KHABAR Mohammad Malick Kay Saath | Military courts sentence - Big News | ARY News | 26th Dec 2024
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00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, I am Muhammad Malik.
00:28When the first 25 people were sentenced to death by the military court,
00:32then we saw the statement of the European Union,
00:35then the statement of the UK government,
00:38then the statement of the Americans,
00:40everyone condemned it and expressed their concern.
00:43And then we saw Richard Grenell,
00:46his interview went on,
00:47so it seemed that Pakistan was in the crosshairs.
00:50But today's developments are very interesting.
00:52Today, 60 people were sentenced.
00:55And according to the ISPR release, this process has been concluded.
00:59That is, 85 people.
01:00It was about 105.
01:01Do you remember, some people were released before Eid,
01:03who were being punished less,
01:05or who did not have a crime.
01:08And the punishments that have been announced,
01:09this too has been done under a contract.
01:12The PTI lawyers and the government lawyers,
01:15which are on a petition in the Supreme Court,
01:17against them, that there should not be a trial of civilians.
01:21So there was this agreement that if the decisions have been made,
01:25and if the Supreme Court decides tomorrow,
01:27that there cannot be a trial of civilians,
01:29then these punishments will be annulled.
01:31So the chapter of this has not yet been closed.
01:34People will be handed over to the jail officers,
01:37and their punishments will begin.
01:38But the ultimate decision will be made,
01:40that who spends how much time,
01:42that this will be the Supreme Court's decision.
01:45Today's punishments include,
01:47a group of captains are also retired,
01:49a brigadier is also there,
01:50and then Imran Khan's nephew,
01:53Ahsan Niazi is also there.
01:54Ahsan Niazi is our colleague,
01:56Hafizullah Niazi is his nephew.
01:58So it's more like striking close to home.
02:01Anyway, we will talk about that later,
02:03when the details of their verdicts will come,
02:06that on what basis the punishments were made.
02:08Because if it's just about the uniform,
02:11then maybe 10 years,
02:12I don't understand, they must have done something else too.
02:14Anyway, there have been a lot of developments.
02:17Now where is the discussion going?
02:19At the moment, the most heated debate is going on,
02:21that America has become involved.
02:23Richard Grenell, but if you look at his latest tweets,
02:26then the person gets a little more worried.
02:28Today he has tweeted, or posted,
02:31in which he is saying that the Pakistan Embassy,
02:33which is in Washington,
02:33should also respond to us.
02:35Ambassador Rizwan Sheikh has explaining to do.
02:38And the rest, he has scolded Khawaja Asif.
02:40And Khawaja Asif said,
02:41in our program yesterday,
02:42he was very upset, we will talk about that.
02:44Now there are only two impressions.
02:46One is that America has become involved,
02:48because Richard Grenell has done it.
02:50Talk to the people of the government,
02:51they say that this person is in a private capacity,
02:53he is nominated, he will have a role in the future.
02:56He is becoming an envoy,
02:57President Trump has made him an envoy,
03:00for two countries,
03:01Pakistan is not included in it.
03:03And now he is giving private advice,
03:04tomorrow some committees will sit,
03:06if there is a government talk,
03:08other people will also talk.
03:10So it is being blown out of proportion.
03:13The PTI is very excited.
03:15There is a double-edged sword.
03:17The question arises,
03:18if there is any benefit to this, then it is fine.
03:21But if this solution has also passed,
03:23where everyone thought that the punishments
03:24will not come forward,
03:25there were 25 people,
03:27there was an objection,
03:27now there are 60 people.
03:29Imran Khan Sahib also feels that
03:30his military trial will take place,
03:32after today's developments.
03:33And if this American fear is also gone,
03:36then will these be curtains for the PTI?
03:40Is it a double-edged sword,
03:41which will talk to everyone,
03:43either way?
03:44Nusrat Javai Sahib is with us,
03:46Kashif Abbasi is with us,
03:47Mazar Abbasi is with us.
03:50Is America involved, Shahji?
03:52I don't think so.
03:54Look, there is a very interesting thing.
03:58Elon Musk,
04:00he has also entered into his
04:01artificial intelligence.
04:04You know that he is different.
04:05He has introduced a system of his own,
04:09that is GORK.
04:12He has also made an advanced version of it.
04:15If you write his name on it,
04:18then you will know about him,
04:20that he is a very corrupt man.
04:23Maulav Dovan was a big boss there,
04:27who probably wanted to come into politics.
04:30He kept doing influence pending for him.
04:33After that,
04:34he also did lobbying for the
04:37government of Hungary,
04:40which was also funded by him.
04:41We are talking about Grenell.
04:42Yes, yes, Richard Grenell.
04:44And I am not saying this,
04:46it is Elon Musk who is saying this.
04:49Elon Musk, who himself is a right-hand man
04:52of Trump at the moment.
04:53He is a right-hand man.
04:54In fact, many jokers there
04:57are calling him President Musk.
05:00So, I think,
05:02by the grace of God,
05:03our advocates of justice in America,
05:07they are very happy people.
05:09They are doctors,
05:09most of them are professionals,
05:11very strong people.
05:13So, by looking at his habits
05:17and his profile,
05:18they have invested some money.
05:19Do you think he is more like a lobbyist?
