#imrankhan #negotiations #ptiandgovtnegotiations #pmshehbazsharif #ptiandpmlntalks #bushrabibi #pmlngovt #ptivspmln #Sawalyehai #mariamemon
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Maria Memon
Guests:
- Faisal Chaudhry (PTI Lawyer)
- Barrister Aqeel Malik PMLN
- Hasnaat Malik (Court Reporter)
- Saqib Bashir (Court Reporter)
"We have suspended Negotiations with the Government; Negotiations have not been canceled...."
"Puri Duniya Ne Dekha Kay Kis Tarah Muzakrati Amal Say Rahe Farar Ikhtyar ki Gai..." Barrister Aqeel
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Maria Memon
Guests:
- Faisal Chaudhry (PTI Lawyer)
- Barrister Aqeel Malik PMLN
- Hasnaat Malik (Court Reporter)
- Saqib Bashir (Court Reporter)
"We have suspended Negotiations with the Government; Negotiations have not been canceled...."
"Puri Duniya Ne Dekha Kay Kis Tarah Muzakrati Amal Say Rahe Farar Ikhtyar ki Gai..." Barrister Aqeel
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, I am Mariam Aiman with the programme Sawale Ke Saath.
00:11Today's topic is Top Stories.
00:12The negotiations have ended but the committees are still in session.
00:15We will discuss this in the first part of the programme.
00:17After that, we have received another letter from Islamabad High Court.
00:20Who is being tried?
00:22We will discuss this in the second part of the programme.
00:24In the end, the story of the Al-Tawaq cases and the situation in the lower court.
00:28We will listen to Justice Mansoor Ali Shah's statement.
00:31Let's start today's programme.
00:33All the committees are in session but the negotiations have ended.
00:37The Speaker's office is not ready to give up yet.
00:40The Speaker's team released this statement today.
00:44They said that the Speaker is in favour of keeping the negotiations in session.
00:49This is their decision.
00:51And for now, the committees will not be reviewed.
00:55On the other hand, Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf has talked about reviewing the negotiations.
01:02Yesterday, the Prime Minister of Pakistan offered to form a House Committee.
01:10After that, we will proceed with the negotiations.
01:12What did the Prime Minister say?
01:14The meeting was supposed to take place on 28th.
01:17Before that, they refused and ran away.
01:19They came and sat.
01:21We are ready for the House Committee.
01:22The committee that was formed in 2018 should also complete its work.
01:26The committee that was formed in 2024 should also form a House Committee.
01:29It should bring the facts to light.
01:30The House Committee should remove the protest in 2014.
01:33And the House Committee should remove the protest on 26th November 2024.
01:36I am ready for this dialogue to proceed.
01:41The Prime Minister keeps the negotiations in session.
01:45The Speaker does not let the committees be reviewed.
01:48But the committees of Tehreek-e-Insaf and PMLN are reviewing the negotiations.
02:00The negotiations are over.
02:03And the topic is closed.
02:05At least the beginning is closed.
02:07Mr. Umar Ayub and Mr. Shabba Sharif said that they are ready for the dialogue to proceed.
02:12They are inviting you again.
02:14What is your response?
02:15Totally rejected.
02:16And Shabba Sharif said that the script was delayed by the dispatch rider.
02:25Is Tehreek-e-Insaf more interested in the other negotiations?
02:34Mr. Rana Sanaullah says that there is no hope there.
02:38Nothing will happen there.
02:39Whatever happens, will happen through us.
02:41They can solve their problems there.
02:45But listen to us.
02:47There is no solution there.
02:49It is their wish.
02:50If they want to test their luck, they can do it.
02:52The solution will be on our way.
02:57In the first part of the program, we have with us
02:59Barrister Aqeel Malik,
03:00Musheer-e-Wazir-e-Azam,
03:01Barah-e-Qanun-e-Insaf,
03:02Faisal Chaudhry,
03:03Lawyer of Tehreek-e-Insaf,
03:04who met Mr. Imran Khan in jail today.
03:07We regularly meet him regarding the cases.
03:10Let's start with today's important news.
03:13Then we will move towards the letter of the judges.
03:15The Speaker has emphasized that
03:19he wants to keep the Negotiating Committee in place.
