For the first episode in our three-part miniseries on the future of music, we tell the story of Track Star, a music game show that has become a viral hit on TikTok and Instagram. Jack Coyne, the show's friendly host, tells us how Track Star came to be, why the format works so well, and why A-list celebrities like Olivia Rodrigo, Ed Sheeran, and Kamala Harris are all clamoring to be on the show. Coyne also tells us where Track Star might go next — and why the future of music content might look a lot like the past.
Category
🤖
TechTranscript
00:00Welcome to the Vergecast, the flagship podcast of low-stakes game shows.
00:04I'm your friend David Pierce, and I finally have perfected my Nintendo Switch setup.
00:10So, I mentioned on this show a while back that I needed a new game console,
00:15mostly because there's a bunch of new games coming out that didn't support my PS4.
00:19I wanted something new.
00:20The team almost convinced me to buy a Steam Deck,
00:24but then they were like, oh, it doesn't play the only game that you care about,
00:27which is EAFC, which used to be called FIFA.
00:30So that didn't work.
00:31So, I did a bunch of research and a bunch of trying stuff,
00:34and eventually landed on just buying EAFC 25
00:37and trying to run it on my unbelievably old and kind of busted Nintendo Switch.
00:43It's not great.
00:44Game's a little laggy, jumps a lot.
00:46Every time you want to, like, move down a menu,
00:49it takes a full second to think about it.
00:51But it works.
00:52I have the game.
00:53Game's downloaded.
00:54It's all going fine.
00:55So, of course, as I am wont to do, I then got very obsessed with the setup.
00:59I bought a new controller from this company called PowerA,
01:03which looks cool, but I hate it, so I'm already in the market for another controller.
01:07I bought an adapter so that I can connect the Switch to my iPad
01:12and use it as a bigger screen when I'm on the road.
01:15I bought a thing to connect it to my TV.
01:17I bought a thing to connect it to my computer monitor.
01:20I've done way too much work to make this all work,
01:22but now I've gotten to the point where basically anywhere I am at any time
01:26with zero setup, I can play EAFC 25 on my Nintendo Switch.
01:33It's the dream.
01:34The game doesn't work very well, but it works.
01:36I have it, and at least for now, that is enough.
01:39Also, Nintendo, please release the Switch 2 because my setup is now perfect.
01:43All I need is a better console.
01:45Let's do this.
01:46All right.
01:47We're not here to talk about the Switch.
01:48We are here to do the first episode in our new three-part miniseries
01:52all about the future of music.
01:54We've done episodes on this topic before,
01:56and it's just something we really like talking about.
01:59And it turns out music actually hits a lot of the stuff we care about most
02:03on The Verge cast.
02:04It's about creators.
02:05It's about policy.
02:07It's about AI.
02:08It's about infrastructure.
02:09It's about what it means to be a person in the world.
02:13Music just covers everything,
02:15and so it's really fun to find new ways to talk about music.
02:18Today on the show, I'm talking to a guy named Jack Coyne,
02:20who is a creator.
02:22He's on TikTok.
02:23You've probably seen his show, and you may not even have realized it.
02:27Super fun conversation.
02:28I really enjoyed talking to Jack.
02:30I learned a ton.
02:31We're going to get into it.
02:32But first, I'm almost done with this game.
02:35There's this new mode called Rush.
02:37Every game is like seven minutes long.
02:38I'm just going to finish that, and then we'll get into it.
02:41This is The Verge cast.
02:44Support for The Verge cast is brought to you by Nissan Kicks.
02:47Hey, the Nissan Kicks has undergone a complete transformation,
02:51emerging as the city-sized crossover redefined for urban adventures.
02:55With a striking new exterior and a fully revamped interior boasting premium features,
03:00the Kicks experience has been totally enhanced to help you better navigate city life.
03:05And the reimagined Nissan Kicks is outfitted with intelligent all-wheel drive,
03:09so you can keep going, rain or shine.
03:11Learn more at www.nissanusa.com
03:15slash 2025-Kicks.
03:18Intelligent all-wheel drive cannot prevent collisions or provide enhanced traction in all conditions.
03:23Always monitor traffic and weather conditions.
03:27Welcome back.
03:28I'm so, so sorry to do this, especially right at the beginning.
03:32But I have to tell you a back-in-my-day story just really quick.
03:37So, back in my day, back when I was a kid, way back in the ancient history
03:42that was the 1990s and early 2000s, MTV was the biggest thing in music.
04:01I probably don't have to explain the idea of television to most of you,
04:05but just in case, MTV was a TV channel that for hours and hours a day
04:10would just play shows about music.
04:13Sometimes it would just play music videos, back-to-back, one after another, for hours at a time.
04:18And you really cannot overstate how big a deal, culturally, MTV was.
04:24In particular, it felt at the time like Carson Daly and TRL, Total Request Live,
04:29were the most important brands in the music business.
04:33I'm sure there are people who will say otherwise, but that's how it felt to me at the time.
04:37I just went back and found a bunch of old TRL episodes,
04:41which you can find a surprising number of just by searching around on YouTube.
04:45And I kept noticing that what I remembered about TRL and what TRL actually was
04:51are two really different things.
04:53I remember TRL as the music video countdown.
04:56They would do a top ten, usually, over the course of an entire episode.
04:59And it was a big deal for artists to get in that top ten.
05:02They would come on and be congratulated for moving up a spot.
05:06But most of these episodes that I'm seeing is just artists hanging out and talking about music.
05:12They're sitting on couches or stools or just standing in the crowd, just kind of hanging out.
05:18Some artists would bring their favorite music videos to talk about.
05:21Sometimes they would guest host and talk about all the most popular videos.
05:25Sometimes it had nothing to do with music at all.
05:28And winds up feeling like, why on earth is this a TRL episode?
05:32Here's one good example.
05:34I found an episode from 2001 where Jessica Simpson,
05:37who at that time was like at the peak of her powers,
05:39is talking about her new music.
05:41And she takes a quiz during another music video about other music and TRL.
05:47I'm here with Jessica Simpson.
05:49Jess, how are you on your TRL trivia?
05:51You've seen the show before.
05:52I have seen the show before.
05:54I hope I'm good.
05:55I'm not really good at this kind of thing, but all of them are.
05:57Yeah, we've put you with your fans.
05:59She'll be able to confer with her fans.
06:01We'll give you five questions.
06:02And here are your five questions.
06:04Question number one is, what was the first NSYNC video to go to number one?
06:07Something about that clip just screams 2001 to me.
06:11I don't know why.
06:12Just everything about it.
06:13This is like a crazy blast from the past.
06:15Anyway, I've been thinking a lot about TRL and MTV recently.
06:19And really the whole idea of how we discover and get to know new music.
06:25Obviously, the whole music universe is different than it was 20 years ago.
06:29And in so many ways, we're actually much closer to artists than we've ever been.
06:34Every time an artist has an album coming out now,
06:37you suddenly see them on a million podcasts.
06:40Or they're doing some hour-long interview with Zane Lowe for Apple Music
06:44where they walk around London.
06:46Or they're doing cover songs on an Australian radio station's YouTube channel.
06:50Like Aversion, by the way, one of the great things on the internet.
06:53There's more music content than ever.
06:56And we actually get more chances to see and hear from our favorite musicians than ever.
07:01A lot of the most followed people on Instagram are musicians.
07:05All of that together is why it's so interesting and almost strange to me
07:10that this little TikTok show has worked as well as it has.
07:14Welcome to the show.
07:15Hello.
07:16Hey.
07:17Hey.
07:18If you can name the artist, you win five bucks.
07:19It's the Beatles.
07:20The Beatles.