05:21I think,
05:23look,
05:25any government official,
05:27has number one priority.
05:30If you prepare yourself for the day
05:34that you are not going to spare that person,
05:36then believe me,
05:37you will not be able to tweet him
05:39as much as he is going to tweet about Pakistan.
05:42Secondly, he has gained so much fame
05:44just by sitting idle.
05:45Thirdly,
05:46I am feeling a little jealous.
05:50Look,
05:51this person who has been nominated,
05:54first of all,
05:55his support is not so good for us
05:58because we have to make the state of Madinah.
06:01His interests are such that
06:02they are not accepted in the state of Madinah,
06:05unfortunately.
06:07So, this is a little...
06:08On top of that,
06:10moreover, he has done this,
06:13that he said yesterday,
06:15the day before yesterday,
06:16he gave an interview to Newsmax,
06:18in which he said,
06:20that the foreign ministers who have been nominated,
06:22Yes, he will talk about nuclear now.
06:24He will talk about nuclear and missiles now.
06:26Now, the thing is that
06:28I have found out about him,
06:29he is in active contact with Mark and Rubio,
06:34who are pro-Imran,
06:35and he is doing a lot of lobby.
06:37So far,
06:38Marko is non-committer.
06:40He is saying that we will see,
06:41he will charge me.
06:42He is not saying no,
06:44he is not saying that yes,
06:45I will do something.
06:47But,
06:47according to that person,
06:48who is my source,
06:49is a very hands-on type.
06:52He will say,
06:52you are the one who will decide my agenda,
06:54who are you?
06:55Yes, this will happen,
06:56you cannot talk on behalf of anybody.
06:57No, no,
06:58and then technically speaking,
07:00look, my brother,
07:01he has been nominated as special envoy,
07:04and in that too,
07:05he had specified,
07:07he said that...
07:08Venezuela, North Korea.
07:09Venezuela and North Korea,
07:11now Pakistan,
07:14I don't know how...
07:15Now, your father has the same question to you.
07:17No, no, but it's not just North Korea and Venezuela,
07:20it's just two special missions,
07:22including North Korea.
07:24So, it's open,
07:26there can be more.
07:26Open-ended,
07:27but even in that capacity,
07:30what I want to insist on with Kashif,
07:35look, like...
07:36But, Venezuela and North Korea,
07:37both are on different sides in geography,
07:40in our area...
07:40No, but,
07:41it's not like that,
07:42in the past,
07:43the one who died later,
07:47I can't remember his name right now,
07:48but he was a special envoy.
07:50Hermitage.
07:51No, no,
07:52Holbrook.
07:54Richard Holbrook.
07:55Holbrook,
07:56if you go by the hierarchical structure,
07:59he comes under the State Department.
08:02He is first answerable to,
08:05like Holbrook,
08:08he was the direct president.
08:09So, this is also possible,
08:10that they left him and made him a tester.
08:12I think,
08:13if you ask me,
08:15technically,
08:16as much as I understand the American political system,
08:20I read it as an academic study,
08:22in the Fletcher School of Law,
08:24in 1986.
08:25I read it with the money of the Americans,
08:27Mashallah.
08:28I tried my best to be their tout,
08:30but they said,
08:30no, not more than this.
08:31The Americans don't waste you.
08:34So, in that,
08:35my dear brother,
08:37that,
08:39this,
08:40as a special envoy,
08:42what they are doing.
08:44Special envoy,
08:46it depends on the access to the president,
08:48not on the designation.
08:49Mr. Kashyap,
08:50because,
08:51about this,
08:51Trump also tweeted,
08:54posted,
08:54whatever you call it,
08:55he's our star,
08:56and I'll appoint him in something very important.
08:59So, how many envoys,
09:01how many envoys,
09:03No, sorry, Kashyap,
09:04I mean, from Kashyap,
09:06absolutely.
09:07One word,
09:08that, apart from the American system,
09:12I understand that,
09:13in one reference,
09:14Richard's,
09:15as special envoy,
09:16nomination,
09:18has to be downgraded.
09:19Why?
09:20Because, previously,
09:22he had been,
09:23acting director general of national intelligence.
09:27No, he's saying that,
09:27his name was also running,
09:29that maybe he was running for Secretary of State.
09:32Will there be American involvement or not?
09:34Or is there excitement?
09:36I think it's too early.
09:38Let's wait till 20th January.
09:40Whether a message will come directly or not.
09:42Richard is enjoying this,
09:44social media thing.
09:45I don't think,
09:46anyway,
09:47with due respect,
09:48I don't think,
09:49No, my question is,
09:50that,
09:50is Richard Grenell,
09:53totally a lone ranger,
09:55who himself is showing,
09:56that he's involved in Bihar,
09:58whether,
09:58he's influenced by him or not,
10:01or,
10:02at any level,
10:04is he reflecting the thought of the coming administration,
10:06or not,
10:07that Richard Grenell is an individual.
10:09That's my question.
10:10For now, he looks like an individual.
10:12For now, it doesn't seem that,
10:13he's the entire Trump administration.
10:16But, is he an important person or not?
10:18But, this is the first decision.
10:20I think he's an important man.
10:21Is he important enough?
10:23He is important enough.
10:24Why?
10:25He was being considered for Secretary of State.
