President of Montenegro said he 'believes every nation has its right to choose its future' and that Ukraine would eventually become a NATO member.
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00:00Montenegro has been a NATO member since 2017 and pays just over 2% of its GDP on defence.
00:14Its path to joining the EU is also well underway.
00:17It hopes to be the 28th member state by 2028.
00:21But there are many reforms that are still outstanding, such as independence of the judiciary
00:25and freedom of the press.
00:27For the Europe Conversation, I catch up with its president, Yakov Milatovich, and I asked
00:32him about these reforms.
00:36So President Milatovich, your country has been waiting 12 years in the wings as a candidate
00:41country starting negotiations for accession.
00:44The idea is you're becoming an EU member by 2028.
00:47Is that practical or is that a reality still?
00:51So when I became the president of the country last year, I was selected by the people on
00:56a very clear EU agenda.
00:58We have set an ambitious goal, indeed, but I believe still a realistic one.
01:05And this is about Montenegro becoming the 28th member state of the EU as of 2028.
01:11I believe that what has been good news is that there is a new momentum in Brussels,
01:19also in the other capitals of the member states, about the enlargement.
01:23I believe that the whole situation about the enlargement really changed in 2022, following
01:31the Russian invasion of Ukraine, where also Europe, the EU, understood that the enlargement
01:39policy is also about the security of the European continent.
01:42Because if you look at some of the outstanding issues, because as you mentioned there, it
01:45is merit-based and there's a huge focus on rule of law, and some of the outstanding issues
01:50are the independence of the judicial system, freedom of expression, press freedom and corruption.
01:56So there are some of the pillars.
01:57But if you look at, for example, press freedom, there are concerns on what has been described
02:02as a hostile environment for investigative reporting, from reporters without borders,
02:07that there's self-censorship and often political pressure applied to journalists.
02:11And that hasn't evolved much over the last couple of years.
02:15Well, there are challenges.
02:19If there are no challenges, we would already be the part of the EU.
02:24But this is why I truly see the EU accession process as a key anchor, which constantly
02:32reminds the policymakers about the reform agenda.
02:36And this is all about rule of law, about good governance, about economic development, about
02:45public administration reform, about the media environment.
02:47I believe that ever since I became the president, I was very clear that, for me, the EU accession
02:56is indeed about reforms, not only about trying to get some EU funding for different infrastructure
03:03projects.
03:04That's important.
03:05But I believe what is even more important is to be able to use the process as a transformative
03:14way for your country, which would ultimately benefit to the people.
03:18Because we all want to live in a society where there is a clear rule of law, where there
03:24is a clear good governance, where there is zero corruption.
03:27And do you believe that, from a cultural perspective, there is an effort to ensure that journalists
03:33are allowed to practice without fear or favor or intimidation?
03:37There are challenges still.
03:39There are cases from the past about the attacks on the journalists that still have not been
03:45fully brought to an end.
03:50Whenever I speak, and I have recently spoke at a very important conference on the media
03:55environment in Southeast Europe that was hosted by Montenegro, those are exactly the points
04:01that I have focused on.
04:03I believe that the fundamental of democratic development is a free media environment, competitive
04:11media environment, freedom of speech.
04:15And this is really a crucial part also of my public endeavors.
04:24We have made progress.
04:26Unfortunately, certain setbacks have happened as well, especially when it comes to independence
04:33of our public broadcaster.
04:37I think that that's something that needs to be corrected in the future in terms of editorial
04:46independence.
04:47And then also corruption is one of the areas that you have actually increased in terms
04:51of improvement when it comes to Transparency International.
04:55But there are still concerns around criminal corruption, corruption within politics, and
05:01also smaller things like petty bribery and so on.
05:04Is that an area that you're heavily focused on?
05:07Absolutely.
05:08And when I also became the president, I was very clear about the policy that I'm pursuing,
05:19and that's the policy of zero corruption.
05:21I believe fundamentally that's the basis for economic development.
05:28Over the many past years, and this is exactly what we are now realizing, many of the people
05:36within our judiciary system who were appointed to fight corruption and organized crime on
05:42behalf of the people of Montenegro were actually part of organized crime and corruption.
05:48Now many of them are being processed.
05:51So there is a clear progress, especially within our prosecution, now also within our
05:58court system.
05:59So the things are moving in the right direction.