07:21The show is called Trackstar, and it's all over the place on TikTok and Instagram.
07:25In case you've never seen it, it goes more or less like this.
07:29Jack Coyne, the host, who's the voice you just heard, meets somebody on the street.
07:32Sometimes it's a totally random person just happening to walk by.
07:36Sometimes it's an A-plus list musician.
07:38Sometimes it's something kind of right in between.
07:41And he hands them a microphone and a pair of headphones.
07:44Jack then plays a song through the headphones,
07:46and if the person can guess the artist of that song, they win five bucks.
07:50If they get it right, they get to try again for ten bucks,
07:53or keep the five bucks and walk away.
07:55The number keeps doubling until they get it wrong or walk away,
07:58and then it ends.
08:00It's a super simple premise, and it really works.
08:03Trackstar is only a couple of years old,
08:05but it has 400,000 followers on TikTok,
08:07another 340,000 on Instagram,
08:10and is continuing to grow really fast.
08:13But more than just the numbers,
08:14it's the guests that Jack gets on this show that blow my mind.
08:18Just to scroll through some of the most recent ones,
08:20Keith Urban is on here,
08:22Julia Louis-Dreyfus is here,
08:23Joe Jonas,
08:24Kamala Harris,
08:26Cher,
08:27Dan Reynolds, the lead singer of Imagine Dragons,
08:29Ed Sheeran,
08:30Olivia Rodrigo,
08:31Nelly Furtado is here.
08:32Okay, sorry, you get the idea.
08:34But these are A-listers.
08:35These are big-name people,
08:37and they're just rolling up to listen to Jack Coyne's playlists.
08:41I needed to know why this show has worked,
08:44so I called up Jack at his office in Manhattan.
08:46My full name's Jack Coyne,
08:48and you can call me Content Creator.
08:50Quick Jack backstory.
08:51He got started as a creator way back in the day
08:54when he started working for Casey Neistat,
08:56who is probably still your favorite YouTuber's favorite YouTuber.
09:00He was an assistant, an office manager, a producer,
09:03eventually made videos for Casey's app, Beam,
09:06and basically cut his teeth both as a content creator
09:09and, more specifically,
09:10as a content creator on the streets of New York City.
09:13I worked on his very first YouTube video ever with him,
09:16and his thing was just there's a million stories out there,
09:19especially in New York City.
09:20If you look outside, you'll trip and fall into a story.
09:23And so that attitude was really ingrained in me
09:26from the time I was 18 years old.
09:28Jack, by the way, calls himself a music guy,
09:31but only in the way that everyone who likes music is a music guy.
09:34He liked classic rock and pop music and just liked music.
09:37He definitely did not set out to be known
09:40for making music-related stuff.
09:42But a few years ago,
09:43he was working with brands on social media content,
09:46and he started a company with his brother and a friend,
09:49who were both doing the same kind of thing,
09:51to see if they could all just do it more efficiently together.
09:55We said if we put our clients together
09:58and we all help each other with our videos,
10:00we'll have extra time on the side
10:01to come up with our own original shows and ideas.
10:04I had previously had a YouTube channel.
10:06I'd worked with YouTube creators before,
10:10and I just sensed that there was this huge opportunity
10:12in the moment to do something with short-form video,
10:14both on TikTok, Instagram, and of course on YouTube.
10:18And so we kind of carved out extra time for ourselves
10:21and resources from doing the brand work
10:23to be able to create public opinion.
10:25What was the thing you wanted to do first,
10:28when you were like,
10:29okay, we're going to have this spare time
10:31to make something we want to make?
10:33Did you have an initial sense of what that thing was?
10:36Well, so the reason we called the company Public Opinion
10:39was because it was about talking to people.
10:41That was like a shorthand way of saying talking to people.
10:45And the reason that we wanted to talk to people
10:47is we recognized that this man-on-the-street type content
10:50was increasing in popularity,
10:52but we felt like no one was doing it great.
10:55It was a lot of like gotcha, sort of making fun of people.
10:59Let's catch someone in an awkward or funny moment
11:01and make them look stupid.
11:03I've always felt like half the internet
11:04was just people doing Billy-on-the-street impressions.
11:07Yeah, exactly.
11:08And we felt maybe there's a way to do this
11:10that's like nicer and more positive,
11:13and maybe we can try and make people a little bit smarter
11:17with the stuff we were doing.
11:18So we were asking trivia questions about New York City
11:20and trying to educate people about New York City.
11:22That's where we got started.
11:24Okay. Was that like a civic-minded thing,
11:27or was it just fun and you thought New York was cool
11:30and that was a good way to do it?
11:32It's a personal interest thing.
11:33It's something that I've always been interested in,
11:36curious about, and I think it was like,
11:38okay, guys, we got to go shoot.
11:39We looked out the window and like, what's that building?
11:41Oh, maybe there's something interesting about that building.
11:43We can talk to people about it.
11:45And that was the entry point.
11:46Okay.
11:47It was just like the obvious thing
11:48because we were here in New York, and I love it here.
11:52The Public Opinion Channel is very much alive
11:54and super fun too, by the way,
11:56and it works just the way you think.
11:58Since it's obviously currently election season,
12:00Jack has been mostly running around
12:02asking people trivia questions about New York City
12:05and U.S. presidents and how the two kind of collide.
12:08Which president has a parkway named after him?
12:11You're driving.
12:12Yeah, yeah, yeah.
12:13Where are you driving?
12:14I think the FDR, man.
12:15Yes. Two more questions.
12:16But the problem they ran into early on
12:18was that most people in New York
12:20don't actually know that much about New York.
12:23New York's whole thing, its whole appeal
12:25is that people come from everywhere.
12:27It's a super transient town.
12:29That's what makes it so exciting.
12:31But I mean, your trivia game show isn't very fun
12:34if nobody knows any of the answers, right?
12:37I would say maybe our hit rate was 2 out of 10.
12:39People who actually knew something about New York
12:41that besides just,
12:42oh, I don't really know the answer to that question.
12:44That's not interesting content.
12:45And so it was like,
12:46our second show has to be something
12:47that's much more universal
12:48and something that everybody can talk about
12:50because, like I said, public opinion,
12:52what's something that is going to cast a wider net?
12:55Music was the obvious answer.
12:58And we found right away,
12:59the hit rate of just getting people
13:01to engage with us was higher
13:03and their reactions and the stories
13:04that came out of talking to songs
13:06was really exciting.
13:08Why was music the obvious answer?
13:10I could imagine, especially as a New Yorker,
13:13a dozen things you might land on before music.
13:16You're like, let's do Yankees trivia
13:18or let's talk about famous New Yorkers or whatever.
13:22There's a lot of places you could go
13:24other than music.
13:25Why did you land on music?
13:26We definitely thought about doing sports stuff
13:29and continue to think about doing sports stuff
13:31because we have a little Tangentially
13:32and it's super fun
13:33and people are so passionate about that
13:35and a few other things.
13:36But I think simultaneously,
13:38we recognized that there was a lot of music conversation
13:41happening on the platforms
13:43and TikTok is a music-driven platform.
13:47The reason a lot of videos take off
13:50is the sounds that are attached to them.
13:52So we were like,
13:53let's just get into the sound and music business
13:55because that's where the platform is driving people.
13:58And we pretty quickly realized
13:59that there's a lot of interest from record labels,
14:02from musicians, from music management, PR,
14:05to attach themselves to something
14:06that's making waves in music on social media.
14:09This makes perfect sense to me.
14:11TikTok is many things,
14:13but it is mostly a music platform.
14:15And remember, just to reset the timeline here,
14:18this is like 2022, early 2023.