10:28That's a level,
10:30where there was a tie between two or three people.
10:32And then,
10:34but still, it was adjusted.
10:37Like you said,
10:38Donald Trump's own tweet,
10:39about him,
10:40so he considers him a star.
10:44So, would really listen to him.
10:45The problem is that,
10:49Richard Grenell, for example,
10:50in a room,
10:51on a table,
10:52where a lot of people are sitting,
10:54if he raises the Imran Khan issue,
10:56then,
10:57what will the Pentagon say?
10:59Who has direct contact with our army?
11:02What will other people say?
11:03People are saying to the government,
11:04that there are a lot of people who can counter him.
11:06They can say whatever they want.
11:07And,
11:08it will be a big impact on Trump,
11:11how he responds to it.
11:12But, you know about Trump as well,
11:13one day you're his star,
11:14the next day, he'll throw you out.
11:16Right now, Imran Khan hasn't given him any reason not to.
11:21Because, Trump is not a rational actor.
11:23He's not a statesman,
11:25he's not a president who has passed through a regime.
11:30He's a very off-the-cuff,
11:32and very low-key president.
11:34He's done it before,
11:36and he can do it again.
11:37So, I think it will come down to Donald Trump,
11:39how he sees this.
11:41Mazhar, before I come to you,
11:44you do not write it off.
11:46But, you do not overplay it either.
11:47Okay.
11:48Mazhar, listen to me,
11:49Khawaja Sahab was talking about nuclear issues,
11:52and about Grenell as well.
11:54So, what did he say about that?
11:55Because, Grenell has commented on what he said,
11:59he has commented on that as well.
12:00In fact, Zach Goldsmith has also replied,
12:02that there is no such operation as Goldsmith.
12:04But, listen to what Khawaja Sahab was saying yesterday.
12:24Pakistan has seen a lot of difficulties in the past 75-76 years,
12:27for its nuclear program.
12:29An administration is going to come,
12:31and in that, a person,
12:33who is not even a cabinet member,
12:34his statements are being given so much importance,
12:38in the context of Pakistan.
12:40This is a bit too excessive.
12:41This is how it is being seen.
12:43Imran Khan, according to the laws of Pakistan,
12:45his cases will go on.
12:47The decision will be made.
12:48There will be criminals.
12:49There will be prisoners.
12:50There will be no criminals.
12:51There will be no prisoners.
12:52This is our internal affair.
12:53Imran Khan is an Israeli asset.
12:55No one can bulldoze us.
12:57No matter what issue it is,
12:58whether it is a nuclear issue or anything else,
12:59no one can bulldoze Pakistan.
13:01If you put your hand on Pakistan's neck and see,
13:04nobody will get away with it.
13:05Those who have put their hands on Pakistan,
13:07then they are there.
13:07I don't want to answer you in Punjabi.
13:10Understand, we will die,
13:11but we will not accept the pressure.
13:15Yesterday, I requested him to stop it.
13:17I said, stop it in Punjabi.
13:19You wanted to add something?
13:21Look,
13:22why is Richard Grenell getting so much acceptance?
13:24Zalmay Khalil has been talking about such things for a long time.
13:27Because of his position,
13:28because of the appointment he got.
13:30If he hadn't got this appointment,
13:31then probably,
13:33many congressmen and senators would have been talking about it.
13:38He has an important position.
13:40Because of which,
13:41his talk is getting amplified.
13:42It is becoming big.
13:43People are quoting him on TV channels in Pakistan.
13:45Secondly,
13:46he said that Pakistan has already endured a lot of pressure.
13:49With a lot of apology.
13:50Mr. Khadija also used to say that
13:52if they switch on the ventilator,
13:54then Pakistan will sit down.
13:56I don't know if we can sit on those ventilators.
13:58Mr. Wasif also went out under the pressure of the American president.
14:01That's why there is pressure.
14:03These things are easy till today.
14:05The day there will be pressure from there,
14:07then we will see what Pakistan will do.
14:09You must remember,
14:10during the time of Imran Khan,
14:11when he talked about the regime change,
14:13Mr. Bajwa went to a think tank
14:16and had to give a speech to appease the Americans.
14:20Mr. Madad, I have the same question for you.
14:22How serious should the Grenada development be?
14:27Is he really a lonely man?
14:31Whether he is a lobbyist,
14:33or links, or whatever.
14:35If he doesn't deliver today,
14:38can he deliver tomorrow?
14:40With the Trump administration,
14:41how serious should he be?
14:45Look, sir,
14:46I think there is a lot of net practice going on.
14:50When things change,
14:54a new administration will come,
14:56and it won't be a normal administration.
14:59It will be an extraordinary administration,
15:02because Trump is an extraordinary man.
15:04And with an extraordinary man,
15:06you can expect an extraordinary statement,
15:10you can expect extraordinary action.
15:13Because when he came back,
15:16he fought such a big battle,
15:21where the whole administration was against him,
15:24and he fought against it,
15:26and he won the battle.
15:27As for Pakistan,
15:30maybe I'm wrong,
15:33but if Imran Khan's military trial takes place,
15:37in the military court,
15:38then American pressure will come.
15:40And by the time the American pressure trial takes place,
15:44Trump will come.