06:02You know, you mentioned there enlargement as very important in terms of security for
06:05the whole of Europe.
06:07When Montenegro had high levels of Russian interference, it was around foreign policy
06:11decisions about becoming a member of NATO, independence, and probably you will see some
06:17interference.
06:18Are you concerned about that, or what can the country do to try to defend itself from
06:22interference?
06:23I believe that a very important decision that Montenegro has made in the past was becoming
06:28the member of NATO.
06:30In 2017, Montenegro became a member of NATO alliance, and that really made Montenegro
06:40more secure, more protected, and more resilient when it comes to the threats from the third
06:48countries.
06:49Definitely, you know, that over the past few years, NATO and other NATO members helped
06:57Montenegro to make sure that the whole system becomes more resilient.
07:02I think that the challenges were the biggest within the cyber space.
07:08The country was faced with a number of cyber attacks, public administration as well.
07:15However, the efforts that we have put together with some of the countries from the EU as
07:21well as from NATO made the whole country more resilient now.
07:28It's always about the joint effort, but being part of a collective security defense mechanism
07:36such as NATO, and naturally pursuing the same foreign security policy as the one of
07:45the EU, it all makes a lot of help.
07:48It's interesting you make that point.
07:50What would you say to countries like Russia, for example, sometimes you hear it in Serbia
07:54that the reason for the war in Ukraine is because of NATO enlargement encroaching into
07:59Russia.
08:00What would you say to that argument?
08:02I mean, you know, from the very day one, you know that Montenegro has supported the choice
08:09of the Ukrainian people when it comes to their Euro-Atlantic future.
08:14I believe that every nation has its right to choose its future.
08:19I believe that Montenegro's NATO membership back in 2017 was good for Montenegro, but
08:26also was good for the region, the wider region of the Western Balkans, which also had its
08:33own challenges in the past.
08:35I believe that Montenegro's NATO membership strengthened the stability of the region,
08:41and now Montenegro is also perceived by many as a credible NATO member.
08:48So in that regard, our position is very clear.
08:52What's your own interpretation of President Zelensky's victory plan?
08:56Do you believe that Ukraine should be offered a path to membership, a formal path to membership,
09:02more than the indestructible bridge, in order to have a strong position to end this war?
09:08You know, I was very happy to attend the peace summit in Switzerland, which was held a few
09:17months ago.
09:18I believe that was the right step in the right direction.
09:23Many of the world nations were there as well, supporting the peace plan of President Zelensky.
09:31I think that the position of Montenegro was also very clear when we supported the NATO
09:38decision last year to elevate the relationship with Ukraine from the formal level that we
09:47had, which was the commission between NATO and Ukraine, to the more strategic relationship
09:56that we currently have.
09:57But do you believe that Ukraine should be – President Zelensky is calling for a formal
10:03invitation as part of the victory plan.
10:05Do you support that?
10:07This is definitely going to be sort of among some important discussions that are going
10:12to be held between the current NATO members, especially ahead of the next summit in The
10:19Hague.
10:20I believe that NATO has been very supportive to Ukraine over the last very challenging
10:31period.
10:32Now you know that we also have launched the so-called NATO mechanism for support of Ukraine.
10:40So there are all very important steps when it comes to the just peace in Ukraine, which
10:48is ultimately what the goal is.
10:51So you would support, I suppose, if it's on the table, a membership?
10:55Well, you know, I said it's going to be part of the discussion.
10:59OK.
11:00Just a final question before I let you go, because we know that in the call with Donald
11:04Trump and Mark Rutte in relation to NATO, Donald Trump made it clear that Europe has
11:08to do more heavy lifting.
11:10I don't know if in your conversation with Secretary General Rutte, he explained to you
11:15a little bit more about that.
11:16What does it mean Europe needs to do more heavy lifting?
11:19Are we in chartered territories?
11:21Well, I think, you know, ultimately it comes to the spending.
11:24And you know, as the President Trump had already put the focus on it when he was previously
11:31the president, I believe that that's going to be again the focus, which, you know, is
11:37good for resilience of Europe in terms of security, in terms of its own, you know, defence
11:43industry.
11:44And Montenegro is part of the alliance.
11:46So in that regard, I think it's good for Montenegro as well.
11:49OK.
11:50Well, President Milutovic, President of Montenegro, thank you very much for joining us on the
11:53Europe Conversation.
11:54Thank you very much.