The Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) report on Delhi's liquor policy was tabled in the Delhi Assembly on Tuesday, highlighting a claimed Rs 2000 crore revenue loss.
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00:00Hello and welcome, you're with the news today, your primetime destination, news, newsmakers,
00:07talking points, news without the noise, our effort to redefine primetime news, focus on
00:13the stories that matter, our top talking point, the comptroller and auditor general report
00:19on the alleged Delhi liquor scam suggests a major revenue loss, as it put the Aam Aadmi
00:25party on the back foot, the former Delhi chief minister Atishi is among my newsmakers tonight,
00:32let's get kicking first with the 9 headlines at 9 tonight, PAG report on the liquor scam
00:41tabled in the Delhi assembly report claims excise contracts led to 2000 crore revenue
00:47loss under KGWAL, KGWAL government, ARP says the new liquor policy was better than the
00:53old, demands a probe against LGCBI, an enforcement directorate, former congress member of parliament
01:03Sanjan Kumar sentenced to life in jail in the 1984 anti Sikh riots case, convicted for
01:08leading a mob and inciting to kill, Tamil Nadu chief minister MK Stalin calls for an
01:17all party meeting on the 5th of March, warns that the state could lose 8 MPs due to delimitation
01:23based on population control policies, continues to attack the centre for its language policy
01:30which he claims is anti Tamil, rescuers still battle to pull out 8 workers who are stuck
01:40inside a Telangana tunnel for over 72 hours, this after a portion of the tunnel collapsed
01:47on February 22nd in Telangana's Nagarkudnur district, after Lokayu clean chit to chief
01:57minister Sidharam Iyer in the Muda scam, BJP now raises questions over probe report demands
02:04a CBI inquiry to uncover the mystery of political pressure on officers, it's a confession that
02:13sends Kerala police into a tizzy, 23 year old walks into a police station in a suburb
02:19of Kerala's Thiruvananthapuram saying he killed 5 people including his grandmother, girlfriend
02:24and 13 year old brother, US president Donald Trump and French president Emmanuel Macron
02:32display stark differences in their approach to Ukraine, expose divide between US and Europe
02:38over Trump's bid for a quick ceasefire deal with Russia, the US is seen to back Russia
02:44in the United Nations, Bangladeshi student leaders who led protests that ousted Sheikh
02:51Hasina said to launch a new political party, Nahid Islam expected to lead the party as
02:56convener, and Australia versus South Africa game in the champions trophy called off due
03:04to rain, this leaves group, we be wide open with all four teams still having a chance
03:09to qualify for the semi finals.
03:31But our top story, for the last couple of years the alleged Delhi liquor policy scam
03:37has reverberated across the national capital and has had huge political implications, many
03:44believe that it was one of the major reasons why Arvind Kejriwal's Aam Aadmi party lost
03:50after a decade in power in the national capital, well today the Delhi chief minister Rekha
03:56Gupta of the BJP tabled the CAG report on that excise policy, the report did highlight
04:03glaring lapses in policy making and estimated the revenue losses suffered by the government
04:09over more than 2000 crores, here are some of the big talking points, the total revenue
04:15loss is pegged at 2002 crore rupees, the report says manufacturers were given wholesale licenses
04:22which ended up benefiting a select few, the wholesaler margin increased from 5% to 12%,
04:28there was no effective financial screening of the bidders and this increased the possibility
04:33of proxy ownership and the policy led to the formation of liquor cartels and monopolies,
04:39expert panels recommendations were ignored and changes in policy were made by a group
04:44of ministers and the major decisions were taken without cabinet approval or consultation
04:50with the LG, all of this of course has put the Aam Aadmi party government that was in
04:55power in Delhi between 2014 and 24 on the back foot but the Aam Aadmi party insists
05:03that actually the CAG report is making a distinction between the old policy and the new one and
05:09says the old policy which was implemented before they came to power was actually making
05:15the revenue losses, take a look at our top story,
05:30the Delhi liquor gate policy war reignites, the CAG report on the contentious liquor policy
05:37was tabled in the assembly on Tuesday by the newly minted BJP government,
05:45I present the report of the year 2024 on Sadan Patal,
05:56India Today accessed exclusive details of the CAG report which shows alleged loopholes
06:01in the Kejriwal era excise policy, the CAG report pegged the loss due to the liquor policy
06:07at over 2000 crore rupees, as per the report the control of licenses was held by only few
06:15members and the excise policy risked monopoly and creation of curtains, the report says
06:21policy decisions were taken without the competent authorities not and permissions were not obtained
06:27for any license exemptions, the new policy not only violated norms by granting licenses
06:33to private entities but also removed the role of Delhi government corporations,
06:39the CAG report also explains how the massive losses were incurred,
06:49the total loss to exchequer from the implementation of excise policy was over 2000 crore rupees,
06:56of this a loss of 941 crore rupees was due to zonal license exemptions and another 890
07:03crore rupees loss due to non-tendering of retail licenses.
07:33The Aam Aadmi Party claims no proof yet has been found to back the claims.
