Visit our website:
http://www.france24.com
Like us on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English
Follow us on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/France24_en
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Let's get more on this developing story. Paul Smith joins us, Associate Professor in French
00:05History and Politics at the University of Nottingham. Paul, as always, great to have
00:09you on the programme. What's your reading of this diplomatic row?
00:14Well, it's a bit of a disappointment, I think, certainly for the French, after they hoped
00:21that after a phone call between Macron and the Moroccan president, that relations were
00:27going to sort of level out. But then, of course, this has carried on. But my interpretation
00:33of this is that there, exactly as your reporter said, there are so many different factors feeding
00:38in here, not least of which, of course, is also domestic politics in France, with Bruno Retayou
00:43being blamed by the Algerian authorities for what's happened in terms of the arrest of the
00:49Algerian nationals. But also, of course, Retayou trying to look like a tough man in relation
00:55to the campaign to become president of Lele Pivikar. And of course, the far right are also
01:01sort of upping the ante with regard to the attitude towards Algeria. So there are all sorts of factors
01:07playing in here to this current crisis, which is just, you know, just every time we think
01:15that it's calmed itself down, it just explodes again.
01:18So in many ways, I should say, it's been like a pot waiting to boil over with so many aspects
01:22coming into this, of course, perhaps most importantly, the decision by Emmanuel Macron
01:28to take Morocco's side over the Western Sahara.
01:31Yes, and that was, I was thinking back about this a little bit earlier on, that, you know,
01:37things seem to be going so well in about in 2022, not long after Macron was re-elected
01:42president, one of his big sort of coups was to go to Algeria, have a really, what looked like
01:48a really productive meeting with the Algerian president who you're seeing there on the screen
01:55back in August of 2022. And then it slowly unraveled. And then, as you say, you know,
02:01in last year, he takes the side, as it were, and certainly that's the way it's seen in
02:06Algiers, taking the side of the Moroccans over the Western Sahara. And this is about a triangular
02:11relationship between Rabat, the Moroccan capital, Algiers and Paris as well. And of course, greater
02:18geopolitical issues with regard to the relationship between Morocco and Israel, but also, of course,
02:25the relationship between Algiers and Rabat between, over the question of rift separatism in
02:31Morocco, supported by the Algerians, and also cabal separatism supported in Algeria, supported
02:37by the Moroccans. So there's this kind of endless kind of problematic of so many different players
02:45around this, but it all kind of centers on this relationship between the former colonial
02:52power and Algeria, between France and Algeria.
02:55You mentioned colonial times there, Paul. Is the fundamental problem between France and
03:00Algeria what goes right back to the War of Independence, which, of course, ended in 1962?
03:05Yeah, before even I was born. So, I mean, that's how long ago it was, but you know that there
03:12is this sort of sense, and I've said it to you before, and not just in regard to this,
03:17but this sort of sense of the war is over, and yet it isn't. And what's actually quite frustrating,
03:25I suppose, is that Macron has been very strong on the idea of trying to bring together Algerian
03:32and French historians to talk about the way that the war can be remembered, and independence
03:39can be remembered, and the French and the Franco-Algerian relationship can be remembered,
03:43and trying to take all the, I mean, you can't just do it through history, but trying to at
03:48least take some of the points and the toxicity out of that relationship and try to normalize
03:56it. Ben Stora, for example, very important figure in that process from the French side,
04:02but that keeps, you know, despite Macron's best intentions, you know, in 2017, he described
04:10French colonial domination of Algeria as a crime against humanity, and that seemed to pave the
04:16way for something new. But that kind of project, that cultural project, seemed to keep stumbling
04:23over considerations in the two capitals, in Paris and in Algiers. France is not, you know,
04:31uniquely responsible for this situation. There is the Algerian part as well, and the regime in
04:36Algiers is, you know, what is happening in Algiers is fundamental as well. But it is still a very long
04:43process, and it doesn't seem to be any closer to resolution.
04:47Nonetheless, though, France, Algeria, the two peoples, there's a kind of inextricable link,
04:54isn't there? How can a better relationship be forged, Paul? I know this is something that many,
04:59many people are still trying to get a handle on, but I'm asking you, do you have any sort of sense of
05:04where progress could be made? Is there something that maybe comes to mind that you think, you know,
05:09could be explored by both sides?
05:11You know, I think at a very basic level, I think most Algerians and most French people get on
05:16perfectly well. But the problem is that it's often a mismatch between when Paris is ready to
05:23make concessions or to take a particular approach, and when Algiers is ready to take a particular
05:29approach. And of course, in Algerian politics, you're dealing with a very powerful president who has a
05:35particular way of seeing his role and his relationship with the rest of the world,
05:40his position within Algiers. And then, of course, you have, you know, France is trying to manage its
05:46geopolitical relationship, but also, of course, France is seen as being the place where opponents
05:52of the current regime can find, you know, safe haven, can find refuge. So that then creates a
06:00political problem. So that it's, it's, and then you have the far right in France using Algeria
06:08as, as a kind of a, as kind of the bit noir, the scapegoat, both sides will do that. It's very
06:15difficult to see how these, at the top level, how these things are resolved. And yet, we know that it
06:22can happen if there's a political, if we think about South Africa, the process of reconciliation
06:27there, if we think about Northern Ireland from the British example, these things can happen. But it's
06:32difficult to see exactly at this moment exactly what it is, what is that event that brings that,
06:39that, that big turn in the relationship.
06:43Paul Smith, thank you, as always, for your assessment and your take on the story. We
06:49really do appreciate it. Associate Professor in French History and Politics at the University
06:53of Nottingham. Paul, thank you very much indeed. We watch, of course, for developments on this
06:58story. Just to remind you, France recalling its ambassador to Algeria, there's been an exchange
07:05of expulsions of embassy staff, and this all centres on a row over Algerian nationals being arrested in
07:12Paris last Friday.