Un trapito amenazó con rayar un auto y lo detuvieron. Pasó la noche en la cárcel.
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00:00It's a war, a war to the little rags, to the streets, in the public streets.
00:07And what you're seeing is a detainee, a detainee.
00:10They're taking him to the police station and I think he ended up in Batán, in Batán's prison.
00:15Because here the other situation happened, which is not the one of the little rag,
00:18which is about winning the mango, and it generates a friendly question,
00:22it asks you voluntarily, I'll take care of you.
00:24When you leave the restaurant, the play, I'll be here and if you want, you give me something.
00:29No, here it's extorsion, threat, and in that threat they arrested him.
00:36Adrián Mauchi is working there live. Adrián, how are you?
00:41How are you, Bobby? Yes, exactly.
00:43We are here in the coastal area where, of course, it is very difficult to find a place to park.
00:48We don't see, at first glance, the presence of car care.
00:51Usually here in the area there are some guys who are very kind,
00:55we already know them, who are around here.
00:58What you were just commenting, Bobby, happened this morning,
01:01when a man, about 40 years old, extorted a family of tourists to ask for money
01:09and threatening that they were going to scratch all his car.
01:12Finally, he was arrested, he finished the first police station, and then transferred to Batán.
01:19This is part of a war, as you said, or a confrontation that the municipality is having
01:25with car carers, with people who pernoctan, perhaps, in the coastal area,
01:32but above all those who generate disturbances.
01:35It is not against people in a street situation,
01:39but against people who generate discomfort or who are drunk,
01:44who are under the effects of some drug, and the municipality is against them.
01:50There are many videos in the Ministry of Security that go viral.
01:54The mayor of Montenegro published a video a week ago that we had already shown.
01:59That video has millions and millions of views.
02:03It is the most viral video in all the official accounts of Mar del Plata,
02:09of tourism, of the mayor, of the municipality, of any area that has the municipality.
02:15At first, that video surpassed by far all the videos,
02:19so that you have dimensions, Bobby, the amount, the scope of that video.
02:24Then there were more videos, they demolished a house that was used as a bunker,
02:29as a kind of shelter.
02:31If a municipal official sees it, who is the Deputy Secretary of Security Daniel Martínez,
02:35who is the one who goes, people, these caretakers, these people.
02:41There we lost it a little in audio, but since Adrián mentioned these videos,
02:45I wanted to ask you in the case of reference,
02:47how is it in this war and in this controversy of rags that is generating controversy?
02:51Because some think it is to criminalize a social situation.
02:55In other cases, there are those who say,
02:57stop, that is not a labor, much less when there is an extortion,
03:00a threat of physical aggression or I damage your vehicle.
03:05I wanted to know if I recovered you there.
03:08Before seeing them, I want to go to Pleno and see them,
03:10and see the opinions I have here at the table.
03:12What was particular about this one last night,
03:15that ended with an arrest,
03:17and that even from the networks themselves,
03:19and from the portals themselves of Mar del Plata,
03:22they realize that he ended up in Batán.
03:24He was not even housed there in the police station,
03:27for later one would imagine, well, it is a contravention,
03:30it is a crime, he quickly regains freedom.
03:33No, they say he ended up in Batán.
03:37Yes, exactly, but of course, this is a cause for threats,
03:41but it has a history, it has several histories.
03:45That is why the prosecutor of the cause ended up sending him to Batán.
03:50The others take care of cars.
03:52It is not very difficult to detain a person because he is taking care of cars.
03:55Usually what the municipality does is say and warn,
03:58hey, don't be here, please.
04:01What is that you see in the videos in general?
04:05Of course.
04:07And also, Bobby, you know there is something very interesting that they do,
04:10because they grab him and ask him, where are you from?
04:12From here, the person answers,
04:14and to see what street is the one in the corner,
04:16and the man is seen hesitating,
04:18and finally confesses that he is not from Mar del Plata,
04:21that he came to earn some money,
04:23and they end up throwing him out of the area.
04:25It is a constant struggle,
04:27because it does not mean that the man leaves and does not return,
04:29or maybe he goes two blocks further from the shopping area.
04:33They are working hard, let's remember, those viral images.
04:36Yes, yes, let's see them, let's see them,
04:38because you describe them and I want to share them with people
04:41to also open the game here to the different opinions that there must be.
