Faith and Justice: Sadgun, Alex and Chris examine the role of faith and spirituality in politics, protest and the justice system.
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00:00Hi, I'm Dr. Chris Deasy.
00:02And I'm Alex.
00:03I'm an expert in the study of religion.
00:05And I'm a high school student.
00:07And we're here to ask questions like,
00:09where does faith and religion come from?
00:11Why do people believe in a higher power?
00:13And why do a lot of people have no religion?
00:16Spirituality, science, conflict.
00:18Society and life after death.
00:20We'll be exploring all of this in...
00:22Generation Y!
00:30INTRO MUSIC
00:46In this episode, we'll be exploring how religion impacts social change and justice.
00:51But first, let's look at some of the laws and rights we have here in the UK.
00:56Laws interact with our everyday life,
00:58and we also have rights like freedom of speech or the right to education.
01:02The Equality Act, for example, was an important law introduced in 2010,
01:08which protects us against discrimination.
01:11Life-altering world events can change attitudes in society too.
01:16For example, COVID-19, Brexit, war, migration, politics.
01:21And with this, social media can amplify voices, which is a good and bad thing.
01:27Protesting is actually another legal right we have in the UK.
01:31They've been a part of the Black Lives Matter movement,
01:34which highlights discrimination and racial inequality.
01:37Hashtag MeToo was also a movement that led to protests for women's rights
01:41and safety against sexual harassment and violence.
01:44And you're never too young to make a difference.
01:47Activist Malala Yousafzai won a Nobel Peace Prize at 17.
01:50She fights for every child to be able to receive an education.
01:53And Greta Thunberg is calling governments and big corporations
01:57to act against climate change.
01:59Religion impacts society's progress in so many ways.
02:03And Sandgon went to Canterbury to talk more about religion
02:06and the topics that affect our society.
02:12So, to start off, women in my religion are respected very highly,
02:16and we also worship several women deities.
02:19And we also think men and women are equal.
02:22There's no difference between them.
02:24So, what are your opinions? Do you think religion treats women and men equally?
02:28Islam empowers women's rights.
02:30And when you look at the history of it, it's done a lot for women's rights.
02:33But I'm from Swat Valley, Pakistan.
02:36The teachings of Islam were misinterpreted by the Taliban,
02:40which was used to oppress women, ban girls' school education,
02:44which is against Islam.
02:46My sister says this beautiful line that we can't prosper as a society
02:51if we are holding half of us back.
02:53So, what do you think about women being leaders in society?
02:56I was 14 years old when I first felt a call to ministry.
03:01But my church and the people around me said,
03:04you're a girl, we don't have women in leadership.
03:08I didn't believe them, however.
03:10I kept pushing and pressing.
03:12Within the church of which I am a part,
03:15there are still men and some women who think that because I'm a woman,
03:21they will not have me as their leader.
03:25So, why do you think women do not lead prayers in some religion?
03:29In Islam, no.
03:31Women cannot lead the prayers with men behind them.
03:35However, a lot of the Islamic education that came cascaded down
03:39came from a woman.
03:42Women in Islam, while they're having their periods, cannot pray.
03:47And I'm curious as to why that is.
03:53A period is a normal and natural thing for a woman.
03:57So, there's clearly some cultural issues around a woman having her period,
04:04why she is deemed unclean.
04:07So, is that what lies behind that?
04:11But they don't have to keep fast either, so it does...
04:14Exceptions.
04:15Exceptions, yes.
04:16They get a lot of exemptions.
04:18Yes, so women don't have to actually fast.
04:20That makes common sense, but I won't push because I take fully
04:24and respect the point that you have made.
04:26And another thing is sexuality.
04:29So, what is religion's view on that?
04:31Within Christianity, there are so many views around it.
04:37Because I believe that we're all created in God's image,
04:41then I have to ask the question,
04:43who am I to tell you or you or you
04:48that you can't be who God has created you to be?
04:53Love for me doesn't have a language, it does not have a sex,
04:56it does not have a nationality, so who am I to judge?
05:01I think this is a personal thing that's up to them.
05:05Informing them about homosexuality when they are 5 and 6 years old,
05:10I'm against that.
05:12If they become turned up, you know, once they become teenagers,
05:16that's their choice.
05:18I think I would challenge the view as to whether or not
05:22someone wakes up one day and decides they're going to choose
05:26to be gay or straight.
05:28But in Islam, it's very, very clear for us in our religion
05:32that you will never find a mosque leader or a clergy person
05:37or Muslim clergy person who will come and say,
05:40authorise same-sex marriage.
05:43How does religion have a positive and also a negative effect
05:46in the modern society?
05:48Islam, Christianity has done a lot for that.
05:50Some of the most charitable works are done by religion.
