Tony Bond, Executive Vice President, Chief Diversity and Innovation Officer, Great Place To Work, Sabine Krummel, Vice President of HR, Europe, Stryker, Sam Oliver, Vice President, People & Communities, EMEA, Cisco, Thomas Petit, Vice President, Business HR International Therapeutics, AbbVie, Alan Winters, Chief People Officer and Deputy Chief Compliance Officer, Teleperformance Group, Orianna Rosa Royle, Success Associate Editor, Fortune
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TechTranscript
00:00I'm Oriana Rosa-Royal, Fortune's Success Associate Editor, and thank you all for joining us today
00:05for a very special conversation focused on the Fortune's 100 Best Country Work for Europe list,
00:11presented by Great Place to Work and UKG. We're very excited at Fortune for our first ever
00:16European version of the list. In a moment, I'll kick off today's conversation, but first,
00:21just some brief housekeeping. Today's gathering is on the record and will be covered by Fortune
00:26journalists. We will be taking audience questions later in the programme, so please
00:33use the chat function to submit your questions and I'll work some of them into the conversation
00:38later on. With that, I want to introduce our discussion leaders. When I mention your name,
00:44if you could please just give us away so our audience knows who you are. Sam Oliver, VP,
00:50People and Communities, EMEA at Cisco. Sabine Krummel-Mihailovic, Vice President of HR Europe
00:57at Stryker. Thomas Petit, VP of Business, HR International Therapeutics for AbbVie.
01:07Alan Winters, Chief People Officer and Deputy Chief Compliance Officer at Teleperformance Group,
01:12and Tony Bond, Executive Vice President, Chief Diversity and Innovation Officer at Great Place
01:19to Work. So let's dive right in. As businesses respond to a changing landscape of talent, work,
01:25culture and technologies like AI, we want to discuss what makes a great company with survey
01:31results of more than 1.3 million employees in Europe. Over the next 60 minutes, we'll hear from
01:37leaders whose companies are building high trust experiences for their employees and we'll learn
01:42how this is driving their success and making their organisations great places to work.
01:47Let's start with you, Tony, to help us set the stage here with a brief introduction.
01:52Sure. Thank you, Rory. I first want to say congratulations to all of the great leaders
01:56here on this panel and all the companies that you represent because you've been a great place to work
02:01for a long period of time. So congratulations with that. I would say there are a lot of hot
02:06buttons for leaders and organisations right now. We recently did a global study and whether it's
02:12company, the technology issues that are coming up around AI, we still are managing the diversity
02:17inclusion conversation. We have environmental and social issues. And so with all that in mind,
02:23some results that came back from Europe shows that only 56% of the employees in typical
02:28organisations feel like there's fairness. And so trust is really the foundation to all of these
02:33topics that I mentioned. We're finding that at a typical workplace, only 56% of the people feel
02:38like it's fair, which is an issue. In stark contrast to our world's best companies, 84% of
02:45the people are creating or feeling a sense of fairness being created in their workplace. And so
02:50I think that's a great way for us to start is how are we creating and managing a great place to work
02:55and making sure things are fair within this changing landscape and dynamic landscape that
03:00we're operating in? You bring up a really important point. We're going to come back to
03:05building trust later on. I mean, you're instrumental in helping Fortune create the
03:09best companies to work for list. From your experience behind the scenes,
03:13what do the best employers have in common? I think this has held true for many, many years
03:19now. The best employees are having a wonderful experience with their leader. And so they feel
03:23like there's a leader that they respect, who respects them, creates a sense of fairness,
03:28and is very a competent leader, understands how to get to where we need to go. And so that's a
03:32big part of it. And also the experience we're having with our coworkers. It's not just employees,
03:38but it's a sense of teamwork. And so people feel great about the people they work with.
03:42And then purpose is really important as well. People want to work in a position and have a
03:47job that brings them a sense of purpose, and they have an extensive amount of pride in the work that
03:51they do. So those three elements have always been the key ingredients to a great place to work. I
03:56don't think anything's changed. They're still the foundation of what makes a great place to work.
