Barry Anderson and John Grechan share their thoughts on the latest Edinburgh Derby.
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00:00Hello and welcome to the Hibs Hub, my name is Ben Banks, joined by John Griechan to look
00:12back on a derby day of probably regret for Hibs, a decent performance not meriting the
00:20three points in the end, looking on the derby first of all then for looking ahead, Mikolo
00:26Kukurevic putting Hibs ahead in the second half after a first half that most people have
00:30already forgotten and just as it looked as if they were getting back in, they were going
00:36to be getting back into that winning rhythm, especially in the derby, James Wilson popped
00:40him up for harsh at the end of the match to take a point for them, John being in the stadium
00:46certainly watching from home, certainly you don't get a full grasp of the atmosphere at
00:51the ground, I can imagine it was one of just how has this happened again, another late
00:57goal, another set piece, all the type of things we've been speaking about since we started
01:00this podcast really.
01:02Yeah, there was almost an acceptance when it happened, it was almost this is what they
01:07do and like I said right after the game yesterday, I was actually surprised that it happened
01:13and I know we probably should have expected it given everything I'd seen just seven, eight
01:17days earlier, but I genuinely going into the last 10 minutes thought nah, this is safe,
01:24Hart still looks as if they're causing Hibs any problems and then it's such, from a coaching
01:31point of view, if David Gray had much hair left, he'd be pulling it out because I mean
01:35it's so, so annoying and I know coaches will say every goal is avoidable, but he pointed
01:40out Alan Forrest running into the box to get first contact on the ball, he's not the biggest
01:47laddie in the pitch, right, he gets first contact on the ball and then Lewis Miller's
01:52just not marking his man at the back post, yeah, kid, teenager, should have him in his
01:57pocket, should be old manning him, you know, you're not getting past me kid and it's just
02:02so infuriating to watch that.
02:04So I think there was an element of that among the crowd, there was also an element of, well
02:08here we go again, let's hope we don't lose it and there were a couple of scares, I know
02:16Hibs were up the park and might have won it again, but I think the thing we'll take from
02:21it, they actually created more chances yesterday than they had in a lot of games, despite not
02:25playing very well in phases at all, they actually created quite a lot of chances and that's
02:30been a problem, I know he's hidden behind, oh we're creating chances, just not taking
02:34them, but they've not been creating brilliant chances, yesterday they created clear cut
02:39chances and Craig Gordon's big right paw, getting in the right place as he's been doing
02:45for about 100 years now, he said, well I feel old, I remember him when he was a teenager,
02:52but yeah, he was in the right place at the right time, so I don't know how else to, we
03:00need the narrative to change because there's only so many ways you can keep dressing up
03:04and explaining another late loss, another late draw, another late collapse, when they've
03:08just thrown points away in the closing minutes.
03:11Even if we go right back to the start, it's quite a tight line-up for Hibbs to put out,
03:15if you think Elian, Junior Hojla, Kukarevic, Martin Boyle, they threw everything at it
03:23and I think that resulted in the chances that get created, because obviously we're speaking
03:27about the goalkeeper and the defence and they've kind of, I don't know if they're quite connected,
03:32but certainly those two positions have been an issue at times for Hibbs this season, but
03:38the chances they get passed up at the other end this time were just like, you really need
03:43to, I mean, obviously the goalkeepers will be a debate that rumbles on, but if that Gale
03:49header goes in, then are you having that debate?
03:54Yeah, I think so, because Dwight Gale, I think he, you've got to give him credit for getting
04:00into these positions, his movement is brilliant and we've seen plenty of Hibbs teams over
04:05the years that they can get the ball into really good areas and nothing's happening
04:09in the box and there's no-one to pick out or a guy standing next to the defender, so
04:13his movement's been excellent. I actually think the one that he hits and gets cleared
04:17off or near the line by Penrith, I think that's probably the, it's almost the easier one,
04:23the headers are headers, you've got to just react quickly and hope you're getting the
04:27right contact on the ball and the ball's coming in at pace, but he would expect to score both
04:33of those, he would expect, if he'd walked off with a hat trick yesterday, I don't think,
04:38I think we'd all been going, holy, you know, look at this, the guy's got a hat trick and
04:42how clinical he was, I don't think he would be feeling that I was somehow gilding the
04:47lily on his performance, he'd probably walk off going, yeah, I'm an elite level striker
04:50and score, I've had four or five chances, I've scored a hat trick, what do you expect?