04:45Let's see some of these videos, please.
05:03We are all Argentines, man.
05:14We will not allow him to continue to laugh at us.
05:16We will not allow him to continue to laugh at us.
05:20Here no one is charged.
05:22Where are you from?
05:23Me, from here.
05:24What street is that?
05:25Here, I don't know what street.
05:27Here there is a corner, up there.
05:29And you don't know what street it is?
05:30I was living in Bolívar.
05:32So you were not living in Mar del Plata?
05:33No, I can't say that.
05:34It's over.
05:39I see him today and I don't see him anymore.
05:42No more here in Córdoba, Nicolás.
05:44No more in Mar del Plata.
05:45Hi, baby!
05:48We are running out of patience.
05:52Up, please, up.
05:55The car is not taken care of, nothing is washed.
06:03No more here in Córdoba, Nicolás.
06:05Well, there we had several of the situations,
06:07even some of which Adrián Mauchi had already described to us.
06:10They are fighting strongly and going deep with the issue of traps,
06:14of threats, the glass cleaner, the one who offers you to wash the car,
06:19and the rampaging that this generates in the public space,
06:23the situations derived from this or that.
06:25That is what is reflected there in these videos that we have just seen.
06:30Where, in addition, the municipality also says,
06:34and in some cases it is evidenced,
06:36that it is not the social situation that they have all year,
06:39that they have it sensed,
06:41on which the Mar Platense will remain, whether it is being attended or not.
06:45But here what is evidenced is that many people who come to this,
06:49who are not from Mar del Plata,
06:51and who are obviously inventing jobs that are not,
06:57in some cases, under threat,
06:59some become violent, a little bit there,
07:01and it leads to the rampage later in the public space.
07:03So this is a bit what we see there, Fito.
07:06The cornice is very subtle,
07:08between where it is a contravention of someone who wants to occupy
07:12or do something in a public space that is not allowed,
07:15and where the component of being already a threat or an extortion is added.
07:21Never, rather, the thin thick line
07:26between what is a crime and what is a free transit of a person.
07:34I never saw it so clear that that line is confused.
07:42Because, of course,
07:46the fight Montenegro is giving to the little rag that extorts,
07:52to the little rag that delinques,
07:54to the one that scratches you, that threatens you,
07:57and then, on the other side, you have the one who is in a street situation.
08:04It is Argentine too, it does not matter if it is from Mar del Plata or not.
08:08Because if not, we are going to start to provincialize,
08:12then to municipalize, and then we are going to make it happen.
08:15Ah, no, I am from such a neighborhood.
08:17If you are not from this neighborhood, you can't.
08:22I accompany the campaign of the lieutenant in full
08:27in the person who is committing a crime, a threat, an extortion.
08:32The rest is for the debate, Bobby.
08:36The rest is for the debate.
08:38Jorge, what do you see in this?
08:40No, I think that here the law has to be very hard.
08:43One generally, out of 100, finds 98 who are drunk, drugged,
08:48they demand that you pay them.
08:50Or you are sitting in a cafe and they pass by,
08:52if you don't buy them a sock, they finish you off badly,
08:54they tell you everything.
08:55This has to end, we can't live like this.
08:57Because if not, we are going to live in very special places,
09:00where it is full of police.
09:01We are agreeing there.
09:02Do you think they are criminals?
09:03We are agreeing there.
09:04Do you think they are criminals?
09:06Without a doubt, because they violate the law.
09:09The one who forces you to pay is extorting you,
09:13and therefore he is a criminal.
09:15Sure, but they are not all.
09:16You can't generalize that they are all drug dealers.
09:19Not all those who sell a sock force you to buy the sock.
09:22Because then we criticize when someone comes to rob you
09:24or, I don't know, to want to kill you for a motorcycle, for a car,
09:28and the guy is trying to earn his life with dignity,
09:30and it seems to me that he doesn't.
09:31We also asked for the participation of the state,
09:33and well, the state also has to be here.
09:35But what can be done is to think, maybe,
09:37I insist on regularizing the issue of the rags,
09:40that there is some way, as was done with the cartoneros,
09:42to do something where there is a list of people who want to work
09:45and look for the solution.
09:47But there I would be taking out those who really do it in a bad way
09:51or those who do it by threatening, as the doctor says.
