At the India Today Conclave 2025, Shabana Azmi spoke about her role in Dabba Cartel, emphasising that 'power can be quiet'. Co-creator Shibani Akhtar revealed that the concept was built around the idea of a “Shabana Azmi drug cartel” from the outset. The series presents a compelling narrative of women coming together in solidarity within a crime drama, with Azmi’s nuanced and quiet yet powerful performance serving as its anchor. Her portrayal marks a significant thematic shift in Indian storytelling. Jyotika also shared her experience and connection to her character, highlighting how the roles reflect real-life struggles faced by women, as well as themes of feminism and women’s emancipation.
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00:00Shibani, let's begin with you, co-creating Dabba Katla.
00:03Now, you know, I am a little wired and I must be forgiven because I've binge-watched it
00:07last night.
00:08And I loved it, and I have to say, because you know, a lot of people are watching it
00:13right now and I think those who've seen it or are watching it will agree.
00:17It's just how it cuts through with its simple middle-class attitude, bringing women together
00:23in solidarity, just pure empathy, unfiltered empathy for each other, bringing each other
00:31up as you go along, and so subtly at that.
00:34That's what I love most about the show.
00:35But co-creating the show, Shibani, and putting together this stunning star cast, how did
00:41you manage to do that?
00:42Where did the idea germinate from, how did it go?
00:46Well, I knew I wanted to create a story that was female-led, and I knew I wanted the genre
00:55of crime drama.
00:57And if you look at the idea of Dabba Katla, we have so many Katla stories from around
01:03the world, but I think what made this one so unique was the backdrop of Thane.
01:09I think the quintessential Dabba that is associated with Mumbai and Thane was another quirk that
01:14was really interesting.
01:16And when you take women from this middle-class society who aren't a part of the crime world,
01:25and then you take them on this journey that they now have to navigate as they enter this
01:31new world of crime, it's a really interesting situation to place them in because you are
01:38looking at them in their regular home lives, you're looking at them navigate this space
01:44when they're together, trying to figure out how they're going to combat these mafia guys
01:49or the ones that kind of put them in a position where they're placed in a certain threat.
01:54And I think oscillating from one to the other was a really interesting way of presenting
01:59a cartel.
02:00I don't think it's something that we've seen before, so I found the backdrop of India actually
02:03really quite interesting, and Thane specifically.
02:06As far as the women are concerned, it gave us the opportunity to really layer these characters.
02:11We've got women from different age groups, from different classes who really work together
02:18to overcome this situation that they're in.
02:21And I think that was a really interesting addition to the story, and I also think it
02:26was really interesting and exciting for us as creators to be able to do that.
02:31You know, but also to get women like these on stage all together, Jyotika, superstar
02:36in the South, Shabana Azmi, you know, I understand, you know, she's home somewhere, but to get
02:41her to be the fulcrum of the show, how do you manage to get all of them together?
02:45You think I had a choice?
02:47She's my daughter-in-law, she pulled me by the ear, and my…
02:51Of course, I had to do it, saas hoon na kya kar sakti hoon?
02:56Yeah, she didn't really have a choice.
02:59I always knew that I wanted her to be a part of the show, and I remember telling Farhan
03:04that Shabana has to do this show, and he said, call her and just tell her she has to do it.
03:09So I think she was the easiest cast member to get on board for obvious reasons.
03:14Was the part written for you?
03:16It was written for her.
03:18The two things that I had on my whiteboard when I first thought of this idea was Shabana
03:23Azmi, Drug Cartel.
03:26And so I knew…
03:27Look, I always knew I wanted to work with her, so she was on board before the idea was
03:34even developed, because that was a very…
03:37That was really important for me.
03:38As far as the other cast members are concerned, I…
03:41You know, full credit goes to the actors that we have on board, because there is this excitement
03:48and understanding of being part of an ensemble cast, understanding that you are sharing space
03:56with people that are an integral part of the story.
03:59And I think when you allow for that to happen, the story becomes more and more beautiful.
04:04We're allowed…
04:05The storytellers were allowed to say a lot more, because nobody's thinking of it from
04:09just their perspective and from their character's perspective.
04:12They're thinking about it as a whole.
04:15And when you're that invested and excited in a story, as creators, it's the best position
04:22that you could possibly be in.
04:24And so full credit goes to each and every cast member who said yes to the project and
04:30looked at the story and said, we are excited to be a part of this.
04:33Jyotika, what drew you to, you know, the series?
