MEDI1TV Afrique : Le camp de Thiaroye : le cinéma comme devoir de mémoire - 01/02/2025
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00:00It is with great pleasure that I meet you again for this new Escale Culture at the heart of Africa.
00:16In a few moments, we will talk about cinema with Le Camp de Thiarouet,
00:21one of the greatest films that comes back on the history of colonization,
00:25and finally, I will talk about the massacres of these snipers from all over Africa.
00:30We will also talk about literature, but first of all, let's welcome our guest of the day.
00:43Today, we have the immense pleasure of welcoming Selma Naguib,
00:49gallery owner and organizer of the exhibition that is currently taking place
00:55and that is dedicated to Fatma Gboli, between tradition and modernity.
00:59She is also the curator of this event. Hello Selma.
01:03Hello, thank you for having me.
01:06Thank you for being with us.
01:09A very beautiful exhibition that opened its doors a few days ago
01:14and will continue until March 30, I think.
01:19Yes, absolutely.
01:21So here is another good month to go, two months to go and discover this exhibition Fatma Gboli.
01:29It is true that perhaps the new generations do not necessarily know this autodidact artist,
01:35essential in the history of contemporary Moroccan art and painting.
01:40Why the choice of Fatma Gboli, first of all, Selma?
01:45So, the choice of Fatma Gboli because, as you said so well,
01:50she is a major figure in Moroccan painting,
01:52who truly marked her time, but who did not get the recognition she deserved.
01:57And so, we absolutely want to pay tribute to her,
02:02and especially show a very important collection that corresponds to her beginnings,
02:07so the 80s, which is an absolutely formidable painting.
02:11And so, as you said so well, she is an autodidact artist
02:16who started very late in painting, at the age of 59,
02:20who was initiated by her son and encouraged by his son in this sense.
02:24And she offers us an absolutely extraordinary painting
02:28where she truly highlights her birth country, Tenerife, with her daughter,
02:35but also all these authentic Moroccan scenes,
02:38real Morocco, with these scenes of celebration, these scenes of life,
02:44but also a tribute to our heritage, to our traditions.
02:48And it is in this sense, in fact, that this exhibition is important
02:53because it comes back to the Moroccan costumes,
02:57to the tattoos, to all these ornaments, all these jewels,
03:02all these musical instruments.
03:04And in the end, these are things that she saw, that she lived.
03:07There is a lot of imagination too, and it is a real tribute to our heritage,
03:11to our Morocco, which we love and which, in the end,
03:14I would say, in fact, this exhibition truly transcends times and generations
03:19because these are scenes that we have lived and that she has lived
03:22and that we will continue to live later.
03:25And so, we are in something completely timeless, in fact.
03:29And I would like to come back to a point with you, Salma.
03:33You spoke of a precise choice, of a period of life,
03:38of Fatna Gboli, as a woman and also as a painter.
03:43So it's from 1982 to 1990.
03:46Is it a particularly pivotal period for her?
03:51Is she marking her...
03:53Is her painting going to totally change or rather evolve?
03:56Why is this period so important?
03:58This period is very important.
04:00It is a period that corresponds to the current of post-brute art,
04:03also called singular art, which was initiated by the painter Dubuffet.
04:07And in fact, it is truly the art of self-taught people.
04:10It is really the spontaneous gesture,
04:12which is still very different from naive art.
04:14And it is true that it is an important period
04:16because, if you will, it is really the beginning of her painting.
04:19And at that moment, she explores completely incredible materials.
04:23We are on different supports.
04:25She also uses enné on skin.
04:27We are really on completely different materials,
04:31different materials.
04:33She also uses photo paper, enné on photo paper.
04:36And in fact, it is a period that is very important,
04:40which is really crucial,
04:42because from the 1990s on,
04:44her painting is going to change,
04:46even more at the end of the 1990s,
04:48where we are going to say...
04:50These are scenes of life, we are going to say, important,
04:54but we are in something,
04:56in a gesture a little more, let's say,
04:58rodé, maybe a little more commercial, I would say.
05:01This period is a very important period.
05:04We feel that she really took the time,
05:06at least necessary,
05:08to realize her works.
05:10And we told her so well,
05:12her works that she considers as her own children.
05:14And we really had a hard time detaching ourselves.
05:17And we see it in the gesture,
05:20we really see it in the gesture,
05:22which is still quite particular to this period.
05:26And this is the reason why
05:28we really wanted to show
05:30this period,
05:32which are the beginnings of the artist.
05:38And this period in particular,
05:40it is a period, I think, that must also be shown
05:42to future generations and current generations.
05:45Because many discovered the artist
05:47during the Vernissage, for the first time.
