"The United States will defend its interests, and Europe will defend its own interests – that is part of international relations," António Costa, the president of the European Council, told Euronews in an exclusive wide-ranging interview.
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00:00In a time when the threat of North American occupation of Greenland is raging, the President
00:13of the European Council guarantees that Denmark will have all the support of European institutions
00:18and that territorial integrity is unquestionable.
00:22António Costa is our guest in The European Conversation.
00:26A few days ago, the informal summit on defence, the so-called retreat, was held, in which
00:33the Secretary-General of NATO and the British Prime Minister participated.
00:38In The European Conversation, we have the President of the European Council, António Costa.
00:43Thank you for having us here.
00:45Before moving on to the main topic, the defence topic, but it is also related, in the last
00:51few days, Donald Trump again threatened a possible occupation of Greenland if Denmark
00:57does not cede its autonomous territory.
01:00How do you see this threat?
01:02Is the European Union ready to react?
01:05The European Union is a consistent, reliable and predictable international actor.
01:13Everyone knows our position.
01:15We have an international order based on rules, and the fundamental rules are those that
01:20run from the United Nations Charter, where the principle of sovereignty, territorial integrity,
01:25the stability of borders are fundamental principles.
01:29It is these fundamental principles that lead us to support Ukraine.
01:32It is these fundamental principles that lead us to condemn the violations of the border
01:36in the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
01:38And for the most part, as you can imagine, we cannot fail to defend these principles
01:42when the territorial integrity of a member state of the European Union is at stake.
01:48Therefore, we naturally support Denmark, and we hope that, as is the case between allies,
01:58as is the case between partners, as is the case between friends, potential claims and interests
02:05will be resolved in a way that provides for dialogue.
02:10It is not a new question.
02:11It was already raised a few years ago, and it was well resolved and stabilized, but obviously
02:17the territorial integrity of Denmark, the sovereignty of Denmark, the stability of its borders,
02:24as you can imagine, is for us an essential issue.
02:27But in the case of an invasion, as it has already been threatened, and the use of military
02:33power has already been used as an argument for this question by Donald Trump.
02:39I will not...
02:40It is not the time to speculate.
02:44As you know, Greenland is part of the territory of the Kingdom of Denmark.
02:50Denmark is a sovereign state.
02:54Denmark defines what its interests are, and the European Union will support Denmark.
03:01We will not be speculating.
03:03We will naturally wish that this conflict, like any other, first, in a question, does not
03:09result in a conflict, and having a conflict, it is resolved in a friendly way, as it happens
03:14between allies.
03:15And have you already had any contact with Donald Trump on this issue, or after your
03:20takeover by Donald Trump?
03:22No, I haven't had the opportunity yet.
03:24I had the opportunity to meet with the Secretary of Commerce at the 80th anniversary of the
03:29liberation of the Auschwitz camp.
03:32This week, the High Representative had a phone call with the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio,
03:39who was described as being friendly and constructive.
03:43And what we wish, obviously, is to maintain a good relationship with the United States,
03:49as we have always had.
03:51We are allies, we are partners, we are friends.
03:54This has been the case for 200 years, and regardless of who leads the United States, or who leads
03:59the European Union, it is a stable relationship of mutual interest, this transatlantic alliance.
04:06And I hope that it develops.
04:08It is not the first time that the European Union has been in a relationship with the United
04:12States under the presidency of Donald Trump.
04:14For now, it is like this, and we will try to understand in a normal way.
04:18It is understandable that the United States has interests that it wants to defend, as it
04:23is obviously understandable that the European Union also has interests that it also has
04:27interests that it wants to defend.
04:29But the European Union never said that the United States treated the European Union badly,
04:34as Donald Trump said in his speech in Davos.
04:38He said with these words that the European Union treats the United States badly.
04:43How do you see this kind of statement from a leader as important as the President of the United States?
04:51I think that each one has the forms of expression that are part of the freedom of expression of
04:55each one.
04:56I will not comment on words.
04:58And the dialogue between the European Union and the United States is not done through public
05:03statements in social communication.
