Afghan women are now forbidden from praying loudly or reciting the Koran in front of other women, according to a Taliban government minister. It's the latest restriction on women following laws that ban them from raising their voices and showing their faces outside the home. FRANCE 24's Sharon Gaffney speaks to former Afghan minister Nargis Nehan. She says that women's rights in Afghanistan are a universal issue, not an internal problem of the country.
Visit our website:
http://www.france24.com
Like us on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English
Follow us on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/France24_en
Visit our website:
http://www.france24.com
Like us on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English
Follow us on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/France24_en
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Welcome to Apropos, well it's the latest restriction being imposed on women in Afghanistan.
00:08After being banned from speaking in public, they're now being forbidden from praying loudly
00:13or reciting the Quran in front of other women.
00:16They're already excluded from secondary school education, many public spaces and most jobs.
00:22Their plight is being highlighted at a new exhibition here in Paris as Emily Boyle explains.
00:2914-year-old Muska is soon to be married.
00:34In exchange, her family will receive a water well and some solar panels.
00:40Muska's portrait is just one of hundreds hanging from the walls of this new exhibition in Paris.
00:45The photographs are part of No Woman's Land, a project which casts a light onto the daily
00:50lives of women in Afghanistan, now mostly restricted to the shadows.
00:58All the photos of women that you're going to see were taken indoors.
01:02Women can no longer exist in the public space and no longer have access to other venues.
01:07So they can no longer go to cafes or restaurants, to the gym, to parks, to swimming pools, to
01:12beauty salons.
01:15Since the Taliban returned to power in 2021, women have been almost completely confined
01:21to their homes.
01:22In August this year, women were even banned from showing their faces or speaking in public.
01:28Now they are no longer allowed to pray in front of each other.
01:32The United Nations has accused the Taliban government of gender apartheid and potential
01:37crimes against humanity.
01:39We cannot leave Afghan women to fight alone.
01:43If we do, we have no moral ground to fight for women's rights anywhere else.
01:50Their fate determines the fate of women everywhere.
01:53The Taliban Ministry of Vice and Virtue recently pledged to ban any images of living things
01:59in the media.
02:00During their rule in the 1990s, the Taliban had outlawed most television, radio and newspapers
02:06altogether.
02:11To discuss the situation for women in Afghanistan, we're joined by Nargis Nahan, women's rights
02:17advocate living in exile in Canada, also former Afghan minister.
02:22Thank you so much for being with us on the programme this evening, Nargis.
02:26Firstly, after over three years now of Taliban rule, how different is Afghanistan to the
02:32country you left?
02:35It's very different than the country that I used to live in the last 20 years before
02:40August 2021.
02:43As you mentioned, I was a cabinet member.
02:47Like me, there were also other women, they were serving as ministers, as deputy ministers,
02:52as member of parliament, as a woman rights activist, running businesses and as well as
02:57media organisations.
02:58Unfortunately, after 15 August 2021 and collapse of state, most of us were evacuated from inside
03:06Afghanistan.
03:07But on top of that, the Taliban started introducing decrease after decrease.
03:12And so far, they have issued more than 80 decrees directly targeting the very basic
03:18human rights of the women in Afghanistan.
03:21And today, the women are not allowed to go to school, university, work, going out without
03:28male guardian.
03:29Even they are not allowed to recite holy Quran in presence of other grown up women in public.
03:34That is the kind of severe restriction that women are facing in Afghanistan today.
03:39As a result of the situation, unfortunately, today, the violence against women has severely
03:44increased.
03:45There are a lot of forced marriages and selling of the girls, because now they are a burden
03:51on the family.
03:52And on top of that, the woman's position has degraded not only in the society, but also
03:57within their families.
03:58They are not seen as equal human beings anymore in their houses and as well as in the society.
04:05And rights groups, they said the Taliban is committing human rights violations, as you
04:09say, crimes under international law with impunity.
04:13What can be done to stop this?
04:15And why is the Taliban not being held accountable internationally?
04:19Well, unfortunately, what we see from the international community is only statements.
04:27We do not see any kind of pressure, serious pressure that they will put on the Taliban.
04:32We just see that they are coming statements under their statements.
04:35And on top of that, whenever there is any opportunity for putting pressure on the Taliban,
04:41they prefer to ignore that.
04:42They prefer to give in to the demands of the Taliban, because they mainly deal with the
04:48Taliban based on their own interests and as well as geopolitical situation, rather than
04:53looking at the gross violations of human rights the Taliban have committed in Afghanistan.
05:00Very recently, four countries have courageously come forward, including Canada, Netherlands,
05:06Australia and Germany.
05:08And they have said that they are going to introduce Taliban, I mean Afghanistan to ICG
05:14for violating the basic rights of women in Afghanistan.
05:20So we really hope that that process will move forward and Taliban will be held accountable
05:24for all these violations.
05:26And what other kind of concrete measures then are needed to address these human rights issues?
05:35First of all, we have to have clarity amongst ourselves, the state members, that we are
05:40talking about women's rights in Afghanistan.
