Ahmad Al Ahmad, Founder and CEO Future Health Biobank GCC, speaks to Tell Me Why podcast host, Maria Botros, about the importance of storing stem cells.
Stem cells are the basic building blocks of life, everything in your body is created from these cells, says Ahmad
Ahmad: Excess stem cells not used during your creation as a baby go through the umbilical cord and placenta
Storing stem cells serves as a biological insurance for both the baby and the family, says Ahmad
Ahmad explains that HLA typing tests are done to ensure that the stem cells match the patient in-need of the transplant
Last minute stem cell storage is feasible in the UAE, says Ahmad
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#UAEnews #podcast #stemcells
Stem cells are the basic building blocks of life, everything in your body is created from these cells, says Ahmad
Ahmad: Excess stem cells not used during your creation as a baby go through the umbilical cord and placenta
Storing stem cells serves as a biological insurance for both the baby and the family, says Ahmad
Ahmad explains that HLA typing tests are done to ensure that the stem cells match the patient in-need of the transplant
Last minute stem cell storage is feasible in the UAE, says Ahmad
See more videos at https://gulfnews.com/videos
Read more Gulf News stories here: https://bit.ly/2HLJ2km
Subscribe to Gulf News on YouTube and watch more of our videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/GulfNewsTV
#UAEnews #podcast #stemcells
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NewsTranscript
00:00So our first one was in 2011. It was for a child suffering from Fanconi anemia,
00:06which is a rare blood disorder. We took the stem cells from his baby sister,
00:11and there was a match six out of six from the HLA typing test that I told you about.
00:17The transplantation took place in Hussein Cancer Center in Jordan, and the baby,
00:23the child is fully healthy. He's now 22 years old. He's living a normal life.
00:28Wow, unbelievable.
00:30So it is an application. It's not something that, you know, that is fiction.
00:41All right, Ahmed El Ahmed, founder and CEO of Future Health,
00:44Biobank GCC joins me in the studio today. Ahmed, how are you?
00:49Good. How about you? Thank you for having me.
00:51Yeah, no, thank you for joining us. Today's topic is, it's unusual for me, I have to say.
00:57I've never discussed it with anyone.
00:59It's too new for everyone, I must say.
01:01Exactly. And to be honest, before we dive into the details and everything that has to do with
01:08stem cell therapy, stem cell research, and stem cell storage and donation,
01:15I want you to explain what a stem cell is to the day to day listener, you know,
01:20because I think I would want to know a bit more as well, myself.
01:23Think of it in a way is the basic building block of life.
01:26Okay.
01:27So everything in your body is created from these cells.
01:30Okay.
01:31Organs, blood, eyes, all in all, it's a basic foundation of the human body.
01:36Okay.
01:37So the excessive that's not been used in creating you as a baby
01:41goes through the umbilical cord and the placenta.
01:44And there goes the story of biobanking. That's why we store these cells, basically.
01:49Okay. And, you know, you mentioned it's in the umbilical cord and in the placenta,
01:55which means that it needs to be taken out of the embryo, essentially, or the
02:00when the fetus is still in the womb, basically, or can it be done post birth?
02:05So it's usually done right after the delivery.
02:08Okay.
02:08So you have a collection kit with you within inside the labor and delivery.
02:12Okay.
02:12And then the trained physician will collect the placenta, the tissue, the blood.
02:18Okay.
02:19We'll place it in a kit. This kit gets shipped to our facilities, processed and stored.
02:25That's how it goes in a simple manner.
02:27Fantastic. I think that was a misconception. I thought it was done, you know,
02:31when the woman was pregnant, you know, extracted during her pregnancy, which would pose a risk.
02:37Is that something that's being done or? No, it's absolutely not.
02:40It's an invasive procedure. So it's there's no harm on the mother or the baby.
02:45Okay.
02:45Basically, the placenta gets detached from the baby,
02:50put on a side and then the collection will take place.
02:52So it's pure. We get that question a lot.
02:56Yeah.
02:57Would this harm my baby? Would this? No, it's totally non-invasive.