05:53If we begin to see it as a set of rules that we have to follow
05:57or else, you know, then I think that can be,
06:01certainly for me anyway, I think that that can be destructive.
06:05I think the most important thing is avoid extremism.
06:13In 2019, Northern Ireland joined the rest of the UK
06:17and legally recognised same-sex marriage
06:19and the legal right to an abortion.
06:21Sadqan and I went to an International Women's Day rally in Belfast
06:25and spoke to the people about what they think of religion
06:28and law in their country.
06:31We spoke to a group of young people at charity Common Youth
06:35about the topics affecting those growing up in Belfast today.
06:39No!
06:41Do you think abortion can be a very taboo topic,
06:45especially in religions?
06:47Never talked to anyone from my church about abortion, ever.
06:51Yeah, it can be a really scary thing to talk about.
06:54My personal kind of religious beliefs were lost
06:59when they didn't line up with kind of the ethical side of things.
07:04Growing up trans, growing up queer, was kind of a nightmare.
07:09I was in the room when the Presbyterian church
07:13banned communion for gay people,
07:16which was kind of terrifying as a 13-year-old,
07:19knowing this is what my church thinks about me.
07:23I can't stay here. They won't have me.
07:26So I sort of had to go out on my own.
07:29Yeah, I have a friend, actually, that she fell pregnant young
07:33and wasn't sure what to do and just needed support.
07:36And it actually turned out that she went to move out
07:40with her older sister to keep her baby
07:43because her own parents wouldn't let her in the house.
07:46Really strong Catholic family, that's how they viewed things.
07:53CROWD CHANTING
08:00More International Women's Day is for all women.
08:06We're here to show support for women, because women are great.
08:09And what do you think are the main topics affecting women today?
08:13Rights and inclusion and empowerment of everyone.
08:17One of the main things would be women's safety.
08:19Especially at night time, like walking home and things.
08:21For me, it would be around domestic violence, sexual abuse.
08:24Why is everyone standing behind us?
08:26Everybody's standing here in support and solidarity.
08:29My sister, Natalie McNally, she was murdered last December.
08:33Here to demand justice, obviously, for Natalie
08:36and an end to misogyny and violence against women.
08:39I come every year. I'm, like, a big, massive feminist.
08:42And this is the first time bringing Moose as well. He loves women.
08:45I can tell by the sight. Yeah!
08:47We all need to show our support.
08:50Rallies like this that fought for abortion
08:52and fought for marriage equality that passed in 2019,
08:55this is the spaces where those movements begin.
08:58After hearing from the crowds, we spoke to Kelly Turtle,
09:01founder of Faith Voices for Reproductive Justice.
09:04I have a responsibility to work with other Christians
09:07to show that there's a different religious perspective on abortion.
09:11But there's so many women in churches all over this country
09:15who've had abortions.
09:17Then in 2015, I became one of those women
09:20because I myself travelled England and had an abortion.
09:23I mean, it made me really angry, to be honest.
09:25The fact that I was a criminal while I was on this island,
09:29but by travelling across the Irish Sea, I wasn't a criminal.
09:32Some of our members are ordained ministers,
09:35Presbyterian ministers, Church of Ireland ministers,
09:38and they genuinely feared for their jobs.
09:40It will never change until more of us speak out,
09:43yet it's really hard for people to speak out in the current environment.
09:55Something else that's really interesting is religion's role in marriage.
09:59A lot of people see it as a legal union rather than a religious ceremony.
10:03Well, I met with a couple focusing on Scottish traditions at their wedding.
10:08What we're going to do is called handfasting.
10:11Handfasting, so just after your vows, each of us will have a ribbon
10:16and we kind of just tie the knot together, tie an actual knot.
10:21Same-sex marriage, Lauren, it came in 2013.
10:24So how was that moment?
10:26It was probably the first time that I actually thought,
10:29oh, yeah, I can get married one day.
10:31Because before, I never entertained the thought.
10:34It was great.
10:35I felt like I was, you know, I could actually be treated equally.
10:39Normal things like sitting in a restaurant or something,
10:42you know, people have been staring, we've had comments, side comments,
10:47people coming up to us and saying, you know, not very nice things.
10:52So there are some areas where we're still a bit cautious
10:56about being openly gay as a couple.
10:59You're told from a very young age
11:03that the stereotypical great life is to go to university,
11:08get married to a man.
11:10That's not what the world is anymore.
11:12No. I had to get educated, especially when my brother came out.
11:15Because at the time, when he was female,
11:17I just thought he was either gay or bisexual.
11:20He came out trans and I was like, oh, you never stop learning.
11:23You learn every day.
11:25So do you have any last words on marriage?
11:27My father was married twice, divorced twice,
11:30so it probably kind of gave me a negative opinion on marriage.
11:33And then I met Kayleigh and I was like, right, she's the one.
