Tune in to OneIndia Podcast as we explore BJP's key takeaways from the recent Maharashtra and Jharkhand elections, analyzing voter trends, party strategies, and the path ahead for the 2024 elections. Special podcast with Sudesh verma, Author and former national spokesperson of BJP
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NewsTranscript
00:00The U.S. is most likely to shift its economic base to India because they're not happy with China.
00:04All these things are going to happen, so there are vested interests going to act against India.
00:08And there are vested interests in this country, political vested interests, who pick up these things
00:14to divide our society. The same thing Mr. Rahul Gandhi and company, they've been trying to do.
00:19All the time political parties used to make allegations and when they come to power they'll
00:25So there was a connivance of elite, you know, they would never take action against each other.
00:31Okay, the smaller medians will be tackled and they'll create, it was foxes and you know lions.
00:40Things have changed because Modiji promised he will take action and for the first time
00:44the country is seeing action against the Greek. Could you imagine ever that Chidambaram would go to jail?
00:48Dhani is a businessman, he's a businessman, Dhani is business. If he has done something wrong,
00:54law will take its course. The BJP is not going to help or unnecessarily act against someone
01:00because, you know, something is there in the market. There is law, you know, there is semi,
01:05there are international. Lots of comments are coming back and forth. We can, politically they
01:09can do, but this is irresponsible politics. Namaskar, welcome to One India Podcast. In this
01:15brand new episode, we are going to discuss the fallout, the aftermath of the assembly elections
01:23that happened in Jammu and Kashmir and Haryana in the first leg and then Maharashtra and Jharkhand
01:29in the second leg. Jharkhand, when we talk about, we have a guest from the same state, Sudesh Verma,
01:35but that is not his introduction. His introduction is far beyond that. Coming from Jharkhand,
01:40being the editor of several news channels in Delhi and other parts of the country,
01:45Sudesh ji has been an author for two books on Prime Minister Modi and also he has been the
01:52former national spokesperson of the BJP and a keen political commentator without much ado. Sudesh ji,
02:00welcome to One India Podcast. First things first. Thank you. Thank you, Pankaj. Thank you very much.
02:05Yes, sir. First things first, sir. What happened in Jharkhand for BJP?
02:10You see, in terms of, let's do a realistic analysis. I cannot claim victory when people
02:18have not given us victory. Right. There were fault lines and there used to be a streamline,
02:24one that there was a lot of confusion in the cadre. Last time also, when Dravid Dasji was the
02:31Chief Minister, the cadres did not seem to be motivated enough. So, BJP is a thoroughly
02:38cadre based party in Jharkhand. Okay. Unlike United States, you know, and the cadres has to
02:44be very happy. There seems to be some problem. That is why we needed to expel about 30 candidates
02:51to file their nominations against official candidates. Then, you see, the positive side is
03:00that we have retained our vote percentage, which is close to 33%. Yes, more or less remain the same.
03:08That is a silver lining and that shows that with a little, you know, nut and bolt tightening here
03:15and there, the party will be back and rocking. We have to figure out why out of 28 travel seats,
03:23we have won only one. Lots to look into.
03:27So, this is something which is very serious despite having a strong travel leadership.
03:32I was coming to that only. When I mentioned, Sir, that you also come from Jharkhand,
03:38the voters there are not ordinary voters. They are well aware of their rights for voting rights,
03:43be it the tribal population, be it the urban population in Ranchi, Jamshedpur, Bokaro, Dhanbad.
03:54Did this resonate with the tribal population? Did this resonate with the refugee population
04:00that is there in Jharkhand? You see, there is no barometer to say that
04:05it did not. At the same time, we cannot say it did. But this is our national narrative.
04:11We are talking about Indians that you need to be united because we are facing opposition
04:19everywhere. At the neighborhood, you see, there is a problem. At the level of world,
04:25you see, people are competing. They are not happy. There is emerging as a strong economy.