14:21As everyone is going outside again post-pandemic
14:24and as TikTok is still growing
14:26at an absolutely outrageous, unprecedented rate,
14:30TrackStar got 100,000 followers
14:32in its first month of existence,
14:34which is wild.
14:35They basically started posting videos
14:36and it took off immediately.
14:38And he's right.
14:39It's definitely true
14:40that music is as universal as anything out there.
14:43But what do you think the odds are,
14:44just as a thought experiment,
14:45that if you just walked up to some random person
14:48and handed them your headphones,
14:49that they would know the song
14:51you were currently listening to?
14:53I feel like pretty low, right?
14:55Just for fun.
14:56Here's the top five songs
14:57in the United States right now
14:59as I'm recording this,
15:00according to Billboard.
15:01Love Somebody by Morgan Wallen,
15:03brand new, don't think I've heard it,
15:04but I think I could probably pick out Morgan Wallen.
15:06A Bar Song by Shaboozie,
15:08that one I've got,
15:09that's been everywhere for months.
15:10Birds of a Feather by Billie Eilish,
15:12maybe?
15:13I think I could guess a Billie Eilish song,
15:15but I can't hear that one in my head right now.
15:17And there's like a whole genre of people
15:18who kind of just sound like Billie Eilish.
15:20So I don't know about that one.
15:22Die With a Smile by Lady Gaga and Bruno Mars.
15:25I actually love both those artists
15:26and have literally never heard of that song
15:28until right this second.
15:29And Espresso by Sabrina Carpenter.
15:31Obviously, yes, everybody knows Espresso.
15:34Even if you don't think you know Espresso,
15:36you know Espresso.
15:37But that's the top five songs in the country.
15:40Do you know all five?
15:41Do you think everyone knows all five?
15:43Every time I watch Trackstar,
15:45that's all I can think about.
15:46How hard must Jack have to try
15:48to find songs that people know?
15:50And how many throwaway takes must there be
15:52of just total failure
15:54where people don't know the music?
15:56So more often than not,
15:59younger people who grew up
16:01with the streaming platforms
16:04are much more playlist oriented
16:06and artist agnostic.
16:08They're listening to songs and sounds
16:10and they know tons of songs,
16:12but they're like, I don't know who that is.
16:13Oh, totally.
16:15It is harder with like young 20-somethings
16:19because they just go on Spotify
16:21and they listen to a playlist
16:22and then that playlist,
16:23through that playlist,
16:24they discover certain types of artists
16:25that they like.
16:27So if I can figure that out,
16:29it's helpful.
16:30Okay, you like this one band,
16:31maybe there's like a thread here
16:32that I can pull on.
16:34But now I think there's a little bit of pushback
16:36with that generation
16:37where some people are saying,
16:38you know what, I want to go back
16:39and discover what the 80s was like.
16:41And you find these younger people
16:43who are like, I love classic rock.
16:45And some of those videos
16:46perform really well for us.
16:47Or we had a kid who was in high school
16:49and he's like, I'm really into yacht rock, man.
16:51Can't believe we're doing yacht rock
16:53with a 17-year-old.
16:54Here you are.
16:57Great song.
16:58Bless the rains.
16:59Kind of want to let it play through,
17:00to be honest.
17:01Let it play, let it rock.
17:02Africa by Toto.
17:03Five dollars, let's go.
17:04Introduce yourself.
17:05My name's Jack.
17:06Great name.
17:07And the internet loved this kid
17:10because he just was talking about
17:12how great yacht rock is
17:13and he's like 16 years old
17:16and he just had an amazing run of songs
17:18and was so funny and charismatic.
17:20So when we first started,
17:22the very first episodes,
17:23I had created a playlist of game show.
17:26I have a playlist on my phone now.
17:27It's called Game Show Game Songs or something.
17:30And it's just great classic songs.
17:33If you go at the 500 greatest artists
17:35of all time Rolling Stone list
17:37and pick their best songs,
17:38that's a good...
17:39Songs everybody kind of knows.
17:42So I had a playlist set
17:44and if you didn't know these songs,
17:46sorry, you're out of luck.
17:47And then there was like the realization of,
17:49well, if someone gets out after two songs,
17:50that's kind of boring.
17:51You want to encourage them to go to five or six.
17:54It's more fun, interesting video.
17:56So now when they're doing a random interview
17:58with a person on the street,
17:59Jack will usually start by talking with them
18:01a little bit about music.
18:03And when it's a celebrity,
18:04it becomes a big research project
18:05to find songs that both might be
18:08in their wheelhouse,
18:09but also meaningful to them.
18:11In both cases,
18:12the goal very explicitly is
18:14for people to do well at the game,
18:16but not so well as suspicious.
18:18You want to make it easy enough to be fun
18:20without making it so easy it's boring.
18:23And that's a really tricky balance.
18:25So there's like a dialogue.
18:27What kind of stuff do you listen to?
18:29And I think we did one early version
18:31where somebody was like,
18:32I only love jazz music.
18:33And so it's like,
18:34okay, let's do a jazz theme
18:35and that video performed well.
18:36And you realize like having a group
18:38of different jazz songs gives the video a theme
18:41in addition to the person that you're talking to.
18:43There's another sort of narrative playing out there.
18:46And so shifted much more into,
18:48can I try and find like groupings of songs
18:51that make sense together?
18:52Anytime we do 80s pop,
18:54it's clear where you're going
18:57and the audience wants to know
18:58what are the 80s pop songs
18:59that he's going to play here?
19:00So finding those themes is helpful.
19:02And then when it comes to someone
19:05who's a celebrity,
19:06it's trying to research them
19:08and understand or listening to their music
19:11and thinking to myself,
19:12what do I think they were inspired by?
19:14And if I can figure that out,
19:16they're going to have a bigger reaction.
19:18Say, how do you know that I was into this song?
19:20I just guessed it based on these other songs
19:22you've written.
19:23They sound like alike
19:24or it seems like there's inspiration there.
19:26As with everything on the internet,
19:28the whole process isn't quite as random
19:30and chaotic and man on the street
19:31as it might seem in the videos,
19:33but I think that's fine.
19:34And we're going to talk more
19:36about how Trackstar works
19:37and why it works,
19:38but first we got to take a break.
19:45Support for the Verge cast
19:46is brought to you by Nissan Kicks.
19:48Hey, the Nissan Kicks
19:49has undergone a complete transformation,
19:51emerging as the city-sized crossover
19:54redefined for urban adventures.
19:56With a striking new exterior
19:58and a fully revamped interior
19:59boasting premium features,
20:01the Kicks experience
20:02has been totally enhanced
20:03to help you better navigate city life.
20:05And the reimagined Nissan Kicks
20:07is outfitted with
20:08Intelligent All-Wheel Drive
20:10so you can keep going,
20:11rain or shine.
20:12Learn more at
20:13www.nissanusa.com
20:16slash 2025 dash kicks.
20:19Intelligent All-Wheel Drive
20:20cannot prevent collisions
20:21or provide enhanced traction
20:23in all conditions.
20:24Always monitor traffic
20:25and weather conditions.
20:28All right, we're back.
20:29So let's just go behind the music here
20:31for a minute with Trackstar
20:32and talk about how the show
20:33actually gets made.
20:34Because I think something
20:35about its structure and format
20:37is actually a big part
20:38of why it works.
20:39So the whole thing
20:40just starts with Jack
20:41just wandering out
20:43into the streets of New York.
20:44So the way that we approach,
20:46like, man on the street
20:47content creation
20:48is I have a sign
20:50that I hold up
20:51that I just in Sharpie
20:52on cardboard write
20:53whatever the question is.