03:22Categorically, Pakistan Muslim League Nawaz has said
03:26that negotiations are not going forward.
03:29Tehreek-e-Insaf has rejected any negotiations.
03:33But the Speaker's office is adamant
03:35to keep the Committee in place.
03:37The Committee could be re-activated
03:40or the negotiations could continue through the Committee.
03:43Faisal Chaudhry,
03:44Tehreek-e-Insaf has outrightly rejected the Committee.
03:47You have dissolved the Committee.
03:49But the Speaker has said to keep the Committee in place.
03:52If there is any contact with the Committee
03:54or if there is any desire to meet the Committee,
03:58which seems to be the case,
04:01is there any option of meeting or engagement?
04:04There is an option of meeting or engagement.
04:07There are unofficial meetings.
04:09But there is a purpose of the negotiations.
04:11There is an object of the negotiations.
04:13The two demands that we have given you
04:15which are very easy and doable for the government
04:18and there was no such problem.
04:20And the government kept dragging its feet on it.
04:24Then, in spite of the best efforts
04:27from the Speaker, Deputy Prime Minister,
04:30and Rana Sinhaullah,
04:32we could not meet the Committee.
04:35We do not want to waste any time.
04:38We have negotiated with the government.
04:40We have not negotiated.
04:42This is a common point.
04:43We have not negotiated.
04:44Have you negotiated with anyone else?
04:46Yes.
04:47Our negotiations with the government
04:49are a target of the Tatil.
04:51But our national agenda,
04:54which includes the revival of democracy,
04:56the rule of law,
04:57and the independence of tradition and media,
05:00we are putting this in front of the opposition.
05:04And our meetings are going on.
05:06And we have a grand national alliance
05:08on the platform of the Tahrik-e-Tahfiz-e-Ayn-e-Pakistan.
05:12We are engaging in this.
05:14There are individual figures
05:16who are in the Parliament and outside the Parliament.
05:18So, we are talking to the opposition
05:20who are in favor of democracy and the rule of law
05:22in this country.
05:24We are talking to them.
05:26We are talking to Asad Qaiser,
05:28and we have given the mandate
05:30to the MZK Committee
05:32to take forward
05:34the Tahrik-e-Tahfiz-e-Ayn-e-Pakistan platform.
05:38Even today, Imran Khan has suggested
05:40that we expedite
05:42and engage in talks
05:44with the opposition groups.
05:46Are the talks with Muqtadara
05:48still ongoing?
05:50The talks with Muqtadara
05:52have only been held once.
05:54The meetings after that
05:56have not been held.
05:58There is a point of contact
06:00between Ali Ameen and Gauhar.
06:02Those things cannot be revealed.
06:04Was it the government's goodwill
06:06or were they buying time?
06:08You were also buying time
06:10politically.
06:12You also wanted a space.
06:14We can only talk.
06:16We do not have any other option.
06:18I feel that the government
06:20and the MZK Committee
06:22are powerless.
06:24They do not have the requisite
06:26powers or the requisite
06:28assertion
06:30to assert.
06:32They do not have the requisite
06:34powers.
06:36The MZK Committee
06:38did not have the requisite
06:40powers.
06:42The MZK Committee was formed
06:44by the MZK Committee.
06:46The cabinet ministers
06:48and the people of the community
06:50tried to sabotage
06:52the MZK Committee.
06:54They are obnoxious.
06:56The MZK Committee
06:58was attacked in Punjab
07:00when it was held
07:02at the Madrasa of Havand Raza.
07:04This is true.
07:06When the MZK Committee
07:08is being held,
07:10they have to give incentives
07:12to each other
07:14to build confidence.
07:16But here, they are talking
07:18and arresting each other.
07:20The MZK Committee
07:22was formed by the MZK Committee.
07:24The MZK Committee
07:26was formed by the MZK Committee.
07:28The MZK Committee
07:30was formed by the MZK Committee.
07:32The MZK Committee
07:34was formed by the MZK Committee.
07:36The MZK Committee
07:38was formed by the MZK Committee.
07:40The MZK Committee
07:42was formed by the MZK Committee.