03:02It's done in a safe manner. It would take five minutes for the collection.
03:06Right. And after the birth, so there's no risk, you know, absolutely.
03:10Perfect. Okay. And can this sample or this,
03:14the stem cells, can they be used on anyone or is it just the person that it's been collected from?
03:19Is it like blunt donation? Because I mean, it's a simple question, but yeah.
03:23Brilliant question. So basically, it's biological insurance for the baby and the family.
03:30It can be used for the baby 100% without a need for any testing or any matching testing.
03:36For the family, we would do an HLA typing test. It's a kind of a matching test
03:41to see if it's compatible with the siblings or the mother or the father.
03:45Okay.
03:46Over our 20 years of experience in this domain, we've seen that
03:50there's a high compatibility between siblings and parents.
03:54So yes, it can be used for the family. It's not only for the child.
03:58Okay. But apart from that cannot be shared. Like it can't be shared with
04:02someone outside of the family.
04:04It could.
04:05Okay.
04:06Just as long as there's an HLA typing test.
04:08Okay.
04:09So it can be used. Now to dive into it, we have different type of stem cells that we take.
04:15I was just going to ask.
04:15Yeah. So one of them is what we call hematopoietic stem cells.
04:20To make it simple, the stem cells from the blood.
04:23Okay.
04:24Which is basically treating blood disorders like
04:27fungal anemia, thalassemia, leukemia. All of these have been FDA approved.
04:32It's been in treatment for the past 36 years.
04:36Wow.
04:37So it's no longer something that's under clinical trials and so on.
04:40Um, the second type is what we call mesenchymal stem cells,
04:45which is a tissue based stem cells that we take from the core tissue or from the placenta.
04:51Okay.
04:52Now, the beauty of these is you don't need any matching tests to use them.
04:57So I can take my babies and you can use them.
05:01Okay.
05:03Now, what are they an application for? They're still in the early stages.
05:07So they're under clinical trials for diseases like cerebral palsy, MS, autism,
05:13but you are seeing progress with the patient's cases.
05:17Okay.
05:17So it's currently being treated internationally, even in U.E.
05:22So there are clinical trials that are going on in U.E. with regards to the treatment
05:27using mesenchymal stem cells.
05:29So it is upcoming. It is new, but you're seeing a huge demand on it nowadays.
05:35Okay.
05:36So those are the two types. Are there more or is it just those main two basically?
05:41These are the main two.
05:42Okay.
05:43Now you have different sources that we can extract in our lab from these cells.
05:48One of them is called amniotic membrane,
05:51which is basically being used in wound healing since 1910.
05:56Wow.
05:56So it's an old technology, but it just came through to our region.
06:02Okay.
06:03So the amniotic membrane is basically extracted from the placenta itself.
06:07It's the outer layer of the placenta, and it can be used for skin healing, wound healing,
06:12too many applications that it can be used on.
06:15Okay.
06:15The second, which is the most exciting, because yes, stem cells awareness have gone down now,
06:25but there's a new technology which is called exosome.
06:29Okay.
06:29Okay. It's exosome banking.
06:31Basically, we take part of these non-vascular cells, which are called exosome from the blood.
06:38It's being used in therapy for cosmetic purposes in women.
06:44So we're seeing a huge demand on this now.
06:48While mummies would say, okay, I'm storing my placenta.
06:52Might as well use that bit, which is exosome for skin rejuvenation, organ rejuvenation,
07:00IV drips for hair loss.
07:04So yes, it is in action.
07:05Fantastic. Wow.
07:06That's the newest science.
07:07So the science is going towards this direction now.
07:10And it's still under clinical trials?
07:12Like, is it something that's fairly new that it hasn't been approved yet?
07:16Or is it?
07:17It's fairly new, but it is an application already.
07:21Okay.
07:23US, UK, UE itself.
07:26So we're getting a lot of inquiries where patients are saying, okay,
07:30we know about stem cells.
07:31We know about placenta.
07:33What's exosome?
07:34I've heard from clinics that I can use it with a derma pen for my face.
07:39Wow.
07:39Yeah.