20:55And the question might be
20:56name the artist, win $5.
20:58Or it might be like
20:59New York City Trivia, win a prize.
21:01And people see that sign
21:02and they approach me
21:03and they do.
21:04What is this about?
21:05I want to win some money.
21:06I want to be a part of this.
21:07This is one way
21:08to do a man on the street stuff.
21:09The other way,
21:10the one I think you see
21:11probably more often online
21:13is just to ambush people
21:14with a microphone and a camera.
21:16Catching people off guard
21:17in that case is part of the appeal
21:19and frankly part of why
21:20it's fun to watch.
21:21But that was never Jack's thing.
21:23I can't tell if he's
21:24too embarrassed to do it
21:26or feels too bad
21:27or it just feels sort of gross.
21:29But whatever it is,
21:30he didn't want to do it.
21:31So instead,
21:32he'd stand there with a sign,
21:33wait for someone to come up to him,
21:34he would explain the show,
21:35and then they were off and running.
21:37Jack would hand them
21:38a pair of headphones,
21:39they'd put them on,
21:40and then he'd hand them a microphone.
21:42So the handheld microphone
21:44was going back to
21:45when we run a whiteboard
21:46deciding what we wanted to do.
21:48I wanted to capture
21:50this local news feel
21:52and give the idea
21:54of handing a microphone
21:56to someone on the street of New York.
21:58We wrote down on the board
21:59Voice of New York City.
22:00That's what we wanted to be,
22:01that was one of our intentions.
22:02So when I have a mic and I say,
22:04you know what,
22:05we're going to give you a chance
22:06to spotlight and say your piece
22:07or put your thing.
22:08That was the sort of,
22:09what we were trying to indicate visually
22:11with the stick mic and the flags.
22:13So that was totally locked in.
22:15The headphones were both practical,
22:17so we could cut the music
22:20however we want to
22:21and people can sort of be in the zone.
22:23And then it was also
22:24a visual signifier of
22:25when you put the headphones on,
22:27you're part of the game.
22:28And then there's the branding aspect
22:30where we felt like
22:31at some point
22:32before we started the show,
22:33I'm like a headphone brand
22:34will want to sponsor this show for sure
22:36because we're just making headphones look cool.
22:39So it was a lot of those things, I think.
22:41Have you gotten a headphone sponsor yet?
22:43We've had a few throughout the years.
22:45We've had a few different ones, yeah.
22:47We've worked with Sennheiser, Bose, and Beats.
22:50I think this kind of stuff is so clever.
22:52And it's the stuff I think about all the time
22:54when I watch these really successful social shows.
22:56If you create a show
22:58that requires nothing other than
23:00a set of Bluetooth headphones,
23:01a smartphone,
23:02and two handheld local news microphones,
23:04you can do that show basically anywhere
23:07and with almost no setup.
23:09Do you know why the Hot Ones set
23:11is all black the way it is?
23:13Or why all of those Vanity Fair videos
23:16or the Wired Autocomplete series
23:17are just on white backgrounds?
23:19It's at least in part
23:21so that they can set up that set
23:23basically anywhere.
23:24Because one thing I've learned over the years
23:26is that if you want to do a show with famous people,
23:28your show has to be able to travel
23:30to those famous people.
23:32And in this case,
23:33it's a heck of a lot simpler
23:34than showing up and eating hot wings
23:36and talking about your feelings.
23:37All you have to do is show up,
23:39put on headphones,
23:40and listen to some music.
23:41But there is one other thing about TrackStar
23:43that's really clever
23:44and I think kind of unique in this space.
23:46It's also a game for the viewer.
23:49There's a couple different aspects of it.
23:51There's playing people snippets of songs
23:53like when you're driving around in the car
23:55on the radio.
23:56It's a game that everyone's played.
23:57This is not a new idea.
23:59So it was more taking this concept
24:01of guest artist
24:02and putting it in a framework
24:04that's going to make sense for social media.
24:06And I think the biggest lesson
24:08that we took away
24:09was people like watching the guest.
24:11They like watching the interaction.
24:13But they also like to be actively participating
24:15in what's happening.
24:16So a lot of the comments are,
24:18Oh, you shouldn't put the album cover
24:20because I guessed it too soon.
24:21Or I've watched people
24:23watching it on their phone
24:24looking over their shoulder
24:25and they're saying the answers
24:27as they're watching it.
24:28That happened when I showed it to my mom
24:30for the first time.
24:31She's like, Oh, that's Bruce Springsteen.
24:32And so then I realized we were onto something
24:34because there's this active participation
24:37instead of sitting back and watching it.
24:40Right, which is different from your average
24:42like even celebrity interview or something
24:45where you're just sort of in the audience.
24:47Like you're trying to invent something
24:48that you're both watching
24:49and playing simultaneously.
24:51And I think because of that,
24:53which I guess is a game show.
24:54Like you just made a good game show.
24:56Well, when you watch Jeopardy, right?
24:58You're trying to answer the questions
25:00as quick as Ken Jennings or whoever's on.
25:04And so I think what's cool is
25:06because of the celebrities
25:07and the regular people mix,
25:09everyone who's watching feels like
25:10if I'm in New York,
25:11maybe I could end up being on this show
25:13and maybe I could win a lot of money.
25:15Which is why we watched
25:17Who Wants to Be a Millionaire
25:18all these other shows.
25:19Like we could win a million dollars.
25:21At this point, I think I get why the show works.
25:24It's fun to play this kind of trivia game.
25:26It's fun to watch strangers succeed.
25:28And frankly, even more fun to watch them fail.
25:30And there's also something about
25:32just all kinds of man on the street content
25:35that is compelling.
25:36Like, do you ever see those videos
25:37where a bunch of dudes set up a basketball hoop
25:40or a soccer goal
25:41and then they throw the ball
25:42to a bunch of strangers
25:43who either shoot it or kick it
25:45or get hit in the head
25:46or fall on their heels
25:48trying to do it or whatever?
25:50That all works for the same reason.
25:52I honestly, I swear to you,
25:54I think I could make that shot.
25:55I hope that I get to try someday
25:57and I will watch every single one of those videos
25:59when they cross my timeline.
26:00So, I get why the show works.
26:02But I'm still wondering
26:04why all of these big-name musicians
26:06keep showing up on Trackstar.
26:08It's not the biggest show in the world.
26:09It's doing well,
26:10but it's not, you know, earth-shattering.
26:12And frankly, a lot of these artists
26:14are vastly more famous than Jack or Trackstar.
26:17It kind of seems like he has more to gain
26:19than they do.
26:20And plus, when they do come on,
26:22it's not like they do some
26:24nakedly promotional version of the game
26:26where they talk about themselves the whole time
26:28or they only listen to their own songs.
26:30There's tons of that kind of thing on the internet
26:33and it's all fine.
26:34But on Trackstar,
26:35they really are just another contestant
26:37playing the game.
26:38Sometimes literally the only promo they do
26:40is just saying their name.
26:42And obviously, even that
26:44is not a new idea at all, of course.
26:46Every late-night guest
26:47who plays a game with Jimmy Fallon
26:49or does, like, the thing where they
26:51test British snacks versus American snacks,
26:54they're all promoting something
26:56without wanting to seem like
26:57they're promoting something.
26:58You know what I mean?
26:59But, like, that's the Tonight Show.
27:01Jack Coyne is great.
27:02Don't get me wrong.
27:03But I think Jimmy Fallon
27:04is probably just a smidge more famous.
27:07And yet, apparently,
27:08every single one of Trackstar's
27:10celebrity appearances
27:11have come from those people
27:13getting in touch with him,
27:14not the other way around.