08:03A total of 14 CAG reports are expected to be tabled this session, including one of the
08:20Chief Minister's official residence of Six Flag Staff or Shesh Mahal as BJP calls it
08:27which was renovated during Arvind Kejriwal's rule, the political storm is only intensifying
08:34in the capital, Bureau report India Today.
08:57Rajdeep, for anyone who says that there is a 2002 crore rupee loss to the exchequer,
09:21clearly hasn't read the CAG report and has only read the pointers that have come from
09:27either the BJP headquarters or the Prime Minister's office.
09:30The eight chapters of the CAG report, seven chapters are on the old excise policy that
09:37the Aam Aadmi Party government repeatedly said needs to be put out, needs to be changed.
09:43The CAG report repeatedly says that the old excise policy was causing loss to the exchequer,
09:49the old excise policy, the pricing was being manipulated, there was a lot of black sale
09:56of liquor happening, there was a lot of smuggling happening of liquor from Haryana and Uttar Pradesh
10:01and that policy needed to go, number one.
10:04Number two, the CAG report clearly says that the new policy brought in by the Aam Aadmi
10:10Party government was more transparent, was going to put an end to the sale of liquor
10:15in black and would have increased government revenues.
10:18Three, they clearly say that the new policy was not implemented properly and that is why
10:26the target, the revenue target, the high revenue target set by the new excise policy wasn't achieved.
10:32Why was this policy not implemented?
10:35Because of three flares.
10:38Lieutenant Governor who disrupted the policy again and again.
10:42Number two, the CAG who filed an FIR right in the middle of the policy implementation
10:48and number three, the ED.
10:50So let us be very clear.
10:52If the CAG report indicts anyone, it is the BJP's, the central government's nominee,
10:59the Lieutenant Governor, the central government's agency, the CBI and the central government's
11:05because they are the ones responsible for all the implementation of what the CAG calls.
11:11No, no, Aatish, one minute.
11:13You know, you are saying eight chapters.
11:15The findings that I have also, I have read the report, policy risks creating cartels,
11:20license control in a few hands, norms violated to give contracts.
11:25Now, this is also part of the new policy.
11:27You are making it old liquor policy versus new.
11:30The CAG report when referring to the new policy clearly suggests that there were anomalies
11:35which you cannot escape, it was your government.
11:37If you read the 208 pages of the report, 80% of the report is about the problems with the old liquor policy.
11:53How there was a lot of sale of liquor in black,
11:56how there was smuggling of liquor inside Delhi from Haryana and Uttar Pradesh,
12:00how the cost of the liquor, there was no checks and balances
12:05and therefore the base cost of the liquor upon which the profit was being calculated
12:12was many, many times higher than what was being sold in other parts of the country.
12:16So, CAG underlines the fact that the old liquor policy,
12:23No, no, but Aatish, you brought in a new liquor policy and there were anomalies,
12:27irregularities in that policy which are also the subject of a senior inquiry.
12:31So, you are making it about old versus new.
12:33You will have to justify the implementation of a new liquor policy and why that liquor policy failed.
12:40Absolutely, and that is exactly what I am talking about.
12:45The excise revenue in 2020-21 was 4100 crores with the old liquor policy.
12:56With the new liquor policy, the projected revenue was more than two times.
13:01It was 9000 crores. Why? Because it was a better policy.
13:05It was preventing smuggling of liquor into Delhi.
13:08It was preventing the under-the-table sale of liquor that prevented revenue from coming in.
13:15Now, why was this liquor policy which has led to thousands of crores of increase in revenue in Punjab,
13:22the same liquor policy, why did it not lead to the same revenue increase in Delhi?
13:27Why was the projected revenue not increased?
13:30Because during the implementation of the policy, the LG repeatedly threw spanners in the works
13:36and did not let adequate number of liquor stores be opened, number one.
13:39Number two, in between the implementation of the liquor policy, the CBI-FIR was filed.
13:46In another month, the ED-FIR was filed.
13:49Obviously, the liquor policy could not be implemented after an ED and CBI-FIR has been filed.
13:56Because those ED and CBI-FIRs suggest there were irregularities.
14:02I don't think it's a question of the new excise policy.
14:07The new excise policy had its merits. The question is in the way it was implemented.
14:12And that's where the corruption allegedly took place.
14:15The new excise policy had not even been implemented for 7 months by the time the CBI-FIR happened.
14:25It had not even been implemented for 8 months.
14:28When the ECIR happened, any new policy has its implementation hiccups.
14:36More so in Delhi where the Lieutenant Governor was repeatedly throwing spanners in the works.
14:41I can do a proper audit of GST.
14:45The number of times GST implementation had to be changed.
14:51Every GST council meeting, you have new taxes imposed, you have new taxes revoked.
14:56Sometimes 18%, sometimes 12%, sometimes 28%.
15:00No, you have to file GST in an aggregate manner.
15:05No, you have to file GST in a segregated manner.
15:08There have been at least 2,000 GST notifications to improve the implementation of the GST from the first day when it was launched.
