force them to make
35:39equality a reality.
35:41Words are beautiful, and roadmaps are beautiful and are necessary, but we need legislation
35:48and we need enforcement of this legislation, and we need also sanctions.
35:53Whether big corporates, and not only big corporates, violate this value, they need to be sanctioned.
35:59The Commission is obviously continuing on the old roadmap going forward, and this is
36:03the problem we have nowadays, because we have dozens of things which there are people saying
36:07that this is the most important thing we have to do now.
36:10Well, democracy is attacked.
36:12We are fighting for survival between Russia and the United States.
36:17So the Commission has to put effort somewhere.
36:19For companies to pay less to women, right?
36:21I have to disagree with Pekka on this.
36:22I was a minister during COVID in the Finnish government, and when the pandemic started,
36:28we made a decision that we will enact a government program, although we have a pandemic.
36:33Why did we do that?
36:35Because we thought that if we stop doing everything else to develop society because of this crisis,
36:41people will pay two times for the crisis.
36:43They will pay for the effect of the pandemic, or in this case, the war and the geopolitical
36:48situation, and they will pay the price of everything that we didn't do for gender equality
36:55or for a better labor market or for the social policies during that time.
36:59That is a great conclusion.
37:01We've reached the end of Brussels My Love.
37:05Thank you to our guests today and to our viewers at home.
37:10If you want to continue the conversation on any topic, write to brusselsmylove at euronews.com
37:16or contact us on social media.
37:19That's it for today.
37:20I'm Stefan Grobe.
37:21Have an excellent week.
37:23Take care and see you soon.