15:46And Imran's most crucial card is the Trump card.
15:49Because he has already used the rest of the cards.
15:53He has given the final call.
15:55So what if the Trump card doesn't come?
15:57If the Trump card doesn't come,
15:59look, the things that were going on today,
16:02that the civil disobedience movement is going on,
16:04I don't know how it is going on,
16:06how far things have stopped.
16:08But the PTI generally,
16:12and Imran Khan too,
16:14have an expectation
16:16that this new regime change,
16:19the regime change that has taken place in America,
16:21is a sign of hope for them.
16:25Whether it is fulfilled or not,
16:26that's a different thing.
16:28Because what other option is there?
16:30Negotiations are going on.
16:32But the question is,
16:36if this passes,
16:39if America is not involved in the next 2-4 months,
16:42then the people of Islamabad will be very comfortable.
16:45Now America is also on the side.
16:47Now you give.
16:49As they say in Punjabi.
16:50No holds barred is already going on.
16:52And if this last thing in America
16:54doesn't come out openly,
16:56then you don't see a lot of strictness on PTI.
17:00Then the military trial also happens.
17:03If you do a lot of strictness,
17:05then what will you do?
17:06Military trial,
17:07and then punishment.
17:08If you do a military trial,
17:10suppose you give them 10 years of imprisonment,
17:13will the PTI end?
17:15Will the political party ever end like this?
17:18You are creating a new political cadre
17:21from the jails.
17:23You are creating a new political cadre from these punishments.
17:26The PTI has ended even now.
17:28Two people are intact.
17:30One is Imran Khan
17:31and the other is his voter base.
17:33But the voter base will only deliver
17:35when there is an election.
17:37If there is a protest,
17:38then it seems that they have broken their back.
17:40There is no capacity for protest in the PTI.
17:42Otherwise, negotiations are taking place.
17:44Everything is happening.
17:45If there was a capacity for protest,
17:46then it wouldn't have happened.
17:47So Imran Khan is intact.
17:49His voter base is intact below.
17:51I agree with you.
17:52I am in the middle of the party.
17:53It's just noise.
17:54There is a party noise.
17:56Whoever you point your finger at,
17:57he is the leader,
17:58otherwise he is nothing.
17:59But that will be translated in the election.
18:03Election is such a strength.
18:05Whether you want it or not,
18:07that is a different matter.
18:09Local body elections are overdue in Punjab.
18:13They were supposed to be held in October,
18:14but they have not been held yet.
18:15They are supposed to be held now.
18:16So they won't be held.
18:17This means that the fear factor of the Muslim League
18:20is present in its place.
18:22Yesterday, you were telling us about Khawaja Asim.
18:25If that is such an unimportant statement,
18:29then why was Khawaja Asim so emotional?
18:32Let me come to you.
18:34Jazeb Ali is with us.
18:36He is our Bureau Chief in Washington.
18:38Let's ask him the latest.
18:40What is happening there?
18:43Richard Grenell has put on such a show.
18:46What is his status there?
18:48What is it?
18:49Assalam-o-Alaikum, Jazeb.
18:50Yes, Walaikum-as-salam.
18:52Tell us, who is this person?
18:55How serious is he?
18:56Who takes him seriously?
18:57Tell us.
19:00Whether a person takes him seriously or not,
19:02Trump has specially invited him.
19:06But this is a very strange thing.
19:08The way he has become active on social media,
19:11on Twitter, which is now called X,
19:13it seems as if he is a worker of Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaaf.
19:17The way his tweets are coming out on a daily basis,
19:21and yesterday he tagged the Pakistan Embassy,
19:26and the Pakistani Ambassador, Rizwan Shaikh,
19:28told him that he needs to give explanations
19:31on many issues that are happening in Pakistan at the moment.
19:34And a while ago, Qasim Khansuri tweeted,
19:37in which he said that the U.S. aid
19:40had given a large amount of $15 million
19:43to the Election Commission of Pakistan,
19:45which is sabotaging democracy in Pakistan,
19:48the rule of law and human rights.
19:50And after the approval of the Congress,
19:53he tweeted...
19:54We know these things, Jazeb.
19:56We know these things.
19:57Tell me, you are sitting there.
19:59If there is any interesting information about this,
20:02tell us.
20:03We know these things.
20:04We know.
20:05We read all the tweets and everything.
20:06The information is that the PTI is spending a lot of money,
20:10on the Congressmen as well.
20:12And of course, when the Trump administration came,
20:15Richard Garneau, who is talking,
20:17he is not talking like that.
20:20How is it being funded?
20:21Which lobbyists are being used?
20:23This is a matter of great concern.
20:26You are sitting there, right?
20:27Find out and tell us.
20:28Is that a guess, sir?
20:30I was just about to ask,
20:31when you said that they are spending money,
20:33is this your estimation or information?
20:36No, no, this is information.
20:37It is not an estimation.
20:38It is information.
20:39And here, they are only spending money.
20:41They are not doing it here.
20:42Then share it with us.
20:43If not today, then share it the day after tomorrow.
20:45Tell us.
20:46Which lobbying firms are there?
20:47Who is doing what?
20:48So that we get to know.
20:50Look, this is happening on an individual basis.
20:52It is happening in the form of groups as well.