07:44The MZK Committee
07:46was formed by the MZK Committee.
07:48I would like to say
07:50that confidence building
07:52measures should be done
07:54from both sides.
07:56I will not comment on
07:58myself,
08:00this was a government committee.
08:02But I would like to say
08:04that confidence building
08:06measures should be done
08:08from both sides.
08:10For example,
08:12what was the name
08:14called to the PM.
08:16We were also asked to make a commission on 9th May.
08:23We demand that there should be a commission.
08:26But it was reiterated, not once, not twice, but several times.
08:30Mr. Imran Khan himself, through his tweets, repeatedly said that this is a false flag operation.
08:37We don't believe it. It is done by all the agencies. And so on and so forth.
08:42If there had been some silence here, it would have bode well for them.
08:49But it doesn't seem that the confidence building measures were from that side as well.
08:53Then you saw, the nation saw, the whole world saw how to escape from the joke.
09:00When the matter was decided, if we three teams sit together and decide that we will meet after 7 days.
09:08And before that meeting, I run away and say that I am not convinced to sit in any meeting or any meeting.
09:16And I will not sit because my Samaria Sahiba or my brother Faisal has made a commitment.
09:21They will announce first that what they can give me, they will give me.
09:24So the joke is not like that.
09:26But he is also saying that if he does not announce the commitment, but does not publish it in people's homes.
09:30The senior leader is in Mr. Hamid Reza's house.
09:32There is mischief, there is a spoiler, there is an attempt to sabotage.
09:36Do you think it is an equal level offence to call it a use of power?
09:45Look, apart from that, you see how many things they have done continuously.
09:52Not just to say that, to use the word Ardili or even otherwise.
09:57They have done other things as well.
09:59They have kept a threatening behaviour and demeanour.
10:03Along with that, they told the Pakistani people not to send messages to the overseas Pakistanis.
10:09And it did not have any effect.
10:11But they have tried to harm Pakistan.
10:14I still think, look, the Prime Minister gave a very open speech.
10:18And he gave an invitation again.
10:20And then again, tone and tenor, you see that it is said, rejected.
10:23We will not sit at all.
10:25I mean, you made a committee.
10:27We have been saying for 10 months that you made a committee.
10:30Then we made a committee.
10:32To sit in your speeches, we made a committee.
10:38We sat as well.
10:39We never backed down.
10:40And the way Imran Khan gave a house committee, I think we were providing a better situation than that.
10:45It was a parliamentary commission that we could have given.
10:49And we wanted to give.
10:50And if, I have been continuously saying that there is no flaw in this.
10:56There is no legal obstacle that the commission can be made.
11:01But they would have convinced.
11:02They would have come and told.
11:03They would have sat in that committee.
11:04They would have come to that meeting, which was the fourth session.
11:06But they did not come.
11:07So then who sabotaged?
11:09All the fingers have been pointing towards them.
11:11That they have sabotaged.
11:13The government has not done it.
11:14If you had sabotaged them till 31st, you would have sat in the committee.
11:18You would have sat in those speeches.
11:20They would not have been able to deliver, which is my own belief.
11:22They would not have been able to do it.
11:23They really do not have the authority.
11:24So they would have been exposed further.
11:26You said, we were getting up first.
11:28Let them be exposed.
11:30You did not let that happen.
11:31You took the blame on yourself.
11:32That you are the spoiler in all this.
11:35But who is the spoiler?
11:36Everyone in the world knows.
11:38And they think that the government was doing it.
11:40The first thing is that the parliamentary commission did not have our demand.
11:44On 2nd January, they said that we do not have any other counter-agenda.
11:48We do not have any demand.
11:49So that means that the demand to make our judicial commission.
11:53Or the demand for our asylum.
11:55There was an agreement on that.
11:57That these two things were destroyed.
11:59Now, yes or no had to happen.
12:01The government has left the parliamentary commission's responsibility for later.
12:04One, there is no purpose of the parliamentary commission.
12:07The first thing is that their people.
12:09The senate is also incomplete.
12:11The national assembly is also incomplete.
12:12All four assemblies are also incomplete.
12:14There are no reserve seats there.
12:16There is no representation of KP in the upper house in the senate.
