Are chasers okay? Is polyamory too messy? Is T4T dating no better than dating cis people? Is a dive bar a bad first date spot? Trans women between the ages of 20 and 50+ agree to disagree as they discuss all the hot topics when it comes to dating. Take a look!
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00:00When I go on Grindr, because I do go on Grindr,
00:04because I'm old, but I'm not dead.
00:06-♪♪
00:12Hi.
00:13Hi.
00:14Today, you will be hearing a series of hot takes,
00:16some from you all and some from the staff here at Them.
00:19And within those, you will be trying to guess
00:21if different age groups agree or disagree.
00:23The age groups will range from the 20s
00:25and go all the way up to 50-plus.
00:28Okay, we're going to start with the 20s.
00:30-♪♪
00:33T for T dating is no better than dating cis people.
00:36-♪♪
00:40I think the 20s group is kind of in between
00:44because they're really open to all these things.
00:46I think the 20s is getting better.
00:48You think the 20s is more open-minded
00:50than other generations?
00:51I think so.
00:52You think I'm more open-minded?
00:53Hmm.
00:55I hope so.
00:57Are you single?
00:58I am a single woman, yes.
01:00I am not.
01:01Nobody's business.
01:03Yes, I am single.
01:04At my age, you become very comfortable.
01:06How long you been single?
01:07I've been single for quite some time.
01:09Five years, 10 years.
01:10Oh, the lower two.
01:11Three years.
01:13Two years.
01:1432 or two?
01:15Two years.
01:16Oh, I thought you said 32 years.
01:18No, you're giving me too much age here, okay?
01:21I think that you all 20-year-olds
01:24have more of a balanced pool to date from
01:29as far as cis or trans.
01:31So I think you all agree.
01:34Well, I have several thoughts.
01:37So I think your generation's more ambidextrous.
01:42Ambidextrous?
01:43Ambidextrous.
01:44Okay.
01:45How do you spell that?
01:46Fuck you.
01:47All right.
01:49I'm here in this section.
01:52All right.
01:54What's dating been like for you?
01:56Yeah, dating's been pretty difficult, I'd say.
01:59Dating for me has been a mixed bag.
02:02It helped me learn more what I want in a relationship
02:05and who I'm actually attracted to
02:07and who I just kind of want to look at for a while
02:10and then never see again.
02:12I don't date.
02:14I don't have time.
02:15I don't have time.
02:17I've been in relationship with the whole damn community
02:21and I've had to make the conscious decision
02:24that no one person can handle all the responsibility
02:28I have to take care of a community.
02:30How you pinning?
02:36I'm kind of where Kyan is.
02:39I feel like there really is no difference
02:41because at the end of the day, like, you know, men are men.
02:45However, when you're dating T for T,
02:48they kind of do understand what a transition is,
02:52what our bodies might go through,
02:53what our mental might go through,
02:54that someone cisgender, you might have to, like, teach them.
03:00Yeah, I guess I'm here.
03:03I guess.
03:05I think we're kind of screwed either way it goes.
03:07Yeah.
03:08Yeah.
03:09I mean, I've had somewhat better relationships with trans men,
03:15but I've also been really hurt by trans men, you know?
03:18And I feel like there's, like...
03:20Take your time, Pasta. Take your time.
03:21Right? And I feel like there's, like,
03:23this thing that happens where people think
03:25someone's, like, assigned female at birth
03:27that they, like, can't cause you harm.
03:29And that's just not true.
03:31If I actually show you how mad I am in this moment,
03:34then you'll say, oh, there it is.
03:36You're being a man.
03:38I'm going to also put it here because I do think,
03:44no matter what, shit's messy.
03:46The cis people aren't going to get it,
03:48but trans people also...
03:50I feel like if you're not on the same, like,
03:52level transition-wise, it's kind of like...
03:55I date women, so I would be dating a trans woman.
03:57Yeah.
03:58It's giving, like, do you want to be with me
04:01or do you want to be me sometimes?
04:03I've seen that so many goddamn times.
04:06And you got to figure your shit out
04:08if you're going to date a trans woman like that.
04:10You got to be on the same level.
04:11That's so real.
04:13T for T dating is no better than dating cis people.
04:15I have never dated a trans woman.