04:30Now, the US is most likely to shift its economic base to India because they are not happy with
04:35China. All these things are going to happen. So, there are vested interests going to act against
04:39India. And there are vested interests in this country, political vested interests who pick up
04:44these things to divide our society, taking the cue from the British who divided our society and
04:51ruled. If entire India was united, then British should have lived long time back. So, they pitted
04:56one community against the other. The same thing, Mr. Rahul Gandhi and company, they've been trying
05:01to do. Divide India on the basis of caste and religion and try to capture power because they're
05:06very unhappy. They've been out of power and they don't see a silver lining till Modi ji is there
05:12because he's a very strong BJP. There is no chance of Modi ji hanging up his boots like Lee Kuan Yew
05:19of Singapore who stayed in power for such a long time and made Singapore such a strong country,
05:25small tiny country. So, why can't the same happen with Modi ji in India? So, these people are very
05:33unhappy because they cannot survive, you know, without being in power. So, they're doing negative
05:38politics. So, Jharkhand narrative was also the national narrative. But yes, we agree that
05:45in the tribals, we could not do much. We lost many seats. There was a Jairam Mathur factor.
05:52We cut into our votes, at least 17 constituencies because of which, otherwise we would have
05:58gained very handsome seats there. So, the silver lining, yes, the party is going to look into the
06:06factors and apply correctives so that we do much better in Lok Sabha and also in the next assembly.
06:13Sure. Now, the BJP is known to be doing self-checks and self-introspection. They do it
06:20well. Haryana and Maharashtra, two bumper victories. BJP registered.
06:29Expected? Unexpected?
06:32Haryana shows and so shows Maharashtra that a national narrative which is going to come in
06:41times to come and it is for you, political analysts and journalists to analyse that
06:47the country is moving towards a politics that is assimilative, national, above division.
06:56Because in Haryana, if you talk of divisive politics, then BJP should not stand a chance.
07:00The only thing the BJP stood a chance was because of the national narrative. We are for a strong
07:07country. We do not want the society to be divided and we sought vote on development. People say,
07:14this community is not. The old stereotype analysis, when I was a journalist,
07:18they issued the same thing. So, we have to learn the new narrative which Indian voters are trying
07:22to throw. They may have differences for social reasons, for marriage, for other things. But when
07:28it comes to pan-India thinking or pan-state thinking, such divisions cannot work because
07:33there are many castes and there has to be caste alliances, isn't it? And all the parties,
07:38they will take candidates from the caste. They will manage caste contradictions.
07:43So, what is that plus for the BJP? All the parties do that. Let me not say that we don't do
07:48that. We'll do that. The Congress will do that. There's a party will do that. But what is that
07:52that gives rise to the BJP? It is strong nationalism to make India strong, to care for
07:59development. And that is the narrative that you find in Maharashtra, that is the financial capital
08:04of India. Right. So, if caste is such a big issue and knowing for a fact that how it boils down to
08:12each and every caste, their role, as you mentioned in Jharkhand also, the Mahato factor was there,
08:17Jairam Mahato. Why then say no to caste census also? Why not see the real picture?
08:23You see, caste census can, you see, there are fault lines, there's no doubt. And these are
08:30the fault lines used by India and British, to rule over India. And why do you want a caste census
08:40when the society is trying to give justice? Justice in terms of economic justice, social
08:47justice. Okay. You see, we are the parties that created the backward class commission.
08:54We have the largest representation of backward caste and residual caste and residual tribes in
08:58the Lok Sabha. Even in terms of assembly, if you make a nationwide analysis, you'll find that we
09:05are there. Even then we are saying, we have to think about the national narrative. Okay. Social
09:10justice is already being done. Okay. If you say, for example, if you talk of Brahmins,
09:18is there one Brahmin? There are many. Many sects, yes. If every caste starts saying that,
09:25give me a ticket, otherwise I'm not represented. Then how many seats you need in Lok Sabha and
09:32then in Rajasthan, in assemblies? So, there has to be a sense of the entire justice system. Okay.
09:39And justice is being done. So, why unnecessarily go into something that is going to create trouble?
09:46Right. Okay, sir. Well, two victories, stupendous victories, many allegations also, not without,
09:54you know, the voices saying EVMs were tampered, saying the programs that were launched in
10:03Maharashtra, like Ladki Bahen Yojana, was opportunistic, started very late, kept elections
10:10in mind, whether they will deliver or not is a different thing. Then Himanshwaran also tries
10:14the same thing. Then BJP says that it is a wrong and opportunistic thing. Everything is there.