15:20More than 2,000 notifications.
15:23Will you say that it was badly implemented?
15:25No, it takes time for any new law to be implemented.
15:29It takes time for any new policy to be implemented.
15:33The new liquor policy was in the process of implementation.
15:367 months into a new policy, the Central Bureau of Investigation files an FIR.
15:419 months into the new liquor policy, the ED files an ECIR.
15:45Obviously.
15:46So no officer is going to sign a file after that.
15:49Once an FIR has been filed by the CBI, once an ECIR has been filed by the Enforcement Directorate,
15:55will any bureaucrat in this country sign a file of that policy?
16:01Of course they would not.
16:02Many of their batchmates had FIRs filed against them.
16:08So I stand by the fact that the new liquor policy was a transparent, revenue-increasing policy,
16:17has done so in Punjab.
16:19I would be happy to share the figures with you of how the liquor policy has, in fact…
16:26Atishi, most neutral observers will say yes, the new ECIR's policy could have generated more revenues.
16:34You've given the example of Punjab.
16:36There are others who will give the example of Haryana.
16:38The question is not new versus old.
16:40The question also is, and this is the point that the BJP is making,
16:44that as a result of this new policy, there was cartelization,
16:48there were benefits given to the so-called South Cartel according to the ED-CBI inquiries
16:54that eventually led to the jailing of your leaders, including your leader Arvind Kejriwal.
16:59So their claim is that money was then used for elections in Goa and Punjab.
17:05Let's be very clear, Rajdeep, Rajdeep, Rajdeep, Rajdeep, Rajdeep,
17:09nothing like this is in the CAG report, which is why I also doubt the fact…
17:13Not the CAG report, I said CBI and ED, I said CBI and ED are fires.
17:18Nothing, nothing like this, nothing like this is in the CAG report.
17:25Whatever you are talking about, none of this is in the CAG report.
17:29And as far as the ED and CBI are concerned,
17:32I think we only need to look at Arvind Kejriwal's bail judgment,
17:36where the Supreme Court says that these central agencies are acting like caged parrots
17:40and not acting independently.
17:43So I think we don't really need to talk about the CBI and ED,
17:46enough has been said about that, enough has been said by the Supreme Court about that.
17:50Let that case go to trial.
17:52But as far as the CAG is concerned, CAG report says nothing about cartelization,
17:59CAG report says nothing of the sort that you have been talking about.
18:03CAG report spends 80% of its pages talking about how the old policy
18:11was leading to bootlegging of liquor,
18:14how the old policy was leading to the selling of liquor in black,
18:17of smuggling of liquor in from Haryana and Uttar Pradesh needed to be changed,
18:21about how the new policy was a transparent one
18:25and how it would have prevented sale of liquor in black.
18:28And number three, that there were problems in implementation
18:32which led to the liquor policy, new liquor policy,
18:35not reaching its own projected targets.
18:39Rajdeep, it still generated more revenue than the old liquor policy.
18:43This is the most interesting thing.
18:45In 2020-21, 4,100 crores was the revenue generated by the old liquor policy.
18:52In 2021-22, the new liquor policy, you know Rajdeep, you have to hear this,
18:57more than 5,000 crores was generated as excise revenue.
19:03That means with the new liquor policy,
19:06the revenue of the Delhi government actually increased.
19:10It did not reach the targets that the policy per se had planned.
19:14It did not reach the targets that we ourselves had hoped it would.
19:17It did not reach the targets as we have reached in Punjab.
19:20But it still increased the revenues of the Delhi government.
19:25This is exactly what the CAG report says.
19:27So I would request you and your viewers,
19:30not just to read the pointers that are coming out of the Prime Minister's office
19:34or the BJP's own writing.
19:36I am not reading. No, no. Atishi, this is the second time you mentioned that.
19:39I am reading out specific pages.
19:42Look, we can all look at particular aspects of the report.
19:45One of the more controversial findings,
19:47144 crore waiver granted to licensees for the period between December 28, 2021,
19:53January 27, 2022, citing COVID-19 restrictions.
19:58The CAG noted that this waiver went against the excise department's own stance,
20:03leading to further revenue loss.
20:09And this Rajdeep was based on multiple orders of the high court
20:13that had asked for deposits to be returned,
20:16not just in Delhi, but in Tamil Nadu, but in Uttar Pradesh,
20:20but also in Maharashtra, in COVID times.
20:24There were multiple orders of multiple high courts that said
20:28that when deposits were made during COVID times,
20:32but shops could not be opened, deposits had to be returned.
20:36This was not just an order of one high court.
20:39Similar orders came out of Delhi High Court, Bombay High Court, Madras High Court.
20:43Repeatedly, high courts gave those orders for COVID times.
20:47So therefore, my suggestion is, as I said, read the whole report in totality.
20:52Report very clearly says old policy needed to go.
20:56New policy needed to be brought in.
20:58New policy was good. Implementation did not happen properly.