05:49They knew the work of Scheidia,
05:51but they did not know her work.
05:53Because she did not have, unfortunately,
05:55the opportunity to be known a lot internationally,
05:57even if she exhibited in the Middle East,
05:59she also exhibited in Germany.
06:01But she did not have the chance
06:03to meet this international art critic
06:05like Scheidia, who will be able to open
06:07the doors of international museums for her.
06:09But in any case, she deserves it.
06:11And that's the reason why,
06:13you will see it,
06:15it's a very special period
06:17where we have very important life scenes.
06:21Life scenes around ceramics,
06:25pottery, tapestry.
06:29She made tapestries herself,
06:31all her life,
06:33before becoming a painter
06:35and giving herself to her daughter.
06:37But yes, even at the level of colors,
06:39this abundance of colors,
06:41this technique that she uses,
06:43which is very important.
06:45In a way,
06:47she manages to finish her work,
06:49but with a finesse,
06:51a certain beauty,
06:53an incredible aesthetic,
06:55and at the same time touching.
06:57We find this authenticity
06:59of Fatma in her work.
07:01I speak of modernity
07:03because the colors
07:05are also bright,
07:07eclectic, vibrant colors.
07:09There are at the same time
07:11completely authentic life scenes.
07:13And that's why we are really
07:15between tradition and modernity.
07:17This modernity of Morocco,
07:19which is both authentic and modern,
07:21Fatma represents it so well.
07:23One of the first Muslim women
07:25to have marked,
07:27for me,
07:29Moroccan painting.
07:31For me, she still imposed herself,
07:33even if she did not have
07:35the recognition she deserved
07:37of her living,
07:39she managed to impose herself.
07:41It is important
07:43to underline this.
07:45We have the impression
07:47that she has always been a painter,
07:49even before she started painting.
07:51There has always been this in her.
07:53When we see her paintings,
07:55we say to ourselves,
07:57when did she start?
07:59There is something magical
08:01about her.
08:03Before we leave,
08:05Salma,
08:07you organized this exhibition
08:09as a young woman.
08:11What does Fatma Agborou represent for you?
08:13What inspires you
08:15as a Moroccan woman?
08:17She is a woman
08:19who inspires me a lot.
08:21Vibrancy,
08:23modernity, we talked about it too.
08:27I am very proud to be Moroccan.
08:29She reminds me of it so well.
08:33I would have liked to know her
08:35when I first discovered
08:37this exhibition in Marrakech.
08:39It was one of the biggest
08:41heart-throbs of my life.
08:43The paintings left me speechless.
08:47I wanted to make this exhibition
08:49travel to Casablanca
08:51for the public to discover it.
08:53I talked to the collector
08:55who owns the collection.
08:59For me,
09:01Fatma is this
09:03vivacity, this beauty,
09:05this modernity,
09:07this authenticity.
09:13She reminds me
09:15how proud she is
09:17to be Moroccan,
09:19to be proud of her traditions.
09:21I think we may be
09:23connected in this way.
09:25Today,
09:27we have a lot of modern women
09:29who accomplish beautiful things.
09:31I chose art,
09:33I chose to be a gallery owner
09:35and a curator in Morocco.
09:37It's not easy,
09:39but it makes me want to fight.
09:41When I see that at 58
09:43or 59,
09:45she decides to take a brush
09:47and she manages to realize
09:49what she reveals to us,
09:51I tell myself that anything is possible.
09:53She gives me momentum,
09:55she gives me strength.
09:57I see a lot of strength in Fatma.
09:59I see beauty,
10:01I see authenticity,
10:03I see modernity.
10:05Every woman in 2025
10:07must be this woman.
10:09Look at how she managed
10:11to show us these values.
10:13She's a model for us
10:15as a young woman
10:17of 37 years old.
10:19For the future generations,
10:21she will always be a model
10:23for these women.
10:25She is for me.
10:27She's a personality
10:29that inspires me a lot.
10:31I would have liked to know her,
10:33but I did a lot of research
10:35and I met several people
10:37who were close to her.
10:39That's how I visualized her.
10:41It's about how her painting
10:43reflects her being.
10:45It's a mirror
10:47of what she represents.
10:49At the meeting
10:51of Fatma Gbouri
10:53in Casablanca,
10:55between tradition and modernity.
10:57Thank you Salma for being with us.
10:59It was a pleasure.
11:01Thank you very much.
11:03Thank you, have a good day.
11:05You too, goodbye.
11:15We continue to talk about art
11:17in Africa, in culture,
11:19with the internationally renowned artist
11:21Elana Thuc.
11:23She won the Golden Lion
11:25Supreme Award for this
11:27representative of the African continent.
11:29She was presented for the first time
11:31in 1990.
