Lubna Naeem, Director, Gargash Hospital, Neha Thomas, Head of Marketing, Creative Zone and Dr. Nairouz Bader, CEO, Envision Partnership.
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00:00And that's the topic that we're going to talk about today,
00:03breaking the glass ceiling
00:04and how women are leading the change.
00:08I'm not going to spend too much time introducing the topic.
00:11We've already understood what the challenges are for women,
00:14but when we speak specifically about the glass ceiling,
00:17I'd love to hear your personal journeys
00:20and how you've addressed the challenges that you faced.
00:23So let me just quickly reintroduce our panel.
00:27We've got Dr. Nehru's brother,
00:28CEO of Envision Partnership,
00:32a certified woman owned business enterprise.
00:35And we have with us Neha Thomas,
00:37who's the head of marketing at Creative Zone
00:40and Lubna Naeem, the director of operations
00:42at Gargash Hospital.
00:44So without further ado, let's just welcome all of them.
00:48And my first question will be to each one of you,
00:51and you can just take turns to answer that question.
00:54When we talk about the glass ceiling
00:57and the systemic issues that create such a glass ceiling,
01:02it could be the gender pay gap,
01:03it could be the lack of access to mentorship.
01:07What can companies do and what can individuals do
01:11to make a change and address those systemic issues
01:14that are causing such a glass ceiling?
01:17Dr. Nehru, we'll start with you.
01:27Hello, good afternoon, everybody.
01:30I guess everyone is a bit sleepy
01:32after the break and after lunch.
01:35So I'm gonna do my branded introduction
01:40that I'm known for.
01:42So I'm Nehru's brother, CEO of Envision Partnership.
01:45I used to be a drug dealer, now I'm a headhunter.
01:48Here you go, thank you.
01:52So the drug dealing was pharmacist
01:57and then headhunter, executive,
01:59search and leadership development.
02:03Thank you very much.
02:04First of all, I would like to thank
02:05the gentlemen in the room.
02:07And I always say, I will never ever speak
02:10on any diversity matter in any room
02:13if the men do not participate.
02:17Because it's not us, it's all of us subject.
02:22I'm very happy that you're making this effort
02:27to raise the bar and raise the awareness.
02:29And I hope by the end of today also,
02:32we're gonna make some commitment with some takeaways
02:34that each one of us individually and collectively
02:37will go back and implement a teeny tiny change
02:41that's gonna impact the whole change in the big picture.
02:45And addressing the glass ceiling,
02:48I would love to tell you that
02:50after you break the glass ceiling,
02:52you get the concrete ceiling
02:53and then after that, different level of ceiling.
02:56But however, breaking the glass makes you more resilient
03:00and makes your skin a little bit harder.
03:02So the muscles gets harder and harder.
03:05So what I'm trying to say, there is,
03:07as Sheikh Mohammed says, at the race of excellence,
03:12there is no end line.
03:15So for everything, I mean, as a human being,
03:18but also more for women, the more challenges we take upon,
03:23the more achievements we get,
03:25the more challenges and higher challenges
03:28and more complex challenges we're gonna get on our table.
03:31And that's okay.
03:34This is what makes life interesting.
03:36Otherwise, it will be very boring if we have a rosy road.
03:39So going back to the question,
03:42definitely there are so many things.
03:44And again, as I said, it's not a one individual
03:49or one organization or one society
03:50or one government or one policymaker.
03:52It's a collective effort.
03:53So organizations have and should and are
03:59and should do more in terms of taking some policies,
04:04initiatives, commitments to ensure
04:07that the glass ceiling is getting thinner
04:11because I don't think it's gonna vanish.
04:13I love to have realistic expectation.
04:16And also, I think the biggest, very big chunk
04:21is on us, female.
04:24And when we're coaching female leaders,
04:25we always say, don't be passive
04:28and wait for miracles to happen.
04:30You need to get out there, get out of your comfort zone,
04:33go ask for what you think you deserve
04:35or what you aspire to have as well.
04:38So if we wanna touch on this subject,
04:41there are so many things like you mentioned, the pay gap.
04:44And that's also a two-sided coin.
04:48So organizations should have the commitment
04:50to have equal pay, but also individuals.
04:54You should stand up and go and discuss with your superior
04:58if you think that you are underpaid.
05:00And I'm not asking anyone to do a revolution.
05:04I'm asking for an evolution.
05:06And if we don't speak up, many of the decision makers,
05:10they don't think that there is a problem.