21:02And since implementation did not happen properly,
21:05the three agencies and the three institutions that need to be investigated
21:10are the Office of the Lieutenant Governor, the Central Bureau of Investigation,
21:14and the Enforcement Directorate.
21:16Because they are the ones responsible for the loss to the institution.
21:20Otherwise, how?
21:22This is your imputation, my limited point.
21:25And I want to end on this, which is the politics.
21:28The fact is that the CAG reports have been presented since 2017-18,
21:35many of them in the last four years.
21:37But when you were in power, you chose not to table them in the assembly.
21:41If, as you're saying, you had nothing to hide, why not table it?
21:45You see, the optics, as we saw even with the UPA government,
21:48when it came to the 2G CAG report, the optics turned against them.
21:53Now we've got a government which says they're going to table them one by one.
21:56The next one likely to be on the alleged mismanagement of the public transport,
22:00the free bus rides, and the imputation that that also led to revenue losses.
22:06I just want to understand, if you are so confident that you have nothing to hide,
22:11why not just table that CAG report when you were in power?
22:14That could have been doodh ka doodh, paani ka paani moment.
22:21No, but we did. We tabled multiple CAG reports.
22:24CAG reports were tabled in 2021, 2022, 2023.
22:27Not on the liquor scam.
22:29So CAG reports have been tabled.
22:31Alleged liquor scam.
22:32No, but this report just came a few months ago.
22:35This report just came a few months ago.
22:38So these reports get tabled as a routine matter.
22:41Rajdeep, let us not get led astray by the propaganda of the Bharatiya Janata Party.
22:47This liquor policy is the one, and I would like to share this data with you.
22:51In Punjab, the revenue in the financial year 2021-22,
22:58you had a 6,100 crore rupee excise revenue,
23:02which in the current financial year with the new liquor policy,
23:06has surpassed 10,000 crores.
23:09Why? Because you have a transparent excise policy based on auctions,
23:16based on a system whereby no selling of liquor in black can happen
23:22because upfront payments are made by license holders.
23:25The CPIEDK, those auctions were rigged.
23:28Rajdeep, let's be very clear.
23:35The CBI and ED are running as, what do you call it,
23:41frontal organizations of the Bharatiya Janata Party.
23:44You know that, I know that. Let's not pretend it is otherwise.
23:47So the case has not even after all these years gone to trial.
23:51Can we even begin to talk about what doodh ka doodh, paani ka paani is?
23:56I think the CBI report is an excellent document.
24:00I think everyone should actually read this document.
24:02The CAG report.
24:03This document actually underscores what the Aam Aadmi Party government was saying,
24:09that there was fundamental problems with the old excise policy,
24:12that the old excise policy was leading to a lot of bleeding of revenue
24:16from the Delhi government.
24:18A new policy was brought in that was more transparent.
24:21A new policy that was brought in that was based on auctions
24:24and greater higher revenues from the government.
24:27But this policy could not be implemented properly.
24:32This is the story of the new excise policy that could not be implemented.
24:37And yes, I am saying that the three institutions behind that,
24:40the Office of the Lieutenant Governor, the CBI and the ED,
24:45they are the ones who actually caused the loss to the exchequer
24:49and they must be investigated.
24:52Let me leave it there, Aatish.
24:54I can see that your voice is hoarse from all the shouting
24:58that was taking place today in the Delhi Assembly.
25:01Clearly the battle lines are drawn.
25:03You have given us your perspective
25:05and I appreciate you joining us and telling us
25:08where you and your party stand on the CAG report.
25:12Just to end by asking you, presumably therefore,
25:16neither you nor your leaders are afraid that all of this
25:20could lead to another round of inquiries
25:23and potentially the government of the day
25:27putting some of your leaders once again under prosecution.
25:31No such worries, is it?
25:36Actually, they are quite capable of doing that anyway.
25:39There was no evidence.
25:41There was not recovery of a single rupee.
25:43There were no proceeds of crime.
25:45Not one single rupee from anyone's locker, home, office, village,
25:50anything was recovered.
25:52So this entire case regarding the excise policy
25:56was one of the biggest witch hunts this country has seen.
26:00But Bharatiya Janata Party is a party that is likely to go ahead
26:06with these kind of witch hunts.
26:08It's a party that is likely to go ahead
26:10trying to suppress the opposition.
26:12It is a party that is likely to persecute the opposition,
26:15not just Aam Aadmi Party,
26:17but any opposition parties whom they see as a threat.
26:21So therefore, such witch hunts may entirely continue,
26:25such vendettas may entirely continue.
26:28That has nothing to do with these CAG reports whatsoever.
26:31In fact, as I said, this CAG report underscores
26:35what the Aam Aadmi Party has been saying for years.
26:38Okay.
26:39Aatish, for joining me on the show tonight,
26:41appreciate your joining me.
26:43Aatish, the former Delhi Chief Minister,
26:46on where the Aam Aadmi Party stands after that CAG report
26:50has been put before the Delhi Assembly.
26:52Thanks very much for joining me.
26:59The question now, of course, is what happens next,
27:02because this is not just one CAG report.