04:36Because that one line, for those of you who watched it or want to watch it, I would think
04:43Narcos Thane is what you said, that was your line.
04:45Ozark is also what comes to mind.
04:47So if you've seen Ozark, imagine an all-woman cast holding it together in Ozark.
04:52But Narcos Thane, what drew you to Narcos Thane, aka Dabba Cartoon?
04:58I'm sorry, it's just I'm not able to get the question.
05:00Can you…
05:01What made you to do this?
05:04I think everything…
05:05What made you pick it?
05:06Because, you know…
05:07I think everything about Dabba Cartoon, the ensemble cast of such extraordinary women
05:11being together, especially sharing screenplays with Shobana Azmi ma'am.
05:15I think that was something that drew me to the script first.
05:20The character of Varuna, I personally also resonated with it.
05:25I thought a lot of me was in her too because I'm a working woman who got married, who
05:31left work for a while and then got back to it.
05:33So I resonated with it.
05:34I saw a lot of women in her as a character and I thought the toughest characters to play
05:41are the ones which are the real life ones, which women resonate with and I thought Varuna
05:48was one of them.
05:49Well, I'm sure Surya is a much better husband.
05:51No, it's also inspired from a lot of real life stories.
05:57I have friends who are in Varuna's shoes.
05:59So I really was very happy to play this.
06:02Was she as strict as, you know, to work with?
06:05You didn't have many scenes with each other but was she as strict as she is in the film?
06:09Because like I said, the silence, that glare spoke so much.
06:14She is extremely an absolute opposite person of what she comes across, I think.
06:21She broke ice on set.
06:22She was the most friendly and most appreciative and I think it's just standing next to her
06:30is very empowering and, you know, we just feel her… not just about… it's not about
06:34her acting career alone, it's the woman she is and, you know, that comes across when you
06:40just… when you work with her.
06:42So I think she broke ice.
06:43She was like a friend to all of us and we were all age groups of women and I think she
06:48just… we just blended in together and Shobana ma'am is just like a friend now.
06:54You know, actually I'm an angel but you can't see my wings.
06:57So I have all these friends who will say those things for me.
07:00But Shobana ji, you know what, you say you didn't have a choice, you know, and I would
07:04think to pick this role but if I hark back my memory that possibly something which you've
07:12hemmed like this before, illegal would be Mandi, where you were the madam of the brothel
07:17and now you have something similar, very different, this is a narcotic driven plot,
07:22that was different.
07:23What made you pick this?
07:25Because I'll tell you why, because you've had very recently a similar line plot which
07:29you had… which had Dimple Kapadia and Saas, Bahu and Flamingos.
07:33Was that somewhere down the line a parallel that ran in your head and said maybe I shouldn't?
07:38No, not at all.
07:40In fact, more closer than Mandi was a film called Godmother that I had done and had also
07:47won the National Award for it.
07:49But I thought the role of Bah allowed me to play her completely differently.
07:59And I think in the course of doing the part, I realized that, you know, power can be quiet.
08:07Power doesn't need to be shouted from the rooftops, that a certain assertiveness comes
08:15by just simply speaking your lines and not adding anything to it.
08:21So in order to play a part that appears to be almost simple at one level, you have to
08:29do a lot of homework and a lot of riyaz to make it appear effortless.
08:36How did it go?
08:37So what, Shibani you called her and you say you have to do this or did you know that they're
08:41going to call me and I'll have to say yes?
08:42No, no, I had no idea at all.
08:45I had no idea.
08:46But the thing is that, you know, Shibani and I, we've spent a lot of time together, we've
08:51talked about content and I know for a fact that we are on the same page as far as content.
09:00So when she told me about the part, not for a minute did I doubt that it would be a run
09:06of the mill thing and was immediately curious about it.
09:11And then when it came together, I was really glad I did it.
09:14Shibani, you know, to get Shabana ji, to get Jyotika, Nimisha, Shalini, it was a perfect
09:20cast that way.
09:22Also in terms of the plot, a crime thriller is very rarely associated with an all-woman
09:29ensemble cast.
09:30Was it on purpose or it just came together?
09:33No, it was on purpose.
09:35It was, yeah, I mean, you see so many crime shows that have…
09:40Did it begin, and let me put it this way, did it begin with I want to do a crime thriller
09:44and it's going to be on these lines or did it begin with I want an all-woman cast to
09:47helm something which hasn't quite happened before?
09:51It was, I think it was the female-led that was a little ahead of the crime drama, but
09:55the genre wasn't far behind.
09:58So I knew it had to be a combination of those two things.