27:15That means A-list musicians
27:17are going out of their way
27:18to be on his show.
27:20Who was the first artist to reach out?
27:22Olivia Rodrigo.
27:24It was Olivia Rodrigo or Ed Sheeran.
27:26I can't remember the order,
27:27but those two were very early on
27:29and close to each other.
27:31It was crazy, yeah.
27:33Why did they reach out?
27:35I guess they have savvy teams,
27:38and then I think in hindsight now
27:40I've realized more so
27:42that this is part of the music
27:44business now,
27:46is being on social media
27:48and making sure that
27:50these social platforms are aware
27:52of what you're doing
27:53in the music space.
27:54And so, doing stuff
27:56on your own TikTok account
27:57is important,
27:58and then appearing
27:59in the TikTok universe
28:00is important.
28:02Or your streams aren't going to do well.
28:04Yeah.
28:05I think part of the reason
28:06I ask about that,
28:08specifically with Trackstar,
28:09is you're not doing the thing
28:13where it's like,
28:14let's do a podcast
28:15where we talk about your album
28:17for an hour.
28:18Or you're not saying,
28:19let's rank your 10 favorites
28:21of your own songs.
28:22The sort of standard things
28:23people do to promote themselves
28:25and their work,
28:26people just come on
28:27and play your game, right?
28:28And the most they get to say,
28:31I watched the Keith Urban one again
28:33right before we did this,
28:34so this is fresh on my mind.
28:35All he says is,
28:36my name is Keith Urban.
28:37He barely promotes himself
28:39or his work or anything at all.
28:41He's just like,
28:42I'm Keith Urban
28:43and does the show with you.
28:44And on the one hand,
28:46it's slightly surprising
28:48that that's a thing
28:49artists are willing to do
28:50in this day and age
28:51when everything is so transactional
28:52and promotional
28:53and all this stuff.
28:54But also the fact that
28:55they started coming to you
28:57just wanting to do that
28:58is like very cool
28:59and very unusual
29:00in this moment in the industry.
29:02I think that,
29:04and you can look
29:05at the comment section
29:06on that video,
29:07I think it's the best thing
29:09that he could have done
29:10to promote himself
29:11is to not talk about himself.
29:12Because people are saying,
29:14damn, this guy is really cool.
29:16Who knew Keith Urban
29:17was so cool
29:18and knew so much about music?
29:19And that's where they're commenting
29:20and then they're going
29:21to his profile
29:22and they're looking
29:23at his music
29:24and they're like,
29:25is this guy?
29:26Let me explore this myself.
29:27And you give the audience
29:28the tool of feeling
29:29like they get to discover
29:30it on their own
29:31instead of shoving it
29:32down their throats.
29:33And I think that's one
29:34of the great things
29:35about the show
29:36is that it's not
29:37like heavy promotional.
29:38There are two things in there
29:39that I find really interesting.
29:40And frankly,
29:41very telling
29:42and very 2024.
29:43The first is the idea
29:44that you have to keep signaling
29:45to the platforms themselves,
29:47TikTok and Instagram
29:48and the rest,
29:49that you're relevant
29:50and you're around.
29:51You have to keep
29:52making your own stuff,
29:53obviously,
29:54but also showing up
29:55in stuff with a similar focus
29:56and a similar audience
29:57to be like,
29:58hey, algorithms,
29:59other people think I matter.
30:00This has obviously
30:01been a thing forever, right?
30:02Creator collabs
30:03have been around
30:04as long as there
30:05have been creators.
30:06But there's something specific
30:07about signaling that
30:09to the platform
30:10that I find really fascinating.
30:11The other thing
30:12is the thing
30:13that keeps making me think of TRL.
30:14That maybe actually
30:16doing something
30:17that gets you out there
30:18but doesn't just feel like
30:19pure promotion
30:20of your latest project
30:21is more important than ever.
30:23This is the reason
30:25people post
30:26their personal lives
30:27on Instagram.
30:28It's the reason
30:29authenticity is everything, right?
30:31That stuff
30:32is what people care about now.
30:34It's what they gravitate to.
30:35And it feels more important
30:37to do
30:38and maybe harder
30:39to pull off
30:40on social media
30:41than just about
30:42on any other platform.
30:43And I think
30:44trackstar
30:45and things like it
30:46give people a way
30:47to show up
30:48in front of an audience
30:49that feels
30:50candid and authentic
30:51and not
30:52nakedly promotional
30:53even when it's
30:54not exactly
30:56any of those things.
30:57On a lot of the videos
30:58that Jack does
30:59with well-known artists,
31:00there are comments
31:01from people
31:02who love
31:03that the artist
31:04isn't promoting themselves.
31:05On the Keith Urban video,
31:06which I just rewatched,
31:07there's a ton of that.
31:08People love that Keith
31:09is just a guy
31:10who wants to show up
31:11and talk about music.
31:12I think that works
31:13for Keith Urban.
31:14There are also,
31:15by the way,
31:16comments from people
31:17on every single one
31:18of these videos
31:19who are just like,
31:20oh my gosh,
31:21imagine running into
31:22so-and-so in New York
31:23or OMG,
31:24I can't believe
31:25you just ran into them.
31:26I assume a bunch of those
31:27people are in on the bit,
31:28but I bet they aren't
31:29all in on the bit.
31:30And I think that vibe
31:32is really important,
31:33both for the show
31:34and for the guests
31:35coming onto it.
31:36Personally,
31:37I first found Trackstar
31:38because of one of those
31:39better-known artists.
31:40I think,
31:41I think
31:42it was Olivia Rodrigo.
31:43So shawty,
31:44it's your birthday,
31:4557.
31:46It was the number one
31:47song of the year,
31:48the year you were born.
31:49I did know that.
31:50Can you introduce yourself?
31:51Hey,
31:52I'm Olivia Rodrigo.
31:53Thanks for having me.
31:54But I do also have
31:55a distinct memory
31:56of seeing the Trackstar video
31:57with Malcolm Todd,
31:58who is an up-and-coming artist
31:59who was in Trackstar's
32:00all-time most popular video
32:02with more than 15 million views.
32:05320,
32:06or do you want to take the 160?
32:07320.
32:08I just have to beat Olivia Rodrigo.
32:09There's one goal at this point.
32:11She's unbeatable.
32:17Oh, Black Sabbath?
32:19The fact that Malcolm Todd
32:20was more popular
32:21than Olivia Rodrigo
32:22or Ed Sheeran
32:23or any of the other names
32:24that I've mentioned so far...
32:25By the way,
32:26did I mention Oprah yet?
32:27Because Oprah was on the show
32:28pretty recently.
32:29Wild times.
32:31This all continues
32:32to surprise me.
32:33But it turns out
32:34that celebrities,
32:35even really big ones,
32:36aren't needle-movers
32:37the way that you might think.
32:38It's interesting.
32:39I've thought about a lot.
32:40Like, what would happen
32:41if Taylor Swift came on the show?
32:42That would be a huge moment, right?
32:43Biggest artist in the world.
32:44I think we would maybe gain
32:475,000 followers
32:49from having Taylor Swift on.
32:50I don't...
32:51I think the video itself
32:52would do really well,
32:53and then maybe some people
32:54would write about it
32:55and say,
32:56Taylor Swift went on
32:57this social media show.
32:58But...
32:59And that would be very,
33:00very popular.
33:02And that would be valuable for us
33:03from a brand equity standpoint,
33:05but it would not boost
33:07the following
33:08in any meaningful way.
33:09But then down the road,
33:11you know,
33:12Oreo might say,
33:13wow,
33:14this guy had Taylor Swift on.