07:40And these core blood exosome are a bit different than what you find in the market.
07:45Because exosome has been around in the market for a few years.
07:49But that's plant exosome.
07:52Human blood exosome has a total different applications and results.
07:57Okay.
07:57So you actually do see results in your skin very fast.
08:00Okay.
08:01Okay.
08:02I want to take a step back before we dive into everything.
08:05I want to take a step back.
08:06What got you into all of this?
08:07Was there like a personal experience?
08:09Or because a lot of people start their path with, you know,
08:13certain treatments or areas of study based on like a personal experience or an inspiration.
08:20How did that happen with you?
08:22Now, to be honest, I'm away from this domain in terms of studies.
08:26Okay.
08:26So I've studied business.
08:28I've done my master's in risk management.
08:30Okay.
08:30And I came across the idea when I was doing my master's in Nottingham, University of Nottingham.
08:35Okay.
08:35And stem cells is well established in the UK.
08:40And that's where we started the first bank in the UK.
08:43Okay.
08:43And then moved across to a second facility in Switzerland.
08:47Okay.
08:47Then we've acquired the bank in the States.
08:50And we've recently opened the largest GMP facility in UAE.
08:55So I started by doing my master's and hearing stem cells.
08:59What's the application of stem cells?
09:01This is back in 2010.
09:04And then, you know, we thought, let's dive into this.
09:08It's new to the region all in all, especially in UAE.
09:11Yeah.
09:12So in UAE previously, you had a lot of companies that would ship kits
09:17across to their facilities in UK and Switzerland.
09:20A new cabinet resolution came out that the country wants everything stored within inside of Dubai.
09:29So that's when we said it's about time to launch and build
09:33a full-fledged facility similar to what we have in the UK.
09:35Right.
09:36So it was an opportunity that was untapped at the time and you felt like might as well.
09:40Exactly.
09:41Okay.
09:41Well, that's fair enough.
09:44Okay.
09:44So going into stem cell therapy and treatment,
09:48you mentioned that it is used for a lot of blood diseases.
09:52So thalassemia.
09:55Fancunia anemia.
09:56Yeah.
09:56I mean, blood cancers.
09:57Blood cancers.
09:58Exactly.
09:59Are there any diseases that it can't treat?
10:01Like, are there certain categories that it wouldn't be able to treat?
10:05Blood disorders, you can say 100%.
10:07Okay.
10:08So all kinds of blood disorders, majorly focused on cancers and thalassemia.
10:14Okay.
10:14Fancunia anemia, beta thalassemia.
10:18Tissue related.
10:20It's still, as we said, it's under clinical trials.
10:23Okay.
10:23But you do have a lot of, let's say, football players nowadays
10:29that are being treated using stem cells for ortho cases.
10:33For example, Luis Suarez was treated for a kneecap injury using stem cells.
10:39Oh.
10:40So it is an application.
10:43The sky's the limit, basically, with using these cells.
10:46Okay.
10:46But you do need certain approvals for them to become fully approved.
10:51Right.
10:52So for today, mostly all of the blood disorders,
10:56body and skin rejuvenation is also in application.
11:01Anything beyond like diabetes, autism, cerebral palsy is still under clinical trials.
11:07You have a lot of governmental foundation that are going towards a diversion of
11:13regenerative medicine users instead of operation.
11:17And that's where stem cells comes in play.
11:20Okay.
11:20So what would your approach be to someone who's
11:24still skeptical when it comes to stem cell donation or storage?
11:30What would you tell them?
11:32I mean, in a simple language, we ensure our cars, our houses and companies for a fortune.
11:41How about if it's something related to the future of our babies?
11:45That's fantastic.
11:46So it's an insurance for life, basically, which you mentioned in the beginning, actually.
11:50Yeah, I agree.
11:51And it became much more affordable than it used to be.
11:54Okay.
11:55I was just going to mention the cost because a lot of people have found that, you know,
11:59storage and paying for the storage is actually quite costly.
12:03So has that changed?
12:05Will it change as demand rises?
12:08How does it work?
12:09So it changed drastically since we started till today.