09:53I think we all agree that the war that Montenegro has
09:58and that it is perfect, is against the one who commits crime.
10:01Sure.
10:02The rags, the one who mistreats you.
10:05Then we have to see what we do with the other,
10:07with the one who has good manners, who has always been in a street...
10:09But that one is also being taken out.
10:11The one who has always wanted to earn his life with dignity.
10:12The one who has always been in a street in winter,
10:14the one who is from there, not because he is from Mar del Plata,
10:17the one who has always been there.
10:19What does the state do with that person?
10:21This is the debate to install.
10:23Well, you said it again,
10:24many go to Mar del Plata exclusively for the season
10:27and they are not from there.
10:28That is also fine, that they control it
10:30and that they do that job of taking out those who really do it in a bad way
10:33and threaten the people who have the car.
10:36The one who transgresses the law has to go to jail.
10:38If you are tortured to wash your car, to take care of it, etc.,
10:44you are committing a crime, you are being tortured, jailed.
10:46If you are sleeping on the street, etc., etc.,
10:48and they give you a place to go to sleep and you don't want to go,
10:50as it happens here in the city of Buenos Aires,
10:52and you prefer to sleep on the street,
10:53well, there is no other solution, gentlemen.
10:55That you are going to put someone who is on the street in jail.
10:57But without a doubt.
10:58He is sick, Jorge.
10:59Well, if he is sick, let him be cured.
11:01But don't go to jail.
11:02On the street, on the street.
11:04But don't go to jail.
11:05To make it easier.
11:07I am surprised, I am surprised by what they just said.
11:09Well, then, since they are sick, let's leave them on the street.
11:12No, no one told you that.
11:14The police are doing what they are doing.
11:16When you go, you say, sir, what are you doing?
11:17No, no one told you that.
11:18Sir, do you want to be tortured to wash the car,
11:20to leave the car parked, etc.?
11:22Well, go to jail.
11:23That's another thing.
11:24Those are the little traps that impose you,
11:26that you pay them up to a certain amount of money.
11:28All.
11:29Because they don't even ask you to give them something.
11:31Of course.
11:32You saw that they take care of the car for free,
11:33that they tell you, we are going to take care of the car,
11:35and come, stay calm, go.
11:36When the little trap appears, they tell you,
11:38I'm going to take care of the car and you have to pay them.
11:40That's fine, but ...
11:41Once I talked to a lady who had the whole family,
11:43they were living on the street,
11:45and I found out to see if I could find a place to sleep.
11:50And then what he told me when I found her again
11:52was that they wanted to separate them.
11:53In many cases this happens,
11:54that they want to separate the boys on the one hand,
11:56or the boys on the other.
11:57Tell me, they separate them and steal them.
11:59Well, that's why.
12:00Then we should also see why many decide
12:02and prefer to be on the street and not be in a place like that.
12:05Excuse me, but you can't say that you are going to put someone who lives on the street in jail.
12:11You go and tell the mother, the father,
12:13who is drinking alcohol,
12:14who has five or six children,
12:15and you leave them on the street.
12:16Not everyone drinks alcohol.
12:17Well, tell them not to drink anything,
12:19tell them to drink chocolate,
12:20but they are with the child on the street.
12:22Let me tell you this, Bobby,
12:23tell them to drink chocolate,
12:24and you let the little ones on the street
12:27to be sent to beg for money.
12:29You have to do something.
12:30Well, not everyone is a criminal, Jorge.
12:32Not everyone is a criminal.
12:34But, come on, let's take the kids,
12:36let's put the father in jail.
12:38The person who is going to ask you to take care of the car,
12:41you will be very lucky.
12:43Generally, he forces you to pay him.
12:45At festivals, on the field,
12:47there are places that don't.
12:49I use my experience.
12:50There are places that don't.
12:51And I try to be honest.
12:52I already said that I am not anti-trapito.
12:54The other day I told a story,
12:55and then he brought me a problem at home.
12:56I even left the key to the trapito.
12:58But, well, it was out of trust.
13:00I met him a long time ago.
13:03His mother sold Milanese sandwiches
13:04at the exit of the field, a few meters away.
13:06I saw in that situation
13:08someone who never extorted me,
13:10who was always very kind.
13:12The family, the mother and the sister,
13:15trying to make a living selling sandwiches.