12:19So their people have been arrested from within.
12:22With the parliamentarians.
12:23With Mia Ghosh.
12:24With Jamshed Dasty.
12:25With our accused Mr. Lakhvi.
12:28With all of them.
12:30What did the parliamentary commission do to them?
12:32If you make a parliamentary commission.
12:34The parliamentary commission does not have the power to open the jail door.
12:37It does not have the power.
12:38When you are powerless.
12:40Then the fundamental problem in the parliamentary commission is this.
12:46Why is the government doing this?
12:48Because they have a legitimacy crisis.
12:51And they want to use the judiciary again and again.
12:55To give phase 7 to that crisis.
12:58That they should sit with us.
13:00We are the government.
13:01So you did that.
13:02You sat down.
13:03You did that.
13:04You gave the TURs.
13:05So you accepted it.
13:06Look, we are sitting with this purpose.
13:09That if people sit during the martial law.
13:12We will sit.
13:13We are a political party.
13:14We do not have guns.
13:15The supreme court endorses martial law.
13:18Martial law has not been validated in the eyes of the public politically.
13:21This government can not be validated in any way.
13:24There is a fundamental difference between de facto and de jure.
13:27So this is de facto.
13:29But they are not talking to us.
13:31They are not sitting with us.
13:32If the parliamentary commission is formed.
13:34Then they will be compromised.
13:36You have destroyed the judiciary.
13:38You have negated the judiciary.
13:40You are using the judges in such a way.
13:43Like the people who invest in revenue.
13:45They are using them in such a way.
13:47Fundamentally.
13:48Look, we are told to show leniency.
13:51The state has shown leniency on the PTI.
13:55Now I am going to tell you a long story.
13:58Why do we expect leniency from them?
14:00What you did on us.
14:02You snatched our election.
14:03You gave our leader.
14:05You gave his wife.
14:07Then you misbehaved with our female workers.
14:10You broke people's homes.
14:11You did the work of people's families.
14:13You took the parliamentarians.
14:15You keep right and left for 10-12 days.
14:18Parliamentarians can't go home in fear.
14:21The issue is that after doing all this.
14:23You expect us to be lenient.
14:25And keep quiet.
14:26You are not doing walk the talk.
14:28You can't do walk the talk.
14:31They just wanted to buy time.
14:34You did that.
14:35You also brought PICA.
14:37You also appointed new judges.
14:39You got played.
14:40No, no.
14:41Look.
14:42What is your action now?
14:44Because they needed time.
14:46You brought laws.
14:47In Islamabad High Court.
14:49I think the situation is going to complete subjugation.
14:52What will happen now?
14:53You only have one chance on 8th February.
14:55We have to start on 8th February.
14:58We have to celebrate that black day.
15:00Because Imran Khan has said.
15:02This mandate is not of Imran Khan or PTA.
15:04This is the mandate of the people.
15:06Election Commission has stolen votes of the people.
15:09Qazi Faiz has accused election fraud.
15:12He was a part of London Plan for his purpose.
15:15All these issues.
15:16There is a fissure on form 47.
15:19He has defended it.
15:22We, Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf.
15:25In every way, in every place.
15:29Whether it is international forums or national forums.
15:33They have declared us winners in this election.
15:37We are the people's choice.
15:38So, you have a plan to come to Islamabad on 8th February?
15:40No.
15:41We have a plan.
15:42There is a street movement.
15:43There will be mobilization.
15:44Yes, there will be mobilization.
15:45Whatever it is.
15:46Because it will be done at the party level.
15:48Umar Ayyub, who is our Prime Minister.
15:51He has to decide now.
15:52He will reveal to you what our plan is.
15:55And we also want.
15:578th February will be the starting point.
16:00There will be many dates after that.
16:02We want to take Mukhla with us.
16:04What is the government doing?
16:05Mulana Fazlur Rehman is also.
16:07I think Tariq-e-Insaf is also discussing with him.
16:13So, are you happy?
16:14Are you satisfied?
16:15Are you in a suitable position?
16:17You don't have to engage with any opposition party other than Tariq-e-Insaf.
16:20In which there is Mr. Chakzai, Mr. Mulana Fazlur Rehman.