05:05We have an organized, structured dialogue, and obviously as allies and as friends.
05:11If the United States feels that there is a problem with the European Union, we obviously
05:17sit down to dialogue and to seek to see how we can together solve this problem.
05:25Naturally, just as the United States wants to defend its interests, the European Union
05:29wants to defend the interests of its companies, of its citizens, of our Union.
05:35And this is a dialogue that should be developed in a normal, peaceful way, without anxieties.
05:40For our part, we have the will to maintain a good relationship with the United States.
05:48And therefore, if and when the United States understands that there is a question of putting
05:52the European Union, we are there to dialogue with the United States.
05:54Will it be a negotiation, not a retaliation?
05:57The choice is not ours.
06:00Obviously, even among friends, as is known, there are moments of difficulty and confrontation
06:06of divergent interests.
06:08During the Biden administration, the Biden administration approved the Inflation Reduction
06:16Act, which had a set of measures that negatively affected our economy.
06:20And naturally, the European Commission reacted and sought to find an adequate and professional
06:26response to defend the interests of the European Union.
06:29That is the function that we have and will not cease to have.
06:34But obviously, when we are talking to partners, when we are talking to allies, we do what
06:40is normal to do.
06:42If there is a problem, the problem is solved.
06:44We see how it can be solved.
06:46If it is possible to solve it, excellent.
06:48If it is not possible to solve it, we have to see how it can be overcome.
06:51In terms of tariffs, which is one of the weapons pointed out by Donald Trump to defend the
06:57interests of the United States, will the European Union also be prepared to react with tariffs?
07:02So far, the United States has already announced the imposition of tariffs on several markets.
07:10So far, it has not done so in relation to the European Union.
07:13Therefore, we will not be putting a problem that has not yet been put.
07:16If and when the problem is put, we will naturally look at the problem, we will try to solve it
07:21or we will react.
07:22That's part of it.
07:23Now, let's see, what needs to be understood is the following.
07:27Since the independence of the United States, the transatlantic relationship is one of the
07:31most important and stabilizing relations for peace and prosperity in the whole world.
07:36And also of mutual interest for both parties.
07:39Over the past few years, obviously, there have been moments of tension, of difficulties,
07:43of divergence, even of conflict.
07:45Well, what this area has taught us is that we have always been able to overcome those
07:49moments with mutual benefit for both parties.
07:54Therefore, if now the United States has a question to put, and apparently has a question
07:59to put, regarding the trade deficit that they claim to exist, we are obviously totally
08:05available to dialogue what is in the mutual interest.
08:08The United States defends the interests of the United States, Europe defends its interests.
08:12This is part, as is obvious, of international relations.
08:16Now, I don't think it's worth anticipating problems or dramatizing problems.
08:20We must deal with them as such.
08:22Problems that must be solved.
08:24We then move on to the main theme of defense and the withdrawal that will be made next
08:29week with the heads of state and government and with the Secretary-General of NATO and
08:33the British Prime Minister.
08:35Even within the European Union, there are divergent voices on how the European Union
08:40should proceed in terms of defense.
08:43The former President of the European Council and the Polish Prime Minister said in the
08:47European Council last week that Europe, if it wants to survive, has to arm itself.
08:51Is it possible?
08:52Are we going to succeed?
08:53What is being done in this regard?
08:55The first decision, as I recall, that the European Union decided, adopted to strengthen
09:02its defense system was in December 2021.
09:06The following month, during the French Presidency, with the declaration of Versailles, we developed
09:12a strategy in which we clearly stated that the European Union should develop its strategic
09:17autonomy in the field of defense.
09:19Many at the time understood that it was a way of moving the United States away.
09:24Today I believe that it is clear that it is a way of complementing the alliance we have
09:28with the United States and ensuring that our alliance is more balanced.
09:33From 2021 to today, the investment in defense in the set of member states increased by 30%
09:40in the set of member states.
09:42From 2014 to today, all the countries of the European Union, or rather, the 23 countries
09:48of the European Union that are part of NATO, increased their investment in defense and,
09:53in the set, they have already reached the famous 2%.