13:18So, well, nothing.
13:19I had a relationship.
13:20The day I arrived, it was too late.
13:22He said, well, if you want to leave me the key,
13:24then I'll arrange it for you.
13:25I mean, I'm not anti-trapito.
13:26I want to leave this said.
13:28Now, also,
13:29not to leave Jorge alone here.
13:32What do you want?
13:33You don't want this big guy to show up
13:35when sometimes it happens to you
13:37that you are wanting to park
13:39to go and enjoy a moment with your children,
13:41with your daughters,
13:42and suddenly these guys show up
13:44who, out of nowhere,
13:45invent something that you don't need.
13:48And you say, hey, don't take it the wrong way.
13:50I'll park it alone.
13:52You have to say where the state is.
13:54And they start you.
13:55Let's be honest.
13:56You have to say where the state is.
13:58Sure.
13:59Or when you go to the field
14:03and they say, no, no, friend,
14:05but now I charge you.
14:06No, come on, don't be bad.
14:08You say, hey, wait, when I come back,
14:10I'll give you what I can.
14:11No, no, what can I do?
14:12It's now and it's 15, 20 lucas.
14:14Yes.
14:15You say, wait, I don't know if I have 15, 20 lucas
14:17to go eat a hamburger with my daughter
14:19or a portion of pizza.
14:20And you're asking me for a 20-lucas fee now?
14:23Hey, come on, rat, if you touch Paul McCartney,
14:25how much did you get?
14:26Yes, yes, but wait, okay.
14:28I've had opportunities in life.
14:29I would like to have time to chat and explain.
14:31You didn't have the same.
14:33I understand what you have,
14:34but I was paying it in 12 quotas, in 6 quotas.
14:37I broke my soul.
14:38I'm coming after 8 months
14:40that I took her out with my daughter to see a recital.
14:43You don't have time to explain all that.
14:44He comes to your smoke, he kicks you,
14:46and he threatens you that if you don't give him 15, 20 lucas,
14:48you'll go back with the car scratched.
14:50It's that you pay him because you're afraid.
14:52And some have come back and found the car.
14:54You're afraid not to pay him.
14:55We're contradicting each other.
14:56We all agree.
14:57So if you pay because you're afraid,
14:59because he's going with your children,
15:00how many times have I gone to a recital and you have to pay him?
15:03But we agree on that.
15:04Then you have to go to jail, like it or not,
15:06you have to go to jail.
15:07Jorge, 8 and 56, Tribunales de la Plata,
15:10José, historically,
15:12one would come and leave the key for the car to park
15:15when there was room.
15:17And here in Comodoro Pi too.
15:18That's not a trap.
15:19Well, wait, in Comodoro Pi, you're right.
15:21So, I say, the thin thick line,
15:25the criminal, the one who distorts you,
15:27we don't agree on jail either,
15:29because I reiterate,
15:30if we keep putting everything in jail,
15:32we're going to have to make the largest jail in the world in Guinness.
15:36The solution, of course,
15:38which is the countervention,
15:40I always say that community work would be for this kind of thing,
15:44when I say community work.
15:46Because I'm also going to tell you one thing, Jorge,
15:48this man is there sleeping, he's in the center,
15:51he goes to 40 blocks and he's going to keep sleeping.
15:53What does he do?
15:54Because without sleeping he's not going to stay.
15:56That's what I was going to tell you today.
15:57You know, we need the video of the after to be viral.
16:00What happens after this story?
16:02Because here we see,
16:04and there are many neighbors of Mar del Plata with Valida
16:06and others from other places who are saying,
16:08oh, I would like that for my city.
16:10Because if you are also the neighbor
16:12of the one who is making you a ranch,
16:14who has you every day, who sets you on fire.
16:16The poor guy who is sleeping there,
16:18that poor guy who is sleeping in the garage
16:20of another poor guy who wants to get his car out.
16:23So, that's why I think it's good, Mr. Mayor.
16:26That guy didn't have education,
16:28he didn't have a family, he didn't have the opportunities we had.
16:31That's a guarantor's look.
16:34Who doesn't have opportunities here?
16:36Who doesn't have opportunities here in Argentina?
16:38You can be very poor.
16:39Millions.
16:40You have a free elementary school,
16:42a free elementary school, a free high school, a free university.