27:04There are as many as 14 CAG reports that we are told
27:07are likely to be tabled over the next few weeks and months.
27:11I want to come to our correspondent, Shreya Chatterjee.
27:13She covers the Aam Aadmi Party.
27:15Shreya, just to understand from you, what next?
27:20There are reports allegedly into the reconstruction
27:23of Arvind Kejriwal's house, the Chief Minister's house,
27:26on the transport department, on mohalla clinics.
27:29Is the BJP government planning to bring them out one by one
27:32so that you keep the pot boiling
27:34and build this narrative that the Aam Aadmi Party government
27:37has much to answer for,
27:39or the previous Aam Aadmi government has much to answer for?
27:41Is that the strategy?
27:42Well, yes, that's exactly the strategy on the part of the BJP,
27:44because what we are given to understand
27:46that initially the messaging was that two or three reports
27:48will be tabled together.
27:50Then they suggested that only one report will be tabled.
27:52That's what has been tabled today.
27:54The session has already been extended for two more days,
27:56so we will likely be seeing at least one more report be tabled,
27:59if not two.
28:01The only sense on the ground
28:03is at least a report on the mohalla clinics.
28:05That might be coming in.
28:07Also, there is a report on the vehicular emission.
28:09There was the mitigation report.
28:11That could also be coming in as well.
28:13The Sheesh Mahal one is something
28:15which they might just keep waiting
28:17because they do not want to miss out on the strategy
28:19to keep the entire thing boiling for a long time.
28:21But there are 14 total reports,
28:23five from 2022, five from 2024,
28:25and four from 2023.
28:27Because the big one
28:29that people are looking at very carefully
28:31is the Arvind Kejriwal report
28:33on construction
28:35of his chief minister's bungalow.
28:37That became a huge issue during the elections.
28:39Is the sense that you have
28:41that the BJP wants to actually
28:43now go ahead and prosecute
28:45Aam Aadmi Party leaders
28:47in other cases as well?
28:49So far, it was the Delhi liquor scam
28:51that was the focus.
28:53In the weeks and months ahead,
28:55many more Aam Aadmi Party leaders
28:57will be going after Aam Aadmi Party.
28:59That is the narrative.
29:01That is the narrative.
29:03One by one,
29:05they will definitely be going after
29:07the Aam Aadmi Party.
29:09In the Sheesh Mahal case,
29:11it is not just the report.
29:13There are cases that are preliminary
29:15inquiries by the CBI.
29:17We will be seeing
29:19simultaneous inquiries
29:21that will be going on against
29:23the Aam Aadmi Party.
29:25Just one final point.
29:27The CIG report
29:29also looks at the old liquor
29:31policies and the failures
29:33of the old liquor policy which was before
29:35the Aam Aadmi Party came to power
29:37and then compares it to the new.
29:39While there are serious questions
29:41over irregularities in the new policy,
29:43the old policy also has much
29:45to answer for, am I right?
29:47It does. It is an overall five-year analysis
29:49of the old liquor policies implemented
29:51and for the tenure of seven months
29:53that the fresh one was implemented
29:55and it talks about the anomalies
29:57in both of them.
29:59It is not just about the 2021 to the 2021.
30:01Clearly, covering the Delhi Assembly
30:03is exciting at this moment because you have
30:05got the BJP going on the offensive
30:07and you have got the Aam Aadmi Party
30:09now with its own shouting brigade.
30:11Interesting times.
30:13That is exactly what we are looking at.
30:15It is nice to see that there is
30:17something or a dialogue being exchanged
30:19by both the parties and at least
30:21they are also trying to be a constructive
30:23opposition despite facing such a heavy
30:25loss in the national capital.
30:27Are they a constructive opposition
30:29or now a shouting brigade?
30:31We will wait and see how that plays out.
30:33Shreya Chatterjee, who tracks the Aam Aadmi
30:35Party and the Delhi Assembly,
30:37thanks very much for joining me
30:39on the show today.
30:41Time to swing back to the next story
30:43because I want to stay with the national capital.
30:45It is a story which over the years
30:47I have tracked.
30:49It was in Delhi that the tragic
30:51anti-Sikh riots took place.
30:53Many would call it a pogrom.
30:55In fact, that is the way I see what happened
30:57in Delhi in 1984.
30:59More than 2,000 Sikhs, some say
31:01more than 3,000 died in those
31:03anti-Sikh riots.
31:05Finally, slowly, the wheels of justice are moving.
31:07Way too slow.
31:0941 years later, the law has finally
31:11caught up with an ex-Congress MP,
31:13Sajjan Kumar.
31:15He has been sentenced to a life term
31:17In 1984, riot survivors are still angry.
31:19They wanted the death sentence
31:21for the former Congress MP.
31:23Take a look.
31:29Justice after 41 years
31:31for 1984 anti-Sikh
31:33riot victims.
31:35Former Congress MP
31:37Sajjan Kumar has got life
31:39in jail for leading a mob
31:41that set ablaze a father-son
31:43duo in Delhi's Saraswati Vihar
31:45during the worst genocide
31:47that Delhi has seen.