12:13Packages starts off now almost 17,000 dirhams.
12:17You're talking for 20 years.
12:19Okay.
12:20And the patient can pay on 12 months installment.
12:24So anyone basically can afford to do so.
12:27Okay.
12:27And it's a one time payment that you do not pay for the next 20 years.
12:32So, yeah, we've seen a huge increase in demand.
12:37We deal with about 700 to 800 pregnant moms in Dubai alone per month.
12:43Wow, that's fantastic to hear, actually, because I was going to say,
12:46based on research, we've seen a decline in the number of people who are actually storing
12:52stem cells.
12:53And I was going to ask you, why do you think that's the case?
12:55Is it lack of education, lack of necessity?
13:00Why would you say that's the case?
13:01Now, there's a lot of lack in terms of education.
13:03And that's where we're focusing on nowadays.
13:06So we're doing a lot of events, seminars.
13:09We're participating in antenatal classes in hospitals to raise awareness about stem cells
13:16and so on.
13:17We're doing a lot of interviews as well to enhance the patient's knowledge in terms of
13:22why should I store these stem cells?
13:24And one beautiful point that you've mentioned, a lot of mommies think that, yeah, it's going
13:30to harm the baby while collecting.
13:33Really, it's a super non-invasive procedure that has nothing to do with the baby.
13:39So in UAE, I would say no.
13:42There's an increase on demand nowadays across countries like the UK, the US.
13:49The market is consolidating nowadays.
13:52So banks are acquiring each other.
13:54Basically, big players are staying in the market.
13:58And that's why you say there is a drop in demand.
14:02In our region, it's highly uprising now.
14:06OK.
14:06OK.
14:07And in your opinion, what's the forecast for the next few years?
14:11Do you think that it will keep rising given that you continue to educate the public?
14:19And do you feel like more and more people will be approaching you?
14:24We're seeing that, actually.
14:25So we're seeing a demand increase year by year, especially, again, if you want to talk
14:31about GCC and UAE, since it's something fairly new.
14:36It's becoming a trend between mommies nowadays that, OK, you've stored your stem cells.
14:41I want to store my baby stem cells and so on.
14:44So we do see a demand and we do see future plans for us as well.
14:49We're expanding more and more in the region.
14:51OK.
14:52All right.
14:53So there is a buzz created around something called OmniSurge, I think, or something called
15:00OmniSurge, right?
15:01Am I saying it right?
15:02OK.
15:03Can you tell us what is it and why there's a buzz?
15:06Like, why is that therapy creating a buzz?
15:08OK.
15:09Basically, back to your first question.
15:11There are two types of stem cells that we sell, blood and tissue.
15:15OK.
15:15So the tissue stem cells, we have the ability to duplicate these cells and grow them into
15:21200 million, 300 million cells that you can reuse.
15:25OK.
15:25The blood is what gets collected during delivery.
15:28This is what we take and this is what we're able to store.
15:32There's a company in the U.S. called Gimda, which is the one that you're referring to,
15:37was able to duplicate the blood for therapeutic use.
15:42Oh.
15:44This is the whole fuzz about it.
15:46So nowadays, FDA gave a clearance to that company that they're able to duplicate these
15:52core blood, meaning one sample can actually create, can actually treat multiple patients
15:59with blood disorders, cancers, and so on.
16:02Oh.
16:03For that reason, one of the main reasons that we will see an increase in demand.
16:08It's no longer that I can use the core blood sample once.
16:12You can use it multiple times.
16:14And as we said, FDA has cleared that out.
16:18So it will be followed in the market sooner or later.
16:21OK.
16:22Technically, it's an allogenic use of core blood samples.
16:25This is what it is.
16:26OK.
16:27OK.
16:28And can you maybe tell us a more detailed step-by-step process of how the storage actually
16:34happens?
16:34So you did tell us that they take it, let's say, from the placenta or upon birth.
16:41But then how does it work?
16:42Do you have to transfer it to a facility?
16:44Is there a certain environment that it needs to be stored in?