09:57And we are all aware, particularly after the dramatic change in the geopolitical situation
10:02with the war unleashed by Russia against Ukraine, that it is essential to strengthen
10:09our defense capacity.
10:10And so, I believe that there is a very general consensus, because it is necessary to continue
10:17this trajectory and I would probably anticipate that in the next week of NATO there will be
10:23an agreement to establish a new goal above 2%.
10:27So, there are three fundamental issues that I invite the leaders to discuss next Monday,
10:33which are, first, to stabilize the priorities of the capacities that we must develop.
10:41Second, how to finance the development of these capacities, both in the short term and
10:47in the long term.
10:48Third, how to develop our partnerships in the framework of NATO, of the transatlantic
10:54alliance with the United States and of the alliance with the United Kingdom.
10:59And, of course, in terms of financing, the so-called Eurobonds can be a solution.
11:04These are always controversial.
11:06This is a brainstorming day, absolutely informal, so that precisely we are all free to put
11:14on the table all the ideas that may exist.
11:18We must be able to discuss in an open way, without the pressure of reaching the end and
11:24having to have some conclusions, of having to make a decision.
11:28So, this meeting is a very important step in a process that will feed, with political
11:37guidelines, the work that the European Commission is developing, together with the High Representative,
11:43to present a White Paper on Defense in March, and then we will return to a formal European
11:50Council in June, to then be able to reflect on the White Paper.
11:57We will then be able to continue our reflection on defense and make decisions on the issues
12:03that we have to decide.
12:05So, this is, let's say, a moment in which all ideas are very welcome and that must
12:12be discussed in an open and frank way between the 27 Member States.
12:16In the case of NATO, the Secretary General of NATO, Marco Ruti, has already said that
12:20citizens will probably have to make some sacrifices so that each of the Member States
12:26can meet the established goals.
12:30We are all aware that defense is a fundamental public good, and therefore, obviously, it
12:36requires funding to ensure this fundamental public good.
12:40I don't believe that the choice has to be made in the terms in which the Secretary General
12:44of NATO has stated, but obviously, all Member States have in their budgetary policy
12:50several objectives.
12:52Defense, certainly, but also ensuring quality education for all children and young people,
12:58ensuring an important degree of quality of health services for all citizens, promoting
13:05the development of their economy, ensuring sustainable development, continuing the transition,
13:12the energy and climate transition, ensuring the digital transition.
13:16Therefore, the budgetary choices are always multiple.
13:19What we can discuss, and this is the greatest value that the European Union can give to
13:23the Member States, is, first of all, to see how we can have more efficiency in our
13:28expenses.
13:29Secondly, what expenses, eventually, should be shared at all times, because they should
13:34not be the effort of each one.
13:36I'll give you an example.
13:38The defense of the Polish border is not only the defense of the Polish border.
13:43It is the defense of our entire border, of our eastern border.
13:46Fortunately, in the states facing the Atlantic, the threat is less noticeable, but they do not
13:51stop being defended by those who have to defend our common eastern border.
13:58That is why supporting Ukraine to ensure that international law prevails and that the violation
14:05of international law does not prevail is absolutely essential.
14:08Ensuring the good defense of our eastern border, of our northern border, of our Baltic border,
14:15as well as the border with the Mediterranean, are obviously very important, because, naturally,
14:21the threats there are more present than the threat on the Atlantic coast.
14:25We have to talk about Ukraine and the support that is being given to Ukraine.
14:30Do you have any doubts about the continuity of the support that will be given by the United
14:35States?
14:36Can the European Union assume an even more relevant role in this support to Ukraine?
14:41The European Council met urgently on February 24, 2022.
14:46On the very day of the invasion, the European Council met here in Brussels.
14:51And since that day, when we communicated by videoconference with President Zelensky, the
14:57support of the European Union has been constant, sustainable and without room for doubt.
15:05It was like this at the beginning of the war, it was like this during the war, it will be like this
15:09in the negotiations of peace, when they exist, it will be like this in the reconstruction
15:13of Ukraine, it will be like this with the integration of Ukraine within the European Union.