16:45Because third-generation addicts.
16:47You ask for a bachelor, he doesn't come.
16:49You ask for a waiter, he doesn't come.
16:51You have to tell the truth too.
16:53Let's not fool ourselves.
16:54An albañil goes to you on Monday,
16:56he goes to you on Friday, he charged you,
16:57he doesn't go to you on Monday, Marta,
16:58you have to tell the truth.
16:59There are seven-year-olds, ten-year-olds,
17:01who ask you for money in the streets.
17:03And what do you do with those parents?
17:04They don't go to school.
17:05And what do you do with those parents?
17:07And what do you do with those parents?
17:09You think they go to the square and buy things.
17:11But the kids go to the streets.
17:13But the boy lost the opportunity.
17:14Of course, he didn't have it.
17:15Let's do whatever the father wants,
17:16but the boy no longer had the opportunity.
17:18Third-generation addicts.
17:20It's not like that, Fito.
17:21What are you saying about that boy?
17:23At eight years old, I was from Cali.
17:25I had to go with a bag on my shoulder.
17:27We all have a history of poverty.
17:28I even had a problem on my shoulder
17:29because I saw the bag on my shoulder like this.
17:31However, I went out.
17:32When I wanted to work, I worked.
17:33We all have a history of poverty,
17:34those of us who are sitting and those of us who have arrived.
17:36But that boy,
17:37that you,
17:38that the father,
17:39the third generation,
17:40the father of addicts, of alcoholics,
17:41of whatever,
17:42sent him to ask for money.
17:43That boy,
17:44at seven years old,
17:45he already stole the opportunity.
17:46What do you do with that father?
17:47Can I finish?
17:48Yes, go ahead.
17:49He stole the opportunity from that boy.
17:51The father,
17:52society,
17:53and us.
17:54We all stole the opportunity from that seven-year-old boy.
17:58And us.
17:59Because we are part of society,
18:01because if not,
18:02the fault is never ours, Jimmy.
18:03And why are you going to take care of something
18:05that I really do not share in that?
18:07But we have to be a little more solidary.
18:08But I think we are all solidary.
18:09But how am I going to be responsible for a father
18:11who is dedicated to drinking alcohol,
18:12who is dedicated to drugging?
18:13If I was born in extreme poverty,
18:14and I started working when I was a child.
18:16The Christian conception of life
18:18allows me to feel a part responsible
18:22for not dedicating any more time
18:25to everything that one helps.
18:27Sometimes,
18:28I do not ask you.
18:29Do not you ask yourself
18:30if you could not make two minutes of your life
18:32for these boys?
18:33Of course.
18:34I do not do it.
18:35But that's why you're going to blame yourself for that.
18:37I am responsible.
18:38You are responsible.
18:39I said responsible.
18:40I did not say.
18:41But the father took it away from him.
18:42The state took it away from him.
18:43The state, yes.
18:44Stop.
18:45Ah, no, the state.
18:46And the state is us.
18:47Of course.
18:48So, if you do not want,
18:49from an individual point of view,
18:50I do not agree.
18:51From an individual point of view,
18:52I want it.
18:53In this, I do not agree.
18:54I agreed with all this.
18:55But in this, no.
18:56I am responsible.
18:57How am I going to be responsible?
18:58I'm not talking about the boy,
18:59I'm talking about the parents.
19:00And when I'm going to stop the father,
19:01you just told me,
19:02why are you going to stop him?
19:03Because he was lying down,
19:04because he was drunk.
19:05No, do not say that.
19:06Yes, sir.
19:07If you leave your children,
19:08you make them ask for money,
19:09you make them ask for money,
19:10and you are in the corner,
19:11and you go and find,
19:12and the lady is pregnant,
19:13then you need to catch him.
19:14The state has to take care of it.
19:15And the only way is to take him
19:16to a place where he is detained.
19:17Or do you think they are going to give him
19:18a bear hug?
19:19And the boy?
19:20Or do you think they are going to solve it
19:22But let me tell you,
19:23but the state has to take care of it.
19:24The state has to take care of it.
19:25It has to take care of the minor judge,
19:26the minor judge takes him to a place.
19:27But the state has to take care of it.
19:28The state has to take care of it.
19:29No, no, reformatory,
19:30bandit,
19:31they don't do these things.