04:55You know, that's what he would expect of himself. I know from conversations in my own house
05:01and other places online and with people there as well, why did he make so many negative
05:07substitutions late on and sitting back? And I said, well, bear in mind, he was, David
05:13Gray was a member of Nick Montgomery's backroom staff last year and he watched Tibbs throw
05:18away how many points by not making defensive substitutions, by saying, nah, nah, we're
05:24still going, nah, we're sticking 4-4-2, we're 1-0 up, we're just going to keep sticking,
05:28we're going to go for it, and that's the way you want to play, that's the way you want to play.
05:31So there's a bit of emotional scar tissue there as well. And a lot of the same fans
05:37that said last season, oh, I wish Monty would just bring on like Mariah Welsh on the right
05:41side of midfield and make it nice and compact, you know, for those last 10 minutes are now
05:45complaining that David Gray did just that yesterday. So coaches make decisions and when
05:54they go wrong, they're mistakes. That's how it works.
05:57Fickle is the word I think you could pretty much use there. Quite simply, how did Tibbs
06:04stop shooting themselves in the foot? Because as we've said, it's like every game, there's
06:10just this one thing and the problem is that it's getting so intrinsically looked at because
06:14they just seem to be that team up until this point in the season. Everything that could
06:19go wrong on the park is going wrong and it almost feels like, as you said, it almost
06:24feels like, you know, almost like fate, like this is just happening and there's not a lot
06:28they can do to stop it.
06:30Well, here's an even clunkier segue then. I was watching El Clasico on Saturday night
06:36and this beautiful Barcelona team, right, with these homegrown players from La Masia
06:40playing beautiful passing football. If you were the opposition analyst for Barcelona
06:46and you were playing Hibs, you would say, gaffer, get the ball down the wings, throw
06:51it in the box, it'll cause panic. So that's the problem. Everyone now is looking, well,
06:56that's how we're going to test them, we're going to test them. It's not as if any team's
06:59going to look now and say, I've got a smarter plan of how to beat Hibs. This is how you
07:03beat them. So until you change that, you're going to get tested and tested and tested
07:07on that and we're in a league where crosses and balls into the box are huge, huge elements
07:13of it. They're a huge element of football anyway, it's not just Scotch football, but
07:16you know, crosses and throw-ins and all that kind of thing, they're a really difficult
07:21element. I think Gray understands the scale of the problem. I don't get any sense that
07:28he's just writing them off as individual mistakes, individual mistakes, individual
07:32mistakes, because at some point individual mistakes become a trend, become a problem,
07:36become an issue for your team. It's a team matter. So he's working as hard as he can
07:41on, it can be as simple as the information you give players and how you give information
07:47to players. You know, does he need to be shown more? Does he need to be just told?
07:52Does he need to have explained? I need to literally grab him on the training pitch
07:56and say, look, if I move here, you've got to be there, you've got to be doing this,
08:00all the little tricks and ideas and stuff that you think might come naturally.
08:05And the other thing that's at the heart of every coaching course you'll ever do,
08:09they'll pull out, I think it's Steve Salas, the sports psychologist,
08:13and he loves this line, just because you taught it doesn't mean they learned it.
08:22Hello and welcome to the Hearts Digest. My name is Ben Banks, joined by Barry Anderson for some
08:28quickfire Derby reaction. And we'll look back on Derby first of all, for going back to Thursday
08:33night's victory in the Europa Conference League against Omania and look a wee bit ahead to some
08:39of the games that are to come the rest of this week, beginning 28th of October. On the Derby,
08:45Barry, you're there, pretty, I mean, Edinburgh Derbys aren't known for their quality as of
08:50sort of, certainly in my time, this one didn't sort of break the mould. Second half goal by
08:56Kukerevich looked to have been giving Hibbs the lead, looked to be giving Hibbs the win.
09:00And then James Wilson sort of popping up at the end with a leveller to settle the game at one
09:05each. Just from a Hearts perspective, what were your sort of takeaways from it mainly?