10:02As far as getting the cast together, it was a collective decision, I think, Excel, Netflix,
10:11our incredible director Hitesh Bhatia, who knew exactly what he wanted, and I think the
10:18reach was pan-India.
10:19We wanted a cast that had never been seen together before.
10:23We wanted it to be an exciting combination of actors, actors who are very well-known
10:32for doing good work, and we knew that when we presented the role to these specific actors,
10:40they weren't just going to say yes based on the story idea.
10:43They would want to know more about the character, where the character is going.
10:46There would be a deep dive into the show itself, and I think that's, as creators, that's
10:52really what excites us, when you have somebody that's so interested and invested in the
10:57project and wants to know as much as possible.
11:00So as I said, yes, Shabana said yes in five minutes, but we had spent so much time together,
11:07and we have discussed art and film and content thoroughly, and you can't ask someone like
11:15Shabana Azmi to play a character that has no depth and that doesn't have any substance.
11:19So she would have known, even though she said yes very quickly.
11:24The others...
11:25Was Jyotika difficult?
11:27No, she wasn't, but she did ask all of the right questions.
11:30She really wanted to know a lot.
11:33She was excited from the beginning, so it was pretty much a yes from the beginning,
11:38but there was so much curiosity, and I think that that fascinates me, when someone wants
11:42to know so much about their character.
11:45It was never a, but what do the others do, and what do I do?
11:49It was like, tell me more about her.
11:51Tell me more about her relationship with her husband.
11:54Tell me more about the part that she plays.
11:55But you know what was palpable, Jyotika, is what Shabana is saying, the psychological
11:59depth and the layering in characters.
12:01I think that really came out, and the subtlety of all of it.
12:06You're a superstar in your own right, and you are, and you've done OTT before, but it's
12:13new for you.
12:14What were your questions, what you wanted in place before you picked this project?
12:20What won it for you?
12:22So yes, it is my first web series, but as far as Varuna was concerned, we have layers,
12:28we have women from different stratas, and she was the only one who belonged to the higher
12:32strata, and I think I didn't want her problems to get, feel secondary, because we usually
12:41feel that the problems of the lower strata, which I don't know how you should redefine
12:46that word and use, but the lower strata should… are the ones which are the real problems.
12:51I wanted…
12:52I know it's a very common issue, Varuna was playing a corner of every woman, you know,
13:00so I just wanted her problem to resonate, and those are the questions I think I raised,
13:05that let her problems not be small because she belongs to an upper strata.
13:09Because at the end of the day, she's a woman, and all women battle the same issues within
13:13themselves.
13:14So those were the little minor queries we had about characters, but otherwise, I just
13:20love the layering in her, and as I said…
13:22In every, every character, you know, I think that's what most of us who watched it love
13:26it so much, because every character was so distinctive, and you fell in love with some
13:29part of that character.
13:31And that's why, because, you know, there is a class barrier with Varuna and the rest
13:35of the class, and possibly that's why you're given the Narcos thani line, which skims
13:39off the surface of the others because they quite have not heard it, but it hits home
13:43with everyone who's watching, you know, watching you say it.
13:47But we talk about OTT, Shabana ji, you know, you've been through the hole, you've actually
13:53been somebody who got great roles even then, author-backed, meteor roles, but OTT has changed
13:59the game, and streaming has changed the game.
14:02You know, rarely can you find bad acting right now, it's who's better, because you're looking
14:05at each one of you, and each one of your different scenes, and you're saying, damn, this Dimisha
14:09is really good, Jyotika, Shabana ji, that, you know, just that glance, all of that.
14:14So, has it opened a different world, Shabana ji, now for actors?
14:18Yes, certainly, and not only for actors, because actors are getting a lot of more choice-y
14:24roles than they had earlier, but I think what has happened is that the OTT has finally defined
14:32that content is king.
14:35See, the OTT is not ruled by the economics of the first week end, which normally within
14:46the mainstream cinema, you see, that if there's no opening, then it's a disaster.
14:51Here, there's no need for an opening, because it has a shelf.
14:55Yeah, it's number one on Netflix, I'm not complaining about that, but the thing is,
15:01that it has such a long shelf life, that it can go on forever and ever, and that's why
15:10I think that writers and producers are having the courage to make different content.
15:20When it comes to women, I mean, it was really not thinkable, even 20 years ago, that a woman
15:29of the age that I am would play the lead, would play the central figure.