32:15The mob had killed the victims,
32:17Jaswant Singh and son Tarundeep Singh
32:19on November 1st, 1984.
32:21The victim's family and prosecution
32:23had sought death penalty.
32:45The survivors of the anti-Sikh riots
32:47held protests outside Delhi's
32:49Rao's Avenue court
32:51seeking death penalty.
33:15The ruling BJP claimed that earlier
33:39Congress governments had shielded
33:41the rioters. It thanked PM
33:43Minister Narendra Modi for setting up a SIT and ensuring justice.
34:14It was a great pain for us that we couldn't get justice even if we wanted to.
34:18I believe that this is a news that will definitely give us satisfaction.
34:4441 years. Think about it.
34:48Should it take that long to prosecute and eventually sentence a former MP?
34:55It says much about just how the wheels of justice sometimes in this country
35:01move too slowly, way too slowly in such cases.
35:06No one will forget the horrors of 1984.
35:10Let me turn from 1984 to what's happening in Tamil Nadu today
35:15where Tamil Nadu Chief Minister MK Stalling is upping the ante against the centre.
35:20He's now called for an all-party meeting in his state to discuss
35:24the contentious issue of delimitation, warning that this could lead
35:29to a dilution in the rights of Tamil Nadu's political representation.
35:34This comes on the back of the Tamil Nadu government confronting
35:37the centre over the new education policy and the three-language formula.
35:43Are we seeing a build-up ahead of next year's Tamil Nadu elections
35:47between Chennai and New Delhi? Take a look.
35:54MK Stalin reignites the North-South debate.
35:58Stalin has called a meeting of the 40 Tamil Nadu parties
36:01registered with the Election Commission next month
36:03to discuss the delimitation of Lok Sabha constituencies
36:07based on this year's census.
36:34Stalin's call for meet on delimitation comes just days
36:38after his face-off with the Narendra Modi government
36:41over the national education policy.
36:44The DMK's opposing implementation of the NEP
36:47which makes three-language policy mandatory,
36:50claiming it is imposition of Hindi.
36:53The face-off escalated after Union Education Minister Dharmendra Pradhan
36:57made it clear that funds under the Samagraha policy
37:00will not be disbursed till the Tamil Nadu government implements the NEP.
37:30The government of India is committed to implement NEP
37:33and there are certain conditions with NEP.
37:35If we sign this plan, we will get Rs 2000 crores.
37:40Even if we get Rs 4000 crores, we won't sign it.
37:44If we sign today, what will happen?
37:47Our Tamil Nadu will be gone after 2000 years.
37:52This Muthuvel Karunanidhi Stalin will not atone for that sin.
37:58The BJP is accusing the DMK of playing politics
38:02first on NEP and now on delimitation.
38:06Political parties are unnecessarily making controversy.
38:09I don't think people of Tamil Nadu are accepting the DMK
38:12or any other political party viewpoint.
38:14It's just a matter of time before even the DMK would be forced to accept it
38:17because the people's reaction says all.
38:19Meanwhile, DMK workers have been running campaigns this week
38:23defacing Hindi signboards at government establishments.
38:28Chief Minister Stalin has called for an all-party meeting on March 5
38:32to discuss how indeed if the delimitation exercise is implemented
38:37it could reduce Tamil Nadu's representation in the Lok Sabha.
38:41It's 39 seats at the moment and if indeed this is implemented
38:46it could bring down Tamil Nadu's representation to 31 seats, says Stalin.
38:52Pandits feel Stalin may be preparing the ground for the crucial polls
38:57by invoking Tamil Nadu pride.
38:58With Anagha Keshav, Bureau Report, India Today.
39:29...that called for a de-escalation and early secession of hostilities
39:33and a peaceful resolution.
39:35But in a stark departure from their earlier stance,
39:38the United States with a new President Donald Trump
39:40voted against the resolution,
39:42effectively aligning with Russia for the first time since the war started.
39:47When it came to the vote, Ukraine's version passed by 93 votes to 18.
39:52The US voted against it alongside Russia.
39:5465 countries including India and China abstained.
39:58The stark differences in US and Europe's approach to the Russia-Ukraine war
40:02were also on full display when French President Emmanuel Macron
40:07fact-checked Donald Trump in real time
40:09during their joint media briefing at the White House.
40:13As the US President was answering a question about Europe's funding to Ukraine,
40:17Macron grabbed Trump's arm to interrupt him and issued a fact-check.
40:22Just take a look at what happened in that meeting first between Macron and Trump.
40:52...as a collateral of a loan because this is not our belonging.
40:56So they are frozen.
40:58If at the end of the day the negotiation we will have with Russia,
41:01they're ready to give it to us, super.
41:04It will be known at the end of the day and Russia will have paid for that.
41:07If you believe that, it's okay with me.
41:09If they get their money back, we don't, and now we do.
41:12But, you know, that's only fair.
41:15I just want to tell you a little story.
