Dos diplomáticos rusos se negaron a someterse a un control de alcoholemia en la Avenida Libertador, Buenos Aires. El incidente, que duró varias horas, terminó con los funcionarios escoltados por la policía hasta la embajada rusa. La situación plantea interrogantes sobre la interpretación de la Convención de Viena y su aplicación en casos como este.
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00:00Second, the door of the Russian Federation's embassy,
00:03Rodriguez Peña Street, 1700.
00:05This is where the vehicle arrived.
00:08It's still inside the car with a diplomatic license.
00:11Let's review.
00:12This happened on the embankment of an alcohol control,
00:14on Libertador Avenue, Callao corner.
00:16The person on board of this vehicle with a diplomatic license
00:19refused to be subject to alcohol control.
00:22And finally, an hour and a half later,
00:25it was decided, with the custody of the city police,
00:29and now the presence of the Federal Police,
00:31which is the one that is intervening in this case,
00:33to move to the vicinity.
00:35We are practically at the door of the Russian embassy.
00:38The flag is flaming.
00:39No, it's not really flaming,
00:40but the Russian flag is on the first floor of this building.
00:45But the man remains inside the vehicle,
00:48cell phone in hand.
00:50He has not yet been subjected to alcohol control.
00:52They said, from the transit of the city of Buenos Aires,
00:55that what was resolved was to custody him
00:58until the door of the embassy,
01:00and that here, presumably,
01:02he was going to be subject to alcohol control,
01:04with the alimeter to determine if he had alcohol in his blood,
01:07and then the alcoholimeter.
01:08In fact, there are people in transit here too,
01:10who are with all the elements to be subjected to control.
01:13In principle, in the 15 minutes he has been here,
01:16he has not lowered the window,
01:20he has not been subjected to control.
01:22So now we'll see how it works.
01:24If they actually do it or not.
01:27But first of all, this step was taken,
01:30which is the transfer from the place where the alcohol controls were inspected,
01:35we repeat, Libertador Esquina Callao,
01:38to the door of the headquarters of the Russian embassy,
01:42with staff, first of all, of the city police.
01:45They have cut traffic.
01:47In Rodríguez Peña, Esquina Aguido,
01:50there are two patrol cars that are crossed on Rodríguez Peña Street.
01:54Observe what has motivated this.
01:56There are staff also from the Argentine Federal Police.
01:59There is a division that deals with these cases
02:01when diplomatic personnel are involved.
02:05The Vienna Convention is also the one that has,
02:08in some way, articulated to see how to act in a case like this.
02:12It is presumed that the interior of the vehicle is also Russian territory,
02:16but it is inside the car.
02:17He has not yet lowered the window,
02:19the corresponding alcohol control has not yet been carried out,
02:21which was supposedly going to be submitted.
02:24And now it is expecting to know how to act.
02:26He has lowered the window of the passenger car a little bit,
02:29nothing more, but no more than that.
02:32We see two officials, we presume from the Russian embassy,
02:35who were the ones who were the earliest with the police personnel,
02:38both local from the city of Buenos Aires and from the Federal Police,
02:42to determine how to act and how to act.
02:44Few blocks separate us from the place where the control was carried out,
02:48about 15 blocks, just up to here.
02:50And now, well, we expect to know how to act.
02:53Will the alcohol control be submitted? Yes or no? Yes.
02:57Look, a situation is taking place just like the one you experienced three hours ago,
03:01there on Libertador Avenue.
03:02Also a Russian self-diplomat, identical to the patent,
03:06who arrives, presents the papers in this case,
03:09has a good deal with the people in transit,
03:11has a small conversation, but when it comes to having to do the test,
03:14he refuses.
03:15He refuses.
03:16Now there is...
03:17And the hypothesis...
03:18They are asking for the collaboration of the city police now,
03:21to repeat the protocol again.
03:22The hypothesis of Winokur is that they send the Russians to set a precedent
03:25for everyone to refuse and start a debate about Russian sovereignty.
03:30Exactly.
03:31Now, now...
03:32Are you serious, Pablo?
03:33I'm absolutely serious.
03:35I want to make this clear.
03:37It's not that there is an after, a party of Russians...
03:39No, I want to make this clear.
03:40They all become drunk, right?
03:41What you just said, that I said it, is my speculation.
03:44I'm going now with information.
03:45Good.
03:46People close to the Russian diplomatic world.
03:50The idea is not to generate a negative precedent about diplomatic immunity.
03:56The idea is not to generate, repeat it, let's see.
03:58Not to generate a negative precedent about diplomatic immunity.
04:03They cannot detain a diplomat.
04:06This is people close to the Russian diplomatic world.
04:11Let's see.
04:12You know that in matters of judicial issues,
04:17interpretation always comes first.
04:20That's why.
04:21And jurisprudence.
04:22And jurisprudence.
04:23And jurisprudence.
04:24Of course.
04:25At the moment...
04:26You can read a normative text and you give it an interpretation.
04:29Of course, there is...
