MEDI1TV Afrique : Questions d'actu : zoom sur la coopération Maroc-Espagne - 12/12/2024
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00:00Ladies and gentlemen, good evening and welcome to Questions d'Actu.
00:16Spain presents its strategic plan 2025-2028 for Africa, a 100-measure plan that relies
00:24on the strengthening of the political dialogue with Africa through the creation of a foundation
00:30to generate academic opportunities for African youth.
00:34The announcement was made by the head of the Spanish government, Pedro Sánchez,
00:38on the occasion of the visit of representatives from Mauritania and Senegal to seal agreements
00:43on the training of young people, the promotion of the local economy and the cooperation program
00:50that already exists between Morocco and Spain as part of a strengthened and multidimensional
00:56strategic partnership between Morocco and Spain.
00:59With us tonight to talk about it, Mr. Yassine Lietioui, you are the Secretary-General of Neige-Maroc.
01:05Good evening, thank you for being with us.
01:08Good evening, thank you for the invitation.
01:10With us also, Mr. Hicham Ouattia Dide, you are an expert in strategic policy.
01:15Thank you for accepting our invitation.
01:18Thank you for the invitation as well.
01:20So, Mr. Lietioui, the cooperation between Morocco and Spain, a multidimensional cooperation,
01:28a strengthened cooperation that continues to be strengthened even more.
01:33A model to follow?
01:36A model to follow, because now Spain is no longer a country on the periphery of Europe,
01:42but it is a power that we call in geopolitics or in geostrategy,
01:47a discreet power, but a power that is becoming more and more heard
01:52on the European and international scene.
01:56And this multidimensional partnership with African countries shows Spain's ambition
02:02to prepare for the coming decade, starting in 2030,
02:06to become an essential engine of the Mediterranean
02:11and to also take advantage of its geostrategic location with the Gibraltar Detroit,
02:16with its proximity to the African continent,
02:20separated by less than fifteen kilometers,
02:23to really create multidimensional partnerships,
02:28of integration with youth, of training as well.
02:32And it is also a kind of diplomacy that Spain is trying to create.
02:36We remind you that Spain was a former colonial power
02:40and the Spanish decolonization was different from the decolonization
02:45of France or Britain, for example.
02:47And now the Spanish soft power is based on these concrete cooperations
02:53on the ground of youth training.
02:56Why youth?
02:57Because Spain is also in a deep crisis in terms of birth rate.
03:03The Spanish birth rate is the lowest in the European continent.
03:09It is around 1.16, 1.20 children per woman.
03:13And so there is a social need for Spain
03:17to be able to re-energize the demographic balance of its country a little bit.
03:23A concrete cooperation, you said it, on the ground.
03:27Precisely when we talk about this plan, in any case Spanish,
03:30which has been announced, we are talking about a hundred measures.
03:34We have just addressed the Moroccan-Spanish cooperation,
03:37which is a multidimensional cooperation, as I have just said,
03:42reinforced and there is a model to follow.
03:44What role today, Mr. Mohamed Sadiq, can Morocco play
03:49to help Spain or accompany Spain in this reinforcement of ties
03:54with African countries?
03:57I think Morocco has a very important role to play
04:02in this Spanish-African dynamic.
04:05Why? Because there is first of all this historical link
04:07that has been solidified, built between Madrid and Rava.
04:12And I think that by building on this relationship between Spain and Morocco
04:18and this model that has been built,
04:20it can really serve as a reference
04:24so that Madrid can really build again
04:27or broaden its horizon on the African continent.
04:30As you know, there were several areas of cooperation
04:34between the two border countries.
04:37And this cooperation was built in a very intelligent,
04:43very solid, but also very strategic way.
04:45And I think that Rava's knowledge,
04:49which he developed in Africa
04:52and his understanding of African issues,
04:54could actually serve Spain as a platform
05:01in order to understand the dynamics or the issues
05:04that Morocco has faced during its presence on the African continent.
05:09When we talk about the Morocco-Spain partnership,
05:11a strategic partnership, in particular in terms of immigration,
05:17Spain plans to regularize 900,000 migrants in three years.
