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00:00First, firefighters from Canada and from Mexico are being deployed to Los Angeles as the devastating
00:17California wildfires rage for a seventh day. The governor of California, Gavin Newsom,
00:24says this could be the worst natural disaster in American history. In all, 24 people are
00:30confirmed to have lost their lives and over 100,000 residents have been forced to evacuate.
00:37Many of those have lost their homes. Today, the largest fire in Palisades remains less
00:44than 15% contained, but some of the evacuees are nonetheless keen to return and see the
00:51destruction with their own eyes. Solange Mougin has this report.
00:59The fires may have come and gone, burning much of everything in their wake in this neighbourhood
01:04of the Pacific Palisades, but that doesn't mean the danger's passed. With the National
01:09Guard blocking roads and a curfew in place from sunrise to sunset, many residents have
01:14nonetheless lined up, trying to get back into their homes, either to quickly grab beloved
01:20items or more necessities, or to simply see with their own eyes where their homes once
01:25stood.
01:26To collect my dad's ashes, which we had to leave behind, as well as my grandma's ashes,
01:31which we also had to leave behind.
01:33It's gotten exponentially harder to get in, rightfully so, because of the looting. I did
01:38get in two days ago when the market burned down and I had to turn around because of the
01:42smoke and you couldn't get visibility and it's like you were in a ball of fire.
01:46Not only do blazes continue unchecked in the Los Angeles area, but there are also added
01:51risks of something firefighters call spotting, or new blazes caused by blowing embers. The
01:57Weather Service has issued several red flag warnings of strong winds, with the greatest
02:02risk coming on Tuesday. And then there are the dangers of broken gas lines, contaminated
02:07ash, as well as unstable structures. Finally, there's also the very real risk of looting.
02:13For residents, it is a long and difficult wait.
02:16I'd be frustrated, but the truth is, is that anybody who understands even the slightest
02:22bit about fires knows that all it needs is a good wind and things can turn bad quickly.
02:27So I know they're doing that for everyone's safety. It doesn't make us want our belongings
02:35out of there any less.
02:37With some 100,000 people still under evacuation orders, many residents are not only grieving
02:42their lost homes and communities, but they're also anxiously waiting it out, hoping for
02:47an end soon to the blazes.
02:50Well, as Californians reeling then from the fires, experts around the world are starting
02:56to ask how we can better prepare ourselves for more fires in the future as the climate
03:02emergency worsens. One of those experts is Alexander Held from the Resilience Program
03:09at the European Forest Institute. He joins us live on the program now. Thanks for making
03:14the time good to speak to you.
03:16My pleasure.
03:17Look, when we zoom out from those scenes in California, what lessons do you as an expert
03:25draw in terms of fire management?
03:29Well, with all the tragedy and catastrophe that we're observing, the fact is that a lot
03:37of experts from the fire community and from the fire science community have predicted
03:42some of those situations. And now we have the opportunity to really learn from the disaster
03:48and start rebuilding reconstruction better into a more resilient future. So let's use
03:54this disaster as good as we can.
03:56Indeed. And when it comes to thinking about climate change, of course, the top priority
04:01or one of the top priorities is mitigation, how we cut down on greenhouse gases, for example.
04:07But given that experts like yourself say that the planet may well pass that 1.5 degrees
04:15Celsius threshold in the coming years, the other question becomes then how it is that
04:20we humans adapt, how we build resilience within the cities we live in to prepare ourselves
04:27for more events like this in the future. Just tell us a bit about what steps practically
04:31you think should be taken.
04:33Well, the first prerequisite is, of course, as you mentioned, stopping the greenhouse
04:37emissions and then in preparing a resilient situation, a more resilient situation when
04:43it comes to wildfire and urban population. It's clear we have the ingredients for fires,
04:48topography, weather and fuel, and we can't influence topography and change the weather.
04:53So the only tool we have is addressing the conditions, the characteristics of the vegetation
04:59that is fuel for a fire. And that can be mitigated and modified to a situation where
05:06we will still have fires, but acceptable fires and manageable fires.
05:10Look, and when we talk about reconstruction in Los Angeles in particular, how do you think
05:18homes and communities there should be rebuilt now, keeping in mind that, of course, there
05:23could be more fires on this scale to come?