10:19Coming to Delhi, one common factor that comes is the fact of, quote, unquote,
10:25misuse of central agencies. We saw it in case of the voices, in case of Himanshwaran,
10:31coming to Delhi elections next year. How would BJP breach the bastion of Aam Aadmi Party
10:38with the cases of Arvind Kejriwal and the sentiments that are there?
10:42There are two very important issues. One is misuse of central agencies to fix opposition.
10:49There is the criticism. But let us try to understand what is the Modi government s agenda.
10:56The Prime Minister has stressed so many times that he is not going to spare the guilty.
11:02And all the time, political parties used to make allegations and when they come to power,
11:07they will forget it. So, there was a connivance of elite. They will never take action against
11:13each other. The smaller medians will be tackled. It was foxes and lions. Things have changed
11:24because Modi ji promised he will take action. And for the first time, the country is seeing
11:28action against. Could you imagine ever that Chidambaram would go to jail?
11:31But all opposition leaders, sir, Ajit Pawar comes back into MGA fold.
11:36You see, because they were in power and they made reaches out of government coffer. Because
11:44you remember that what happened to Kingfisher. The Prime Minister said that Kingfisher cannot
11:48be allowed to suffer. 50,000 crore was given, just like that. How could you give a loan without
11:54collateral? Is it possible? It's not possible at all. But Mallya should come back also.
12:00He'll come back. You can't escape law. See, when you have violated the law,
12:04you have to bear the results of your own sin. Now action is being taken. Action is being taken
12:12because agencies have been given full freedom to take action. So, that is why you see all the
12:17actions that have been taken, they have not fallen flat. In the court of law, they have been failed.
12:24People are on bail. They have not been, you know, says that, okay, exonerated of the charges.
12:30Still on bail. So, you see, an action is taken, you say the BJP is taking. So, we came with that
12:36agenda. So, when we take action, it's not because of wet data. Because people are not taking action
12:41against those who are innocent or those who have made money in the right way. You were in politics
12:46and you made money. You cannot account for the money you made. So, then naturally, the ED will
12:53go after you. The CBI will inquire whether, you know, security of the country is involved or not.
12:58But people are saying, why? Why targeting the opposition?
13:02Because there is judiciary, you know. If BJP does something wrong, you always have the recourse of
13:07the court. Courts have asserted themselves and they are taking judgment at times that have gone
13:13against the government also, which means that they are very fair. So, if court is finding that, no,
13:18there is a prima facie case against you, you should stay in jail. Why blame Modi ji?
13:23Well, why blame Modi ji? That is something that people are still asking and trying to fathom.
13:31Because when we talk about fair justice and, you know, bringing the culprits back to India,
13:38maybe you talk about Lalit Modi, talk about Nirav Modi or for that matter,
13:43Vijay Mallya, none of them have seen any or shown any sort of coming back to India
13:51approach here by legal means. Let me just interfere here and for the benefit
13:57of your viewers and listeners, let me point out that the law was very weak. We did not have a law
14:06that could lead to extradition of a person. These laws were made under Modi regime.
14:11And internationally, we were being asked, where is the law? You asked for extradition,
14:15but where is the law that if he has done something wrong, what is the law?
14:19The extradition treaty was not there. Not only that, if you say, for example,
14:25if you invest, make property outside, there's no law to confiscate that now we can confiscate.
14:30Now it has been enacted. So the issue is that first you create a system where you can nab them.
14:36These people who have cheated the system, they'll have to come back today or tomorrow because
14:41already in UK court, cases being fought, these people can, they also know that they will have
14:48to go. You see Mallya, we see reports that are saying that I'm ready to give money. It's not a
14:53question of ready to give money. You have cheated the system. And you have to. So you have to face
14:57the consequences. It's not about money. It's about your power to cheat the system.
15:02Co-navigance with whoever they are, who are working with you.
15:05We heard Lalit Modi also talking about giving out some shares of the IPL franchisee.
15:12Not about money per se. This is not about money per se. People should,
15:16because for recovering 64 crore rupees of Bofors scam, a lot many more money was spent.