05:23Morocco already has expertise in this area.
05:26How can Morocco accompany Spain in this sense, Mr. Lietiwy?
05:31Morocco can take advantage of its expertise
05:35and also the knowledge of the demographic,
05:40socio-cultural and social realities of the African continent.
05:43In fact, Spain will use a little bit of the framework
05:47that France has been using since the signing of the exceptional partnership
05:52a few weeks ago with Rava,
05:56of its expertise and its knowledge of the African continent.
06:00And this knowledge of the African continent
06:02will now allow both Spain and France
06:07to take advantage of Moroccan knowledge
06:10to be able to integrate these multidimensional partnerships
06:14in a slightly more rational way,
06:16at the level of youth, at the economic, social, cultural,
06:21and also ecological level.
06:23Because Spain also has a desire to be able to
06:28quickly take advantage of Moroccan expertise
06:31at the level of ecological knowledge,
06:35because the priority is size.
06:37Climate change is greatly weakening the Spanish economy,
06:41especially agricultural.
06:43And so Morocco will be able to, in fact,
06:46to engage each time in tripartite negotiations
06:50with its African partners.
06:52Mr. Mouassadid, to what extent can this Moroccan model
06:56of migration management be exported to other regions?
07:01I think that Morocco has developed a certain expertise
07:06for several years in terms of management,
07:10not only as a country of transition to Europe,
07:14but also as an establishment where a certain number of Africans
07:20have chosen to settle.
07:22And I think that in this change,
07:24in the dynamics of the relations of displacement and immigration,
07:30Morocco has been able to develop a certain expertise,
07:33a certain expertise at the political level,
07:35a certain expertise at the administrative level,
07:37but also a certain expertise at the level of developing a culture
07:42vis-à-vis this new establishment of choice
07:45for these African sub-Saharans.
07:49I think that Morocco still has a deeper experience,
07:53especially through its secular ties with other African countries.
07:58And this understanding,
08:00this sensitivity to the understanding of the sub-Saharan culture
08:03and this belonging to this continent
08:05could serve as a model for Spain.
08:08Today, I think that the Spanish officials have very well understood
08:13that the issue of immigration must not be limited to being managed as a challenge,
08:19but rather as an opportunity.
08:21And from this angle,
08:23this new geopolitical strategy,
08:25the Spanish officials have developed this new strategy.
08:28I think that Morocco has a very important role to play at this level,
08:32notably through its belonging to the African continent,
08:35through the expertise it has developed over the years,
08:39but also through this knowledge of Spain,
08:41of the Spanish political culture.
08:43And this platform that Morocco plays,
08:47whether at the cultural, political and strategic level,
08:50of understanding both the African continent
08:53and the culture of its populations,
08:54but also of its neighbouring countries,
08:59the North of Europe,
09:00I think it gives it the privilege to play
09:03as what we call a cross-border platform
09:06to serve as an example of this strategic cooperation
09:11between Madrid,
09:12both between Madrid and Rabat,
09:13but also between Madrid and the rest of the African continent.
09:15You said it, Mr Mouattia.
09:17You said that Morocco has a role to play
09:19in this cooperation between Spain and Africa.
09:21But let's go back to this plan proposed
09:25by the head of the Spanish government, Mr Lietihoui.
09:28What are Spain's ambitions in Africa today
09:33through this strategic plan?
09:34How does this plan fit into Spain's general foreign policy?
09:41The integration of Spanish diplomacy
09:45on the African continent is now a priority for Madrid.
09:49It's a priority because the competition is huge.
09:52France is back on the African continent
09:56after a few years of great difficulty.
09:59There are also the United States,
10:02there is China,
10:04and then there is also Turkey, which must not be forgotten.
10:08And so Spain,
10:09because of its geographical proximity
10:12to the African continent,
10:14and also because of its colonial past in the 20th century,
10:18wants to take advantage of this opportunity
10:21to diversify its diplomacy.
10:24Because African youth can simply take advantage
10:29of the opportunity of Spanish economic development.