11:37Yeah, I just see marriage as a celebration of love.
11:43It was lovely talking to Kayleigh and Sharni about growing up
11:47and what marriage means to them now.
11:49And we'll talk more about the topics we've been learning about
11:52in our group chat.
11:53See you then.
12:01Welcome back to Generation Y.
12:04In this episode's group chat, we went to Tower Cross Academy in Birmingham.
12:08I spoke to an expert in religion, Rhiannon, who's a Quaker.
12:11Jay, who we met in Belfast.
12:13Rabbi Lev.
12:14And Dawn, who's an expert in religion and gender.
12:17Sadgun got some really interesting questions from the audience
12:20and I spoke to students Sadie, Faree, David and Maile.
12:25There's a clear relationship between religion
12:29and questions around social change, whether religion might be stopping
12:34or is a barrier to that social change from happening?
12:38Yeah, I think there can be lots of different relationships
12:41between religion and the law.
12:43Would you be able, Rhiannon, just to say a little bit
12:45about what Quakerism is?
12:47Quakerism is a tradition that has its roots in Christianity.
12:52But Quakerism in Britain, at least, has diversified
12:56and Quakers now might be Christian, they might be Quaker and pagan
13:01or Quaker and Jewish.
13:03They might be atheist or agnostic or questioning.
13:07And I think, Jay, in your case, you define yourself
13:10as somebody who is a believer, but the very sort of faith
13:14has a lot of people in it who make that really difficult for you.
13:19Yeah, my mum's very close to the church and we argue a lot
13:22about why I can't just go to church like everyone else on a Sunday
13:27and I just don't feel safe in a congregation.
13:30There's a lot of stigma in the church about people like me
13:36and people who face hardship and it's really rough just seeing that.
13:42Synagogues for me has been one of the most welcoming places.
13:45A lot of the battles within Judaism over the role of women
13:50and the role of LGBT people were fought often before I was born.
13:54Is it religion that's the problem?
13:56Or is the problem the way that religion has been hijacked
13:59or used by particular interest groups?
14:02God is not at the forefront of the law in Northern Ireland.
14:05Is it about changing people's mindsets?
14:07I was struck watching the video to realise that for the entire time
14:12that I was in school there was a law in place called Section 28
14:16which said that it was illegal for teachers to present homosexuality
14:22as an acceptable alternative lifestyle.
14:24I have friends who have been through conversion therapy,
14:28which is a really nasty form of trying to convince people,
14:32to convince gay people that they can be made straight
14:35by almost bullying them by using religion.
14:40When we learn about religion it's about being critical and thinking,
14:43well, what does this mean? Where does this come from?
14:46And who is telling this story in ways that might benefit some
14:50and disadvantage others?
14:51It's embedded in our culture, it's embedded in our politics.
14:55Hi, please tell me your name, age and the question for the panel today.
14:58Leonie Sadiq, I'm 13.
15:00Do you believe that conflict in regards to religion
15:04will have an impact on the upcoming generations?
15:07The words go hand in hand.
15:0925 years ago, having a group of,
15:14like an integrated group of Protestant and Catholic children together
15:19could still be dangerous, but on the whole,
15:24I think things are getting better and I have a lot of hope for the future.
15:27My name's Farah Cherry, I'm 13.
15:29And how can religion be a force for good?
15:31I think we're seeing it now with the climate crisis.
15:35And if we look a bit further back to something like the campaign
15:38for the abolition of slavery,
15:40people who had personal experience of enslavement
15:44were able to speak out and they were supported and joined by Quakers,
15:49but also people from other Christian groups, other religious groups.
15:52Dr Martin Luther King was a Christian reverend
15:55and his right-hand man was a rabbi called Abraham Joshua Heschel.
15:59Recently, not far from me,
16:01there was a child called Child Q
16:04who was effectively sexually harassed by police while she was at school
16:09and the entire place was filled up, really, with school students
16:13and with the churches, synagogues and mosques
16:15campaigning for meaningful change.
16:18My name is David Adesaya and I'm 14 years old.
16:20I wanted to say this LGBTQ really confused
16:25the younger generations in their preferences.
16:29When we meet somebody who's different to us,
16:31especially if they're different in a way we've never seen before,
16:34we say,
16:37That means, how many different types of creations have you made, God?
16:41The Creator has made us all different and diverse on purpose.
16:46And if that's confusing, good,
16:48we're supposed to celebrate it and marvel at it.
16:51I love that.
16:53It can be confusing for queer kids,
16:57growing up not knowing that you have another option
17:01that is to be not straight or not cis.
17:05If you think about the way in which some of the early scriptures in Genesis
17:11talk about God created man and talk about how God created woman,
17:15we sort of know that's not right anymore.
17:17That's factually incorrect.
17:19And it has been forever.