11:33True to her roots, she travels the world
11:35and attracts international attention
11:37with her work on recycled materials.
11:39Her large, emblematic paintings
11:41are made from capsules
11:43of flattened bottles
11:45connected with copper wires
11:47in a complex and meticulous
11:49assembly, mixing fabrics, paint
11:51and sculptures, often monumental,
11:5316 meters high and 50 meters wide,
11:55for the Royal Academy in London
11:57in 2013.
11:59These complex metal sculptures,
12:01made from a metaphorical load
12:03and in use, attest
12:05a cultural and environmental
12:07concern.
12:09I was born in a peninsula in Ghana
12:11and the sight of boats
12:13always excites me
12:15because my hometown
12:17is such that
12:19the boat is the common
12:21means of transportation.
12:25Since the boats
12:27which we have seen
12:29a lot of work by
12:31and have been used
12:33I decided that
12:35what they have to do is
12:37to kind of get resources
12:39and literally
12:41fly to heaven.
12:43And in the process of
12:45deciding how
12:47I would need a support
12:49for them
12:51I thought about
12:53will metal
12:55put around them
12:57and come down
12:59give it more girth.
13:01In trying to do that
13:03I saw it looked like
13:05a perfect sculpture
13:07with this bronze mold.
13:11It must be said that many
13:13Adanathus sculptures are designed
13:15to be free and flexible,
13:17they can be shaped in any way
13:19and modified in appearance
13:21for each installation,
13:23working with wood, clay, metal
13:25and recently with metal caps
13:27round with the traditional
13:29adhesion of the sculpture
13:31while visually referencing
13:33the history of abstraction
13:35in African and European art,
13:37the colored fields and the dense motifs
13:39of the assembled works,
13:41from bottle caps, also retrace
13:43a wider history of economic
13:45and cultural, colonial and post-colonial
13:47in Africa, told
13:49in the history of ruby materials.
13:51Wood and ceramic sculptures
13:53also introduce ideas
13:55on the function of objects,
13:57especially their destruction, transformation
13:59and regeneration in everyday life
14:01and on the role of language
14:03in deciphering visual symbols.
14:07The process lost wax
14:09is one of the most
14:11common ways of casting
14:13in bronze.
14:15The wax is encased
14:17in a mould
14:19and when the mould is set,
14:21they are heated
14:23and the wax melts.
14:25The bronze
14:27is going to be melted
14:29and poured into the spaces
14:31that the wax has left.
14:33So in a way, the wax
14:35is represented by the boat
14:37that has given its life
14:39to give birth
14:41to a new life.
14:43And I think
14:45that is what boats do
14:47most of the time.
14:49And I thought that
14:51the title for this work
14:53could be Lost Wax,
14:55which is something about
14:57the idea of people sacrificing
14:59their lives to allow
15:01others to give birth
15:03to a new life,
15:05to help a situation
15:07get realized and so on.
15:09It must be said that
15:11Lanathu is a Ghanaian sculptor
15:13who has spent a large part
15:15of his rich career
15:17living and working in Nigeria.
15:19Lanathu is currently
15:21managing a very solid studio
15:23located in Nsukka, Ngo, Nigeria
15:25and Atema, Ghana,
15:27where some of the most beautiful
15:29and touching works of art
15:31in the world are created.
15:33Today, he is one of the most
15:35acclaimed artists in African history
15:37and we absolutely wanted to
15:39introduce you to his
15:41pictorial universe.
15:45I think it comes from
15:47my Christian background,
15:49the idea of sacrifice,
15:51just like Jesus Christ
15:53sacrificed his life and ascended
15:55to heaven.
15:59And this idea of three boats
16:01is a sort of trinity
16:03to spiritual connotations.
16:05The exodus from Europe to America
16:07was done by boat.
16:09Slavery was also done by boat.
16:11This is a forced exodus.
16:15In so many parts of the world,
16:17boats have been used
16:19in events
16:21that are very topical
16:23and major.
16:25The boats carry goods
16:27as well as ideas
16:29that are carried around as well.
16:35And right now,
16:37we are talking about
16:39cinema in Africa,
16:41in culture.
16:43Here, there is a film
16:45that embodies the history
16:47of the gunmen,
16:49notably by the subject
16:51that it addresses,
16:53it is Camps of Thiaroué,
16:55by Ousmane Sambène
16:57and Thierno Fattiso,
16:59released in 1988.
17:01This film tells the story
17:03of Thierno Fattiso,
17:05who went to war
17:07to claim the money
17:09he was entitled to.
17:11The centenary of the birth
17:13of Ousmane Sambène
17:15gives the opportunity
17:17to come back to this film
17:19under the conditions
17:21of its realization.