04:17So, I have thought about it recently,
04:20but it's not something that I ever really focused on,
04:23but it's not something that I'm close to now.
04:25Attraction is attraction.
04:30I prefer men that are strictly
04:31and only attracted to trans women.
04:33Oh.
04:35Why you gagging?
04:37OK.
04:38I feel the chaser of it all gets a little exhausting.
04:44I'm going to put it as disagree.
04:48I feel as if chasers really just want the taboo of it all.
04:52Not my cup of tea, I want someone
04:53that doesn't just want me because I'm trans.
04:57Do you think chasers are OK?
04:59Yeah, I love chasers.
05:01Hi, chasers.
05:03Never. Unless you come with a dollar bill and a check, no.
05:07Chase me all you want until you catch me.
05:09I think the chasers, I don't think they're good or bad.
05:13I think chasers are people who just haven't really made peace
05:18with the expansiveness of their sexuality.
05:21Once they make peace with that,
05:23and they realize that trans people are human beings,
05:28I think then they possibly could actually
05:30have a worthwhile relationship with a trans person.
05:35I feel like if you are a man interested in Nakia,
05:38you're going to have to chase me regardless.
05:41So, since we're knee-deep in chaser valley...
05:45I think the 40 girls are really used to being, like, fetishized.
05:50Like, I'm in my 20s and I'm over being fetishized.
05:53Yeah, so I'm going to say agree.
05:55Hope I'm not wrong on that.
05:57Hope.
05:59Yeah, I'm going to say that you all don't just want someone
06:05who solely wants you because you're trans.
06:08I don't know, I feel like the older girls have always told me
06:10to, like, not be about that life.
06:13So, I'm going to say that y'all disagree.
06:16Well...
06:17I'm 30. Should I go before Kyanne?
06:20Watch you, bitch.
06:21LAUGHTER
06:24In the cock and balls of it all.
06:26Right.
06:27I think because usually tranny chasers
06:31wind up being trans women.
06:33I think y'all disagree.
06:35I think 40s is not really on the side of wanting...
06:40..that kind of communing.
06:42But disagree.
06:44These are the people who pioneered in back-page spaces.
06:48That's right.
06:50So, I think the 40-year-old girls,
06:54because of their history...
06:56Oh, shit.
06:57..and legacy, I would say it is in the middle.
07:02I do think if you identify as a trans woman
07:06and you identify as heterosexual,
07:09I do believe you want a man who dates just you.
07:12And I put you right in the middle.
07:15I think that the younger that they are,
07:17the more that they enjoy men that date them for being women.
07:25I think that, for me,
07:28I'm always leery of anybody who professes to be only one thing,
07:32because, to me, that's usually, like, a red flag,
07:35that I disagree.
07:38I do prefer men that have experience being with a trans woman,
07:43because I don't like going through the questions of...
07:45..and through the whole process of beginners.
07:48Introduction.
07:49Yeah, I don't have time to be a schoolteacher.
07:52I'd rather have a man who is knowledgeable,
07:55but I'm also not closed-minded.
07:57So, I'm in the middle.
07:58Do y'all think that, like, trans-attracted means chaser?
08:02Or is there... Do you think someone who's trans-attracted
08:05cannot be a chaser?
08:06Absolutely not. If you're attracted to trans,
08:08you don't have to be a chaser.
08:11Your hot take was,
08:12I prefer men that are strictly and only attracted to trans women.
08:15Yes, most definitely.
08:17Why is that your hot take?
08:18It arouses me to think of a male that is attracted to me
08:23as a female, exactly as I am.
08:28The best place to find a date is a mediocre dive bar.
08:33Oh, no, sister, it's just the spooky ones.
08:34Boo!
08:37I'm gonna say...
08:40disagree.
08:42I'm feeling y'all want something bougie.
08:44You want more class.
08:46Dive bar ain't got that.
08:47How do you define a date?
08:48Chardonnay and a great restaurant.
08:51Getting to know someone.
08:53That was a funny-ass question.
08:55I define a date as going out with someone
09:00with the intention to learn about the person.
09:06I don't just want to sit in some, like,
09:08Italian restaurant for hours
09:11while you tell me how you hate your marketing job.
09:13That's so boring.
09:14So I don't know if it's a generational disconnect
09:17or a cultural disconnect,
09:19but I actually do not know what a dive bar is.