41:17So we were at the Eiffel Tower having dinner with your wonderful wife
41:20and with my wonderful wife.
41:22And we came out and he started speaking the French deal.
41:26And we didn't have an interpreter and he was going on and on and on
41:30and I was just nodding, yes, yes, yes.
41:33And he really sold me out because I got back the next day
41:36and I read the papers and I said, that's not what we said.
41:39He's a smart customer, I will tell you that.
41:43Has America effectively abandoned Ukraine
41:48and some would say Europe itself and NATO?
41:52Joining me now is Yevhenia Kravchuk.
41:55She's a member of parliament in Ukraine.
41:57Joining me also from Washington is Edward Luce,
42:00the U.S. National Editor for the Financial Times.
42:03Appreciate both of you joining us.
42:05Yevhenia, to you first.
42:07Is Ukraine feeling a sense of abandonment?
42:09United States effectively voting against a resolution
42:13that Ukraine moved calling for de-escalation of the conflict?
42:19Well, we feel that we get a lot of news across the Atlantic every day.
42:25But honestly, you know, today, tonight,
42:30I spent another night after the Russian drones attack
42:35and it was after the American resolution was passed
42:40in the Security Council.
42:43Did it help? No.
42:45So basically, these resolutions do not really work.
42:49But at least when we pass these resolutions,
42:52the aggression has to be named.
42:55But do you feel abandoned?
42:57Let me be direct.
42:59Do you feel under Trump that Donald Trump is moving closer
43:02and closer towards a Russian position and abandoning Ukraine?
43:06Yes or no?
43:08I feel that Ukraine, as it was three years ago,
43:13should rely on its own strengths,
43:16but also on some help from the partners.
43:21Do you feel abandoned?
43:24I will not answer that question.
43:27Okay. Edward Luce, you can answer that.
43:28Do you feel that the position of the United States
43:33increasingly under Donald Trump is a marked departure from Joe Biden?
43:37Rather than align itself to European interests or Ukrainian interests,
43:42President Trump is looking to strike a deal with Russia?
43:47Yes, and he's already begun negotiations with Russia,
43:51to which Ukraine is not invited, nor is Europe.
43:56So as the saying goes,
43:59if you're not at the table, you're on the menu.
44:02And I feel, therefore, because I'm able to,
44:07as an independent journalist,
44:09sort of state this clearly and be undiplomatic,
44:12this is a hinge moment.
44:14The world has changed.
44:17The American president is now very much aligning
44:21with the predator here, Russia,
44:24and is himself in his own hemisphere,
44:29in the Western Hemisphere,
44:31increasingly acting like a predator.
44:34So this is a profound shock, not just to Ukraine,
44:38for which it's most consequential,
44:40but also for America's traditional European allies,
44:45who have had a very rude wake-up call.
44:49And why? Let's be clear.
44:51What is it that President Trump is hoping to achieve
44:54by aligning in this manner
44:56or trying to strike a deal with Russia at this moment?
45:01What is the endgame, an end to the war
45:04with creating spheres of influence
45:07in different parts of the world?
45:09What is really going to be the endgame here?
45:11So, I mean, there are people around Trump
45:14who say, look, we've got to pivot to Asia.
45:16We have to prioritize the China competition.
45:18I'm not sure that fully explains Trump's actions.
45:22He's always had deep affinity for Putin
45:25and a lot of contempt for international rules
45:30and multilateral institutions,
45:32of which, of course, the European Union and NATO
45:35are two of the most important.
45:37And so I think there's more to Trump's actions
45:40than simply spheres of interest.
45:44The deal that he has proposed to Zelensky,
45:46Ukraine's president,
45:48that America take $500 billion of Ukrainian resources,
45:54of its revenues from oil and gas
45:57and critical minerals and port fees.
46:00This is a sum of money
46:03that's more than triple the amount
46:06that America gave to Ukraine.
46:09It didn't, at the time, under Biden,
46:11loan that to Ukraine.
46:13It gave it.
46:14Trump's now retrospectively saying,
46:16no, these were loans and he's tripled their size.
46:19That is not the act of a friend.
46:22This is the act of a predator.
46:25And so, I mean, I think Ukraine
46:28sort of understands very well what's happened,
46:30but it cannot complain too loudly.
46:33It's in a very desperate situation.
46:36Yevgenia, I know you don't want to comment
46:40on whether you feel abandoned,
46:42but are you hopeful that the war could end
46:44sooner rather than later?
46:46Given the fact that President Trump
46:48seems determined to strike
46:50some kind of a deal with the Russians,
46:52or will Ukraine continue to fight on?
46:55I will answer your question.
46:57You know, we're not children to be abandoned.
47:00We are a grown-up, a 40 million nation
47:04in the center of European continent.
47:07And so the three days to conquer Kiev
47:10is now three years.
47:12And actually,
47:14Putin is not fighting on his own.
47:16He has to drag the North Korean soldiers
47:19to Kursk region.
47:21He has to borrow shahads from Iran.
47:25But actually, what lies ahead
47:28is the biggest discussion
47:31that we're having right now
47:33is the security guarantees.