17:23Let's watch a clip
17:25of the trailer.
17:33The Germans had gathered
17:35all the prisoners,
17:37officers and men of the troops.
17:39The white officers on one side,
17:41the men of the troops
17:43on the other side,
17:45and all the black men
17:47on the other.
17:49Captain Thioreré,
17:51black as coal,
17:53crossed the field
17:55and joined the white officers
17:57because he was an officer.
17:59The German officer
18:01ordered him
18:03to disassociate himself
18:05from the white officers.
18:07Captain Thioreré refused.
18:09He was shot
18:11in front of the white officers
18:13and none of these officers
18:15had the courage to protest
18:17or even to murmur.
18:19It was a few snipers
18:21who, at the risk of their lives,
18:23buried Captain Thioreré
18:25anonymously and without a flag.
18:27The Camp of Thiaroué,
18:29a film made without banner,
18:31signifies the importance
18:33it gave to the subject.
18:35The film tells the massacre
18:37of December 1, 1944.
18:39It is also a collective portrait
18:41of the French army
18:43and the Dakar society of the 1940s.
18:45The film is served by a series
18:47of French actors,
18:49including Jean Daniel Simon,
18:51a member of the French Communist Party
18:53who plays Captain Raymond,
18:55an officer close to his African soldiers
18:58The film was awarded
19:00a special prize by the jury
19:02at the Venice Film Festival in 1988.
19:04The following year,
19:06the Camp of Thiaroué also won
19:08a prize at the Pan-African Film Festival
19:10of Ouagadougou, the famous FESPACO.
19:12However, the film had very little echo
19:14in the Hexagone.
19:16It suffered from distribution problems,
19:18not to mention censorship.
19:20It was only projected for the first time
19:22in 1998, ten years after its release
19:24in a cinema of art and death
19:26The Camp of Thiaroué is a painting
19:28of the body of the snipers.
19:30The characters are Nigerian, Gabonian
19:32and Sahara.
19:34These names symbolize the different
19:36spaces where the French army
19:38recruited soldiers since the middle
19:40of the 19th century.
19:42The Camp of Thiaroué and La Noire 2
19:44are probably the cinematographic hours
19:46that most frontally address the relationship
19:48with the former colonial power.
19:50If we want to understand the history
19:52and memory of the snipers,
19:54let's go back to Ousmane Sambene.
20:02Before we leave,
20:04let's talk about literature
20:06with the African Book Festival.
20:08More than 40 writers and thinkers
20:10from the continent of its diaspora
20:12are waiting for this event
20:14which this year draws
20:16special attention to the African
20:18female voices founded by
20:20Mahi Binbin, Fatima Tawain,
20:22Hainan Saadi and Yunus Ajeraei.
20:24The Flamme offers once again
20:26a rich year, mixing literature,
20:28debates, signatures and exhibitions,
20:30shows, without forgetting many projections.
20:32A program that celebrates above all
20:34the diversity of African voices.
20:36On January 30,
20:38the Flamme will open the way
20:40of the festival with the Moroccan writer
20:42Ananda Devi.
20:44As for the closing evening,
20:46it will be with Marc-Alexandre Obambe,
20:48the slammer, who will take the floor this time.
20:50This year, the festival
20:52focuses on female voices
20:54through debates, readings
20:56and exhibitions.
20:58The goal is to highlight the fundamental role
21:00of women in society.
21:02The Guadeloupian writer Jennifer Richard
21:04at a round table
21:06declared, in Africa and elsewhere,
21:08women are carriers of memory.
21:10This festival allows them to have
21:12the place they deserve.
21:14We listen to the delegate general
21:16of the festival, Yunus Ajeraei,
21:18whom we received a few weeks ago
21:20in l'Afrique en Culture.
21:22He tells us about the Flamme.
21:24We are rather in this dynamic
21:26of developing
21:28reading and writing,
21:30the promotion of reading and writing.
21:32At the same time, we are also thinking
21:34about residencies,
21:36perhaps during the year,
21:38during which we would bring together
21:40a certain number of,
21:42let's say, we would benefit
21:44a certain number of audiences,
21:46of the presence
21:48of writers from
21:50different countries
21:52of the continent.
21:54So we are in reflections
21:56that take shape as we go along.
21:58As you know,
22:00the era of war
22:02is important and necessary
22:04to be able to try
22:06to realize all these ideas.
22:08But we are working on it.
22:10We are working on it and we are quite confident.
22:12The Flamme, which will
22:14open its doors on February 2nd.
22:16We are coming to the end of l'Afrique en Culture.
22:18Thank you again for being with us
22:20and we will see you next week
22:22without fail.
22:24Until then, take care of yourselves.