16:49Take us a bit more into details into how it's stored and whether there's a risk of damage
16:55to these stem cells.
16:57OK.
16:57Basically, I'll walk you through the whole process of what happens day to day with us
17:02here in Dubai.
17:04So we get a call by patients where they're interested in stem cell storage.
17:08Right.
17:09They either come to the lab.
17:12Our lab is in Dubai, health care city.
17:14They come in.
17:14They sit with a medical advisor who is specialized in stem cells and can give the parent a free
17:22of charge session in which they give them information.
17:25What's the uses of these cells?
17:27Why should you bank and so on?
17:29If the patient agrees, they sign up a contract.
17:32And then we handle them a collection kit, which is designed by us.
17:37OK.
17:38They take this kit to the hospital.
17:42We've trained all the staff across all hospitals in UAE.
17:46So collection is not an issue.
17:48Once you're delivering the baby, the collection takes place.
17:53And then they would call up our messenger who would pick up the kit on a 24-7 basis
17:59and deliver it to the lab.
18:01Now, the complicated part starts within the lab.
18:06OK.
18:06To process these cells, you do need a clear, controlled environment.
18:11And what we call clean rooms.
18:13So the moment this comes in, it gets checked in our receiving area, which is a clean room
18:21and then gets passed to the next clean room, which they start processing the blood.
18:28Processing the blood takes about four to six hours almost.
18:32Then they start processing the core tissue and the placenta in a higher grade of a clean
18:37room in which we call ISO one.
18:39And the entire process takes about 12 hours.
18:43And recruiting for this in UAE is tough because it's too new.
18:52So we had to bring our staff from the UK till the local team was able to get the process
18:59all in all.
19:00Of course.
19:01Next thing these cells will be after they're separated, we do something called QC testing
19:08on it.
19:09Then we store them in a liquid nitrogen tank under a temperature of minus 196 degrees.
19:17Wow.
19:17That's how the process takes place.
19:19Now, you do have to monitor everything inside the lab, especially in terms of temperature.
19:26So we do have a cloud monitoring system on each piece of equipment for the lab.
19:31And you need constant feeding of liquid nitrogen to the tanks to ensure that you're able to
19:38sustain these cells for the next 25, 30 years.
19:42OK.
19:42Yeah.
19:43I was just going to ask, my next question was, is there like an expiration date for
19:46these stem cells?
19:48Can they actually expire?
19:49Can they no longer be used?
19:51So the oldest stem cell sample was stored 34 years ago, to be specific.
19:57And they've been doing testing on that sample.
20:00Viability did not drop by 1%.
20:02OK.
20:03We started with a 20-year contract and then moved to 25, then to 30 years.
20:10Latest articles say that the stem cells can live up to a human age, which is about 60
20:18to 70 years.
20:19OK.
20:19So there is no harm on keeping these cells for 60, 70, 80 years, as long as they're stored
20:26in an ideal condition.
20:27Right.
20:28This is the thing.
20:29So you cannot jeopardize how they're stored.
20:33You cannot jeopardize the connectivity of liquid nitrogen.
20:37So we have a bulk tank in the health care city that's outside the facility, constantly
20:42feeding the tanks that are inside.
20:45Right.
20:45To maintain that.
20:46OK.
20:47I actually just thought of something as you were speaking.
20:50Hypothetically speaking, if these cells were not properly stored, what are the risks that
20:56it poses?
20:57Let's say it was not stored properly but used later on.
21:01Could that pose a risk on a person's health?
21:03And do we know that?
21:06Do we have enough research on that?
21:08We do.
21:08Now, the beauty of stem cells, whichever way a transplant goes, is if your body rejects
21:15it, you'll only get fever.
21:18So it's not like the bone marrow.
21:20OK.
21:21Now, what are the risks in terms of a transplant is the patient's success rate would definitely
21:28lower.
21:29So instead of achieving 90%, 95%, it will go down to 30%, 40%.
21:34OK.
21:35That's the only risk.
21:36But either way, each hospital or transplant center that needs these cells, prior to infusing
21:43them in the patient, they ask for what we say flow cytometry report.
21:48OK.