05:28Okay, there are a lot of programs out there and concepts in America and around the world,
05:32fire wise concepts, fire smart concepts, building construction guidelines, etc. In terms of
05:39how is your house prepared, how is your property prepared, how is your garden prepared, how
05:44are the roads, access for firefighters, exit for evacuations and all that. So this is a
05:50unique chance now of rebuilding into a better future. But one of the crucial points is that
05:56the society has to accept in the future, we have to manage our landscape and we have
06:03to live with fire and not like you tried in the past, living without fire and resulting
06:09in an overgrown landscape that then goes up in flames in these severe conditions. So this
06:14is the first step to take in terms of building awareness for the society that there is no
06:20future without fire. You decide what fire and how do you like your smoke.
06:26Look, and that is a stark image that you paint for us that these fires are going to happen
06:31sort of come what may. And that makes me think about somewhere like California, that is one
06:36of the wealthiest states in the United States, which is one of the wealthiest countries in
06:41the world. Sort of what does that tell us when we zoom out even more about what needs
06:48to be done now to support those developing countries that clearly don't have the resources
06:53of somewhere like California, but could well face devastating fires linked to climate change
06:59in the future?
07:00Well, we see in California, as in other places that are highly developed, that in situations
07:06like this, the best fire service in the world cannot do much. So the lesson to draw from
07:12countries that are in a developing stage, or like where I'm in Germany, in a state where
07:17fires are becoming more frequent, is that we start from the start engaging in an interdisciplinary
07:23approach to managing fires, not only firefighting, not only suppression, but accepting that fire
07:29will play a role in the future. It will be there if you like it or not. And if you accept
07:34this, then you need foresters, urban planners, special planning, tourism, environment, education,
07:40all on one table to develop objectives for the future that everybody can subscribe to.
07:47But the prerequisite is accept that there will be fire and there will be smoke. And
07:52we have to find a way that we can live with that in these conditions. And it is possible.
07:57And look, just a final question for you then, is it possible in the future that areas like
08:03Pacific Palisades that have been so devastated now, could be simply uninhabitable as a result
08:10of fire risk?
08:12I think we as a human race are very adaptable. And we have examples from other hot and dry
08:18places in the world where if you manage sustainably and resilient, then you can live in these
08:24conditions and there's no reason to give up. It should rather encourage us to really mitigate
08:32climate change and provide for a living environment where we can live in balance with our environment.
08:39Alexander Hell talking to us there from the Resilience Programme at the European Forests
08:43Institute. Thanks very much indeed.
08:46Thank you very much.
08:47Well, for those who are directly caught up in the fires in Los Angeles, there are more
08:53immediate questions to answer now. Among them, will my insurance cover the rebuilding of
08:59my home? Delano D'Souza has this report.
09:04In this Los Angeles neighbourhood ravaged by wildfires, a resident returns to inspect
09:09the damage. Jesus Hernandez finds his home has been completely destroyed.
09:14Again, you would be met with the living room, which is literally right here in this area.
09:20As Jesus inspects what little remains, worry starts to mount.
09:27Hopefully the insurance can pay for most of it. If not, then we're going to have to
09:35stay with friends or someone.
09:37Many residents in Southern California remain anxious as insurance companies have suspended
09:42or limited their coverage in the past two years. In the affluent neighbourhood of Pacific
09:47Palisades, thousands of contracts have been cancelled. This couple struggled but eventually
09:53found an insurance policy days before last week's fire broke out.
09:57I wonder how many other people weren't able to get that policy at the 11th hour because
10:00you worked very hard to get it.
10:02Between recurring wildfires, flooding and the risk of an earthquake, California remains
10:07costly for insurance firms eager to leave the state.
10:11Authorities have now forbidden companies from cancelling policies for the next year.
10:16So right now, my immediate goal is to make sure that we get the claims paid, the claims
10:21paid as quick as possible and that we get people on the road to recovery as quickly as
10:26we can.
10:27While experts estimate the damage and economic loss could cost between $135 billion to $150
10:34billion, insurance companies could wind up paying nearly $20 billion.
10:42Well, let's look a little now at the political fallout from the wildfires in California.
10:47Our foreign editor, Ketavan Ghorjasthani, with me now.
10:50And look, Ketavan, Donald Trump will be taking office a week today and the incoming
10:56president is already pointing fingers, isn't he?