16:26We have a natural alliance with Mr. Mulana.
16:29And we have been in various elections.
16:31And we keep engaging with Mr. Mulana.
16:34And we have an ongoing engagement.
16:36On and off.
16:37He is needed here at the moment.
16:40Because obviously he wants to show a street show or street power.
16:44And in that he wants to use Mr. Mulana's shoulder and use him.
16:49There has never been a natural alliance with Mr. Mulana.
16:52Or there has never been an alliance with Mr. Mulana.
16:54First of all, I will say that the commission he has made in KP on 8th February.
17:02Or he is thinking of making it.
17:04First of all, he should make a commission in KP on election.
17:07And the commission should do its work there.
17:09And it should be done in a completely unknown way.
17:11And it should be known there that who, how and what has happened.
17:16And all the questions and signs on the mandate of the KP government.
17:20This should be revealed.
17:21Because Mr. Mulana has mentioned and expressed this.
17:25He did it in many gatherings.
17:27He did it in the media too.
17:28And he said that in KP there is also a government of Form 47.
17:32So he is taking us here in loyalty.
17:34But we are going Mr. Mulana.
17:35We will say what we want to say.
17:37It is the responsibility of the government of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
17:39If you have grievances on your election.
17:41So first you do it.
17:43What happens by saying?
17:44You make a commission.
17:45You open it.
17:46You identify it.
17:47And you do it as per his demands.
17:49I will say that the letter written by the KP government in Punjab.
17:52On the election too.
17:53And on 9th February.
17:54This alliance will only be formed.
17:56When there will be milk and water there.
17:59Then Mr. Mulana will have a lot of security.
18:01We have still offered this to Mr. Mulana.
18:04Offering is another thing.
18:05It has been a year.
18:06The grievances on the election in KP.
18:08You want your grievances to be addressed in Punjab.
18:12Sit with us.
18:14We will try to remove the complaints of Mr. Mulana.
18:17Okay.
18:18You were saying Mr. Aqeel.
18:19Yes.
18:20I was saying that first remove the reservations of Mr. Mulana.
18:25Because even that day Mr. Mulana said that this party has always taken 16 flights.
18:30And the reason for that is.
18:32Now you see that just like we had all the united communities.
18:35In the reflection of that committee.
18:37You saw all the communities that were with us.
18:39That their members or their heads were present there.
18:42Who was on their side?
18:43Except for a Sunni Unity Council or MWM.
18:45Who else was there?
18:46They did not take the opposition with them.
18:48For the Ayn-e-Tahafiz-e-Pakistan movement.
18:50Mr. Aqeel Zahid.
18:51And Mr. Mulana.
18:52And others.
18:53Which he used at that time.
18:55And the drama he showed or did.
18:58Mr. Aqeel Malik.
18:59If you think that Sunni Unity Council and MWM sitting together in a unity is not a big deal.
19:05In this country their politics has been diametrically opposite.
19:08So anyway.
19:09Apart from this.
19:10They have one person.
19:11They have one person in the parliament.
19:13And what is more than that?
19:15They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:18They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:20They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:22They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:24They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:26They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:28They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:30They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:32They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:34They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:36They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:38They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:40They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:42They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:44They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:46They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:48They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:50They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:52They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:54They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:56They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
19:58They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
20:00They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
20:02They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
20:04They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
20:06They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
20:08They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
20:10They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
20:12They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
20:14They should be thankful to Sunni Unity Council.
20:16You are right.
20:18You can't say this.
20:20You can't say this.
20:22You can't say this.
20:24You can't say this.
20:26You can't say this.
20:28You can't say this.
20:30You can't say this.
20:32You can't say this.
20:34You can't say this.
20:36You can't say this.
20:38You can't say this.
20:40You can't say this.
20:42You can't say this.
20:44You can't say this.
20:46You can't say this.
20:48You can't say this.
20:50You can't say this.
20:52You can't say this.
20:54You can't say this.
20:56You can't say this.
20:58You can't say this.
21:00You can't say this.
21:02You can't say this.
21:04You can't say this.
21:06You can't say this.
21:08You can't say this.
21:10You can't say this.
21:12You can't say this.
21:14You can't say this.