15:18And, therefore, this support of the European Union is unquestionable, indisputable, as long
15:23as it is necessary and whatever happens.
15:26And how is the process taking place, the whole process for the division of Ukraine?
15:31The integration that the European Commission does of the process of internal reforms in Ukraine
15:36is absolutely impressive.
15:37How a country, at war, manages to develop and has fulfilled the process of internal
15:43reform that the process of division exists.
15:46My hope, as I said to President Zelensky, is that during this presence in Poland that
15:50at least two clusters of negotiations are open.
15:53Ukraine has the ambition of being in three.
15:55If they are in three, great.
15:57But what we have to continue is focused on that work and avoid precisely what I warned
16:05at the beginning of this process.
16:07You can not create expectations that are frustrated, whether with Ukraine, whether with Moldova,
16:11whether with the countries of the Western Balkans.
16:14The expectations and the decision that were taken have to be consistent, because if not,
16:18the ricochet effect on the European Union will be terrible.
16:21And I think the way Ukraine is working is truly inspiring for all the candidate countries.
16:28It is inspiring for all member states, because it is a sense of commitment that is difficult
16:34to imagine that a country suffering a brutal war, as Ukraine is suffering, has at the
16:40same time the capacity internally to methodically pursue the effort of internal reform, which
16:46has been very well and positively evaluated.
16:48And I think it is an inspiring source for all the candidate countries, whether Moldova,
16:54or the Western Balkans.
16:56Anyway, I'm not talking about Georgia, because they have already decided to expand.
16:59We naturally respect this sovereign decision of Georgia.
17:03We feed, but we respect.
17:05Now, all those who are interested are welcome.
17:07And we are working in this direction to make this process a reality.
17:10I'll ask you one last question.
17:12In the last few months, we have seen some member states approaching Russia.
17:16And in 2021, at the end of the Portuguese presidency, a moment of some tension with
17:22Viktor Orbán, a moment more or less that we can compare to the current one, in which
17:27there is also an approach from Slovakia, from FIDSO, to Russia.
17:32At that time, at the end of the CIMEIRA, he told us in an interview that only in the
17:38European Union, who wants to be.
17:40Today, as President of the European Council, can he maintain the same type of speech?
17:45The European Union is a union of diversities.
17:49We are 27 different countries, which have different histories, different cultures,
17:56look at the world from very different geographical positions.
17:59They are led by the most diverse families, political families.
18:03We are 27 democracies.
18:05Therefore, the citizen chooses in each moment and in each country the government they want
18:09to govern.
18:11And therefore, the real news is not when there is a divergence.
18:14The real news is when there is an agreement.
18:17Because if we look at the European Union, the principle is that everyone should think
18:22differently.
18:24What is absolutely extraordinary is that throughout these years and with successive
18:28extensions, the European Union has always managed to reach an agreement.
18:31Sometimes it is difficult.
18:33But last week, many people speculated that there may be an insurmountable divergence
18:40about the renewal of sanctions against Russia.
18:44Well, as you saw, once again, the South has overcome these difficulties and, unanimously,
18:49the sanctions against Russia have been renewed.
18:53Not all countries have the same reading about this war.
18:57Yes, it is true.
18:59It is true that we have always managed, unanimously, to take all the decisions that were
19:03decisive to support, in a safe and predictable way, Ukraine in its efforts.
19:11And therefore, this is how we have to proceed.
19:15And the construction of a foreign policy in common security is a plus value for everyone.
19:20Obviously, it does not result in a magical effect.
19:23Now, participating in the European Union is an act of freedom.
19:27The United Kingdom, when it decided to leave, we were all very sorry, but it exercised
19:31its freedom to leave.
19:33As it is in the European Union, it is an act of freedom.
19:36And what I see every day, and now I see more intensely in these new functions, is that
19:41despite the different points of view and the diversity of opinions, there is an enormous
19:46desire, like one of the 27, to be together.
19:49That is why we are here.
19:51And that is why several others want to join us.
19:54Thank you very much.