20:53Look, there is a PAC,
20:54Pakistan Political Action Committee.
20:56They also met with Richard Garneau.
20:58And the way their statements were presented,
21:00we got to know from there,
21:01some people told us,
21:02how it is being funded.
21:03But in America, you cannot sit and talk like this,
21:05when there is no evidence.
21:07Okay, fine.
21:08Okay, fine.
21:09Thank you very much.
21:10Find out the evidence.
21:11Then we will talk to you.
21:14The second angle has come,
21:15of the punishments.
21:16Punishments have been made.
21:17There was a lot of commotion.
21:19The European Union, etc.
21:20And I see some duplicity.
21:22Like today,
21:23I want to make a statement to Mr. Gauhar.
21:24You listen first.
21:25What did he say today?
21:47I think everyone should speak the truth.
21:49The government had sworn to speak the truth.
21:51They should also speak the truth.
21:52Those who said,
21:53they should not have let the decisions be announced at this time.
21:55I think it is very important for people to know,
21:57why the decisions will be announced.
21:59When it was discussed in the bench,
22:01the PTI lawyers argued that
22:03due to the lack of evidence,
22:05there is no evidence.
22:07So, it is very important for people to know,
22:09why the decisions will be announced.
22:11So, it is very important for people to know,
22:13why the decisions will be announced.
22:15The PTI lawyers argued that
22:17people are innocent.
22:19They are not from either side.
22:21So, the court said,
22:22if you both agree,
22:24then we will let the decisions be announced.
22:26So that if someone wants to be acquitted,
22:27he can be acquitted.
22:28No punishment will be given.
22:29The process of appeals will start on one side.
22:31And when the decision will be announced,
22:32then the decision will be made.
22:34This statement gives the impression,
22:36that suddenly,
22:38the decisions will be announced,
22:39because of their consent.
22:41But I think,
22:42as much as we can support the opposition,
22:44as media is our only nature,
22:46to support the opposition,
22:47the opposition should also speak the truth.
22:49But having said that,
22:51I think the decisions will be announced,
22:53and the government will be troubled.
22:55Baba, you are talking like a king.
22:57Baba, you are talking like a king.
22:59Didn't you and I,
23:01hear from a lot of responsible people,
23:03Didn't you and I,
23:05that the kind of reaction that has come,
23:07now there will be a little break,
23:09and then probably in 20 pieces of badges.
23:11That's right.
23:14I am sure you must have heard.
23:1620-25, 20-25.
23:17You must have heard.
23:19I have also heard,
23:20as we are reporters.
23:22Now,
23:24today,
23:26the committee,
23:28which has to give a mandate,
23:30and give instructions,
23:32that you have to discuss,
23:34a lot of issues with the government,
23:36and you have a lot of time,
23:38from January 31st,
23:40to January 31st,
23:43that day,
23:45suddenly,
23:47you have to give a mandate to 60 people.
23:49This,
23:51as a result of 60 people's punishment,
23:53this can also happen.
23:55The kind of temperament,
23:57of Mr. Khan,
23:59he is also a,
24:01of his own kind,
24:03so he says,
24:05why should I discuss?
24:07I was already saying that it is a fraud.
24:09Today, my 60 people,
24:11after that, you see,
24:13his conversation with the journalists,
24:15you read the written translation,
24:17and you see,
24:19there is a sixth page,
24:21where it mentions 9th May.
24:23Otherwise, it should have started from there,
24:25that on such a,
24:27okay, you could have given this spin,
24:29despite this, for the sake of our country,
24:31with a big heart,
24:33we are preparing for the negotiations.
24:35But, it should have been your lead topic.
24:37You didn't.
24:39Secondly,
24:41he gave a message,
24:43European Union,
24:45don't tell us,
24:47because in the end,
24:49you know, we know,
24:51this is a matter of bad luck.
24:53There are no values of states.
24:55They have no morals.
24:57They have interests.
24:59We are a poor country,
25:01there is no doubt,
25:03but we have to buy a lot of goods,
25:05which is very expensive,
25:07I still remember,
25:09that Sweden,
25:11because we,
25:13you remember,
25:15Musharraf had a friend,
25:17whose name was Avax,
25:19we had to buy a system for him,
25:21and you remember,
25:23European Union had to give a report,
25:25for the municipal election,
25:27and there were a lot of complaints,
25:29and Sweden refused to sign,
25:31because it was a deal.
25:33So, that's it.
25:35Now, the issue is,
25:37there is only one military trial left.
25:39Faiz Ameer, you remember,
25:41there was a press release,
25:43when he said,
25:45investigations are going on,
25:47about Faiz Ameer,
25:49there is an open FIR,
25:51you can file whatever you want.
25:53Now, after today,
25:55it is clear,
25:57that it is not on the defensive,
25:59neither the government,
26:01nor the establishment,
26:03Now, Mr. Khan's military trial,
26:05and all these things,
26:07the European Union is not standing,
26:09it is the Supreme Court's decision,
26:11which we are waiting for.
26:13After this statement,
26:15what do you think,
26:17does Mr. Khan think,
26:19that the Supreme Court,
26:21and the bench will say,
26:23that these are special circumstances,
26:25so this trial is made?
26:27If we ask you,
26:29you will say,
26:31yes,
26:33all the decisions will go to the government.
