Visit our website:
http://www.france24.com
Like us on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English
Follow us on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/France24_en
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Let's bring in Gulliver Craig, France 24's Ukraine correspondent, joining us live from
00:04Lviv in the west of Ukraine. Gulliver, a very good evening to you. And clearly you followed
00:10every step of this story from the very beginning. In fact, before that, I know you're reporting,
00:14you've got all the buildup, everything, you're living and breathing this as it happens.
00:19For you, for the people around you, for Ukraine right now,
00:22this must be an incredibly tense situation to say the least.
00:25Absolutely. But I think if anything, I'm hearing among Ukrainian pundits,
00:32somewhat more optimism, perhaps you might call it denialism, than from European,
00:38Western European pundits. People are saying we haven't actually yet seen what the contents of
00:43Trump's plan is. People taking seriously J.D. Vance at the Munich Security Conference saying
00:49that there has to be a lasting peace and we don't want two years down the line for there
00:53to be war again in Eastern Europe. They're saying the right things, paying lip service
00:58to the right things, the Americans. And some Ukrainians are clinging to that, thinking that
01:02the Americans aren't actually going to let them down. Maybe they're playing some kind of game.
01:07But of course, it's clear from this contact with Russia, leaving Kiev out of it, not even
01:14telling Kiev about this meeting in Saudi Arabia, according to Vladimir Zelensky,
01:19that's happening tomorrow. And also, you know, echoing Russian rhetoric on a whole range of
01:25issues that is very worrying to Ukrainians. But there are some people who think that there might
01:29be a silver lining to this cloud in the sense that it's shocking to Europeans as well and will be a
01:34wake up call to European countries and get them to do what the Ukrainians have actually been saying
01:38they should be doing for years, which is invest more in their own defence and stop being so
01:42dependent on the Americans. Indeed, that silver lining, as you say, does seem somewhat a bit of
01:49a reach at this present moment in time. And of course, the thing is, if Europe does that,
01:53there's no guarantee they can fill the gap left by any American withdrawal on that perspective.
01:58Hegseth it was, wasn't it, the US Defence Secretary talking about getting rid of that
02:03bid to join NATO, giving up any return to pre-2014 borders. But of course, Vladimir
02:10Zelensky's line has always been consistent, hasn't it? He wants very clearly to get back to how it was
02:15and wants assurances for the future. Well, yes, but in recent months, Vladimir Zelensky has
02:21changed his rhetoric a bit on returning the territories that are occupied by Russia,
02:25saying that Ukraine will never recognise Russian sovereignty over those territories,
02:29but that he understands that it may take many years to win them back and that it could be done
02:32by diplomatic means. That's tantamount basically to saying that Ukraine might be prepared to accept
02:38a sort of armistice deal that might look like the Baltic states after the Second World War,
02:45which were never recognised as being part of the Soviet Union by the international community,
02:50but treated as such. I suppose that's what the Ukrainians would see as a sort of worst case
02:54scenario. On NATO, until very recently, Vladimir Zelensky was saying it's got to be NATO or nothing
03:00else. Now, of course, he's having to face the facts that the Americans are saying NATO membership
03:06for Ukraine can't be part of any peace deal. And so he's saying, well, we've got to build our own
03:11NATO then. And that's why in Munich, he was essentially calling on the European Union
03:15countries plus Britain and other European partners to invest in defence and create their own kind of
03:21united defence forces. And I know that some of the delegates at the Munich conference were saying
03:26that that was very prescient of him. I think actually the chairman of the conference was
03:30saying that Vladimir Zelensky was talking absolute sense and that's what they should do.
03:33But as you said, the amount of investment, the amount of deals that would have to be made,
03:39the amount of potential disagreement, and just where's the money going to come from for all of
03:43this is all something that makes it very hard to see the Europeans managing to do that on the scale
03:48that the Ukrainians would want them to do in the timeframe that they really need for it to be done
03:53in order to continue to keep holding the line against Russia.
03:57Galeva Craig, we will talk again. It is always fascinating getting the briefing from you
04:02wherever you are in Ukraine. Galeva tonight joining us from Lviv in the west of the country.
04:06Thank you, sir, very much indeed. We're watching, of course, all developments.