09:10From a pure football point of view, you could see yourself with passes going out the park at times
09:14and just doing more touches, letting people down. There wasn't a lot of free-flowing passing
09:19from either side, you have to say. I think Hearts probably passed the ball a bit better than Hibbs,
09:24certainly in the first half. But they didn't create an awful lot with it. I would say Hibbs
09:28created the better chances and Kate Gordon's saves, you know, two or three really, really
09:32important saves from the Hearts goalkeeper that probably, you know, in the end they've contributed
09:38to Hearts getting a point as much as anything because if Hibbs had scored a second goal at
09:42any point and gone 2-0 up, then I don't think the Hearts would have come back.
09:48So, yeah, I mean, in terms of the entertainment, I found it compelling enough, you know, sitting
09:53watching it inside the ground. There was enough going on, enough sort of drama and ugly moments
09:59here and there, as there always are on derbies, but the quality of football, as you would maybe
10:03expect from two teams at the bottom of the league, just wasn't there on this occasion.
10:09In terms of some of the, if you're talking key performers in the game, I think I'd be remiss not
10:14to talk about James Wilson coming off the bench again. He's making a knack for, sort of, poacher's
10:20goals, if you will, which isn't a bad knack to have before you can have your first legal pint at
10:24this level of football. And I think he was, you'll probably, by the time this comes out,
10:28you might have read his interview with the sort of written and broadcast press on the
10:33Derby in the News website. It seems to be quite a, one thing that I took from it, I don't know
10:37if you'll have noticed in the stadium, but he scores and all the players are mobbing him and
10:43trying to celebrate with him. He's very clearly trying to pick the ball up and run back to the
10:46centre circle to try and then win it. And I think that says a lot about having the maturity he's got
10:51at this age that, you know, he's got that presence of mind to not only score but keep level-headed
10:57as well when it'd be very easy to get caught up and lose yourself a wee bit.
11:01Yeah, one thing I know is right at the time when he scored and his momentum sort of took him,
11:07having the shot and it's gone in off the post, I think his momentum took him initially round
11:12towards the side. He was heading round the post almost to celebrate in front of the fans and then
11:16he's realised, well the ball's right there, if I go and grab it then we can get back to the centre
11:20circle and start again. I can maybe score the winner and I think that's brilliant to have that
11:24kind of attitude that you've just scored in a derby at 17, your priority isn't to go and milk
11:31the moment and be the hero in front of the fans. You want to get the ball because you want to win
11:34the game and potentially either you or a teammate, you're desperate to get an opportunity to try and
11:39get a second goal and then take three points. I think that was terrific. We did speak to him
11:44after the game and he was his usual very mature and very articulate self. I first
11:50interviewed him after his first debut at Spartans in the Scottish Cup last season.
11:54He was 16 at that point and when you're interviewing him, he's built like a butcher's
12:14pencil, there's nothing to him but he was so mature, you're like this is not a 16-year-old
12:20kid here. If you'd have closed your eyes, it was like talking to somebody who's about 28 or 30.
12:26Just so switched on, confident in himself, confident in being able to speak his own mind,
12:33give his opinions. He clearly had a mature mindset on football, understood the game,
12:38understood why he was in the situation that he was in at Harts and having to be patient and wait
12:43for an opportunity. He's got those opportunities now and credit to Harts for bringing him through,
12:50credit to the kid himself for staying at Harts when he had opportunities to go to bigger clubs
12:54but knew that he wouldn't get first-team football there. He stayed and tried to get the chance to
12:59do that at Tyne Castle and credit to Neil Critchley for giving him opportunities. He's
13:04now scored two goals in his last two league games for Harts after coming off the bench against St
13:08Birmingham. He'll be on cloud nine but he'll be desperate now to force his way into the team and
13:15actually become a regular starter because that's his motivation is to try and get those first-team
13:20minutes knocked up. Just generally, you'll have seen Neil Critchley's teams twice now,
13:28we'll go on to speak a wee bit about Albany and a wee bit about what do you think the key lessons
13:31for him that were learned out of that because it'd been kind of plain sailing the first two games,
13:36comfortable wins at home, one in Europe, a thumping win in the league,
13:40but obviously a bit more difficult yesterday. What will he have taken from this game?
13:48He would definitely have learned that his team were a bit, or certain players within his team
13:52were a bit fatigued after the European game. Again, I think that's pretty understandable.