10:33We know that Spain is a country
10:36that has a very important agricultural force
10:39for the European continent.
10:41But given its demographic decline and growth,
10:45we're even talking about demographic winter for Spain,
10:48African youth, which is not far off,
10:51an African youth who also appreciates Spanish culture,
10:56who also follows Spanish news
10:59due to the many African diasporas
11:05present on the Spanish territory,
11:08allows Madrid to have a new understanding software
11:13that allows the entire Spanish diplomatic corps
11:19to seize this opportunity
11:22in order to become, as I explained earlier,
11:24no longer a discrete power,
11:27but a power at a diplomatic level
11:30on the entire African continent.
11:32A diplomatic power on the continent,
11:35Mr. Muadzadi, in the context of this plan,
11:37agreements have been reached in various areas,
11:42in the field of training, in the countries of origin,
11:45temporary contracts related to seasonal jobs,
11:48the needs of the agricultural sector,
11:50which Mr. Liet-Sy-Wi talked about just now.
11:53Tell us about this plan in more detail,
11:56about these 100 measures.
11:59In fact, it is a plan that relies on several axes
12:03and several measures that will allow Madrid
12:06not only to fill this negativity
12:13in terms of the management of this issue of immigration,
12:16which it has been doing for several years,
12:20but in fact, as I explained earlier,
12:23to move from a certain vision of challenge
12:27to a certain vision of opportunity.
12:29And based on this new vision,
12:32Madrid has tried to implement a number of measures
12:37to support not only the people who are on its soil,
12:43but also the people who would like to join Spain.
12:47Why? Because it wants to boost its economy
12:51for the next 25 years,
12:52especially since several strategic indicators
12:55indicate that there is a deficit,
12:57a shortage of labor,
13:00which rises to 200,000 immigrants per year.
13:03And I think that when a number of reports
13:06sounded an alarm to the Spanish government,
13:11it pushed several officials to rethink their policy
13:17or their orientation towards immigration.
13:19And based on these reports,
13:22Madrid has decided to transform the management of this issue
13:27from a point of view of challenge to a point of view of opportunity,
13:29which will offer even more flexibility,
13:32both in terms of bureaucracy and in terms of welcoming these immigrants.
13:36It should also be noted that Madrid will use this new strategy
13:42as a form of diplomacy
13:46towards a number of African countries
13:48in order to build or solidify its strategic presence in these countries.
13:54Why? Because this lever of immigration
13:58will be able to serve as a bridge for economic renegotiation,
14:01investment and openness,
14:03so that both sides can win.
14:06And I think that Madrid has quickly grasped this,
14:09especially since a certain number of European countries
14:12already find it difficult to move from this vision of challenge
14:17towards this issue of immigration
14:19towards this new vision of opportunity.
14:23And the fact of being in the first place
14:30will serve Madrid a lot to gain a lot more
14:33compared to a certain number of European countries,
14:36especially Germany or Austria,
14:38or the countries in the north, in fact, in Europe.
14:41Concentrate on economic opportunities,
14:45investments and a vision of winning partnerships,
14:50as you just said, Mr. Muath.
14:52You said that Spain wants to invest more economically
14:57on the African continent.
14:59We know that Morocco has a strong economic presence on this continent.
15:03Several Moroccan companies in key sectors
15:07such as telecommunications, insurance, banks.
15:10So a strong presence today,
15:11in any case, of Moroccan companies on the continent.
15:15Could Morocco play this role of bridge
15:20between Spain and the other African countries
15:23in terms of investment, economy,
15:25acceleration and development, precisely, of growth?
15:30A real link, a real link for Madrid
15:35to take advantage of Morocco's economic implementation
15:40on the African continent.
15:42Morocco's economic diplomacy on the African continent
15:46was really propelled by the royal vision of His Majesty the King,
15:51and it is now implemented and profitable
15:56for all of the African brother countries.
15:59And the arrival of Spain,
16:02of this will now to integrate
16:05and develop a little more its economic diplomacy
16:08on the continent,
16:09well, it will actually use Morocco as a real link,
16:13a link of expertise, a link of knowledge.
