As the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) removed Pakistan from the Grey List for its "significant improvements in the counter-terrorist financing" framework, the most widely acknowledged base of the terror outfit, Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) in Bahawalpur, was undergoing a major expansion.
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00:00February 2025, Jaish-e-Muhammad base in Bahawalpur expands.
00:17Less than three years after October 2022, when Pakistan was removed from the Financial
00:24Action Task Force Greylist, India today exposes terror's expanding footprint across Pakistan.
00:45Even as terror strikes Bannu in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan claims responsibility.
01:00Explosion of terror in whitelisted Pakistan is our top focus on India First.
01:10Good evening on India First, I want you to see some images that we are putting out on our television screens.
01:16This mosque that you see on your television screen, the mosque and the compound of that maulana of terror, Masood Azhar.
01:24He is a founder of a banned UN designated terrorist organization, Jaish-e-Muhammad.
01:31Now this is barely, barely six kilometers from the Bahawalpur army containment.
01:37It's barely 10 kilometers from the Bahawalpur airbase.
01:41Now it's often referred to in intelligence parlance as the new Abbottabad.
01:47Remember Abbottabad? That's where Osama bin Laden was hidden by Pakistan army in plain sight.
01:55That was barely just a couple of kilometers away from Pakistan military academy in Kakul, Abbottabad.
02:01Pakistan very clearly tries to keep its terrorists or strategic assets close to military bases.
02:09But then, keep in mind, Pakistan does not hesitate to sell them to the United States of America like it did in the case of Mohammed Sharifullah,
02:19a wanted terrorist in connection with the 2022 Abigail bombing at Kabul airbase.
02:26Now that happened in 2021 and 13 US security personnel were killed in that terrorist strike.
02:33Pakistan had kept its strategic assets close. Now when there's a new president in the United States of America, Donald Trump,
02:40so as Nasrana, that's given by a vassal state, they very clearly handed over a terrorist to the United States.
02:48US is happy, it's given them some money, Pakistan is happy, terrorism will continue as an industry in Pakistan.
02:55Ankit Kumar and Arvind Ojha bring you our top story.
03:18A terrorist group affiliated with Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan claimed responsibility for the attack at a military base in Bannu in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
03:49Thousands of mourners attended the funeral prayers of the victims of the twin suicide bombings.
03:56But Pakistan hasn't stopped support to terror.
04:18An India Today special investigation by the Open Source Intelligence or OSINT team has exposed how Pakistan continues to remain a fertile breeding ground for radical Islamist terror.
04:44In October 2022, the Financial Action Task Force or FATF removed Pakistan from its grey list, apparently for improving counter-terror financing.
05:00But this, even as a UN-designated banned terrorist organization, the Jaish-e-Mohammed's Bahawalpur base was undergoing massive yet silent expansion.
05:14Satellite imagery provided to India Today by Damien Simon, a geo-intelligence researcher at the Intel Lab, indicates that the Subhan-Allah Mosque has doubled in size to over 18 acres, nearly twice its original footprint since its construction in 2011-12.
05:40Despite its well-documented links to Jaish, technically banned by the Pakistani government, the previously known Usman-o-Ali campus continues to be brazenly used by the radical terrorist organization, not just for recruitment but also for fundraising.
06:01The upgraded compound appears to feature multiple new buildings, a mosque and even stables.
06:09The latest satellite image, dated January 10, 2025, confirms that construction is still ongoing at the site.
06:19Investigations revealed that Bahawalpur Centre is frequently visited by Rauf Asghar, Maulana Masood Azhar's brother and Jaish-e-Mohammed's de facto operations chief.
06:34Meanwhile, Talha Al Saif leads Jaish-e-Mohammed's outreach and propaganda division and is often seen at fundraising events here.
06:45Designated a global terrorist, Maulana Masood Azhar, who is also the founder of Jaish-e-Mohammed, resurfaced on the 27th of June 2024, attending a wedding ceremony and addressed a gathering.
07:03All this adds up to only one conclusion, that the Financial Action Task Force removal of Pakistan from its grey list in 2022 has only given radical Islamist terror a free hand to expand in Pakistan.
07:20With Ankit Kumar, Bureau Report, India Today.
07:32Sushant Sareen, senior fellow at the Observer Research Foundation, joins me on this special broadcast. Mona is a senior journalist in Pakistan.
07:39But before I come to Mona and Sushant, I quickly want to cut across to India Today's Open Source Intelligence team editor, Ankit Kumar, joining me on the show.
07:48Ankit, FATF removed Pakistan from grey list. Apparently, the activities within Pakistan from 2022 to 2024 have actually increased and it's caught on camera and satellite images.
08:03What more can you tell us? What more have you and your team been able to gather?
