On this edition of Entre Nous, we take a deep dive into reading. On France’s National Reading Day, Solange Mougin looks at children’s reading habits and how the #BookTok phenomenon is introducing teens to viral books, specifically romance and dark romance novels. We’re joined by digital parenting coach Elizabeth Milovidov, who explains how to safely navigate the darker side of such books and algorithms.
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00:00Time now for our Entre Nous segment and today is March 11th and it's National Reading Day
00:05here in France with schools across the country pushing children to read for at least 15 minutes
00:10every single day.
00:11However, certain trends have started to cause some concern and to talk more about this we'll
00:16be speaking to Elisabeth Milov-Vidov, founder of Digital Parenting Coach, as well as Solange
00:21Mougin.
00:22Solange, let me start with you first.
00:24Is France really a nation of readers?
00:27Yeah, France indeed has one of the highest levels of readers in Europe with three out
00:31of four French people or some 40 million people over the age of 15 having read at least one
00:36book in 2024.
00:38This is according to the National Union of Publishers.
00:41However, there is some concern that young people in particular are reading less and
00:45there's also concern about what some of them are reading, certain literary trends such
00:50as dark romance going viral, particularly among young girls.
00:55We will get to that in a minute, but first, when it comes to reading, where are children
01:00at?
01:01Well, the National Center of Books created this day with the L'Education Nationale or
01:04the Education Department to promote the habit of reading for at least 15 minutes a day,
01:09for they found that young French kids spend 10 times more time per day on screens than
01:14on reading for fun.
01:16On average, kids spend 3 hours and 11 minutes on screens versus 19 minutes spent reading
01:23for pleasure.
01:24Now, the questionnaire excluded school time reading and also took into account for reading
01:29and listening to a book on a tablet that's counted as reading.
01:33So French children are generally reading less than they are watching.
01:37But among those that are reading, what are they reading and should adults be concerned
01:41about what they're reading?
01:42Well, graphic novels and bons dessinés or mangas, Japanese graphic novels, they are
01:47huge here in France and that warrants an entire segment in itself.
01:50But today I wanted to concentrate on the rising trend among teens, particularly teen
01:55girls, that is creating some concern among educators and parents, and that is dark romance.
02:00Now, Solange, this trend of dark romance emerged in part due to how young teens are getting
02:07into reading.
02:08Yeah, to break this down, I need to explain the phenomenon of book talk and new romance,
02:14and then we can get to one of its offshoots, dark romance.
02:17So if you do not know what book talk is, T-O-K, not T-A-L-K, book talk, it is a community
02:23and a hashtag on TikTok where you have young book reviewers critiquing and praising books
02:28with sort of short, snappy videos.
02:30Altogether, there are around 60 billion videos that have collectively around 200 billion
02:35views.
02:36So this is quite huge.
02:38And it has created a space where otherwise unknown authors can suddenly go viral and
02:43sell hundreds of thousands of copies, even millions, if you take, for example, Colleen
02:47Hoover or Rebecca Yaros.
02:49But publishers have, and in addition to this, publishers have caught on with many now hiring
02:54young TikTokers to review books.
02:56It's revolutionizing the industry.
02:59And one genre where book talk really has made major headway is romance.
03:03Now, romance has always had a lucrative and widespread following, but there's been a big
03:08change in the genre from the older generations, say Harlequin or Mills and Boone's novels
03:13with bare-chested swashbucklers saving damsels in distress.
03:17Now these are love stories where the women are often not submissive.
03:21They have agency.
03:22These new romances also are a genre where there are often explicit sex scenes.
03:28There's a ton of sub-genres to romance.
03:31But there is one major rule to all of them, which is that there has to be a happily ever
03:35after ending or an H-E-A in the fan lingo.
03:39And most new romance fans, well, they are young women that read a lot of these books.
03:45In France, the numbers actually doubled in 2023 with six million romance novels sold.
03:50It is so lucrative that many editors say that it's helping save the industry.
03:55The site Babelio, they pulled 7,000 readers and 95% of the romance readers were women,
04:02over half read more than two romances per month.
04:06And of those readers, 40% of them, this is important, are from 15 to 24-year-olds, with
04:11most of them having started to read romance as young teens.
04:15And that's where we can potentially run into issues with dark romance.
04:19So what exactly is this dark romance?
04:22Well, it is one of the many sub-genres of romance novels.
04:27There are lots of them, from paranormal to historical to gothic to sports romances.
04:32With dark romance, there is, in addition to the happily ever after, there are portrayals
04:37or romanticizations of abuse, be it psychological or physical torture, rape, kidnapping, manipulation,
04:44domination.
04:45In a nutshell, a rough outline of many of these books is abusive bad boy, main character
04:52does essentially toxic and potentially illegal in real life things to an often meek and submissive
04:58girl.
04:59Whether you take Fifty Shades of Grey, which was seen as a precursor to the genre, or the
05:03million-plus bestseller by Colleen Hoover, It Ends With Us, there's debate about whether
05:08or not that is dark romance or not.
05:10Now, you could argue all of this is fine.
05:13It is fiction, and readers are able to distinguish between escapist fiction and real life.
05:18For example, crime novel fans, they don't suddenly become serial killers.
05:23That's one argument.
05:24But if you take into account the number of young people that are reading these books
05:28thanks to science-like book talk, again, 70% of book talk and TikTok users, rather,
05:34are under 24.
05:35It raises the question of very young readers and their access to these books.
05:40It also raises the question, like pornography does, of what does this viral subgenre do
05:46to the minds of young people that may not necessarily have the tools yet to read them
05:50critically?
05:51And then how does this affect their views of relationships, of society?