09:24Doesn't sound like something y'all would like to go to.
09:28I mean, Kanye definitely would not do that, OK?
09:31Oh, wow.
09:32So that's not your tea at all.
09:35You want some fine dining.
09:38So here's the thing.
09:40I don't think the girls who are 50-plus
09:44believe in mediocre.
09:46I believe if they're still here at 50-plus,
09:49they are not looking for mediocre.
09:51They're not sniffing for a mediocre.
09:53That's just not their ministry,
09:55unless they're a chaser.
09:58Because trans women can be chasers, too.
10:02I believe that, you know,
10:04that's not what you're looking for.
10:05And I think they're more glamorous than that.
10:08So I'm going to be the contrary.
10:10And I'm going to say that I agree.
10:12In your 50s, like, you are more open-minded,
10:16but you also realize that
10:18you're not going to go to the steakhouse every night.
10:21And so I think that to find a date,
10:27that it is more of an option as a 50-year-old woman
10:31to, or 50-plus-year-old woman.
10:36I prefer, and have always preferred, elegance.
10:39I would never go to a dive bar
10:42unless I'm out of town in a dark club all alone by myself.
10:46Then I dive right in there.
10:48So...
10:49My first dive bar was when I met Demaria De La Renta,
10:53the guy that was patented off for the movie
10:56Six Degrees of Separation.
10:59Second dive bar I met, the owner,
11:01the manager of Better Days,
11:03who wound up being my boyfriend.
11:05The third dive bar was 96 West,
11:08where I met Chaka Khan and Sylvester.
11:11The fifth dive bar I went for,
11:14my uncle owned, called Andre's on 125th Street.
11:18The first black trans bar in New York,
11:22or drag queen bar in New York.
11:23So, in fact, today, right now,
11:27there are many little dive bars in New York
11:30for a girl to go to.
11:32And so I would say, hmm...
11:35I'm here.
11:37Yeah.
11:38I'm gagging at you.
11:39I know.
11:40I'm gagging at you.
11:41There's a little raunch here.
11:43I know!
11:44Which hot take was yours?
11:45The dive bar one.
11:47Why do you think most people would disagree with that?
11:50I mean, dive bars are gross, but like, that's half the fun.
11:53So I think they're first averse
11:55to just like the ickiness of it,
11:57and then they're like, wait, hold on.
11:58I could be icky, though.
12:00So it fits.
12:01Hella disagree.
12:02Why hella?
12:03In my lived experience,
12:05meeting anyone at the bar is cursed.
12:07That's not meant to go outside of the bar.
12:09Maybe the back alley,
12:10but it's not supposed to go further than that.
12:12I was actually really gagged
12:14that Kyan was still going to dive bars.
12:17The whole entire time, she was like,
12:18girl, I'm thinking about going to a dive bar right now, bitch.
12:21Like, that gagged me.
12:23I don't know what people perceive.
12:25And what do you perceive to be a dive bar?
12:30Holly Emery is mostly just messy.
12:32I'm going to say agree.
12:36Because like, for real, too much effort.
12:41Too much time, I think.
12:42And I feel like the 30s, they're going to agree with that.
12:45We want security.
12:46We want stability.
12:47That's my thought.
12:49Okay, so the word of the day class is hypocrisy.
12:53And this is why.
12:55I feel like the 30s generation is actually kind of the ones
12:58who kind of like started the catalyst
13:00for this whole Polly Emery thing.
13:02Wake that T up, why?
13:04I feel like people in their 30s are more so in a place
13:06where they can explore things such as Polly Emery,
13:10because they're in a more stable place
13:12that someone in their 20s might not necessarily
13:14be able to explore, although we do.
13:16Now, here's where the hypocrisy comes.
13:19Spell it.
13:20M-O-J-O.
13:21Oh!
13:23No, but here's where the hypocrisy come,
13:25because even though I do think people in their 30s
13:27are like the ones that you see talking about Polly Emery
13:30and they're the Polly Emerus ones,
13:32I also think that a lot of people in their 30s,
13:35nine times out of 10, are also going to like agree
13:37like that's messy and that they wouldn't necessarily do it.
13:39Although a lot of people in their 30s
13:42might be the ones who do do it.