08:09Well, Gaurav, when the Financial Action Task Force two years back decided to remove Pakistan from the grey list, one would have considered that Pakistan had enough reasons to believe that it was doing enough to curtail terror financing.
08:24In fact, if you go through the official release by FATF, it says that Pakistan had done enough to curtail terror financing.
08:32Now, cut to 2025. The satellite pictures show that over the past two and a half years, the speed of construction at Jaish-e-Mohammad's very well-established headquarter has actually doubled.
08:46The area has doubled over the years, and we can see a well-thought-out preparation to house as many occupants as possible.
08:55So this is a willful blindness on part of the authorities. Bahawalpur is very interesting. There's a good reason why it is called New Abbottabad.
09:03Six kilometres from Pak Army cantonment, 10 kilometres from Air Force Base. So it is a very strategic location.
09:11It is not happening under any kind of accident. It is a well-planned structure. Everybody knows it with full blessing of Pakistani establishment.
09:20Okay, stay with me. I want to bring Mona Alam and Sushant Sareen into this conversation.
09:26Terror right now is bleeding Pakistan along that AfPak border, yet terror is expanding its footprints in the heart of Pakistan's Punjab province,
09:35be it Bahawalpur, where Jaish-e-Mohammad has its headquarters, or Muridke, where Lashkar-e-Taiba has its headquarters.
09:41Now, I want to understand, Pakistan is cash-starved, so it's handing over one more terrorist to the United States, perhaps, as Nasrana.
09:49Nasrana is usually paid by a vassal state to an emperor, in this case, President Donald Trump.
09:55The question is, will Pakistan be let off the hook? Will Pakistan continue to nurture terrorist organizations like Jaish-e-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Taiba?
10:03Sushant Sareen, before I bring in Mona, Pakistan has successfully, the way I'd look at it, pulled wool over the eyes of the Financial Action Task Force and global terror watchdogs.
10:16The moment it got off the grey list, Jaish-e-Mohammad expansion project was launched in Bahawalpur.
10:22So, how does Pakistan manage to do this year after year?
10:26Yeah, well, Gaurav, it manages to do this because the other parties do not take these, the commitments that Pakistan makes, they take Pakistan at face value.
10:38Now, do you know the irony is that the FATF had two test cases.
10:42One was Sajid Mir and we've discussed about it, how the Pakistanis said Sajid Mir had died and then they literally dug up a grave and finally produced him alive, the first resurrection after Jesus Christ Almighty, right?
10:53Then the second test case was Jaish-e-Mohammad chief Masood Azad.
10:59And the Pakistanis feigned ignorance at that point of time that we have no idea where the hell this guy is.
11:04In fact, somebody like Shah Mahmood Qureshi who was their then foreign minister went on to the extent of saying, first he said that he's in some hospital, he's about to die or something.
11:13And then he says that we actually don't know where the hell this guy is.
11:16Now, he's clearly living under their nose, but they don't want to actually put their hands on him for a couple of reasons.
11:23One of the reasons is, and one second, on the FATF, I think, you know, we very often misunderstand what the FATF is all about.
11:30The FATF mandates that countries take certain mechanisms to ensure that terror financing can be monitored and can be curbed.
11:39Now, what happens, state itself promotes terror financing and allows terror groups to continue doing their business, albeit under the radar screen,
11:48which is what has happened in this particular case with this massive expansion of this mosque complex.
11:53Now, in the case of Jaish-e-Mohammad guy, he has some uses for, partly the Pakistani state is terrified of the guy.
12:01They tried to put hands on the Lal Masjid cleric and look what has happened in the room.
12:06It's clearly related to what happened in Lal Masjid.
12:09Imagine if they tried and put their hands on this guy, Jaish-e-Mohammad chief, what will happen to them?
12:15So, they're terrified.
12:16That's a very interesting point and I'll take that with Mona in just a moment.
12:19But Mona, you know, even as we speak, Pakistan is burying soldiers and civilians killed in that suicide attack at Bannu.
12:28And yet, a bleeding Pakistan in the Aztec region appears to be encouraging terror in the heart of Pakistan, in Bahawalpur and in Muridke.
12:39So, is Pakistan unable or unwilling to act against Jaish-e-Mohammad, a UN designated banned terrorist organization?
12:47Thanks a lot, Gaurav.
12:50Actually, you know, I think this has been rightly put here on the debate already that Pakistan is presently a victim.
12:57And when I say that, we're in a very severe position when I say that.
13:01We're facing casualties every day, day in, day out.
13:04And of course, I mean, Pakistan happens to be a victim of terrorism itself.
13:08And the situation these days has become worse.
13:11I think the same has been spelled by Mr. Sushant Sareen and yourself as well.