16:17And then Morocco will also be able to take advantage of this link,
16:22not as a simple bridge of negotiations
16:26between the African country and Madrid,
16:29but to tie, in fact, tripartite signatures,
16:33which will also allow the Moroccan economy
16:37to benefit from this multidimensional implementation
16:41of the Spanish economy.
16:43This Spanish economy, in addition,
16:44is in a real desire to diversify its economy.
16:49Very, for the moment, still dependent on agriculture
16:53and maritime resources.
16:55So, the momentum is perfect for Rabat
16:59to take advantage of this multidimensional aspect
17:03for the African continent and also for its Spanish neighbor.
17:07We will stay on this multidimensional aspect with you, Mr. Moït.
17:11You said, precisely, a cooperation in several areas,
17:15security, migratory, economic, but also sporting,
17:18with the World Cup 2030 coming up.
17:22What are the challenges of this World Cup for Africa,
17:24in particular economic challenges?
17:28Well, I think that this strategic opportunity
17:31offers a lot of opportunities,
17:35whether for the three countries,
17:37namely Morocco, Spain and Portugal,
17:39but also for the two continents.
17:42Why? Because Morocco,
17:46and today, as you can see,
17:47is growing economically.
17:49It is an open-air construction site.
17:51We know this very well.
17:53And also, in fact,
17:56several companies that are present
17:59could take advantage of this,
18:01especially with these strategic indices that have been raised.
18:05This will allow several,
18:07whether Spanish, African or European companies,
18:11to invest and help,
18:15whether it is the African continent, Morocco or the European countries,
18:18or the two European countries,
18:20to boost their economies.
18:23I think that the strategic challenges at this level
18:28are not limited to major economic downturns,
18:33but also to what is called the tourist dimension,
18:35the dimension of investments,
18:37infrastructure and infrastructure,
18:39but also the long-term impact.
18:41The long-term impact is the most important,
18:43in terms of commitment and new cultures
18:47that will become international
18:48at the level of the standards of the Moroccan economy.
18:52And I think that this is an opportunity
18:54to boost the Moroccan economy.
18:56And also, since the Moroccan economy
18:59serves as a model for several African countries,
19:02I think that it is an advantage,
19:03whether for Morocco in the first place,
19:05but also for the African continent.
19:08Mr. Lietihoui, the World Organization,
19:10therefore by Morocco, Spain and Portugal,
19:14what is symbolic today?
19:16And can we talk about this event
19:20as a lever of economic development
19:22for the entire continent?
19:25A huge lever of development.
19:272030 will set up a new decade.
19:302030 is also the World Cup of the Century.
19:33And 2030 will be the first World Cup
19:36to be held on two continents at the same time.
19:40This shows that Morocco is a real platform,
19:44is a real link between the African continent
19:48and the European continent.
19:50The metaphor of His Majesty King Sande,
19:54speaking of Morocco as a tree with its leaves,
19:57which goes all the way to Europe
20:00is a real materialization
20:03with this World Cup.
20:04And the lever of development is huge,
20:06because, for example, in 2024,
20:08there are already 360 Spanish companies,
20:11for example, who made the strategic decision
20:14to settle in the kingdom,
20:15which allowed Spain
20:18to take advantage of a lower labor cost,
20:21which is a reduction of 40%
20:24compared to the Spanish market.
20:26And the World Cup will allow
20:28to diversify this installation
20:31of Spanish and European companies,
20:34because the World Cup will be able to benefit
20:38from a development and a huge lever of development
20:40for tourism.
20:42Morocco will soon reach 16 million tourists
20:45only for the year 2024.
20:48The ambition is huge for 2030.
20:51The figures will be much greater.
20:53And so a well-institutionalized tourism economy,
20:57a well-institutionalized sport economy,
21:02and then an economy also revolving around
21:05all the green ecological practices,
21:08where Morocco is also a model of development,
21:11will then be able to make a stream
21:14for the entire African continent.