15:22Why the government does this? It's not for money. People confuse in that way.
15:26It's to make people accountable so that others cannot cheat the system.
15:30Now you cannot take loan from the bank unless you give adequate collateral. Why these people,
15:37you just because of telephone by certain leaders influencing the Congress that you would,
15:40the MD of the bank will give the loan and then the loan will get into default.
15:45Right. Let's hope that the banks also put that kind of deterrence and not fall prey to this.
15:52Two quick questions. First, how about this whole Adani issue that is roughing the parliament?
15:59Where does it stand? How does the BJP look at it? BJP cannot defend it also as a party,
16:05but the Congress is cornering them. What are the BJP coming to picture?
16:11BJP is not running Adani. Adani is a businessman. He's a businessman running his business.
16:16If he has done something wrong, law will take its course. The BJP is not going to help or
16:22unnecessarily act against someone because, you know, something is there in the market.
16:27There is law, you know, there is semi, there are international.
16:31Lots of comments are coming back and forth.
16:33We can, politically they can do, but this is irresponsible politics.
16:37If a businessman makes money, how do you blame the BJP for that? If the businessman makes money
16:44and has done something wrong, I'm not saying Adani has done, but if he has done something wrong.
16:47But likewise in the Congress regime, it is being blamed that all the Lalit Modi's and Nirav Modi's
16:52and Mallya's took money and they left. No, they were looking the other way when they left.
16:56They had enough indications. So, they did not put the red corner notice so that they could be
17:01nabbed at the airport. Okay.
17:04They left because of that, because the enough precaution was not taken and things were happening
17:08under their nose. They connived and they allowed it to happen. So, that is why the two are
17:13completely different cases. You see, let me give you an example. If you're sitting in a big power
17:18plant, what do you do? Will you set up? Will I set up? There is an open tendering. He was
17:24Adani qualifies in that or Amani qualifies in that or Tata qualifies in that. They are the
17:29people who can invest. So, what are the ways? Either the government invests, government doesn't
17:34have money, government has to spend. Yes, yes.
17:36Government of our policy, BJP's policy, which is very liberal economy, we say that the government
17:41should withdraw from business. Is it that? So, who will do? Private sectors, strong private
17:48sectors. If they are… Who gets the contract?
17:51But they are getting through open bidding, no?
17:54If you can't establish that rules were manipulated to give them…
17:58That's what calls for probe also. We just hope that Adani doesn't become, you know,
18:0510 years, 15 years down the line a case of Neeraj Modi or Lalit Modi or Madhya.
18:09Very true. A lot of investors are there who will suffer. We are aware of that. The investor's
18:15interest is primary and we hope that the business houses under allegation, under cloud, they have
18:23to come up clean. They have to come up clean, definitely, sir. One final question. Who is
18:27going to be the Chief Minister of Maharashtra? I'm also waiting for that. But in politics,
18:32let me tell you, this may give you a cue that all who are players, they are aware of the ground
18:39reality. Okay.
18:41Because we may assume, you know, factors, but those who are taking decisions, they are aware
18:47of what the reality is and what is right and what is wrong. So, if wrong decision is taken
18:54because of some pressure from somewhere, then it will lead, you know, lay the seeds for further
19:01discomfort. Right.
19:02So, the right decision has to be taken and everybody will agree to the right decision.
19:05Right decision is Fadnavis being the Chief Minister.
19:08I don't know. Maybe. Who knows? Because who knows there is a dark horse. Who knows who is going to
19:15be the next Chief Minister of Maharashtra? But it's sure that it will be an Indi candidate.
19:19An Indi candidate, yes. Mahayati.
19:22Yes.
19:22Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. Thank you. Thank you, Sudeji. Always a pleasure to speak to you.
19:27We would love to host you more on issues which are dominating, not just the week,
19:34the month, maybe the hour also. As we speak, there are lots of churning going on
19:39within the Mahayati Alliance and what Eknath Shinde is planning, what
19:44Devendra Fadnavis is proposing. All that is boiling down and we hope that we
19:49very soon get a Chief Minister.
19:50Thank you. Nice to talk to you. Thank you.
19:52Thank you for watching this first episode of One India Podcast. Stay tuned for more.