21:16You can't say this.
21:18You can't say this.
21:20You can't say this.
21:22You can't say this.
21:24You can't say this.
21:26You can't say this.
21:28You can't say this.
21:30You can't say this.
21:32You can't say this.
21:34You can't say this.
21:36You can't say this.
21:38You can't say this.
21:40You can't say this.
21:42You can't say this.
21:44You can't say this.
21:46You can't say this.
21:48You can't say this.
21:50You can't say this.
21:52You can't say this.
21:54You can't say this.
21:56You can't say this.
21:58You can't say this.
22:00You can't say this.
22:02You can't say this.
22:04You can't say this.
22:06You can't say this.
22:08You can't say this.
22:10You can't say this.
22:12You can't say this.
22:14You can't say this.
22:16You can't say this.
22:18You can't say this.
22:20You can't say this.
22:22You can't say this.
22:24You can't say this.
22:26You can't say this.
22:28You can't say this.
22:30You can't say this.
22:32You can't say this.
22:34You can't say this.
22:36You can't say this.
22:38You can't say this.
22:40You can't say this.
22:42You can't say this.
22:44You can't say this.
22:46You can't say this.
22:48You can't say this.
22:50You can't say this.
22:52You can't say this.
22:54You can't say this.
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34:40You can't say this.
34:42You can't say this.
34:44He is saying that
34:46in my program,
34:48he has been asked to bring
34:50judges from all over the world.
34:52He has given an introduction
34:54to my program.
34:56Today, the appointment of judges
34:58was told to us by the people.
35:00They were from the people's party,
35:02the people's party,
35:04the people's party,
35:06the people's party,
35:08the people's party,
35:10the people's party,
35:12this time the political
35:14parties we have gotten the opportunity
35:16that they are inducted their own people.
35:18And when we see.
35:20If two judges are being brought
35:22from Lahore,
35:24then our name will also get connected.
35:26Morally, we are taking questions from this.
35:28Legal matters will be weighing in.
35:30But, this letter is an
35:32academic exercise.
35:34Why do they not need the judicial side
35:36and the Chief Justice position?
35:38I don't think the need to detect
35:40The issue is with the nomination process in Lahore.
35:47Even the senior lawyers of the Noon League are not happy about this.
35:52They want to nominate someone else.
35:54This is a division in the government.
35:57But there is an agreement that someone has to be nominated from outside.
36:00This is a matter of court packing.
36:02This is a matter of which nominee should be nominated.
36:06This is what is going on right now.
36:08My name, your name, my name.
36:10This is what is going on after the 26th amendment.
36:12It has never happened that a day before the Judicial Commission meeting,
36:15there is a meeting with the Chief Justice,
36:17and then there is a discussion on it.
36:19It is the same with political parties as well.
36:21You don't take one nominee, you take this one.
36:23It is like this.
36:24The competent lawyers are not happy because their wards are not complete.
36:27Now the wards matter.
36:29Out of 13, those who have 7 wards will be nominated in the Supreme Court.
36:34And the government has 6.
36:35And when they get a judge from the Supreme Court,
36:38they can nominate anyone they want.
36:40The government says that even if we bring him here,
36:42he will not need to take a stand again.
36:44If he takes a stand because of the seniority principle,
36:47because he will become a junior,
36:49who will be transferred to the judge from outside.
36:51The position of the government is that no, he will not take a stand,
36:53and he will be in the running.
36:55The new Chief Justice of Islamabad High Court.
36:57Is this right?
36:58I think this is the difference,
37:00whose nomination has been made for 5 judges.
37:04But what is the position?
37:05We don't have clarity.
37:06We don't have clarity.
37:08And the nomination of these 5 judges is that
37:11they have nominated a judge from Lahore High Court,
37:14and when they come to Islamabad,
37:15they will nominate a judge from Islamabad separately.
37:17That is their ground.
37:19The other thing you are talking about,
37:21there are judges from Sindh,
37:23from Balochistan,
37:24from Khyber Pakhtunkhwa,
37:26from Islamabad.
37:27There are judges from everywhere.
37:28This is not the case.
37:29This is a different kind of approach,
37:31which the government is taking.