05:13So it is upon us to take initiative and try to reach out.
05:20And COVID have proven actually
05:24that some of the most leadership attributes
05:27required to take us past COVID
05:30are built in leadership attributes of female.
05:34Call it compassion, resilience, quick decision-making,
05:38problem-solving, crisis management.
05:41Anybody who has kids knows how to manage crisis.
05:44So by default, female do have quite a bit
05:48in terms of leadership attributes that are required.
05:52And I'm not saying that male don't have what we need,
05:56but I'm just saying one of my biggest mistake
05:59that I have learned when I started,
06:01when I was in my mid-20s, I wanted to look like a man.
06:04I wanted to sound like a man.
06:05I wanted almost to dress like a man.
06:08And I thought if I don't do this,
06:09people won't take me seriously.
06:12But I have learned the hard way
06:14that the more genuine you can be,
06:17the more successful you can be.
06:18So in our own way as female, whatever you wanna call it,
06:24soft-spoken, compassionate, stubborn, which is not stubborn,
06:31which means you were-
06:33Ambitious.
06:34Sorry?
06:35Ambitious.
06:35Exactly.
06:37But it's for all the variety of the diversity.
06:43And when we talk about the diversity,
06:44it's not only gender, it's not only male and female.
06:47It's age, it's ethnic, it's beliefs, it's background,
06:50it's sectors, it's developed market and developing market.
06:55So there is a big, big variety.
06:58And this is what really enrich
07:00any kind of conversation or organization.
07:03I don't wanna talk much.
07:04I think I've taken more than the time allocated.
07:07So I'll let some serious people maybe answer the question.
07:16May I have the same question to you?
07:18What can people do?
07:19What can organizations do to address systemic issues?
07:22Thank you, Huda.
07:23Thank you, Dr. Nairuz.
07:24That was such a comprehensive.
07:25I mean, she covered almost everything that we wanted to say.
07:27I mean, I have nothing to add, to be honest.
07:30But as she mentioned, just to add on to that,
07:33see, it's not just,
07:34we don't start at the corporate level, right?
07:36The first place that we need to break the ceiling
07:39is within ourselves.
07:41Because most of us, you know,
07:43I come from, you know, one of the South Asian countries.
07:46So over there, right from my childhood,
07:49see, when I was so, I was a very ambitious kid.
07:52Yeah, I was, I really wanted to make it to the top.
07:55And when I wanted to do my MBA in marketing,
07:58you know, the first thing that people came to me and said,
08:01oh, no, don't do marketing.
08:02Marketing sales is not for women.
08:04Let the men do this.
08:06I was like, okay, I started doubting myself.
08:08I mean, why would somebody say that?
08:09So that's a point when you actually kind of doubt yourself.
08:13I mean, I was so eager to do marketing.
08:16And then I have the society.
08:18I don't know why I have to bother about society,
08:20but still there's pressure.
08:21There's so much pressure out there.
08:23And then you start to think twice, thrice,
08:26oh, should I actually do marketing?
08:28Or, you know, the general trend in India,
08:30especially women go do an MBA in HR.
08:35I mean, that's how it is.
08:36So I say, no, you better go do HR, don't do marketing.
08:39I was like, okay, no, but then I did my internship.
08:41I said, okay, this is not my cup of tea.
08:44I don't care what people are gonna say.
08:45That's when I broke my first ceiling.
08:47I don't care what you say, but I need to move forward.
08:50I want to follow my passion, what I want to do,
08:53because it's ultimately that you that needs to be happy.
08:56You don't have to prove yourself to somebody else.
08:59You have to prove yourself to yourself.
09:00I mean, you should be happy.
09:01If you're not happy, you can't make, you know,
09:04the people below you happy, the people above you happy,
09:06the people around you happy.
09:08So this is something, you know,
09:10so the basic thing starts from within.
09:13Break that ceiling.
09:14Again, as Dr. Nairus mentioned,
09:17you've broke the glass ceiling.
09:18Now there's a concrete ceiling coming up there.
09:19So once you reach the corporate world,
09:23again, I'm the head of a department
09:27and it wasn't an easy ride to reach here.
09:31So I joined this company as a junior level employee.
09:35I had to prove myself twice as hard
09:38as my male counterparts, to be honest, to reach this.
09:41So there are moments when you have to be assertive,
09:46you know, just don't give up.
09:49And it's just, okay, you'll have 10 million setbacks,
09:51but it's your mission.
09:53You should have a very clear vision
09:56of where you see yourself in five years.