15:35You know, that is all opening up, and I think what is happening is that it's no longer driven
15:40by age, it's characterization, and when you get involved in characterization, then you're
15:47elongating your career, but the best fallout of this is that content is king, and which
15:58is the way it should be.
16:00But you know, as a fallout of that, it's opened way many doors.
16:04You talk about ageism and age, but also gender.
16:08Who would have thought, you know, who would have thought that a series like this would
16:13come in three or four years ago, or would be as avidly watched and celebrated?
16:17It would be difficult to think.
16:19You know, I think it's really part of the women's movement that has been filtering down
16:27and entering every rein and every sphere of what women are doing, and I think that comes
16:33interestingly because finally, you're happy to own that men and women are different.
16:41Not better, not worse, but different, and that difference needs to be celebrated.
16:49And I think it's also a result of that, maybe not directly, but yes, certainly.
16:55You know, I'll take off from there, and Shobani, I want to bring you in.
16:58Was there an attempt, because it was so subtle and it was so huge, for me it was a delight
17:03to watch how, you know, the rawness and the unbreakable bond that your characters had
17:08with each other, where without, importantly to say, judgment, without question.
17:15You know, because there's a line where the maid and, you know, the woman of the household,
17:21the maid has a video, of course it's a sex video, which somebody has.
17:25The woman of the household, Shalini here, what I loved was, doesn't ask, kyun hua?
17:30Kyun kya?
17:31She doesn't ask.
17:32She says, koi drugs bechta hai kyunki video delete karane ke liye?
17:35Matlab kar liya was fine, there was no judgment, no question, and that was so beautiful to
17:40watch.
17:41You know, the all-out woman, the powerful messaging of woman-to-woman solidarity, which
17:45is so rare.
17:46Was it an attempt to deliver that or it just happened subliminally?
17:48Shobani Kumar No, we worked really hard.
17:50The writers, Vishnu Menon, Bhavna Kher, and our director Hitesh Bhatia, Abbas Khan, the
17:57creative producer, we worked really hard on making sure that the layers of these characters,
18:05of these women, of their relationships, came through without any kind of judgment, with
18:12this raw understanding of what a relationship is like.
18:17And it was really important to not kind of have things on the nose.
18:23You need to say things sometimes without saying things, you know?
18:26In that moment, Raji stands up for Mala as her friend.
18:31There is no judgment.
18:33So, and it's even in the male and female relationships, when Varuna has a fight with Shankar, there's
18:41some raw, brutal honesty in that fight, from both ends.
18:46That's not about gender in that moment.
18:48It is about a relationship.
18:49And what we wanted to do was not hammer on the head this thing of gender, of having to
18:56say something, of having to deliver a message.
19:00Sometimes the most important things come from just watching and learning, I feel, without
19:06having to really say it.
19:08You have to leave something for the audience to just understand.
19:11And I love that you have pointed out this one very special moment where Raji, played
19:17by Shalini, doesn't judge Mala for the video.
19:20I love it, because she doesn't ask, you know?
19:22She doesn't ask, ki kyun kiya yeh video?
19:25But she just says, ke koi drugs bechne lag jata hai, agar video delete nahi kiya, toh
19:29it was beautiful, I thought.
19:31And even in the scene when, spoilers for people that haven't seen the show, but when Mala
19:36asks Varuna, why are you doing this?
19:40She doesn't ask her as soon as Varuna enters the cartel.
19:44She asks her later, in a moment of extreme vulnerability.
19:48She asks Varuna, why do you need to do this?
19:51And so, in order for these relationships to develop in the most raw, authentic way, we
19:57held back a lot.
19:58And I think in that holding back, you see a lot more.
20:01And that also happened with Jyothika in that one particular scene, because, you know, I
20:06don't think it was judgment, but there was a class barrier between you and the housekeeper.
20:12And then suddenly, that breaks when you've been administered some drugs.
20:18And, speak about that.
20:20How did that?
20:21So that's what, you know, we're all women inside, at the end of the day, it was not
20:23about your strata, or it's not about who has more money, it was more about what you are
20:29from within.
20:30And that depth and emotion is what I saw in every woman and every man.
20:35Did it flow into the set?
20:36Oh, yes.
20:37We…
20:38Oh, you mean the…
20:39The camaraderie that all of you had behind the scenes?
20:41Of course it did.
20:42Did you know you were doing something which will… which will have this kind of impact?
20:45There are two things I realized.
20:47One is that women are out there just waiting to uplift each other.
20:51That was…
20:52Dabba Katil was quite an example of it.