26:35Largely.
26:37So, I will not be surprised,
26:39if this decision is made on the military court.
26:41There is another line,
26:43which is very important,
26:45that Mr. Khan has been offered,
26:47to shift to Benigala.
26:49We had said this in our program,
26:51that this offer is a hack,
26:53that they will leave people in custody.
26:55Today, there has been a lot of debate on this,
26:57when the committee has gone,
26:59that you have to negotiate,
27:01go to Benigala,
27:03talk to them,
27:05and everyone knows,
27:07that there is a timeline.
27:09If the Bush administration does not do anything,
27:11Trump administration,
27:13if Trump administration does not do anything,
27:15then it will be very difficult for Mr. Tariq Khan.
27:17They know this,
27:19that this is the time to maneuver.
27:21Politically also,
27:23this is a very important time for Mr. Tariq Khan.
27:25If he does something in these 4-6 weeks,
27:27then there will be uneasiness on our side.
27:31The unpredictability of the term,
27:33will become more predictable,
27:35that on which line we are thinking.
27:37So, before a decision comes from there,
27:39it is better to make our own decisions here.
27:41At this time, the government is also not understanding,
27:43that where will it go.
27:45They also do not understand,
27:47that where will it go.
27:49If a phone call comes,
27:51if it does not come,
27:53then we will be trapped.
27:55I think,
27:57the military trial will be a little difficult.
27:59Because of Imran Khan being Imran Khan,
28:01there will be more reaction.
28:03The reaction of the West will increase,
28:05the reaction of the European Union will increase,
28:07the reaction of Britain will increase.
28:09He is Imran Khan.
28:11But the question is,
28:13we have to take a break.
28:15After the break,
28:17I will start with the point,
28:19that there is always a reaction.
28:21The question is,
28:23this will happen, that will happen,
28:25nothing has happened.
28:27Since the nuclear program was formed,
28:29160 different sanctions
28:31have been imposed on Pakistan.
28:33Small, big, nuclear program related.
28:35Pakistan had been the most sanctioned country in the world in 1999.
28:37Nuclear program is also going on.
28:39The sanctions that are imposed,
28:41they are also removed.
28:43So, this drama is going on.
28:45So, the point is,
28:47are we going that way?
28:49If in these 4-6 weeks,
28:51if things are not decided,
28:53then what will happen?
28:55Let's put it like that.
28:57Let's take a break.
28:59After the break,
29:01let's ask,
29:03if in these 4-6 weeks,
29:05either or did not happen,
29:07from both sides,
29:09then what will happen?
29:11Welcome back.
29:13Mr. Shah,
29:15Kashif said something,
29:17that was going on during the break,
29:19that there are two options,
29:21either the solution comes from the US,
29:23and they come and say,
29:25leave this and that,
29:27and the rest can go to hell.
29:29The second is the local solution.
29:31What can a local solution be?
29:33Even if they are sitting in meetings,
29:35to give to the PTI,
29:37one thing they have is peace.
29:39No protests on the streets,
29:41no protests.
29:43What can the government give?
29:45After all, these two things,
29:47Mr. Shah said,
29:49we will give relief,
29:51we won't trouble you.
29:53He himself said,
29:55I got an offer to go to Benigala,
29:57I am not giving it.
29:59The third was,
30:01early elections.
30:03Let's leave 1-1.5 years,
30:051 year has passed,
30:07let 2 years pass.
30:09What can a local solution be?
30:11A relatively early election,
30:13and for that the government
30:15is saying,
30:17you have 2024,
30:19it's too much,
30:21let's do something.
30:23You are talking about election reforms.
30:25No, no.
30:27We are in a fantasy world.
30:29We are in a fantasy world.
30:31We are saying,
30:33what can a local solution be?
30:35You said, make this.
30:37I think,
30:39through negotiations,
30:41in the current format,
30:43I don't see things
30:45going anywhere.
30:47As far as,
30:49America's pressure is concerned,
30:51you see,
30:53General Zia-ul-Haq,
30:55at one time,
30:57calling it peanuts,
30:59rejected
31:01the offer
31:03of Picard,
31:05even though you came to Pakistan.
31:07The relationship
31:09between Pakistan and America,
31:11there is a strange
31:13shift.
31:15It's a love-hate relationship.
31:17One could think,
31:19Clinton comes here
31:21and goes to India,
31:23and then 9-11 happens.
31:25It's an event-based,
31:27transactional relationship.
31:29My own fear,
31:31is that,
31:33for example,
31:35today,
31:37I spoke to
31:39a crime reporter.
31:41It's frightening.
31:43Imagine, Islamabad,
31:45Safe City, Cabaret,
31:47163 murders
31:49have taken place.
31:51432 cars
31:53have been
31:55looted.
31:57The problem is,
31:59the poverty
32:01in your country,
32:03the increase
32:05in the population,
32:07do you know
32:09what the police are saying?
32:11Why is the crime rate so high?
32:13They say,
32:15Jalsa Jaloos are held every other day.
32:17The government's
32:19strategy is
32:21to get as much time as possible.
32:23They think that
32:25on 26th November,
32:27they have shown
32:29their brute force.
32:31After that,
32:33they will think about
32:35a local solution.