04:30That's why jurisprudence is very important.
04:32I insist.
04:33I insist.
04:34I insist.
04:35When you read the article, which Cristian and I have been reviewing,
04:40Article 22 of the Vienna Convention, which Argentina adhered to,
04:45if I'm not mistaken, at the beginning of the 70s.
04:48I'm going to review that.
04:49I'm going to check it.
04:50The means of transport.
04:53Article 22, incision 3.
04:56Then give it the interpretation you want.
04:58But the Vienna Convention is very clear about diplomatic relations.
05:03The means of transport of the diplomatic mission
05:07cannot be subject to any registration, requirement, embargo or measure of execution.
05:14Are you talking about alcohol control?
05:16Wait.
05:17You didn't say a word.
05:18I think that alcohol control, if we look for and make the interpretation of this administrative measure,
05:24which is alcohol control,
05:27against a treaty, an international convention,
05:32that's where the interpretation will clash.
05:35I believe that, in effect, alcohol control is a registration of the person,
05:41in this case the diplomat,
05:44who comes in a vehicle that has diplomatic immunity.
05:50So, if citizen X, no matter if he's Russian,
05:54refuses, the administrative procedure assumes that he's drunk.
06:01I mean, it assumes positive, if he refuses.
06:04So, if he assumes positive,
06:06immediately they have to kidnap the vehicle,
06:09which, without a doubt,
06:11I mean, there's no doubt,
06:12it's a requirement,
06:14it's a transitory embargo of the vehicle.
06:18So, the Russian citizen knows this.
06:20If he's drunk or not, at this point it's practically a minor detail.
06:24He refused to do the control,
06:26so the control assumes positive,
06:28so the local authority,
06:30the city police,
06:32the transit control,
06:33should confiscate the vehicle and take it away.
06:35They can't do it.
06:36Cristian, what does the citizen have there?
06:42Let's see, two and a half hours have passed,
06:45of this whole situation,
06:46which started today at noon,
06:49when this person,
06:51on board a vehicle with a diplomatic license plate,
06:54belonging to the Russian Federation,
06:56refused to undergo an alcohol control.
06:58From there,
07:00he stayed inside the vehicle for an hour and a half.
07:03More diplomats arrived,
07:05people from the Federal Police.
07:07Finally, they decided to guard him
07:09until the door of the Russian Federation's embassy,
07:13here on Rodríguez Peña Street.
07:15Rodríguez Peña Avenue continues to be cut off,
07:17with patrols crossing over this artery
07:21in the city of Buenos Aires.
07:23And now we have to wait,
07:25because everyone was bragging
07:27that they were going to undergo an alcohol control,
07:30according to the transit staff.
07:31In fact, they are here with the corresponding team,
07:34with the halometer,
07:35to see if they have alcohol in their blood.
07:37But for the moment,
07:38they don't get out of the vehicle,
07:39they don't get out of the window.
07:41The situation is very similar to the one we saw
07:43at the control station,
07:44in Libertador y Callao.
07:45And the expectation,
07:46the expectation to decide how to act,
07:48the transit staff also
07:50was part of this caravan of 15 blocks,
07:53also just waiting to see
07:55if they will carry out the control in this area,
07:59which is the door of the Russian Federation's embassy.
08:02So, well, it's a minute by minute
08:04to know the outcome
08:06and to see what precedent,
08:07as you said,
08:08will remain.
08:09This will set a precedent,
08:11there are no antecedents of this characteristic,
08:13that an official of an embassy,
08:15let's be presumptuous, an official...
08:17There you can see it perfectly, Cristian.
08:18A very good image.
08:19...does not want to submit to alcoholism control.
08:21There it is, the image of the driver.
08:22Cris, a very good image.
08:23Who are you?
08:24Who is your camera?
08:26We are Ernesto Chazarreta.
08:28Well.
08:29Our cameraman.
08:30A greeting to Ernesto,
08:31congratulations also to him.
08:32With that image.
08:33Attention to this fact,
08:34because we are being told by police sources
08:37that the case of the new Russian
08:40delayed in alcoholism control
08:43is being solved in the same way.
08:45This antecedent that gave Mercedes,
08:47the Russian is also being escorted,
08:50with which you will see it in a minute, Cristian.
08:52It goes to the same place.
08:53They are waiting for the participation
08:55of the city police,
08:56because this is the protocol.
08:58First, traffic intervenes,
09:00they have contact with this man,
09:03they accept the documentation,
09:05in the face of the negative of doing the test,
09:07they put him aside,
09:08he raised the window,
09:10he locked himself in the car,
09:12he is making phone calls,
09:14and at the same time,
09:15the traffic officer does the same.
09:17What is he asking?
09:18That the city police return,
09:20that the participation return,
09:22and then, finally, with his intervention,
09:25do the same thing they did a while ago
09:27with the first of the vehicles,
09:29which is to accompany him to the embassy.
09:32But it starts,
09:33that protocol is reset,
09:35and exactly the same thing is happening.
09:37Second sequence.