33:15We should pay him a million dollars
33:16to do something else.
33:18Let's talk about
33:19the something else there.
33:20But first,
33:21we have to take a break.
33:27Support for The Verge cast
33:28is brought to you
33:29by Nissan Kicks.
33:31Hey, the Nissan Kicks
33:32has undergone
33:33a complete transformation,
33:34emerging as the
33:35city-sized crossover
33:36redefined for urban adventures.
33:38With a striking new exterior
33:40and a fully revamped interior
33:41boasting premium features,
33:43the Kicks experience
33:44has been totally enhanced
33:45to help you better
33:46navigate city life.
33:47And the reimagined Nissan Kicks
33:49is outfitted with
33:50intelligent all-wheel drive,
33:52so you can keep going,
33:53rain or shine.
33:54Learn more at
33:55www.nissanusa.com
33:59slash 2025-Kicks.
34:02Intelligent all-wheel drive
34:03cannot prevent collisions
34:04or provide enhanced traction
34:05in all conditions.
34:06Always monitor traffic
34:07and weather conditions.
34:11Alright, we're back.
34:12So, Trackstar is working,
34:14it's popular,
34:15it's growing,
34:16the format is endlessly repeatable
34:17and essentially works forever.
34:19The team does want to have
34:20Taylor Swift on,
34:21just in case that wasn't
34:22clear before.
34:23And Jack also has
34:24a running list of other
34:25ideal guests.
34:26He's talked a bunch
34:27in interviews before
34:28about Bruce Springsteen,
34:29but there are
34:30lots of others too.
34:31Uh, Barack Obama.
34:32Oh, yeah.
34:33Because he does,
34:34he releases his songs
34:35all the time.
34:36And nobody ever believes him,
34:38which I love.
34:39Everybody is like,
34:40there's no way he listens
34:41to these songs.
34:42I would actually play him
34:43the songs from his own playlist.
34:45Be like,
34:46you really listen to
34:47Million Dollar Baby
34:48by Tommy Richmond?
34:49Like, that's really your jam?
34:50And then I'm imagining him,
34:51anyway, that would be
34:53a fun one to do,
34:54just to like put him
34:55to the test.
34:56Uh, I think as far as
34:58musicians go,
34:59um, there's Paul McCartney,
35:01uh, or Ringo even,
35:03might be more legendary
35:04than Paul McCartney.
35:05Um, so there's like
35:07those classic,
35:08just people who've been around
35:10for a long time
35:11who are legends and icons
35:12are great.
35:13And then, um,
35:14I think that there's
35:15a huge opportunity
35:16with like hip hop
35:18that we haven't fully
35:19tapped into,
35:20where like an extended
35:21conversation with Nas
35:23would be really cool,
35:24and talking about stuff
35:25that he's listening to
35:26and rappers that
35:27inspired him,
35:28I think would be a little
35:29unexpected.
35:30And then, yeah,
35:31more non-musicians,
35:32more just like
35:33interesting people
35:34who care about music,
35:36I think would be fun.
35:37And athletes.
35:38That's like the real
35:39untapped one.
35:40Like, I want to talk
35:41to LeBron James.
35:42Like, he loves music.
35:43What if,
35:44what would it be like
35:45if he and I were
35:46in a room together
35:47and I'm playing him songs
35:48and he's getting all
35:49fired up,
35:50I love listening to this
35:51before a game!
35:52That'd be amazing.
35:53Beyond that though,
35:54it's pretty clear to me
35:55that the public opinion
35:56team has tapped
35:57into something
35:58bigger than just
35:59the 90 second setup
36:01with the headphones
36:02and the microphone
36:03on TikTok.
36:04So now,
36:05they're trying to expand
36:06outside of that.
36:07I mean,
36:08I think it's exciting
36:09for us to experiment
36:10and add on different layers
36:11and try different things.
36:12So we recently started
36:13doing a head-to-head
36:14track star versus competition.
36:15Which I like.
36:16It's very good.
36:17Which is fun,
36:18where you get,
36:19especially when you have
36:20two artists who have a song
36:21that they're collaborating on,
36:22or maybe it's a band
36:23with where you can
36:24create some of that
36:25band rivalry
36:26and banter.
36:27So we're experimenting
36:28with that.
36:29And then we have another show
36:30that we do called
36:31Track Star Presents,
36:32which is a performance show
36:33here in the studio.
36:34And we put out episodes
36:35like every week or two.
36:37And it's kind of like
36:38a tiny desk concert,
36:39but with more conversation
36:41in between the songs.
36:42And that's like a half,
36:4420 minute to half hour
36:45episode on YouTube.
36:46So it's very different.
36:47Yeah, is that,
36:49how big a focus
36:50is that for you
36:51right now?
36:52To sort of build
36:53the longer form
36:54YouTube channel?
36:55Well, we just,
36:57for a long time,
36:58we had both shows,
36:59Public Opinion
37:00and Track Star
37:01on one YouTube channel.
37:02And we recently decided
37:03to split them
37:04just because it felt like
37:06there was two different audiences.
37:08And so putting two different videos
37:09up on the same channel
37:10didn't make sense.
37:11So we finally split them
37:13and started a new
37:14Track Star YouTube channel.
37:16And our first video
37:17was five or so minute
37:19conversation with
37:20Amelia DeMoldenberg
37:21from Chicken Shop Date.
37:22She's great.
37:23And we realized,
37:24she's amazing.
37:25We realized doing,
37:26she, her press people said,
37:27could she come on Track Star?
37:29She's gonna be in New York.
37:30Yes, of course.
37:31That'd be amazing.
37:32We filmed for 20 to 30 minutes
37:33probably each episode.
37:34And what you see on TikTok
37:35is 90 or less usually.
37:37And we're like,
37:38we're leaving so much
37:39great stuff on the floor.
37:41Like, why don't we put out
37:42a five minute episode
37:43and show people what that's like
37:44and then add some more
37:45layers to it.
37:46And so we just put out
37:47the first one
37:48and then we're putting out
37:50Track Star presents
37:51sessions on the same channel.
37:52So we're really excited about it.
37:54The hard part about long form
37:56is you have to create
37:57the packaging.
37:58You're not just 100%
37:59relying on the algorithm
38:00to push it to people
38:01who want it.
38:02You have to get people
38:03to click in,
38:04which is a whole other game.
38:06Do you think
38:07you're in a position now
38:09where you and Track Star
38:11are big enough
38:12that you can
38:13pull that audience
38:14anyway?
38:15Or does it truly feel like
38:16starting from nothing,
38:17trying to make it happen
38:18on YouTube?
38:20It feels like starting
38:21from nothing
38:22because
38:24the consumption pattern
38:25is so, so different.
38:27Like, when you're watching
38:29short form videos
38:30in your feed,
38:31it's like
38:32you're on the toilet,
38:33you're making coffee,
38:34you're in line for something.
38:36It's just like in the background
38:37throughout your day.
38:38Whereas YouTube is like
38:39you've got to really dial in
38:40and pay attention to it.
38:42Even a podcast
38:43can be like you're in your car,
38:44it's in the background,
38:45you're walking to work.
38:46Whereas YouTube,
38:47you really have to get people,
38:48and I think it's almost,
38:50a huge percentage of it now
38:51is happening on connected TVs.
38:53So you really got to get people
38:54to say,
38:55instead of watching Netflix,
38:56I'm going to watch Track Star
38:58for a half hour.
38:59And so it's a big jump.
39:00And hopefully we can get
39:01some people,
39:02but I think we have to find
39:03that people are already
39:04looking for great stuff
39:05on YouTube
39:06and get them to discover us.