17:21There has always been diversity and fluidity,
17:23but we have inherited a really fixed idea about what that means.
17:27My name's Jack Reynolds. I'm 14.
17:29And would you change religion to be accepted?
17:32People do reinterpret religion
17:35and actually create new forms of religion,
17:38new forms of ritual, new forms of scripture, new forms of teaching.
17:41I might leave my religion
17:43if the religious community I belong to wasn't accepting
17:49or if I felt that they were deliberately excluding people
17:54who I thought should be included.
17:56And I think everyone should be included in my religious tradition.
17:59Surprisingly, I disagree with you on that.
18:01I would think of it as a duty to be part of remaining in
18:05and staying and fighting to make sure that others have that place within it.
18:09Even if I change my religious expression, that's what's kept me going,
18:12even though I haven't been part of a church.
18:14Do you have any grounds,
18:16through listening to what some of the other panellists are saying, to be hopeful?
18:19I'm very happy to hear that people still do have good experiences with religion.
18:25I hope that in the future that is everyone's experience,
18:29that no one feels hurt or oppressed or marginalised.
18:34It is very much the loss of your community rather than you.
18:38And I sincerely hope that for queer people,
18:43so much is taken away from us,
18:45that you don't end up having God taken away from you too.
18:50Sex education and things like LGBTQ rights,
18:54what do you think about the way that it's taught in school?
18:58In this school, personally, it's taught very well.
19:02It's very thought out.
19:03We're taught to not judge and support people in everything they do,
19:08whether they like boys or whether they like girls.
19:11Or whether they're questioning their own gender.
19:14What do you guys think is a significant event in history that has changed or shaped you?
19:20The suffragettes, where they were busy marching for women's rights to vote.
19:25I believe that women are very important in today's society
19:30and they have every right to have the same rights that we men do in society as well.
19:35Religion is modernising to accept more variety of people
19:39and coming together and supporting the same religion as...
19:45What is your religion?
19:46Christianity.
19:48Do you guys think that religion can have a big effect on law?
19:53I think it does because everybody might have different beliefs of like
19:57what it's going to cause or what may happen furthermore
20:01and how it will be resolved and stuff.
20:03So what do you guys think is your favourite thing about Birmingham?
20:08The diversity, like there's many people living in one place.
20:12Diversity in how you find different people and people that you can blend with,
20:16people that can relate to you.
20:18What you believe in is always accepted,
20:21whether other people don't agree with it, they always accept it.
20:25What would you say is the most challenging thing about living in Birmingham?
20:30I think the level of acceptance people give.
20:33For example, if you're in a school environment
20:36and one person believes in another thing and another person disagrees with it,
20:40a lot of people go against them because they think
20:43if I agree with this person then it's more of wanting to be liked by another person
20:48so you go against a different person just to be liked by someone else.
20:51In society, and especially in Birmingham as well, in your community,
20:55do you think religion can sometimes affect how people act?
21:00I feel like religion helps shape the type of person you are.
21:05Sometimes they shape you to something that you don't want to be
21:09and you choose another religion that you agree with.
21:12Talking about what we saw today in the episode,
21:15can one of you tell me about what you learnt from it?
21:18I learnt that it's always good to accept people,
21:22even if you don't agree with what they're saying or anything, just take it in mind.
21:26I think that it's a good thing to keep in mind,
21:29you don't know what people are going through or why they're doing something
21:32or how they got there, so just be accepting of them,
21:35or at least keep it to yourself instead of forcing your opinion onto someone else.
21:40Do you think people your age should be talking about these issues openly?
21:45Certain ones, but not obviously all of them, of course.
21:48You can obviously change people's opinions,
21:50but not forcing them to think another thing just because you think that.
21:55Do you think that religion can also have a positive effect on society?
21:59I think yes, because it brings people together,
22:02because in my religion there's a holy month and then after that
22:06there's a celebration called Eid and people come together
22:09and they do celebrations together.
22:11I feel like religion is definitely good in some parts,
22:15it helps support people and helps them in whatever they choose.
22:21I think celebrating brings us all together,
22:24even if we don't celebrate the same things,
22:26you can always talk about it and accept each other.
22:29In my opinion as well, going to the Women's Rally also gave me an insight
22:34on my religion and how my religion plays a role in women's rights.
22:40What do you guys think it's like being a woman in 2023?
22:44You get to see how people fought for where we are now
22:47and now you can see the outcome and how it resolved over time.
22:51What do you think will change in the future?
22:54I think a lot more things will be accepted than they are now and in the past.
22:59I feel like over the upcoming years there's going to be new opportunities
23:03for people to experience new things.
23:11That was a really powerful conversation.
23:13It was and hearing about everyone's experiences was really inspiring.
23:18But that's all we have time for, so join us next time on Generation Y.
23:54GenerationY.org