21:16So really, this World Cup is not just a competition
21:20that will take place for a month and a half,
21:22but a real development issue
21:24for the new decade of Morocco,
21:26and then the new Morocco,
21:28which will then settle with a horizon until 2050.
21:31An economy of sport that will therefore benefit
21:34the entire continent, the African continent.
21:38You said it, Mr. Yesi,
21:39yes, 300 companies have recently settled in Morocco.
21:44So there is an exchange today,
21:46of know-how, of practice,
21:47a sharing of knowledge between the two countries.
21:51Morocco is the first non-European partner of Spain.
21:55Mr. Moët, you said just when we talk about this dynamic
21:58and this cooperation between the two countries,
22:00what makes the success of this partnership
22:03between Morocco and Spain?
22:06I first think that these historical links
22:08between the two countries,
22:09in fact, is one of the most important pillars
22:13in what is actually what makes the specialty
22:18or the singularity of this relationship
22:20between Rabat and Madrid.
22:22There are also a number of agreements
22:24that have been signed between the two countries.
22:26There is also what is called this interdependence,
22:28whether cultural, economic, social,
22:32geographical also between the two countries.
22:34I think that this proximity,
22:36this temporality of exchange
22:41that has been built over time between the two countries
22:44actually makes this relationship
22:46a strategic singularity for the two countries.
22:49And I think that the relations today
22:52have reached a certain maturity
22:54to allow these two countries to renew
22:58or to continue to renew their relations
23:01so that they can serve as a model.
23:03To serve as a model not only for the countries
23:05that are in their geostrategic zone,
23:09but also to serve as a model for the two continents.
23:12Why do I say the two continents?
23:13Because we are moving more and more
23:17towards what is called a much stronger
23:19intercontinental connection than the one between the two countries.
23:23And I also think that the European and African leaders
23:27have understood that today,
23:29to achieve this stability,
23:31whether at the security, economic and strategic level,
23:34we must actually join this approach,
23:37this much more global vision
23:39than that really linked only to countries.
23:42And I think that Morocco and Spain have understood
23:46that given their geographical position
23:50and also given their cultural heritage
23:55and their timeless historical exchanges,
23:59have allowed them to understand,
24:01but also to have the time to digest
24:05that the future is in complementarity,
24:08that the future is in cooperation
24:10and not in divergence,
24:12or what we call in this balance of power
24:14between the two countries.
24:16And it is from this perspective that in fact,
24:18the relationship between Rabat and Madrid
24:21constitutes an example,
24:23not only for European and African countries,
24:26but also for the two continents
24:28and also for a set of regions
24:31throughout the world.
24:33Cooperation, co-development,
24:36a global vision that must be long-term,
24:40long-term, Mr. Lietiwy.
24:42To conclude, if we had to talk about the perspectives
24:46of the evolution of Spanish relations
24:48with the African continent.
24:52There are many perspectives
24:54and the perspectives are ambitious.
24:56Spain has understood that its great neighbor,
25:01which is the African continent in its entirety,
25:05is a young continent,
25:07is an ambitious continent
25:09and a continent that is in perpetual movement
25:12and development.
25:13This youth can also be at the service
25:16of the development of Spain and its economy,
25:20also respond to this demographic crisis
25:23with seasonal contracts,
25:25a professional training in very specific trades,
25:28in trades where there is a real crisis
25:32at the level of employment.
25:34And so, Spain will also benefit from this installation
25:38of its expertise and professional training
25:43and its concern for youth,
25:45to then diversify its economic diplomacy
25:48and truly settle as a diplomatic power
25:52on the African continent,
25:55alongside its French neighbor,
25:57alongside the United States,
25:59China or Turkey.
26:01Thank you, Mr. Yassine Lietiwy.
26:03I remind you that you are the Secretary-General
26:05of Nege Morocco.
26:06It was a pleasure to have you with us.
26:11Thank you, Mr. Hicham Ouadziadid.
26:13You are an expert in strategic policy.
26:16Thank you for being with us.
26:18Thank you for the invitation.
26:20This is the end of the Q&A for tonight.
26:22Thank you for your loyalty.