09:58I mean, earlier in the days, we used to do these interviews.
10:01They used to ask,
10:02where do you see yourself in five years?
10:04This question is quite important actually, now I realize.
10:08Because unless and until you don't have a clear vision,
10:10you wouldn't know which path to take.
10:12And I mean, it's a corporate world.
10:14It's not that easy.
10:15I mean, there's so much politics.
10:17People want to bring you down.
10:18You expect the unexpected.
10:21So it's not that it's a very,
10:23it's not a, you know, a road of roses.
10:26I mean, you have to learn it the hard way
10:29and then move forward.
10:30And then comes, you know, the pay gaps, everything.
10:33This is something that you need to be assertive,
10:36talk to your managers about,
10:38and if you have like a good mentorship around you,
10:41that would be the most beneficial part, I would say.
10:44Yeah.
10:48Thank you very much, Neha.
10:49Lubna, the same question to you.
10:50Neha has spoken about focusing inwards
10:53and actually breaking those barriers
10:55that you might have within yourself.
10:56But according to you, what can companies do?
10:59What can individuals do to address systemic issues?
11:04Firstly, thank you very much to Gulf News
11:06and Bing Xi for giving this honor.
11:09And doctor, I'm also a drug dealer before.
11:14From the pharmacy scene.
11:16So I feel breaking the glass ceiling,
11:19very interesting topic.
11:20Come to Gargash Hospital,
11:21exactly, you'll see the sky.
11:23There's a skylight.
11:25So actually, I was just talking to my colleague here
11:28and I was listening to people and I was saying,
11:31we have, mashallah, developed a work culture
11:34and environment where all what they're speaking about
11:37as problems and challenges we don't have.
11:40So Ms. Gadha, we need to register somewhere
11:41our hospital as a prodigy.
11:44So coming back to the question.
11:46So I feel breaking the glass ceiling,
11:49it's a continuous process where it's an effort
11:54from women supporting women,
11:57having cooperative men in the organization.
12:00At the same time, an organization in itself
12:04trying to mentor.
12:07Again, I'm gonna take example of our hospital.
12:09We never ask people how many years of experience you have.
12:14You need to give the platform to the younger ones
12:16and teach them, be the mentor.
12:18We are the leaders, we are sitting here for some reason,
12:20we need to create more leaders.
12:22And that's how we are gonna break the ceiling.
12:25So the point is that when the organization
12:29gives that work culture, that flexibility,
12:32the environment, everything just thrives.
12:35And coming back to the challenges,
12:38I feel I can take one incident that people,
12:43we always talk about how to be successful.
12:46Do your hard work, do this, take these other steps.
12:49But we never tell our younger girls
12:54that how to deal with the situations
12:56which you're gonna come during climbing that ladder.
12:59For example, I was like, I'm an outspoken person,
13:03confident person, so I was like,
13:05why do girls don't speak when they feel
13:07any kind of harassment?
13:09Unless it happened.
13:10And I was like, it was a blank.
13:12So it's not that, oh, you should have said that.
13:14You just come into a blackout where you feel,
13:18oh, what did just happen?
13:20What did just this person said to me?
13:22Of course, I'm gonna bounce back and I'm gonna show it,
13:25but without adding drama to it
13:27because I have to work in that company,
13:29I'm gonna deal it with a lot of grace.
13:31But now that I've dealt with,
13:32I need to teach that to my team members as well.
13:35Not that it's gonna happen in the same organization,
13:38but anywhere, personal, professional.
13:42We as mentors should understand,
13:45or leaders should understand
13:46that we are not in charge of people.
13:49We are taking, we should be taking care of those people,
13:53those who are taking those responsibilities up ahead.
13:57So I think we need to create more leaders.
14:04That's a great message to kind of conclude
14:06this first round of questions with.
14:09Dr. Nehruz, my question to you would be,
14:11over the years, when was it that you felt
14:15like you encountered a glass ceiling?
14:17And what did you do about it?
14:22Sorry, can you say that again?
14:24When did you feel like you experienced
14:26or you hit a glass ceiling
14:28where you felt like you weren't able to grow
14:30or there was some sort of a challenge being posed
14:34merely by the fact that you're a woman,
14:36that you are facing challenges,
14:37and how did you deal with it?
14:40So I heard you correctly.
14:42That happens every day, dear.
14:44So to tell you one example,
14:46I mean, one day I hit my head,
14:48the other day my elbow, et cetera.