39:07A big part of making
39:08the existing channel work
39:10and the success
39:11of all these new initiatives
39:12hangs on the person
39:13in these videos
39:14that we haven't talked
39:15that much about yet.
39:16That's Jack.
39:17He's always really involved
39:19in the Track Star videos.
39:21He's often wearing
39:22a backwards hat
39:23or like a cool overcoat.
39:25But he's always laughing
39:26and having fun with the guests.
39:27And he's the one
39:29who really sets the vibe
39:30for the whole thing
39:31in a way that I actually think
39:32is really important.
39:33He like points to the camera
39:35and demands of the person
39:36that they introduce themselves,
39:38regardless of whether
39:39it's a person
39:40that you've never seen before
39:41and will never see again,
39:42or if it is like
39:43one of the 50 most famous people
39:45on planet Earth.
39:46I love that.
39:48He's kind of reluctant
39:49to give himself much credit,
39:50but I really do think
39:52he's a bigger part of it
39:53than it might seem.
39:54I think my job
39:56is to be very
39:58sort of optimistic
40:00and kind
40:01and make people feel comfortable
40:03and sort of try
40:04and bring out a positive.
40:06As you watch the show,
40:07you see I'm really smiley
40:08and I'm laughing
40:09and I'm giggling all the time.
40:10That's true.
40:11That is who my personality is.
40:12But I also think
40:13that that helps make
40:14the random person
40:15on the street comfortable.
40:16I'm not trying
40:17to play gotcha.
40:18I'm trying to encourage you
40:20to guess these songs correctly
40:21because when you get
40:22something right,
40:23you're excited
40:24and you're happy
40:25and you're like,
40:26oh, how I just won five bucks.
40:27Then I can come in
40:28and say,
40:29so tell me about your life.
40:30How did you grow up?
40:31Or tell me about your mom
40:32or whatever.
40:33Sometimes I refer to it
40:35as like the game show
40:36as a Trojan horse
40:37to get people to open up
40:39because they're distracted
40:40by guessing songs
40:42and then they're much
40:43more comfortable
40:44and willing to talk
40:45about everything else,
40:46which is like eating the hot ones,
40:47eating the hotter they get,
40:48the more you're distracted
40:49by how spicy it is.
40:50So you talk about your feelings.
40:52So I think that's probably
40:54a large part of my role
40:56and where it comes from
40:57is my whole career
40:59of making videos
41:00and doing YouTube content.
41:02I've always been told
41:03the best part of what you do
41:04is when you're engaging
41:05and talking to regular people
41:07and having that
41:08off-the-cuff conversation,
41:09you should lean into that.
41:10This is the sneakiest thing
41:12about Trackstar
41:13and it's the thing
41:14that makes it different
41:15from so much music content
41:16out there.
41:17It's actually really only
41:18a little tiny bit
41:19about the music.
41:21Jack seems to have always
41:22understood this thing
41:23as a conversation show
41:25with sort of a loose
41:26music-y structure
41:28rather than a thing
41:29where the music is the point.
41:31And honestly,
41:32even the music he picks
41:34is meant to make
41:35that other dynamic
41:36work better.
41:38So before I go into it
41:41or even at the beginning
41:42of the conversation,
41:43I'm asking about
41:44what do you listen to
41:45or who are some artists
41:46that have resonated with you?
41:48Or I research the celebrity
41:49and I try and find things
41:51that they're going to have
41:52an emotional response to
41:54and that helps open people up.
41:56Like, wait,
41:57you played this song?
41:58How do you know
41:59that this is the song
42:00that I danced
42:01my first dance at my wedding?
42:02And so that's going to trigger
42:03an emotional response.
42:05So that's the intention
42:06of the songs
42:07is to try and find things
42:08that remind people of
42:10oh, man,
42:11I used to listen to this
42:12with my dad
42:13when we were on the way
42:14to baseball practice.
42:15Well, tell me about that.
42:17So I'm hoping
42:18that that's working.
42:19It's not easy to do
42:20like always on the spot,
42:22but that's what I'm
42:23100% striving for
42:24all the time.
42:25I feel like that has come up
42:26a bunch where you play
42:27a song for somebody
42:28and they're like,
42:29oh, this song
42:30directly inspired
42:31some other song
42:32that I wrote
42:33or was meaningful to me
42:34as a teenager or whatever.
42:35And I always assumed
42:36that was mostly research,
42:38but it's interesting
42:39that it's a mix of research
42:40and just sort of
42:42educational guesses
42:43about what music people like.
42:45You'd be surprised
42:46how often I stumble
42:47into something
42:48that I didn't realize
42:50there was all this meaning
42:51behind it.
42:52And that's like
42:53my favorite moments
42:54in doing this show.
42:56If you think about that setup,
42:57music as a way
42:58into other kinds of content
43:00and especially into
43:01personal conversation,
43:02you can go all sorts of ways.
43:04And that, in a nutshell,
43:05appears to be
43:06the track star plan.
43:08There have been
43:09lots of conversations
43:10about starting
43:11a record label.
43:12Really?
43:13So it's not like
43:14happening tomorrow,
43:15but it's definitely something
43:16that's track star records
43:19could happen.
43:20A, that's a good name.
43:22So that's good.
43:23What would that,
43:24why do a record label?
43:25What would that look like?
43:26Well, it's twofold.
43:28Because of the sessions
43:29that are happening in here,
43:30we have artists come in
43:32and do covers.
43:33So there's a lot of,
43:35I think a lot of covers
43:36are blowing up online
43:38and there's an opportunity there.
43:39Triple J is releasing stuff
43:41and a few of those
43:43different online publishers
43:45have released songs
43:46in conjunction with artists,
43:47so there's an opportunity there.
43:48And then, like you talked about,
43:50discovering new artists.
43:51What if we got a pool
43:53of money together
43:54and we said,
43:55we're going to invest
43:56a million dollars
43:57in 10 artists
43:58and we're going to tell the story
43:59of track star records
44:00through social media
44:01over the course of a year.
44:02And it's almost like
44:03how making the band was
44:04on MTV back in the day.
44:05Can we do that
44:06through social media?
44:08Do you think you could?
44:09100%, yeah.
44:11I watched Making the Band
44:12religiously back in the day
44:14when it was about
44:15creating the band O-Town.
44:16And I swear to you,
44:17that show would
44:18100% work today.
44:20A super intense competition show
44:22that's also a behind the scenes look
44:24at what it means to be a pop star
44:26is like social media gold.
44:28Actually,
44:29there was recently a Netflix show
44:31about a K-pop group
44:32called Cat's Eye
44:33that was essentially
44:34that,
44:35but they also had this
44:36very public side of it
44:37where people were seeing
44:38the performances
44:39throughout the audition process.
44:41It was wild.
44:42The show is awesome.
44:43I would watch it
44:44a million more times
44:45about a million more
44:46kinds of groups.
44:47There are other moves
44:48for track star itself, too,
44:50as it grows and becomes
44:51more of a business.
44:52One thing I see
44:53in the comments
44:54of the videos all the time
44:55is people discovering new songs
44:57thanks to track star.
44:58The show does have
44:59an official Spotify playlist
45:01with all the songs,
45:02but there's definitely more
45:03it could do there
45:05because being a reliable
45:06source of new music
45:07or just a reliable way
45:09to make old songs cool again
45:11makes you very powerful
45:13in the modern music world.
45:14It's like it goes back
45:16to being a teenager
45:18and saying,
45:19like, pass me the ox.
45:20Like, I'm going to play a song
45:22that's like you guys
45:23are going to love.
45:24I think everyone has that
45:25like little piece of their
45:27where they want to show
45:28their friends like,
45:29check this song out.