21:48On the status and the viability of these cells.
21:52Right.
21:52So if they're non-viable or the hospital sees that they're not viable or the doctor, they
21:58will not ask for the cells.
22:01OK.
22:01So it depends on the success rate of your internal processing.
22:05OK.
22:06OK.
22:06Another question.
22:07Sorry, these just keep coming because this is such an interesting topic.
22:11But let's say I actually want to store, I'm an expecting mother and I want to store these
22:17stem cells.
22:18Can someone be, I mean, ineligible for storing stem cells?
22:23Like, is it something that is out there or anyone can store them?
22:27No, anyone can store them.
22:29We do do testing for the mother.
22:31OK.
22:32So we take a maternal blood sample.
22:34Right.
22:34Just to screen if the mother is infected with any illnesses like, let's say, hepatitis.
22:41Right.
22:41HIV, God forbid.
22:44If that's the case, then we cannot store the sample.
22:46Other than that, yes.
22:48We do that.
22:48And in Dubai, given the fact that, you know, it's a fast city, a lot of people actually
22:55decide on storing last minute.
22:57OK.
22:57So the second they're in delivery, they say, OK, we want stem cells.
23:02And we do have kits across in all hospitals where the midwife would go pick up a kit.
23:06Amazing.
23:07Yeah.
23:07So even if I'm not planning for it, I can make the decision right then and there.
23:11Funny story.
23:1280% of our business in UAE is last minute.
23:14Is based on that?
23:15Yeah.
23:16OK.
23:16As is everything else in life.
23:19OK.
23:20My last question.
23:20I know you're a very busy man.
23:22No worries.
23:23You run a business that is so important.
23:25What's your advice to people who are still worried, who still don't know enough?
23:30What would you tell them?
23:31Would you tell them, educate yourselves?
23:32Would you tell them, come visit, you know, our core blood bank?
23:36Or what would you tell them to do?
23:39If I'm interested, but I'm still a little worried, like, what's your advice for the
23:43general public?
23:43To be honest, do your research.
23:45OK.
23:46You know, we can we can Google everything nowadays.
23:50Right.
23:50We can see the benefits.
23:52Right.
23:53If you can afford it, which most people can in UAE, given the fact that it comes on an
23:59installment basis, do it.
24:03Even if you don't have a history of illness in your family, you never know what the years
24:08might bring across.
24:10So definitely ask your doctors, ask your physicians.
24:14And when deciding on a core blood bank to go for, visit the labs, let them let you know
24:22about the standards, about their sample release.
24:26Have they treated patients before using their inventory stem cells or not?
24:31Us as a company, Future Health, we've had.
24:33So we have a lot of BBC News reported about cases that we actually treated from siblings.
24:39Once you see that, you say, OK, no, it's actually being used.
24:43It's not something that I'm doing it for the sake of the trend.
24:48And that's that's my typical advice.
24:51Do you have any cases worth mentioning?
24:52Like, do you know a few that you can actually mention?
24:55Yes.
24:56So our first one was in 2011.
24:58It was for a child suffering from Fanconi anemia, which is a rare blood disorder.
25:04We took the stem cells from his baby sister.
25:07And there was a match six out of six from the HLA typing test that I told you about.
25:13Uh, the transplantation took place in Hussein Cancer Center in Jordan.
25:18And the baby, the child is fully healthy.
25:20He's now 22 years old.
25:22He's living a normal life.
25:24Wow.
25:24Unbelievable.
25:26So it is an application.
25:27It's not something that, you know, that is fiction.
25:31When parents tend to see these actual real cases that are based on BBC News report or
25:40some trusted report, they would say, OK, no, it is it is an action.
25:44Let me go for it.
25:45Yes, of course.
25:47Ahmed, thank you so much for joining us.
25:48This was wonderful.
25:49The conversation just flowed.
25:52I think we will definitely have you back one day to tell us a bit more about the recent
25:58findings, you know, new applications to stem cells and success stories, because everyone
26:04loves to hear those.
26:05100 percent.
26:05With pleasure.
26:06Thank you so much.