14:50So I cannot really think of like one specific experience.
14:56But of course, throughout our career,
14:58there has been so many painful experiences
15:01that pushed us to grow.
15:03For example, we've been the first executive search firm
15:08that set up in the region.
15:10We have got so much certifications and award.
15:13Personally, I was lucky enough to get so many awards.
15:16And in one occasion, we were pitching for a search
15:21for a CEO for a big organization in Saudi.
15:25And we were one that were shortlisted,
15:29and the second one was one of the big five.
15:33So that was by itself a great statement
15:34that we were up to bar.
15:36And then we lost the pitch.
15:39And I went back and tried to understand,
15:42and then I get my behind the scene CIA people
15:46to let me know.
15:47And then I understood that the board felt insecure
15:52to give such an important project
15:54for a female-led organization.
15:57And of course, that was very bitter.
15:59I felt very bad about it.
16:01And I thought, you know what?
16:04I can go back home and cry, or I can bounce back.
16:09And I decided to bounce back,
16:10and I didn't take no for an answer.
16:12And I said, I would like to come
16:14and have another meeting with you.
16:16Maybe there's something else I can offer
16:18that you might be interested in.
16:20Maybe there was a question
16:21that we did not answer properly.
16:24And I thought of so many,
16:27I mean, now you're gonna think I'm part of mafia.
16:31I'm also known here as the godmother of executive search.
16:36So just to add to my interesting resume.
16:40So I thought, you know, I have to give them an offer
16:43that they cannot resist.
16:44I'm not gonna leave this meeting
16:46without getting this project, no matter what.
16:49And we gave them an unconditional guarantee.
16:51And I said, give us a chance, one month.
16:54If you're not happy, you don't have to pay a penny.
16:58But if you're happy, you're gonna pay me 30% extra
17:01than what we have proposed in the initial proposal.
17:04So by doing that, it was, you know,
17:11I tried to exhibit self-advocacy.
17:14You know, if there's no one to come
17:15and advocate for ourselves,
17:17I can come and advocate for me and for my organization.
17:21It's my responsibility to do that.
17:24Now, I come from the Arabic culture
17:27where we are taught, and it's part of our belief system,
17:31to be modest, to be humble, not to talk about ourselves.
17:35Let your work talk about you.
17:36Let others praise you rather than you talk about yourself.
17:40And it was a huge learning
17:43and getting out of my comfort zone to understand,
17:46in the business world, it's not that I'm not being,
17:49you know, a person who's exhibiting my value system,
17:53but it's a pure science.
17:55How people would know about who I am
17:58if I don't talk to them and let them know who I am?
18:00If I don't believe in myself,
18:02how on earth anybody's gonna believe in me?
18:05So, you know, the self-advocacy, in my opinion,
18:09is an extremely important point.
18:15Building a support network.
18:16I always say, have your kitchen cabinet ready.
18:19And what I call by that is,
18:22you need in your kitchen to have the spices,
18:26you need to have the oil, you need to have the cutlery.
18:31And by the same, you know, kind of categorizing it,
18:35I always think within my network,
18:37who I would go for financial advice,
18:40who I would go for strategic advice,
18:43who I would go for conflict management advice.
18:46And I have this map out.
18:48And of course, it changes.
18:49As I get to meet new people,
18:52I learn more about what they can, you know,
18:57what they're expert at,
18:58what they can add value to any conversation.
19:02So the network within an organization
19:04as well as externally, I believe it's extremely important.
19:07And again, we as female,
19:10we're not as good networker as the old boys club.
19:13You know, boys always support each other.
19:16We need to learn to do that as well.
19:20Seeking feedback.
19:22So, you know, in the example I gave you,
19:24I did not go back just fighting back.
19:28I told them, please let me know what went wrong.
19:32Help me understand what was the weakness,
19:35what did we miss?
19:36And, you know, and I told them,
19:37even if we can take this feedback as a paid service,
19:41I'm willing to do it.
19:42But it's important for us to understand
19:44what did we do wrong.
19:46So I think seeking feedback is always extremely important.
19:50No matter what it is.
19:51And of course, to take it in a constructive way.
19:55And take it, take the learning from it.
19:58And, you know, the continuous education
20:00and skill development, I think,
20:02especially nowadays with the speed that we're living,
20:06I think what I knew 20 years ago is obsolete.
20:10Like I have two young ladies,
20:15and my youngest is my biggest mentor
20:17who taught me how to parent
20:19because apparently I didn't know before I had her.