13:58He would want them to be more creative in the final third. That wasn't a particular strength
14:05of theirs in this derby on Sunday. I think he made substitutions. I think the first
14:10substitutions that he made, he took Vargas off and put George Grant on. I saw Alan Forrest come
14:17on at the same time and I felt that put hearts on the back foot a bit. He'd scored not long after
14:23that so I think they probably have to be a little bit more careful how you change your team, when
14:31you change it, all that sort of thing. This is very early stages of Neil Critchley's tenure at
14:40Harps and he's obviously going to learn different things about different games as well, different
14:44opponents, different venues as well as the players that he's working with. So far the signs have been
14:50very good. I've been hugely impressed by him, hugely impressed in terms of the way his team
14:55has played. I've been impressed with most of the decisions that he's made, the vast majority of
15:00the decisions that he's made. I think they've all been logical, they've all made sense
15:05and there's a good sensible approach in there. I've been impressed with him individually because
15:10he comes across as a very pleasant guy, very respectful, good, articulated human being,
15:18seems to have good values about him and he understands hearts. I think that's an important
15:23thing. You've heard that in the way he's spoken early on about the need for hearts at home in
15:28particular, the two Tyne Castle games against St Merna and Ammonia, to be on the front foot,
15:34pressing opponents back, being aggressive, getting in their faces, getting after opponents.
15:38That is the way that Harps have to play, with a high-tempo approach. I think Tyne Castle has
15:45been set up, has always been that kind of place and if you're a Harps team and you're not playing
15:50to those kind of strengths, then one, I think you'll struggle and two, supporters will soon
15:55let you know it's not acceptable.
16:01Hello and welcome to a special episode of Fairy Tap of the Toon podcast. My name is Ben Banks.
16:07Today's episode previewing a big semi-final match in the Premier Sports Cup for the club against
16:13Rangers, their first semi-final since the 2017-18 season. In this competition, we are joined by a
16:20hero and former player in Simon Ramsden. The former defender has kept tabs on the club ever
16:25since leaving for Park as part of the Stuart McCall era, which brought about Champions League
16:31football and plenty of memorable nights to ML1. He joins us on the podcast to discuss coming back up
16:36to Scotland for the game, his thoughts on how it could pan out and a bit about his time at the club
16:41and what he's up to now.
16:42So obviously we're a few weeks away from the now, out for the semi-final, but what's your
16:52travel plans and itinerary looking like for that week? Are you going to be up here for much
16:56of the time or are you going to be up and down? Yeah, I mean due to work commitments, I'm probably
17:02going to be coming up at the crack of dawn on the day of the match, going to Fair Park, a few drinks,
17:07meet up with some good friends and get the bus. We're booked on the bus going to Hampden, so I'm
17:11looking forward to it, mate. So you're on the club buses then, aye? Aye, yeah, can't wait. I've not
17:18been up for ages. Like I say, since I came up before, I've started doing full-on my job with
17:27the fitness classes and stuff now with kids, so I don't really have the time on a weekend to be
17:30coming up to the matches very regularly, so I'm looking forward to this one. It's long overdue,
17:36another trip up. Obviously you've been at a few clubs and your time, is it still
17:41Mullow, still sort of outside of Sunderland, still the home from home? It's by far the fondest
17:46memories of my life, on and off the pitch I would say, during my career. Made some amazing friends
17:54living up there, the people were incredible, still keep in touch with a lot of them now,
18:00and then the footballing side of things. Just a great three years, barring the end spell obviously,
18:06the first two years, the European trips, finishing second behind Celtic, different
18:13things like that. It's just memories to last a lifetime and by far the most enjoyable time
18:19of my career. Do you get much of the games, or do you keep an eye on how things have been
18:25going this season? I always keep an eye on it. It's one of the first results,
18:30obviously, aside from Sunderland, that I look for every week. The whole squad has completely
18:37changed since the last time I was up at a match. Obviously when I left the club, even over them
18:41two years after, it was a total different squad every time I came up. But now, I wouldn't say
18:46I'm too familiar with a lot of the players' names and stuff, I just keep an eye out for the results
18:51and obviously love to see the team doing well, which they are at the minute. What is it that
18:56they're doing well now? They've not achieved anything yet, but it's on the path to being
19:02sort of similar type success in terms of the consistency on the part in terms of the results
19:06that you guys had when you were kicking about. When you are a team like Mullow, when you are
19:11going to be playing teams with bigger budgets most weeks and certainly when you start to play
19:15Rangers and Celtic, Aberdeen, Harch, they've certainly got bigger budgets. But how big is
19:20the consistency factor in terms of getting results to keep you up the right end of the league?