32:37The same concept,
32:39as Mr. Khan said,
32:41is being played by the committee.
32:43So, even he doesn't expect results.
32:45There is one thing
32:47that can be improved.
32:49And that is,
32:51Imran Khan should give time to the government.
32:53But that will be a deal.
32:55As Mr. Imran Khan said,
32:57I won't touch you for two years.
32:59That's what I'm saying.
33:01If Mr. Imran Khan agrees,
33:03the government will bring him out.
33:05If he gives two years,
33:07it will be three years.
33:09Whatever it is,
33:11there is one thing that can be improved.
33:13That is, if the government
33:15and the system are given time.
33:17There is nothing else
33:19that one can give to the other.
33:21Let me add one more thing.
33:23If Imran Khan
33:25has to rely on American pressure,
33:27that's why a local solution is necessary.
33:29Let's say,
33:31if Imran Khan has to rely on American pressure,
33:33how will Imran Khan deal with the situation?
33:35First, let me understand
33:37that if Imran Khan
33:39has to rely on American pressure,
33:41then who will deal with the situation?
33:43Then who will deal with the situation?
33:45Then who will deal with the situation?
33:47Then who will deal with the situation?
33:49So, it is better to have a local solution.
33:51Look, there shouldn't be arrogance
33:53because you have given him time.
33:55I think that the solution will be there.
33:57That is in our power,
33:59whether it is Imran Khan,
34:01Nawaz Sharif,
34:03or Benazir Bhutto.
34:05Unfortunately, everyone has
34:07imperial arrogance and power.
34:09But what can be the local solution
34:11for all these things?
34:13What can be the deal?
34:15Look, Malik, it is a very simple thing
34:17that the government does not matter here.
34:19that the government does not matter here.
34:21The establishment matters here.
34:23The establishment matters here.
34:25Look, in the past,
34:27when governments were overthrown,
34:29then all the opposition
34:31at that time
34:33and the establishment
34:35together overthrew the government.
34:37Here, the situation is completely different.
34:39Here, the problem of local solution
34:41is that the local solution
34:43can't be given by the government.
34:45is that the local solution
34:47can't be given by the government.
34:49Man, you remember the video
34:51of Busha Bibi
34:53of Busha Bibi
34:55that she addressed directly
34:57so that there is no ambiguity.
35:01Even today, she said,
35:03I will forgive my things.
35:05No, no, I am saying
35:07that she said, I will forgive my things.
35:09She said, I will forgive everything.
35:11She said, I will forgive everything.
35:13There was a video of Busha Bibi
35:15that she said,
35:17I am addressing directly
35:19that if you may not get the message
35:21and someone said something wrong,
35:23even after that,
35:25it didn't make a difference.
35:27That's why you are asking
35:29what can be the local solution.
35:31PTI and Imran Khan
35:33gave the final call
35:35and showed their extremist position.
35:37and showed their extremist position.
35:39Now the problem is that
35:41the answer is coming from the other side.
35:43The answer is the punishment of 25 people,
35:45the punishment of 60 people,
35:47Imran Khan's trial.
35:49Now the answer is coming from the other side.
35:51There is no government in the middle.
35:53Rest assured,
35:55that the issue of government,
35:57which Khawaja Asif is saying,
35:59or Talal Chaudhry is saying,
36:01or Shahbaz Sharif is saying,
36:03it doesn't matter at all.
36:05The issue is that the government
36:07is standing on the basis of establishment.
36:09And here on the other side
36:11there is a team
36:13which is completely
36:15different from our traditional politics.
36:17Who says that
36:19this is not a government
36:21and you can have a conversation
36:23and do whatever you want.
36:25So the local solution
36:27is rest with the establishment.
36:29No, but still
36:31it has to be put in a political
36:33wrapping paper.
36:35Sir, do you think
36:37the government can talk
36:39without taking approval from them?
36:41In my program, Rana Sanwala
36:43said that if you get a shot
36:45then remove it.
36:47He said that all the negotiations
36:49whether pre or post,
36:51there will be approval.
36:53He used the word pre and post.
36:55It cannot happen without approval.
36:57The establishment cannot directly negotiate.
36:59It's a sign of weakness.
37:01They don't want to show their weakness
37:03for whatever reason.
37:05They want to camouflage
37:07till 20th January.
37:09When I say the government should work,
37:11it's not a demand of the government.
37:13It's a demand from all sides
37:15and we will see.
37:17This has to be settled.
37:19If it doesn't get settled,
37:21then...
37:23He said that we are negotiating
37:25with the establishment
37:27indirectly.
37:29It is possible
37:31with the approval of the establishment.
37:33The real negotiation is not
37:35what is happening here.
37:37The question is not
37:39who is doing what.
37:41The real negotiation is behind the scenes.
37:43They met separately.
37:45Yes, they met separately.
37:47When they met,
37:49they hugged Mohsin Naqvi
37:51and kissed him.
37:53He didn't know that
37:55on 26th November,
37:57Mohsin Naqvi was firing.
37:59Something is going on there also.
38:05This is the real issue.
38:07The problem is that
38:09Ayaz Sadiq is sitting
38:11and negotiating.
38:13This is not a negotiation.
38:15In my opinion, this is not a negotiation.
38:17One second.