20:23And literally, I mean, she was at a stage
20:26where she was confused about her career.
20:28She graduated high school.
20:30And I'm thinking, I'm the one who gives career advice
20:33to CEOs and board.
20:35But really, genuinely, I really don't know
20:37what to tell her in terms of what path.
20:40If you go through this path, this university,
20:42you're gonna be a successful person.
20:44The whole formula has changed so much nowadays.
20:48The dynamics, if you will,
20:51the power has shifted in a great way.
20:55So the creativity and innovation
20:57is much more important than that old book,
21:02so many hundred pages that I studied
21:04when I went to university.
21:07So flexibility, adaptability, be open-minded.
21:10And it's okay to accept that we do mistakes.
21:16Thank you very much, Dr. Nehru.
21:18That was a wonderful, comprehensive answer
21:21and really interesting.
21:22And Nehal, take it from what Dr. Nehru's mentioned
21:26about self-advocacy specifically.
21:30How do you, in your role, like you said,
21:32you're in charge of an entire department,
21:33how do you advocate for women in the workplace?
21:37Well, as you mentioned, self-advocacy,
21:41it's very important.
21:42If you don't speak for yourself,
21:44nobody else is gonna do that job for you.
21:46So it's very important,
21:48especially being in the top management
21:51where I believe in our company,
21:52there are like two women up there,
21:54people below you look up to you
21:57in ways that you can't really imagine.
21:59So it's quite a stressful position to be in
22:03because you can't let yourself down
22:05because if you're broken, then people are watching you.
22:10People see that, okay, if she can't handle that stress,
22:13what am I gonna do?
22:14So it's putting you under a bit of pressure,
22:17but again, it's just getting the right sort of help,
22:20mentors around you just speak to people
22:24who have the experience and breaking your problems down.
22:28Because every time when I go and talk to my team,
22:31I take examples.
22:32So this is exactly what you have to do,
22:34how you have to do it.
22:35So unless you don't have a clear idea in your mind,
22:38you wouldn't be able to give that advice
22:42to people seeking your help.
22:44And they see yourself, I mean, okay, she's doing that.
22:46I just wanna be like an example.
22:48Okay, if she can make it there,
22:51so I mean, the person below me also has a chance to be there
22:54because when I started my career,
22:56I started as a very junior position, like a PR person.
22:59I was doing basic content and PR.
23:02So my life, I mean, it's been,
23:04I mean, when I talk about,
23:06how my personal life has evolved from,
23:09I came here on visit visa.
23:11So back in the days, bed space, one BHK, two BHK.
23:15So it just, the life just grew,
23:17but there were certain things.
23:19So I looked up to certain people in my career.
23:22So I still have a person that I really look up to.
23:25She's absolutely fierce.
23:28And I really wanna be like her.
23:30So I have my own role models that I look up to.
23:33So if you wanna be that role model,
23:35especially when you have kids,
23:37you have two young, beautiful daughters,
23:39they look up to you.
23:41So if you can't be in a situation
23:44where you're quite vulnerable,
23:46it's okay to be vulnerable again,
23:47but it's just that despite being in that situation,
23:51how do you bounce back?
23:52It's okay to have setbacks.
23:54It's okay to fail.
23:56It's no big deal.
23:57It's just a part of life.
23:58It's just that telling them,
23:59okay, see the bigger picture.
24:00Maybe this, I mean, I'm sure you have heard of the,
24:03you know, the burnt toast, right?
24:06I mean, the reason that this happened,
24:08okay, this deal didn't come to you because of a reason,
24:10maybe something better is waiting for you.
24:12So it's just about taking every setback as an opportunity
24:16and fight back and coming back even more fierce.
24:19And it's just about telling the same thing to your team,
24:22to your peers, so that, you know,
24:24they also get, you know, motivated.
24:28Living by example more than anything else
24:30and creating that image or that kind of a presence
24:33that people can actually find comfort in
24:36and get inspired.
24:37Coming to you, Lubna,
24:38when we were having a discussion before the panel,
24:41we spoke about how you started off in patient care
24:44where you didn't even have an office.
24:46Over the years, you've worked through the ranks.
24:47You've reached the top position
24:49as a director of operations.
24:52Do you see the glass ceiling diminishing
24:55to a certain extent?
24:56You've given an example of your workplace,
24:59other workplaces, women that you interact with.
25:02Do you see a change happening?
25:06I think, yes, it's diminishing.
25:09Now, as I was discussing with you,
25:12did I face challenges?