13:15This is a very factual position that we are facing here.
13:17And, you know, the kind of casualties and the kind of terrorism that we are facing these days is only at the hands of people who are hand in glove with the present Afghan government.
13:29And also, unfortunately, you know, the Indians have also been honeymooning with them recently.
13:35And they've found this newfound love in the Afghan Taliban regime there.
13:40So, I mean, irony has many faces.
13:44And this is one of its stark most faces.
13:46But my question to you, Mona, was very specific about Jaish-e-Mohammad in Bahawalpur.
13:51Yeah, I know.
13:52And Lashkar-e-Taiba in Muridke.
13:54Is Pakistan scared?
13:56The moment Pakistan went after the Lal Masjid cleric, Pakistan burnt and continued to burn.
14:02Is Pakistan scared?
14:03In case it goes after Jaish-e-Mohammad in Bahawalpur, then Pakistan's Punjab province will burn.
14:09If it goes after Muridke, Lashkar-e-Taiba in Muridke, then there is no Pakistan left.
14:15Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammad are more powerful than your army.
14:18Well, I tell you what, Gaurav, this will always just be a dream of haters of Pakistan that Pakistan will be no more.
14:25Pakistan will always be there and it has indeed always been there.
14:29Despite, you know, enemies staring at it right at its face and snakes in its own backyard.
14:35The Pakistan of 1947 does not exist in Pakistan of 2024.
14:40You lost East Pakistan and now there is an apprehension.
14:43You could lose either Khyber Pakhtunkhwa or your own Maulana Fazlur Rahman said in your parliament that you could lose six to eight districts of Balochistan.
14:54Well, yes, the situation at Balochistan, situation in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa is very serious and it's growing serious day by day.
15:02I second that, of course, there is some some very serious elements.
15:06There are some very serious insurgencies happening right at the heart of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa or Balochistan.
15:11But I tell you what, it has nothing to do with the political rhetoric out here.
15:15That's just for an opposition.
15:17And it's more of a political statement, which opposition in our country is making these days.
15:22It has nothing to do with reality.
15:24I mean, reality is far, far from it.
15:26But having said that, your topic of the day speaks only about the expansion of one's own house.
15:32Yes, you can say that, you know, there may be a lot of ifs and buts,
15:36given that given the fact that the fellow himself was on UN proscribed and even Pakistan's proscribed lists of persons.
15:43So, yes, but it at the end of the day, it only is about the expansion of a particular individual's house here.
15:52I tell you what, it is a difficult political situation and it is a difficult political decision that Pakistan has taken in the past.
16:00Right. Like you mentioned rightly about Lal Masjid and the operation that that happened.
16:06There was a lot of. I want to bring in Sushant Sareen.
16:09It is a difficult, it is a difficult political decision.
16:12But does Pakistan have the will, is the question.
16:16Does Pakistan have the will, Sushant Sareen, because it appears to be a very deadly Russian roulette,
16:21you know, that that Russian roulette game that Pakistan is playing, their generals are playing with the lives of Pakistanis.
16:27So first they train, arm and launch terrorists, whether it's in India or in Afghanistan.
16:32One such terrorist, Sharifullah, responsible, Mohammad Sharifullah, responsible for killing of 13 US personnel at the Hamid Karzai International Airport in 2021.
16:41Now, Pakistan hands over the same Mohammad Sharifullah apparently to US to get some 400 odd million dollars.
16:49Will it become another Lal Masjid kind of incident or they'll get away with murder like they did in the past?
16:54Okay, Gaurav, I'll make five or six very quick points. Number one on this whole Sharifullah thing.
16:58Look, this is an old playbook of the Pakistanis. You know, this very treacherous kind of a thing that what every time there's a big visit or a big event,
17:06they present a nazrana to the Americans. They did it for 20 years when the Americans were in Afghanistan.
17:12They're continuing with the same playbook now. Secondly, Pakistan is not a victim of terrorism.
17:17Pakistan believes it can still use terrorists because the Jaish-e-Mohammad are good terrorists, right?
17:23They are the good jihadis. They are the jihadis who fight for Pakistan, apparently.
17:27Because they are also being deployed in Kashmir, albeit under different labels, PAFF and stuff like that.
17:33But the thing is that the Pakistanis still believe in the good versus bad and that is why what is happening in Pakistan is nothing more than collateral damage.
17:42Whether it's the soldiers who are getting killed or the civilians who are getting killed, you go and shed a couple of tears and that's the end of it.
17:49Nobody gives a damn for what is happening because the Pakistan army is more interested in capturing Islamabad
17:56and putting the judges and the journalists and everybody else in jail and sealing their mouths.
18:01Their press can't even report on terrorism events very clearly and openly. They can't report on it.