45:30This is a great song.
45:31So yeah,
45:32huge part of why I do this
45:34and how I like to choose songs.
45:35I just want to play good stuff
45:37in terms of becoming
45:38a tastemaker.
45:39Like if that's happening,
45:40that's great.
45:42I just want people
45:43to know about good music,
45:44I guess.
45:45And maybe there's a way
45:46to turn that into something
45:47that's a little bit more
45:48substantial or meaningful
45:49or focused specifically on that.
45:51I mean, we have playlists
45:52on our Spotify,
45:53like a bunch
45:54of different playlists.
45:55So there's some stuff there.
45:57Have you gotten labels
45:58or anything calling you
45:59being like, hey,
46:00can you play this song
46:02Yeah, all the time.
46:03People ask us to play songs,
46:04but I can't just.
46:06The thing is,
46:07a lot of times,
46:08it's new songs.
46:09Can you play this brand new song?
46:10I'm like,
46:11well, how are people
46:12going to know this song
46:13that like no one,
46:14this artist just came out?
46:15It doesn't make any sense.
46:16Like if you want to pay me
46:17to play the Beatles,
46:18I'll do that.
46:19And people are like,
46:20we're not going to pay you
46:21to play the Beatles.
46:22Damn.
46:24So yeah,
46:26it's hard.
46:28You have to find things
46:29that like are universally
46:30recognized and those tend
46:31to be things that people
46:32aren't promoting.
46:33Remember, though,
46:34Jack is not a music guy.
46:35That's important to all of this.
46:37He's a creator.
46:38He likes telling stories.
46:39Music is just a vehicle
46:41to get there.
46:42Trackstar was just an excuse
46:43to talk to people
46:44about something they liked
46:45and cared about and knew.
46:47Everything else they're working on
46:49is the same way.
46:50And, you know,
46:51if that happens to also double
46:53as a really fun game show
46:55to watch and a way
46:56for mega famous celebrities
46:57to be out and about
46:58and into music,
46:59all the better.
47:00It really does feel to me
47:02like a throwback
47:03to the early 2000s
47:04when shows like TRL
47:06were all about making music
47:07feel like a hang.
47:08And they understood
47:10before social media,
47:11before the internet
47:12made everything
47:13about the individual people,
47:15that getting to know the artists
47:17and getting to know
47:18what they liked
47:19and what they cared about
47:20and what inspired them
47:21was maybe even more important
47:23to liking their music
47:24than the music.
47:26Another show that I loved
47:27from around that time
47:28was Pop-Up Video,
47:29which was adding trivia
47:30and jokes to music videos
47:31way before anyone was posting
47:33memes on Instagram.
47:35Pop-Up Video, by the way,
47:36was apparently a big inspiration
47:38for Trackstar.
47:39What was the cute beetle
47:42doing in a Tokyo jail cell?
47:45Should George Harrison
47:47get his own zit cut?
47:48TRL, Pop-Up Video,
47:49making the band,
47:51the music industry has changed
47:52in countless ways in 20 years.
47:55But maybe it hasn't changed at all.
47:57And maybe if it has,
47:58we're going back
47:59to some things
48:00about the way that it was
48:01that maybe we never
48:02should have left
48:03in the first place.
48:04People are buying records again.
48:05They're listening to full albums
48:07to get away from
48:08the infinite playlisting
48:09of everything.
48:10That thing Jack
48:11is talking about
48:12where you just hear music
48:13and you sort of know
48:14the sounds,
48:15but you don't know the artists,
48:16you don't know the lyrics.
48:17That just feels bad.
48:19I had a friend
48:20who used to call it
48:21Spotify music,
48:22music that's designed
48:23to not bother you
48:24when you're not paying attention
48:26and to be just interesting enough
48:27when you are
48:28to keep you hooked.
48:30That's not good music.
48:31That's Spotify music.
48:32And I think people are
48:33pushing back
48:34toward looking for good music.
48:36They're also, you know,
48:37rocking wired headphones.
48:38And they're looking for new ways
48:40to hang out
48:41with their favorite music
48:42and musicians
48:43and get to know them
48:44in new ways.
48:46It's new platforms,
48:47new hosts,
48:48new musicians,
48:49but the more things change,
48:50the more they stay the same.
48:52I think that line's
48:53from a song, actually.
48:55It's a good one.
48:57All right.
48:58That is it for The Verge cast today.
48:59Thank you to Jack
49:00for being on the show with me today.
49:01And thank you, as always,
49:02for listening.
49:03There's lots more
49:04on everything we talked about
49:05at theverge.com.
49:06I'll put a bunch of links
49:07in the show notes.
49:08You should go watch
49:09TrackStar videos.
49:10They're super fun.
49:11I see a lot of people
49:12who will find one video
49:13and then just go back
49:14to the very beginning
49:15of TrackStar
49:16and watch them all the way through.
49:17Super fun.
49:18I actually highly recommend
49:19doing so.
49:20As always,
49:21if you have thoughts,
49:22questions,
49:23feelings,
49:24or other
49:25early 2000s era TV shows
49:27that you think
49:28I should watch again,
49:29you can always email us
49:30at vergecast
49:31at theverge.com.
49:32Or keep calling the hotline.
49:33We love hearing from you.
49:34Send us all of your thoughts
49:35and questions.
49:36We have two more of these
49:37future music episodes
49:38to do this month.
49:39I would love to hear
49:40what you think
49:41about all of them
49:42and other things
49:43you think we should do.
49:44This is one of our
49:45favorite series.
49:46We've done it before.
49:47We'll probably do it again.
49:48I'd love to hear your ideas.
49:49This show is produced
49:50by Liam James,
49:51Will Poore,
49:52and Eric Gomez.
49:53This show is part of
49:54The Verge Production
49:55and part of
49:56the Vox Media Podcast Network.
49:57We'll be back
49:58with your regularly scheduled
49:59programming on
50:00Tuesday and Friday
50:01because good lord,
50:02the news never stops.
50:03We've got Alexa stuff
50:04to talk about.
50:05We're going to do our best
50:06to avoid talking
50:07about the election.
50:08We've got a lot of
50:09Apple stuff going on.
50:10Just a lot to do.
50:11Keep coming back.
50:12We'll see you then.
50:13Rock and roll.
50:15Support for The VergeCast
50:16is brought to you
50:17by Nissan Kicks.
50:18Hey, the Nissan Kicks
50:19has undergone
50:20a complete transformation.
50:21Emerging as the
50:22city-sized crossover
50:23redefined for urban adventures.
50:24With a striking new exterior
50:25and a fully revamped interior
50:26boasting premium features,
50:27the Kicks experience
50:28has been totally enhanced
50:29to help you better
50:30navigate city life.
50:31And the revamped interior
50:32has been completely redesigned
50:33for urban adventures.
50:34With a striking new exterior
50:35and a fully revamped interior
50:36boasting premium features,
50:37the Kicks experience
50:38has been totally enhanced
50:39to help you better
50:40navigate city life.
50:41And the revamped interior
50:42has been totally enhanced
50:43to help you better
50:44navigate city life.
50:45And the reimagined
50:46Nissan Kicks
50:47is outfitted with
50:48Intelligent All-Wheel Drive
50:49so you can keep going
50:50rain or shine.
50:51Learn more at
50:52www.nissanusa.com
50:53slash 2025-Kicks.
50:54Learn more at
50:55www.nissanusa.com
50:56slash 2025-Kicks.
50:57Intelligent All-Wheel Drive
50:58cannot prevent collisions
50:59or provide enhanced traction
51:00in all conditions.
51:01Always monitor traffic
51:02and weather conditions.