19:32The state has to take care of it.
19:33The state has to take care of it.
19:34No, no, reformatory,
19:35bandit,
19:36they don't do these things.
19:37The state has to take care of it.
19:38No, no, reformatory,
19:39bandit,
19:40they don't do these things.
19:41The state has to take care of it.
19:42No, no, reformatory,
19:43bandit,
19:44they don't do these things.
19:46No, no, reformatory,
19:47bandit,
19:48they don't do these things.
19:49No, no, reformatory,
19:50bandit,
19:51they don't do these things.
19:52No, no, reformatory,
19:53bandit,
19:54they don't do these things.
19:55No, no, reformatory,
19:56bandit,
19:57they don't do these things.
19:58No, no, reformatory,
19:59bandit,
20:00they don't do these things.
20:01No, no, reformatory,
20:02bandit,
20:03they don't do these things.
20:04No, no, reformatory,
20:05bandit,
20:06they don't do these things.
20:07No, no, reformatory,
20:08bandit,
20:09they don't do these things.
20:10No, no, reformatory,
20:11bandit,
20:12they don't do these things.
20:13No, no, reformatory,
20:14bandit,
20:15they don't do these things.
20:16So,
20:17what is the need
20:18for education in our society?
20:25Look,
20:26there's a journalist
20:27who lost his life as an economist.
20:28His name was Tomás Bulack.
20:29He said,
20:30When one is poor
20:31studying solitary
20:32is the biggest act
20:33of rebellion against the system.
20:35Knowledge breaks
20:36the chains of slavery.
20:37If you don't study
20:38in Argentina,
20:39it is because you don't want to.
20:40It's free primary schools
20:41playing the same grade as you.
20:42It is free secondary schools
20:43and we don't.
20:44We always say, we can't, we can't.
20:46We have to work, we have to work.
20:48If your daughter comes at 4 in the morning
20:49and comes from drinking alcohol, drugs,
20:51she comes from the police,
20:52and you wash her panties,
20:53and you bring her food,
20:54she won't go to school.
20:55No, because there are people who can't.
20:56There are people who can't.
20:57Who won't be able to, who won't be able to,
20:58how won't they be able to?
20:59But the people who live on the street,
21:00how do you want them to go to any school?
21:01And they live on the street, precisely.
21:02But how do you want them to go to any school?
21:04I'll ask you a question.
21:05When you are on the street,
21:06you pass by the same sidewalk,
21:08you run if you come with your daughter.
21:10You have to tell the truth.
21:11Let's be hypocrites.
21:12Many go to school.
21:13You have to give the kids an opportunity.
21:14You have to tell it to many kids on the street
21:16and they go to school.
21:17I've heard several stories and they go to school.
21:19But in the countryside,
21:20they walk 50 kilometers every day
21:22and they go to school.
21:23And it rains and so on.
21:24When you want to study,
21:25when you want to work.
21:26It's not poverty, it's humility.
21:27You have to differentiate a humble home
21:30from a poor home.
21:31So, when there is poverty,
21:33poverty is not the lack of resources.
21:36It's your dad is an addict,
21:38your mom is an addict.
21:39So, there is no one who gives you the values
21:42that they give you in a humble home
21:43or that they gave us.
21:45So, the state doesn't give that boy the values either.
21:49I didn't blame the state.
21:50Blame me.
21:51Because it's easy to blame the state.
21:53I say, the father doesn't give it to him,
21:54the state doesn't give it to him
21:55and Fito Baquer doesn't give the value to that boy.
21:57You have to try to study,
21:59to go out,
22:00to avoid poverty.
22:02They take him as a soldier.
22:04Do you know how many families Baquer wants to have?
22:06They put him or they don't.
22:07They put him or they don't.
22:08He's a soldier.
22:09That boy,
22:10that boy,
22:11do you think he was able to decide
22:12to be a soldier?
22:13So, it's when...
22:15He didn't know anything else.
22:16It's when you,
22:17one step,
22:18two people,
22:19take one step here
22:20and the other one there,
22:21each step takes you far away
22:23from school,
22:24from education
22:25and takes you
22:26to those neighborhoods
22:27to crime,
22:28to drugs.
22:29So,
22:30the father was responsible,
22:32the state was responsible
22:33and we are responsible.