37:33And apart from this,
37:34the judges' courts are also being prepared in Islamabad.
37:39And their residence,
37:41those things have gone very far.
37:44If there is a letter on one side,
37:46then on the other side,
37:47that is the matter.
37:48But one thing that is obvious,
37:50that if a new set-up comes in Islamabad High Court,
37:54then there can be a new bench.
37:56Then the new bench can be made up of new judges.
37:59A whole scenario is being changed.
38:01And behind that,
38:02that letter of six judges,
38:04it was not addressed.
38:06They were made criminals.
38:07And now they are trying to teach them more lessons.
38:11The way they are being sidelined,
38:13they are being pinpointed.
38:15Although all those judges are very competent,
38:17very independent judges,
38:18but it seems that the system
38:20does not suit independent judges.
38:22So if we look at the Lawyers' Movement,
38:26the bars,
38:28those who are associated with the PMLN government,
38:32they have their own position.
38:34But do you see any concern in the lawyers?
38:36Or are they writing their own letters to the judges?
38:39And they are themselves.
38:40We are not seeing any support from the ground.
38:43No, support of that level,
38:45like the Waqla Movement started,
38:47we do not see that.
38:48But there is a Waqla Action Committee,
38:51in which the former members of the Supreme Court Bar Association are present.
38:54The people of the Waqla Movement are present.
38:56Even today, the Lahore Bar Association
38:58had a very successful convention.
39:00They have announced the next phase.
39:02We do not see such a situation.
39:04Because Pakistan Bar Council
39:06and the Supreme Court Bar Association,
39:08both are seen with the government.
39:10These are the main bars.
39:11If we talk about Islamabad,
39:13Islamabad High Court Bar Association,
39:14Islamabad District Bar Association,
39:16they talk about it,
39:17press releases also come,
39:18conventions also happen.
39:19But such a movement,
39:20that the government comes under pressure,
39:22or panic,
39:23or think about the judiciary,
39:25or the judges inside,
39:26who are struggling,
39:27who are resisting,
39:29they also have hope that
39:31the Waqla Community is with us from outside.
39:33We do not see such a situation yet.
39:35And this satisfaction is also seen
39:37in the tone of the government,
39:38in their body language.
39:39Thank you both very much.
39:40If we go to the break,
39:41and come back,
39:42we will have a closing note with us.
39:46In the courts,
39:47what we are seeing right now,
39:48there are speeches,
39:49postings,
39:50elevations,
39:51behind that,
39:52the reasons given are that
39:53the foundation of justice
39:54has to be made sure,
39:55and immediate,
39:56and justice has to be given
39:57in the right way.
39:59This is a statement,
40:00which the governments make,
40:01but what is the ground reality?
40:03The ground reality is that
40:04in the lower courts of Pakistan,
40:06more than 24 lakh cases are pending,
40:09are under investigation.
40:10And if someone has to give
40:11real justice,
40:13then first of all,
40:14this pendency has to be ended.
40:16But we do not see this as
40:17anyone's priority.
40:18This was discussed by
40:19Mansoor Ali Shah,
40:21some time ago,
40:22and we want to know from him,
40:23that in the lower courts of Pakistan,
40:26what is the state of justice?
40:282.4 million cases are pending
40:31in Pakistan right now.
40:32As far as the district judiciary is concerned,
40:352 million are in the district judiciary.
40:37So 85 to 90% of cases
40:39are in the district judiciary.
40:41The real fat,
40:43or the real problem,
40:44is in the district judiciary.
40:46And keep in mind that
40:47we have 4,000 cases
40:51filed daily in the district judiciary.
40:52And in the district judiciary,
40:5470,000 cases are filed daily.
40:56Please understand the size of the problem.
40:58Listen to the number of judges in Pakistan.
41:00How many are there?
41:014,000 are the sanction strength
41:03of the whole of Pakistan,
41:04from the civil court to the supreme court.
41:064,000 judges,
41:07of which 3,000 are currently working.
41:09The rest have not been appointed yet.
41:10What is the population?
41:11231 million of Pakistan.
41:13This means that
41:14we are 13 judges per million.
41:17I want to share this ratio
41:18with you globally.
41:19What is the average international benchmark?