10:59Absolutely. In the past few days, he's been attacking the Democratic leadership of the
11:04state of California, especially the governor, Gavin Newsom, who's been a longtime foe of
11:10the elected president.
11:12And mostly it has been about mismanagement of water resources.
11:18Trump accusing Gavin Newsom of being incompetent, but also more specifically, for
11:25example, not signing a water restoration declaration.
11:29This has been looked into by U.S.
11:32reporters and apparently there is no such document that Gavin Newsom could not have
11:37signed. What Donald Trump seems to be referring to is a sort of spat that he had with
11:42Gavin Newsom back in 2020, so during his first term at a time when there were wildfires
11:49in California and Donald Trump had sought to divert some water from the northern part
11:56of California through a presidential memorandum to bring it down to some of the
12:01farmlands further south, something that Gavin Newsom could not block as a governor,
12:07but opposed publicly, saying that it was bad environmentally, especially for some
12:13species that were close to extinction.
12:16It was in the end the California attorney general that blocked that move by Donald
12:21Trump. But even if that is true, that this water was not brought from the north to the
12:27south, experts say that it would have had little bearing on what is happening right now
12:31in California, that this is not about a lack of water because they point to the
12:37reservoirs in and around Los Angeles as saying that they're all pretty much at normal
12:43average levels for this time of the year, except one, which is a reservoir in the
12:49area of the Pacific Palisades that has been hit hard.
12:53This one was closed down for maintenance and that is why it was empty.
12:58So nothing about managing the water there.
13:02The only thing that Gavin Newsom agrees with Donald Trump on is this question about
13:08why some fire hydrants were empty and were dry.
13:12And for that, he has launched an investigation.
13:15They're looking into that.
13:16Another person that's been attacked by Donald Trump also is the mayor of Los Angeles,
13:21Karen Bass. She's been attacked for supposedly cutting the funding to the fire
13:28department of the city of Los Angeles by about 17 million dollars.
13:33That is a little bit misleading because, yes, that budget has been cut.
13:38But the city council also, parallel to this, added 53 million in pay raises, added 58
13:46million in new kits for the firefighters.
13:49So in the end, technically, the budget grew by 7 percent, not reduced.
13:55And a lot of experts also say that there's not really been an impact on the fire
14:00department's ability to fight the fire.
14:02It's just simply that the fire was too big.
14:05Look, and the fires are still raging, Ketavan, but there are already conversations now
14:10turning to recovery and reconstruction.
14:12And on that as well, the political blame game from Donald Trump is turning towards the
14:18White House. Yes, the FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, already saying
14:24that they've had about 24,000 people applying for federal assistance.
14:31And Donald Trump coming out recently saying that Joe Biden had left, quote, no money in
14:38FEMA. Now, it is true that the FEMA funding or that that fund has been depleted over the
14:45past year because of the multiplication of natural disasters.
14:50But Joe Biden signed a bill back in December to replenish that fund, putting in 29
14:58billion dollars into that fund.
15:00So the current balance of FEMA is actually 27 billion dollars.
15:05Now, you might say this is likely not going to be enough in order to cover all the
15:10disaster recovery that will come from these wildfires, but also possible other natural
15:16disasters coming up.
15:17But it is not no money.
15:20But this blame game about FEMA and the role of FEMA has been something that Donald Trump
15:25has used. We saw it back in the fall during Hurricane Helene, where he accused
15:30Joe Biden of using the FEMA funds to help illegal immigrants instead of helping those
15:36harder hit areas.
15:38This is something that has also been debunked.
15:41But Donald Trump has made FEMA a target.
15:45We've seen that in the past.
15:47The question now is what he's going to do when he gets into office.
15:50He has said that broadly he wants to cut the budget of federal agencies.
15:55He hasn't spoken specifically about FEMA.
15:58But given that FEMA has been a target over and over again, there is some worry among
16:03people who work in and with FEMA that that could be one of those areas where he would
16:09cut a budget. And when you see what is happening right now in California and what we've
16:13seen in the past few months in the United States from wildfires to hurricanes, FEMA is
16:19an essential organization in the United States when it comes to that disaster recovery.
16:24Ketavan Ghorjasdhani, for the moment, thanks very much.
16:27Indeed.