05:56Should such glorifications of toxic relationships and abuse be kept from young eyes?
06:02Should there be a warning system or laws like there is, for example, with child pornography
06:05or racism?
06:08Does this, though, infringe on free speech?
06:10That's a counterargument.
06:11These are not easy questions.
06:13But there is a need, at least for parents, to be aware that there is a trend among some
06:18young girls who are reading, potentially, some very dark stuff.
06:23It seems like it.
06:24Solange, thank you very much for that.
06:26We can now bring in Elisabeth Milavidov, founder at Digital Parenting Coach.
06:31Elisabeth, good to see you again on the program.
06:33Tell us, what exactly happens when teens search for dark romance online?
06:38Right.
06:39So this is where it gets tricky.
06:42As Solange really laid out for us this whole genre of dark romance and what's happening,
06:48the fact that we add this online element to it, it can be really problematic.
06:53Teens can search for this dark romance online, so they can encounter a mix of content.
06:59Some harmless, some really, really problematic, and some just outright harmful.
07:04What you're seeing on your screen, that was just me going on Instagram and taking a look
07:08at dark romance, and you could see how all of that was just glorifying these harmful
07:14relationships.
07:15And when you're looking at dark romance online, I mean, depending on what platform you are
07:20on, you're going to have different issues.
07:22So for example, with BookTalk and Bookstagram, you're going to see things that are glorifying
07:27these harmful relationships, as Solange really, really explained about this sort of violent,
07:33aggressive male character.
07:36If you go to Pinterest or Tumblr, which are more images, you will see this sort of romanticized
07:41version of dangerous love.
07:44And Reddit and Discord, which are really sort of platforms for having online discussions,
07:49then you're going to see more and more discussions.
07:51Our younger teens are going to be listening to this type of content and having desensitized
07:56discussions.
07:57I mean, this is something of what we've seen with some of the misogynist influencers as
08:02well, where the more and more there's conversations about this, the boys, in case of misogyny,
08:08they become desensitized and they think it's okay to treat girls and women this way.
08:13And the flip side here is that as girls and young women are having these same sort of
08:17conversations, they feel it's okay to be treated this way.
08:21You know, we don't even think about music, right?
08:24But music, if you're searching online, music can also glamorize some of this stalking,
08:30this destructive behavior, this sort of control, this self-destructive relationship.
08:35And Delano, before you even ask, I'm going to tell you, a perfect example for music is
08:40every breath you take by police, right?
08:43But police, you know, that was kind of cringy way back when, and there are some questions
08:48now.
08:49But if we also look at other platforms, if your teens are playing on some of the role
08:54play platforms, they can, you know, reenact some of these intense scenes.
08:58We've seen that in some of the more recent metaverse experiences.
09:02And I think last thing for parents to realize is that when you're, again, in this online
09:07There are just a chat room, a forum discussion away, where there are predators, groomers
09:14waiting to exploit your teen's curiosity.
09:17So Elizabeth, what can parents do if they want to warn their teens about this exact
09:21type of content without then increasing their curiosity for exactly that?
09:26Yeah, I feel that you really need to start speaking about what the algorithm is and what
09:32can happen when you're online.
09:34And this is the same sort of conversations that we have when we're talking to our children
09:38about, you know, just being online for too long.
09:40So you explain how the algorithm can, you know, amplify the content that you're seeing,
09:45that toxic, harmful content.
09:47You will start to see more of it.
09:50We know that there are little bubbles.
09:51I mean, we've seen this with misinformation and sort of political discussions where there's
09:57really a narrow perspective.
09:59So the same thing is happening in relationships.
10:01Unfortunately, algorithms are created to escalate more, to give you more of what you're
10:07looking for.
10:08And sometimes this can be that harmful content that then progresses to another level.
10:13And I think, quite frankly, we are all in agreement that algorithms are designed to
10:17keep your attention.
10:19That is what they were created for.
10:21And I think that you need to have these types of conversations with your young people to
10:24talk about this sort of addictive design that lead to problematic use.
10:30And I think overall, to realize that this algorithm, it can really influence how you
10:35define relationships.
10:36And again, the example that I want to use is for the girls and the boys is to look at
10:41the misogynistic content out that's out there and compare that with the dark romance content
10:46that's there.
10:47Elizabeth, very briefly, is it even possible to read this type of content safely?
10:51Well, in my house, I'm going to say yes, because I'm always reading with my children.
10:58And I have read a couple of these books.
11:01But I do think that it's critical thinking, right?
11:04It's always going to be the same thing.
11:07It is making sure that people understand what is fiction, what is reality, right?
11:12And when you're having these conversations, which are always the core pillar for digital
11:17parenting, you're going to have a neutral conversation.
11:20You are not going to just come out guns blazing, banning all the books, because all that's
11:26going to do is have your child going to the neighbors, going to the library, going online
11:29somewhere else.
11:30So you have to have a conversation, not a warning.
11:33You don't have to explain about what is happening, what the algorithm is doing to you, what psychology,
11:39how it is shaping our perceptions, the world that we see around us.
11:43And really, I think a really great and simple tip is to just, again, that conversation,
11:48but ask them about their favorite characters.
11:51Why do they like that guy so much in that dark suit?
11:54What's going on there?
11:56What about this woman?
11:57How is she such a strong character?
11:58You know, you can find alternatives and help them understand.
12:02I think that teens, we forget that if you explain something to them, they will get it.
12:07Help them recognize some of those red flags.
12:10They will know.
12:11They will know if you keep talking about what's top and what's not.
12:15Elisabeth.
12:16Anne Solange, thank you so much for joining us here on Entre Nous.