38:19When Nawaz Sharif's marriage
38:21took place, there were guarantors
38:23and undertakers.
38:25Hariri's ship came,
38:27Saudi Arabia undertook everything.
38:29The real issue here is
38:31who is the guarantor.
38:33Is there a guarantor
38:35at the domestic or international level
38:37who will keep both sides
38:39of the issue?
38:41No one is ready to be a guarantor.
38:43Khan Sahib is a whimsical man.
38:45He has mood swings.
38:51Who will guarantee
38:53when he has mood swings?
38:55When we compare him
38:57with Nawaz Sharif,
38:59there is a long history behind him.
39:01Kargil comes.
39:03He is a very pragmatic man.
39:05He took over the government.
39:07He took over the government.
39:09After that, he is struggling.
39:11I don't think he will
39:13continue to play football.
39:15He will be a smarter man today.
39:17He will be a different man.
39:19I am sure he is a different man.
39:21Even after going to jail,
39:23if he doesn't learn
39:25and he has been betrayed so much.
39:27I will tell you one thing.
39:29Kashif may disagree
39:31with me very much.
39:33The meetings with Ali Amin
39:35in Shanghai
39:37are humiliating for him.
39:41I will not be surprised
39:43if
39:45at the end of January,
39:47instead of Ali Amin
39:49on behalf of Tariq-e-Insaf,
39:51someone else
39:53becomes the Prime Minister.
39:55But Kashif,
39:57I agree that
39:59Bushra Bibi is also upset.
40:01But,
40:03if Imran Khan is inside,
40:05can I say something on this?
40:07Yes.
40:09From what I have heard today,
40:11Gandhapur
40:13has lodged a complaint
40:15in front of Imran Khan.
40:17In the last meeting,
40:19he asked him not to take pictures.
40:21He said,
40:23look what is happening
40:25with me on social media.
40:27I am trying to get you out.
40:29Then Hamid Raza later said
40:31I did not do anything.
40:33What did I do?
40:35The party's insiders
40:37are saying that
40:39Gandhapur has a role.
40:41My next question
40:43is that if Imran Khan is inside
40:45and he knows
40:47that in this country,
40:49behind the scenes,
40:51we have to talk.
40:53He also needs a person like Gandhapur
40:55who has a legal reason
40:57to meet the establishment.
40:59He is the best
41:01person to meet the establishment.
41:03He is the best person to meet the establishment.
41:05He is the best person to meet the establishment.
41:07He is the only person
41:09who can charge a mob.
41:11He is not easily replaceable.
41:13He is not easily replaceable.
41:15You also said something
41:17about Bushra Bibi.
41:19He is taking a break.
41:21Let him speak.
41:23You said that he sent a message
41:25that there is no need to be afraid.
41:27Would he have gone without
41:29Imran Khan's permission?
41:31No, he would not have gone.
41:33He would have gone with Imran Khan's permission.
41:35A very important leader told me
41:37that whatever Imran Khan said,
41:39he would be against the army.
41:41He said this principally.
41:43He said that he would like to
41:45come on TV and tell
41:47what Imran Khan said.
41:49He has not burnt his boats.
41:51The message was
41:53correct.
41:55A few days ago,
41:57he was asked to resign.
41:59He was asked to resign.
42:01He agreed to everything.
42:03He agreed to everything.
42:05He was arrogant.
42:07He was arrogant.
42:09He said that he will not
42:11give up until he is determined.
42:13Let's take a break.
42:15You need Gandapus of the world
42:17to make the wheels move.
42:19If someone has opened a path,
42:21it is a political party.
42:23Let's take a break.
42:53I think
42:55the arrogance
42:57that we are talking about
42:59and the word
43:01that we have been using
43:03since yesterday,
43:05is it a mastermind?
43:07I think if we want to forgive,
43:09we should get a severe punishment.
43:11Do you think there will be a deal
43:13after the punishment?
43:15No, not before that.
43:17There will not be a deal
43:19because Imran Khan
43:21can give something to the government.
43:23Imran Khan has said
43:25that if there is a deal,
43:27there will be no difference
43:29between him and Shabaz Sharif.
43:31He is also aware that
43:33it is a matter of time.
43:35Mr. Khan, whatever they do,
43:37people will support them.
43:39I don't agree with you.
43:41You don't agree?
43:43Do you remember when his men
43:45went to Sindh House?
43:47I am talking about the voters.
43:49I am not talking about the parliamentarians.
43:55But they are also not fighting
43:57the electables.
43:59Who won Punjab in 2018?
44:01PML.
44:03They don't deal.
44:05They have left their board bank.
44:07Short of American involvement,
44:09will there be a local deal or not?
44:11Mr. Shah says there will be
44:13after the punishment.
44:15Sir, any deal,
44:17we all understand
44:19Imran's personality.
44:21He has nothing to lose.
44:25If he is punished,
44:27he has nothing to lose.
44:29If you shift him to Bani Gala,
44:31he has nothing to lose.
44:33He has been in jail for two years.
44:35What else?
44:37That's what I am saying.
44:39Why would he do this?
44:41The program is over.
44:43Sometimes I say,
44:45you win simply by not losing.
44:47Now we will see
44:49who is winning and who is not losing.
44:51Allah Hafiz.