05:42It's not only, it's not an internal issues of the country as Taliban are claiming that
05:48it's our internal issue and countries outside Afghanistan has nothing to do with it.
05:53It is a universal issue.
05:54That's why we have UN state members and we have resolutions that are saying that these
05:59rights are universal and will be respected and upheld by all member states.
06:04That is number one.
06:05The second thing is that we have to continue providing support, including online education
06:11opportunities and any other opportunities that is available and could be provided so
06:16that we can build the resilience of women and girls inside Afghanistan so that they
06:20don't lose hope and they're not further downgraded in their family and as well as in the society.
06:26But at the end, what is also needed that the world comes together and help us out that
06:30we come up with a political party for Afghanistan where actually we can have sustainable peace
06:35and we can restore back a government that will have internal legitimacy and as well
06:40as external legitimacy.
06:42It's a hard work and we know that it requires patient resources and energy, something that
06:48we see somehow the rest of the world is not interested to invest in Afghanistan anymore,
06:53very unfortunately.
06:54Do you feel then that the international community has essentially failed the people of Afghanistan?
07:00Absolutely.
07:01They abandoned the women of Afghanistan.
07:03They abandoned all their allies who stood for all the rights such as human rights, democracy,
07:10equality and women's rights that all of us are embracing and talking about.
07:16They just left us alone on our own and told us that you have to fight with the Taliban
07:21and we would rather go and engage with the Taliban because of our geopolitical interest.
07:28But what we see today, that today besides letting us down, letting their own partners
07:34down and besides the change of situation that we see for women inside Afghanistan, we also
07:38see very rapid expansion of extremism in Afghanistan, brainwashing of the young boys by the Taliban
07:45inside Afghanistan.
07:46That sooner or later, it is going to become a big source of threat of insecurity for the
07:51rest of the world.
07:52And with the Taliban becoming increasingly authoritarian, what is the state of civil
07:58society there?
07:59Because it's difficult not just for women but also for human rights defenders, for protesters,
08:03journalists, all of whom are perceived essentially as enemies.
08:07Yeah, absolutely.
08:09Anybody that they stand or question any decision of the Taliban, they are seen as traitors
08:14and they are being abducted, they are being detained, they are being tortured.
08:18In some cases, if they are men, they are being killed.
08:20In case of women, they are also being raped.
08:22There are so many reports that are confirming that women that they are being detained by
08:26the Taliban are also being raped by the Taliban.
08:29So that's what happens.
08:30And they do that intentionally to terrorize the rest of the citizens, that if you're standing
08:35against us, if you're protesting against any of the policies that we are adopting, that
08:40is what will happen to you.
08:42So that is the situation of civil society inside Afghanistan.
08:45Unfortunately, the space is totally diminished.
08:47There is no civic space inside Afghanistan.
08:50There is no dialogue.
08:51There is no engagement between people and the Taliban as a de facto authority.
08:57But those of us that were evacuated from Afghanistan three years back and we are now resettled
09:02in different countries, thanks to technology that has helped us to stay in contact with
09:07our people inside Afghanistan and provide them with the support and as well as make
09:12sure that we understand the situation, we collect the data and we amplify their voice
09:17and take their issues and voices to different platforms and make sure that the world has
09:23not forgotten Afghanistan and Afghan women and they are aware of the situation that is
09:28happening to women inside Afghanistan.
09:30You're in Canada, Nargis.
09:32Other activists, they went to places like, or other people who fled Afghanistan, they
09:37went to places like Iran and Pakistan, where they're again being exposed to forced deportation.
09:43What is the situation for those people?
09:45Is there any hope that they are one day going to be able to return home?
09:49Well, after Taliban are in power, there is no hope that they will return home and they
09:54are going to be safe inside Afghanistan.
09:57Even if they are forced to leave these countries, as soon as they go back to Afghanistan, we
10:02have many incidents report that they're being handed over by the Taliban, and in some cases
10:08they are being detained by the Taliban, in some cases they are being killed by unknown
10:12people that nobody takes responsibility.
10:15What we also see that, unfortunately, after a year, most of the countries have stopped
10:21accepting and resettling and welcoming these women from the neighboring countries.
10:27So they are stuck in a very limbo situation without any support in these countries.
10:32They also don't have the documents.
10:33They cannot go to the doctor.
10:34They cannot do anything.
10:36Their children cannot go to school.
10:37So we really hope that two things will happen to them.
10:40One is that countries come forward and allocate some resources that we can resettle these
10:49women into different countries, including Canada, U.S., and other European countries.
10:53And on top of that, we also need support so that we can provide some basic support, such
11:00as technical vocational education, humanitarian support, education for the little kids that
11:05these women are having until they live in these neighboring countries, so that at least
11:10the time that they are having will pass, but at least their children should not be denied
11:15education in these countries just because they don't have the documents.
11:19Nargis, we'll have to leave it there for now.
11:21We do really appreciate your time on the program.
11:24That is women's rights advocate Nargis Nahin, she's also a former Afghan minister.
11:29Thank you so much.
11:30Well, that is it from us for now.