25:14Yes, of course, I also did face challenges.
25:17Where am I reached right now
25:19is I think the best career move I did.
25:22And by the way, that amazing lady is my boss there.
25:26So I'll tell you how it is.
25:27So I started my career as a trainee pharmacist.
25:31And I think doctor will understand what a trainee means
25:34and that too in India.
25:36Where you're in the 600-bedded hospital,
25:39you have to do everything.
25:41So I sat down on the floors during the night shifts,
25:44did my checking of inventory,
25:46cleaned the shelves, put the medications and everything.
25:49I did all that.
25:51I took a break in my career after I got married.
25:55Came back, came to Dubai.
25:56I have two beautiful boys, mashallah, 14 and 11.
26:01So that was my conscious decision to take that break.
26:06Nobody forced me.
26:07I took that eight and nine years of break in my career.
26:10And people were like, you're talented,
26:12you studied pharmacy, why you, you know,
26:14you're wasting your talent.
26:15No, I'm investing in my children.
26:18I'll bounce back when I have to bounce back.
26:21So first challenge came there.
26:23So when I went for my first interview,
26:25okay, you have a break of eight, nine years,
26:28why should we take you?
26:30I said, because I'm not tired of eight, nine years
26:32of working.
26:34I have that same spark, the same thing.
26:36And let me show you.
26:38So that hunger of proving was there.
26:41So this assumptions of organizations needs to stop.
26:45That you have taken a break means,
26:47okay, so have you lost,
26:49you've lost the in touch with the industry,
26:51what are you gonna do?
26:52I said, give me anything.
26:54No, because I've not done an exam of pharmacy years,
26:57I couldn't be in the pharmacy.
26:59They said, okay, be the supervisor of patient care,
27:03which means I'm in the IPD, I'm doing my rounds.
27:06Of course, I didn't have the office,
27:07I was sitting on the nursing station,
27:08but I took it.
27:11I think I have learned a lot from that institute,
27:14which means what not to do.
27:18I have learned what not to do from my previous organizations,
27:21which is very important.
27:22What to do, people will teach you
27:24and you will also be self aware about growing
27:26with experience and age.
27:28But what not to do is something you need to learn always.
27:33From there to here, mashallah,
27:35the journey was, yes, I was being identified,
27:40I've been recognized with God's grace,
27:42I'm in a better organization.
27:45I would say, yes, it's diminishing,
27:49but we have our important role to make it completely.
27:53It won't go away, as the doctor said,
27:55but we can try, we can do that.
27:58Assumptions again.
28:01You have just, can you travel to Fujairah
28:04and Ras Al Khaimah Lubna?
28:05Because you have to take care
28:08of the Northern Emirates clinics.
28:10I said, yeah, why not?
28:11Why did you give it to the other person?
28:12No, we thought you have young children,
28:14you will not be able to travel.
28:15Excuse me?
28:17How did you just assume that,
28:19that I will not be able to travel?
28:20I'm gonna travel and I learned
28:22what Northern Emirates is all about
28:23because it's very different from Dubai.
28:25I, three months I did back and forth
28:27of Fujairah and Ras Al Khaimah.
28:30So now I know Dubai, I know Ras Al Khaimah, I know Fujairah.
28:33So this thing needs to be looked into
28:37and I'm sure it's diminishing
28:38and it will diminish organization like such as ourselves.
28:42I would really, really appreciate
28:44if anybody of you would like to visit,
28:46you will see the culture, you will see happy people,
28:48you will see, mashallah, we have 80% of the workforce
28:52on the leadership role are women.
28:5467% of total workforce is women.
28:58And it's from the age 19, 20, they are studying,
29:02we give them flexibility of getting their driving license
29:05to study, to grow, to advise, even personal.
29:10I always tell to my girls, which are the younger ones,
29:13is to stay focused.
29:14Everything, have your fun, but stay focused.
29:17And we take care of them.
29:18Why I can take care of them?
29:20Because I also been taken care of.
29:23So I agree with you when you said that there's a pressure,
29:27but that's the point,
29:28you need to surround yourself with people.
29:30When you'd fall down, they need to come to get up,
29:34fix your crown, fix your dress and move on, darling.
29:37That's how you're gonna work.
29:39So I think, yeah, it's going down.
29:43Thank you very much, Dr. Nehru, Neha, Lubna.
29:46It was a wonderful, candid conversation
29:49and I hope everyone enjoyed it.
29:51Thank you very much for your time.