47:35And by the way, the security guarantees
47:37are also connected to this deal
47:39that a colleague, independent journalist,
47:41I used to be a journalist,
47:42so I speak more freely at that time,
47:44if you know what I mean.
47:47But at the same time,
47:49President Zelensky had not agreed
47:52to any of the agreements
47:54that are not partnership.
47:56And actually, that's why
47:58these discussions are ongoing.
48:00But at the end of the day,
48:02I see the recent progress.
48:04And even yesterday,
48:06or was it the day before yesterday,
48:08but President Trump wrote in his
48:10two social accounts saying
48:12that he wants to negotiate
48:14and not 500 billions,
48:16but like dozens of billions.
48:18So we're getting there.
48:20And I believe President Zelensky
48:22to be a good negotiator as well.
48:24Final word from you, Ed Luce.
48:27Are we seeing the endgame
48:29of the war itself?
48:31Do you see that the war could end
48:33before the summer,
48:35given the kind of determination
48:37that President Trump seems to have
48:39to push ahead with some kind
48:41of a clean on a deal?
48:43I mean, I think Putin,
48:45you know, is still only got
48:47about a fifth of Ukraine.
48:49It's going to have a hard time
48:51presenting this to the Russian people.
48:53Having lost or had wounded
48:55800,000 Russian soldiers.
48:57He's going to have a hard time
48:59presenting this as victory.
49:01So when we hear about
49:03escalating drone attacks
49:05and missile attacks on Ukraine,
49:07there is still a reluctance
49:08by Russia to conclude,
49:10even if it's a frozen conflict,
49:13to conclude a ceasefire
49:15or stop fighting at this point.
49:17So Trump's going to have to
49:19bring out a little bit more
49:21of those famed negotiating
49:23out of the deal skills
49:25if he's going to get
49:27a settlement and peace
49:29within the next three, four months.
49:31Okay. Ed Luce and Yevgeny there in Ukraine.
49:35I appreciate both of you joining me
49:36here on the show tonight.
49:38It's a fast developing situation.
49:40As I said, there will be
49:42always a Trump tracker in 2025.
49:45Okay, let's turn to tonight's
49:47India Today Fact Check,
49:49where we take up fake news
49:51and misleading content on the Internet
49:53and try and bring you the true picture.
49:55Today's fact check is on a video
49:57claiming, doing the rounds,
49:59claiming to show Ranbir Allahbadia
50:01and Samer Rehna being arrested.
50:03Here is what our fact check team
50:05This fact check on viral fake news
50:08is done by India Today's team AFA.
50:10A video making the rounds on social media
50:12shows the police arresting people
50:14seemingly from a residential area.
50:16A huge crowd can be seen present
50:18at the spot as police nab two men,
50:20while some can be heard arguing
50:22in the background.
50:24Those sharing the clip claimed
50:26that the video showed police arresting
50:28Samer Rehna and Ranbir Allahbadia
50:30from their homes following the
50:32controversial joke on the
50:34video.
50:36This fact check on viral fake news
50:38is done by India Today's team AFA.
50:40It is from 2023 and shows the police
50:42detaining two men over a parking
50:44dispute in Uttar Pradesh's Greater Noida.
50:46This fact check on viral fake news
50:48is done by India Today's team AFA.
50:50This is A.I. Sana signing off.
50:52From A.I. Sana,
50:54let's turn to our good news today's
50:56story as we end the show.
50:58We meet Avantika Panchturi today
51:00who returned from New Zealand
51:02to her village in Moga in Punjab.
51:04She is now living in India
51:06instead of migrating to foreign shores
51:08and she is getting some success.
51:10We leave you with that story tonight.
51:12Take a look.
51:14Youngsters from Punjab going abroad
51:17looking for opportunities is quite common.
51:20But 23 year old Avantika Panchturi
51:23chose to return from New Zealand
51:25where she was born and brought up.
51:27She wanted to help young women
51:29in her native village become self-reliant.
51:32Avantika runs a skill training centre
51:34in Fatehgarh, Panchtur.
51:54Avantika took inspiration from her father
51:57Jatinder Panchturi, a science teacher
51:59who came back from New Zealand
52:01to run the school established by his elders.
52:04The skill training centre
52:06also uses the school facilities.
52:35Avantika feels NRIs can play a bigger role
52:38in making Punjab more prosperous.
52:41Bureau report, India Today.
53:04We have brought out a tusker, Pradyuman.
53:07It's our image of the day.
53:09This is while the Advantage Assam conclave
53:12is going on in Guwahati
53:16trying to attract investors
53:18and change the image in many ways
53:20of the North East.
53:22I hope that's only the first
53:25of various initiatives that will be taken
53:27to bring the North East
53:29and Assam in particular
53:31closer to Delhi.
53:32It's not enough just to have an elephant ride.
53:34You may need a little bit more.
53:36Thanks for watching.
53:38Stay well, stay safe.
53:40Don't ride a jumbo just yet.
53:42Bye for now.