20:55And this only happens when, even though there is a Shobhana Azmi and actors of Gajraj Rao
21:01here, it only happens when you have all an equal space on the set.
21:06We were all treated equally and that drove a confidence in all of us, different ages,
21:13that we are equal and we all have well-written characters and we were all secure in our places.
21:20And that brought us all together.
21:22We didn't question about each other's role, we didn't… we didn't have any debate,
21:26we enjoyed our work because we were secure.
21:28You know, it translated on screen.
21:29You know, one second.
21:30But it also busts the myth that women are women's worst enemies.
21:35Exactly.
21:36That, to me, is the most important thing because constantly this myth comes up and it was very
21:43important to break it and that's where I think Dabba Katil's success is the most…
21:48You know, Shobhana ji, I want to ask you, you know, we are reaching the end and I want
21:51to ask you just two questions because men and… most women also love status quo, the
21:58way things are going, chalta rehna chahiye.
22:00But popular culture, cinema and be it, you know, streaming or on the silver screen, sometimes
22:06plants that seed where we are talking about the cause of women.
22:13How big will Dabba Katil, you know, maybe of course not carry it on but make that possible
22:19small impact?
22:20You know, it depends on its… whether it's made interestingly or not.
22:26Just the lofty idea in itself never works because it's an art form, okay?
22:32So finally it has to… it has to stand the test of the medium, after all not here standing
22:39and sloganeering.
22:40So we must never forget that when we want to say something, it has to be truthful to
22:47the medium that it is.
22:49And as long as it is interestingly told, as is the feedback we are getting in our first
22:55season, I hope there'll be many more.
22:58So you… because you know, cinema, popular culture is a part of that bigger cycle where
23:03women emancipation, you know, feminism or whatever you might call it is concerned.
23:10Do you think that cycle has begun now?
23:13Yes, most certainly and it has also begun within the mainstream.
23:18That to me is the most important thing because otherwise you're preaching to the already
23:23converted.
23:24True.
23:25But when it comes within the mainstream, it's not going to be as effective.
23:30And this is a small step towards that and I'm sure that there will be many such opportunities.
23:37You know, and I really hope so because the theme of our conclave is the age of acceleration
23:41and I think women have waited far too long for their time in the sun.
23:44It's time to accelerate that and Shibani, thank you, you know, for co-creating something
23:48which actually, you know, puts the spotlight on women and so subtly, where it's so acceptable
23:53to most men and most women.
23:55And when you accept, then hopefully you'll embrace in times to come.
24:00So thank you, the three of you.
24:01I'm going to ask you one quick question.
24:02Many would say we've been speaking about feminism but, you know, what's wrong in that?
24:06If you had to prepare a dabba because it's dabba kata, Shabana ji, let's say for your
24:11husband, what would be in that dabba?
24:15Shami kebab and aloo gosht.
24:17Shami kebab and aloo gosht.
24:20If he had to put one for you, prepare one for you, what will be in it?
24:25First tier samosa, second tier samosa, third tier samosa.
24:29We've got to give Shabana ji some samosa in the backstage.
24:32Jyotika?
24:33For Surya, yeah, Surya, what would be your dabba for Surya?
24:38I think it will be the staple South Indian breakfast, which we both love and I think
24:45sharing the dabba would be very important.
24:47The same thing for you then.
24:48So we'll pack the same thing for you.
24:49Do you remember?
24:50Dosa, sambar, chutney, vada, pongal, everything.
24:51Shabana, you've thought over what would it be for Farhan?
24:55I have.
24:56Farhan is very easy that way.
24:58One layer would be paya, second layer would be mutton biryani and the third would be vanilla
25:03ice cream.
25:04And if he has to prepare a dabba for you?
25:06One layer would be chocolate chip cookies, the second layer would be donuts, the third
25:10layer would be French fries.
25:11All right, we're going to quickly break for some samosas now but once again, you know,
25:15the subtlety with the way you've all done it.
25:19Thank you for doing it.
25:21I appreciate it.
25:22I think we all appreciate it.
25:23Thank you so much for having us.
25:24Ladies and gentlemen, do watch Dabba Kartal already, number one on Netflix.
25:27Raise a warm applause.
25:28Shabana Azmi, Jyotika, Shabani Akhtar.
25:29Shabana Azmi, Jyotika, Shabani Akhtar.
25:30Shabana Azmi, Jyotika, Shabani Akhtar.
25:31Shabana Azmi, Jyotika, Shabani Akhtar.
25:32Shabana Azmi, Jyotika, Shabani Akhtar.