09:38As soon as the first vehicle arrived at the embassy,
09:41Cristian, the second,
09:43approached the operative there,
09:46of the traffic control on Libertador Avenue.
09:49Very striking,
09:51everything that is happening.
09:53He even had a brief conversation
09:55with some colleagues there,
09:57of the press,
09:58who were in the operative.
09:59He said he did not know the situation
10:01that had happened
10:03with the first diplomatic vehicle.
10:05He presented the documentation,
10:07he identified himself,
10:08he is the first secretary of the Russian embassy,
10:11and then he refused to do that alcohol test.
10:15That's why he's still now
10:17isolated in that control,
10:18and we'll see how long it takes.
10:20Let's see, in the first case,
10:22it was resolved for two and a half hours,
10:24almost three,
10:25finally being escorted and arriving at the embassy.
10:28We'll see if now it is resolved a little faster,
10:30and obviously it will follow the same course.
10:32Facu, this is like this.
10:34It goes in that direction.
10:35It draws a lot of attention.
10:37When they asked him,
10:38but did you know there was a control here?
10:40No, I did not know, I followed my GPS,
10:42said the second of the diplomats
10:44to arrive at that control.
10:46Let's see, Cris,
10:47more in the place, live,
10:48already with the mobile,
10:49it gives 24 doors of the Russian embassy.
10:52Some doors open,
10:54some guards come out,
10:56there was legal assistance staff,
10:58but the first Russian
11:00who refuses the control
11:02is still in there.
11:05Exactly, the first is inside the vehicle.
11:08It's been almost three hours
11:10since he refused,
11:11and we are waiting for the second to arrive.
11:13Also, as Mercedes explains well,
11:15he also refused the alcohol control
11:17minutes ago of this episode,
11:18in the same control of Libertador and Callao,
11:20also with a Russian embassy official
11:22who also refuses the control.
11:24Very strange everything,
11:25very curious what is happening here.
11:27Two officials,
11:28we presume from the Russian embassy,
11:29who refuse alcohol control
11:30in two different vehicles.
11:32One is already here,
11:33in front of the embassy headquarters,
11:35the other is still in the alcohol control,
11:36but they would also guard it.
11:38And look at what is happening,
11:39I mean, look at the amount of cash
11:41from the city police,
11:42the federal police,
11:43also intervenes the office of the Ministry of Justice.
11:47The Argentine federal police
11:49is also in charge now
11:51of trying to solve this situation.
11:53The traffic officer,
11:54who also joined the caravan
11:56with the intention of
11:57carrying out the alcohol control,
11:59but here at the embassy headquarters,
12:01at the door of the embassy headquarters.
12:03And of course,
12:04as Mercedes explains well,
12:05this second episode
12:06happened simultaneously
12:07with another official
12:08in another vehicle
12:09with a diplomatic patent plate
12:10that begins with D.
12:11There the door of the embassy opens,
12:13there the door opens,
12:14this man comes out,
12:15who was one of those who was
12:16talking to the police personnel,
12:18trying to see how to
12:19solve this conflict,
12:20this situation that is strange,
12:22unpublished.
12:23It is worth remembering,
12:25here somewhere,
12:26Winokur helps me,
12:27Cristian, to remember
12:30that not many months ago
12:33the story was made known,
12:35an incredible story,
12:36of two Russian spies
12:38who lived many years
12:40in Argentina,
12:41who had their children
12:42in Argentina,
12:43who then left
12:45and were discovered
12:46in another country.
12:48And recently they were received
12:50as heroes by the Kremlin.
12:52Putin himself
12:53went to the door,
12:54to the ladder of the plane
12:58to receive them.
12:59They set up in Argentina
13:01a false life
13:02with other names,
13:04they educated their family
13:06as Catholic Hispanics,
13:07they spoke only in Spanish
13:10and just on board
13:13the plane
13:14that took them to Moscow,
13:16part of this story
13:17began to be revealed.
13:19I mean the story
13:20of Ayrton Dulcep
13:21and Ana Dulceva,
13:23who are the two citizens
13:24who for years
13:25lived here in Argentina,
13:28they arrived from Argentina,
13:31they went to Slovenia
13:33and in Slovenia
13:34they were investigated,
13:36they went,
13:37and it was presumed
13:38that they were spies,
13:39they were arrested,
13:41they were found
13:42the real documentation
13:45of Argentina
13:47and there they began
13:48to understand
13:49that there was
13:50a very deep story
13:51behind all
13:53that family history.
13:55They arrived in Slovenia
13:56in 2017
13:57with Argentine passports,
13:58they lived in a place
13:59called Ljubljana
14:01with their children
14:02under the names
14:03of Ludwig Gitsch
14:05and María Rosa Mayer Muñoz,
14:07they claimed to be
14:08linked to art
14:10and they had, I repeat,
14:11set up a false life
14:14in Argentina
14:16and from that story
14:18they began to wonder
14:20how many,
14:21how many Russian spies
14:23there are in Argentina.