13:45Well, I believe that it's too complicated.
13:49So we're hypocrites and we're messy.
13:5230s, I'm holding it down for us, baby.
13:54You see the solo act.
13:55So why'd you feel like you was being nailed to the cross?
13:57I was the only 30s representative here.
14:01And if you watch closely, they were coming for my gig.
14:04They weren't coming for my era or generation.
14:07They were coming for me.
14:08I was nailed to the cross.
14:10I think that the 30s would disagree.
14:15Oh, okay.
14:16About 10 years ago or so, you know,
14:18it's when all the big craze of like the Sister Wives
14:21was on TV and all of this and all that
14:23when y'all were in your 20s.
14:25So now that y'all in your 30s,
14:27now I feel like y'all settled into it
14:29and are really owning it.
14:31Come on, mother, what's the thoughts?
14:33Messiness here.
14:34So.
14:35Here we go.
14:37I'm gonna put it right there, that way.
14:38You never know.
14:39You never know.
14:41I feel like you personally.
14:44Take me out of the equation, honey.
14:46You are very much about the 90s, the early aughts.
14:52And they weren't about all this polyamory, yada yada.
14:54So I'm gonna say you're here, that it is messy.
14:57That 30 year old, 30 group think it's messy.
15:00I would say black women on average
15:03would say that polyamory is messy.
15:05Okay.
15:06Well, I disagree.
15:10I don't think she does think it's messy.
15:11Not me, 30 year old around the world.
15:15Not her, but all of the other 30 year olds.
15:18I think that they do not think it's messy.
15:20I think they enjoy it.
15:21I think they're very open-minded.
15:23When I go on Grindr, because I do go on Grindr,
15:27because I'm old, but I'm not dead.
15:30When I go on there, I see many,
15:32many younger people that enjoy that.
15:37I would say orange disagree.
15:41And the reason I say orange disagree
15:44is because I think we're being summed up
15:47in that millennial bunch of the 40 year olds, right?
15:52So I think the 40 year olds are the ones
15:54who are more zealous about how they couple.
15:57As we're the 30 year olds, we grew up on the internet.
16:00So we understand that most of our parents
16:03were in poly relationships and had no clue.
16:06So we're the true seers, my generation.
16:08So I think we're more open to it.
16:10We don't think it's messy.
16:11Polyamory is mostly just messy.
16:14Disagree.
16:15Well, it's bullshit and messy.
16:16I was going to say agree before this,
16:20and I'm kind of in the middle about it now.
16:22I disagree because everyone has a different version of it.
16:25So to put it under one umbrella, I think it's unfair.
16:28I love to see different perspectives.
16:30I love to be challenged.
16:32I'm an Aries.
16:32We love a battle.
16:34Do you think it's important to have
16:35these types of discussions?
16:36Why or why not?
16:37I think it's very vital to have these types of discussions
16:41because a lot of trans women live in isolated areas
16:45or they just have isolated lives where, you know,
16:49like they're really only being told one thing.
16:52It brings people's awareness into a better place
16:55and it broadens people's minds
16:57and it brings people into our world.
17:00You have your opinions.
17:01You pretty much know how the world thinks today.
17:04I think as a trans woman,
17:05because we have gone through so much in such a little time,
17:08it's always like a blessing for one,
17:12you to even see like trans women who made it to the age
17:16that those two like ladies have made, and even Giselle,
17:19because the life expectancy for trans women is lower.
17:21So like one, just being able to be in their presence
17:24is a blessing.
17:24Well, it has to be for a niche market
17:27because I think some of these conversations should never be
17:31in the, you know, bird's eye view of the world
17:34who's already judging.
17:35I think by being so free,
17:39we're also targeting ourselves in a time
17:43when things are about to get a little sketchy for us.
17:47I think these conversations are important
17:50and need to be documented.
17:52At the same time, we need to have niche audiences for this.
17:57Every era has their rules.
17:59What the younger 20 year old generation taught us,
18:02or taught me today,
18:04is that rules are meant to be broken and reinvented.
18:08And what the older generation taught me today
18:10is that their rules has helped them navigate
18:12and survive this far.
18:14So I think all of that together
18:16really made a very compelling conversation
18:19and it really helped me feel grounded
18:21in who I am as a woman.