18:07Partly because it will give a bad image to Pakistan. So that is another point which is happening.
18:12The third point is that, you know, this whole reality business that Mona is talking about, the reality is what Fazlur Rahman was saying.
18:20In fact, the reality is worse than what Fazlur Rahman was saying. There are many districts, many, many districts, not just in Balochistan,
18:27but also in KP where the state's writ has ceased to exist. The state only is there for a show in the morning.
18:36The night time is entirely controlled by the militants and the terrorists and the freedom fighters, the Baloch freedom fighters.
18:43We saw that very recently in that Shia-Sunni violence or when Shias were massacred, Mona, who knows better than you?
18:50150, if I remember correctly, is the latest casualty figure in that violence that took place.
18:58And Pakistan army is now telling people only travel in a convoy, only travel on certain days, otherwise don't travel.
19:05Shias are killing Sunnis in retaliation for Sunnis killing Shias. But I want to understand the bigger picture, Mona, because this does appear very devious.
19:13You know, even if we were to understand that Pakistan is a victim of terror, which Sushant Sareen very clearly doesn't believe,
19:19Sharifullah handed over to US right now, you know, the Nasrana that we were talking about, from Ramzi Yusuf to Majid Khan,
19:28how many names should we recount of terrorists being handed over to the US every time Pakistan needed money or weapons from the United States?
19:37Look, it has nothing to do with Pakistan needing anything. The point here is that I second the situation here.
19:44Firstly, I'd like to rebut this. I don't know where he's coming from. I think he's just following some PTI Twitter handles, Mr. Sushant.
19:51I thought he's a very well-researched fellow, but I failed to, you know, abide by that given his present statement on political happenings here in the country.
20:01He says that the army and, you know, this is a political rhetoric here. This is what the opposition is trying to say by and large.
20:09Of course, in their own favor, but it has nothing to do with reality. I mean, I do a primetime program here in Pakistan.
20:16We've often spoken about terrorism and the surge in terrorist activities there on the primetime channel and the programs.
20:23We tried to build a consensus. You know what, I'll try to paint a realistic picture here.
20:31We have launched an operation called Azme Istekam and I do reckon with the fact that, you know, there is not enough consensus on the matter.
20:40There is not enough social consensus. There is not enough, there is insufficient political consensus on the matter.
20:45And that is where we are lacking. This is what we are trying to, you know, propagate through whatever means that we have that, you know, people should sit together.
20:53People should put their differences aside and they should sit for the country because the situation, as you've rightly pointed out, is extremely severe in the country.
21:01And, you know, there is this insurgency is happening every now and then. We cannot afford to harbor another such fellow.
21:08And yet you do. Jaish-e-Mohammad is a banned terrorist organization. It's a UN-designated terrorist organization.
21:14Masood Azhar is a UN-designated banned terrorist. So is Hafiz Mohammed Saeed, who leads the Eid Namaz at the Gaddafi Stadium,
21:21the same Gaddafi Stadium where Pakistan, unfortunately, will not be playing the final.
21:25And the final, unfortunately, for Pakistan is not even being held, a champion's trophy in Pakistan. But that's a separate story.
21:31But, Sushant Sareen, last word to you. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, principal architect 9-11 attacks caught in Rawalpindi.
21:38Why is every terrorist caught in Pakistan from Osama bin Laden to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed?
21:42And that happened in 2003. Abu Zubaydah, Ramzi Yusuf, Ramzi bin Shah are captured in Karachi.
21:48Which part of Pakistan doesn't have terrorists, Sushant Sareen?
21:52But, look, that is precisely the point. Despite the fact that hundreds of terrorists have been caught inside Pakistan,
22:00they've been found in Pakistan, they've got safe havens in Pakistan, Pakistan pleads that it's victim.
22:05But, look, let me just correct Mona Alam since she is such a well-read journalist and so clued in.
22:11She says Azme-istikam operation is ongoing. I don't know. I think the Pakistan army itself has clarified that Azme-istikam is not even an operation.
22:19It's a strategy. And Mona Alam calls it an operation. So, maybe she needs a fact-checking of her own, number one.
22:27Number two, I don't know what Mona Alam is saying that I don't know much about what is happening in Islamabad.
22:33Haven't the judges written that the ISI and other goons of the Pakistani military have been threatening them?
22:40Capturing their families, intimidating judges.
22:43It's with the court. It's in the epics court. It will be taken up.
22:49Judges have said that. Not political parties. Not Imran Khan. Judges are saying that.
22:54Okay. I've run out of time on this part of the show.
22:57Sushant Sarin and Mona Alam, this is a very interesting debate and over the next several days, we shall continue.
23:03I've unfortunately run out of time on this part of the show today.