19:25You know what, it's massive, but for me, going back to when I was there, it was the togetherness
19:29off the pitch that got us there. It wasn't so much like we had any massive big-name players,
19:33like we had Fadi and what have you, but it was the togetherness off. So when you haven't got
19:38the biggest names and the highest budget, you have to do other things, you have to bring the squad
19:42together. Motherwell is one of them clubs, like I say, I've been at quite a few clubs and it's
19:47very rare that it's got a family feel, where you go for your dinner and everyone's on first-name
19:53terms, you finish training, everyone's playing table tennis together or we used to go over a
19:57Club 100, play snooker or they come round my house on a weekend or things like that. And it's always
20:03been like that from way before my time and it's carried on after my time. And I think if you get
20:09that side of things right, it leads to what's going on on the pitch. There's no doubt about it.
20:15Yeah, you're going to get inconsistency when you haven't got the best players in the world.
20:19You are going to go through spells where if you come up against a Celtic or
20:23an Aberdeen at the minute, you could be in for it. But on the whole,
20:29the punching above the weight like we did in my time at the club and it's great to watch.
20:34There's obviously cut runs for smaller clubs can always mean that, maybe a wee bit more because
20:40you're not there all the time. But I know there wasn't any particular, I don't use the word
20:46at Hampden in your time. I think before you ended the last game you were registered as a
20:53middle player would have been those playoff sort of final games against Rangers. Just having those
20:59sort of big results against the bigger teams in those type of one-off matches, it does create
21:05such a galvanising effect around the clubs. I'm sure you've had that probably elsewhere as well,
21:08whether that be in the FA Cup or the League Cup. It's massive. A lot of these big clubs now,
21:14they write off the Cup competitions as if to say the League is more important. But you ask any fan
21:21to make it to the Cup final or to win a Cup, it's a once in a lifetime thing for some of the smaller
21:29clubs. Going back to obviously I'm a Sunderland fan. Sunderland haven't won the Cup since 1973
21:35and it's still talked about in every pub. Every pub in the town has got framed pictures up of
21:41the team in 1973. Now that's what can happen. If Motherwell go on and win this Cup, it's going to
21:48be talked about in another 50 years or so. Do you know what I mean? That's how big it is. And for a
21:54fan, it's what it's all about. Like you say, Rangers and Celtic and clubs like that are used
22:00to winning every week. They're used to winning titles. They're used to winning Cups. For fans
22:05that have been along and seen relegation struggles or the team mid-table for 20 years or whatever or
22:10never won anything, this is the be-all and end-all. This is what it's all about. This is why I'm coming
22:14up. This is what you want to be a fan for, what you want to go for, for atmospheres like this.
22:20It's going to be an incredible day.
22:24You're not just there, the players on the park are certainly just there for the day,
22:27but for the fans certainly as well. Because Rangers will be the favourite for this. If
22:32Rangers go and win, then I don't think MD will be necessarily surprised. But for Mullow fans
22:36and fans of provincial clubs that don't usually get here very often, I think this is the first time
22:41and certainly in the League Cup, it's the first time in seven years since they won the last League
22:44Cup semi-final and first time in six for the Scottish Cup. It is the day out, you almost
22:50remember, maybe a wee bit more than the action on the park sometimes.
22:54Totally. I mean, I'm unfortunately, or unfortunate enough to say, I never played in the Cup final
23:00myself. But as a fan, I went to Wembley to watch Sunderland seven times in my lifetime and we lost
23:06all seven. But the last time we managed to win. And it's days like that, yeah, I remember some of
23:11the days out. We got beat, but the nights out in Trafalgar Square or whatever, it's unbelievable
23:17memories. Yeah, the result didn't go to plan on the pitch, but we finally won. And it's days like
23:22this, like I can still remember coming up for the Cup final last time. I can't remember what
23:27happened last week sometimes, but I can remember the day and being in Club 100 after or being on
23:33the pitch singing and karaoke and stuff like that. It's great times and it's something that
23:38you can just sense everybody's buzzing about. And hopefully the team turn up on the day and
23:43it's a result that we can be happy with and go on to the final.