04:00I mean, aside from those three key ingredients, you say never has changed. You've worked at a great
04:04place to work for over a decade. Has there not been any change at all in that decade then on
04:08what makes a great place to work? I think everything starts with leadership. Leadership
04:13is so important. And so how people view their leaders and what they expect from their leaders
04:18has evolved over the last several years. And so rather than being this role model and someone
04:23who has all the answers, people are experiencing their leader more from a coaching, from a support
04:28perspective, someone who's developing them. And so I think what defines a leader in today's world
04:34is somewhat different than what defined a leader 10 years ago. And so nothing happens without the
04:38leadership. That's the most important piece of all of this. And so they're viewing leaders as
04:42being much more of a coach, someone who's developing them, someone who's listening and
04:47not necessarily having all the answers to what questions they have. Right. I think we already
04:52saw that during the pandemic. Yeah. Yeah. Really stood out in the pandemic. I mean,
04:58Thomas, I'm going to throw this over to you. AbbVie is recognized as a great place to work
05:01in 18 countries in Europe. What do you think it's doing well to stand out?
05:06Well, thanks. And first of all, hello everyone. I'd like to build up on what
05:12Thaddeus said. Thaddeus said that, you know, everything started with leadership and I've
05:18put in agreement with that. I think that people leaders need to create an environment in which
05:24employees feel comfortable to speak up. Otherwise, we have those leaders that can live in a bubble
05:29and are disconnected from the reality of all employee experience. So a great place to work
05:35and culture, I would say, start with leadership accountability. I would say, what Tony said,
05:43people must feel empowered and accountable. So leadership needs to be the one to foster
05:52accountability, the sense of ownership and empowerment. And I think that played a critical
05:57importance at AbbVie that helped us to obtain the ranking that we have. It's not about the ranking,
06:03it's about the culture we have at AbbVie every day. I mean, Sam, Sabine, Thomas, Alan, your
06:10companies, of course, all feature on the list too. Do you agree? Do you disagree?
06:14Completely. Sorry, Sabine, after you, after you.
06:17No, I agree. And I want to go back to what Tony said. I think it starts really with a purpose.
06:21So I think the mission and the values is key and you see my values on the back. So I think
06:25this is the umbrella, but then it goes definitely with the culture is the foundation, the true
06:31north. I think why young generations are joining, right? I recently did a lecture at the university.
06:36You spend more time at work than with your family and friends, and you want to have this belonging,
06:40you want to be with someone. And to Tony's point, I think leadership has changed. It's more this
06:45carrying, the empathy is more on the focus now these days, also to create a psychological safety.
06:51So also showing that you're vulnerable, right? I keep sharing, like I'm taking care of my mom
06:56recently. So I'm sharing this on purpose with my team that I feel, okay, she is not different. I
07:00think from a leadership point of view, I think it's still being a role model, Tony. So top down,
07:06but so to create this culture, the foundation, I think there are four components. It's a
07:10communication, always explain the why, why is this happening? Why is the change bringing people
07:15along the journey? Being a leader, that kind of what I shared before, but also providing the
07:20opportunity to grow and learn along the journey. Still, if something is challenging, recognize and
07:26celebrate. I think this is sometimes forgotten, right? We move on, we have the next project,
07:31but I think to recognize and to celebrate is so important. And then I live in a matrix world,
07:36I think it's even more important to cross collaborate and have people come together
07:40and work on one same goal. So I think this is a foundation for a fantastic culture.
07:45I love that you're being really honest about your care, taking responsibilities. I mean, Sam,
07:50I know you wanted to talk at the same time. Just to add on to completely agree, I think
07:56evermore, it's going to be around purpose. It's going to be around psychological safety.
08:00It's going to be around creating a workplace where people can be their best selves and do
08:04their best work. And in an environment where we know that the pace of change and the level of
08:09ambiguity in work in the world is only going to increase. So how do we evolve our workplace to
08:14keep those things true as that pace continues to grow? It's a great opportunity for all of us.
08:19I mean, I think one thing you guys have mentioned is specifically psychological safety. Do you have
08:23any tips on fostering that? I think it's about taking the time to really do it, to really connect
08:29with your people. We have some really simple routines that we do at Cisco that go a long way.
08:34So every single week, every leader will sit down with every person virtually or in person and say,
08:40what was good about last week? What did you love? What did you love? That's a real conversation.
08:45And then what are you working on this week and what support do you need from me? So just really
08:49simple questions that really ground us in the reality of how somebody is doing right now,
08:53linked to the work that we need to do. Yeah, we do something similar.
09:00Yeah, so at Teleperformance, let me explain what we do really quickly. So we're
09:05in the customer experience management business, right? So we do servicing on behalf of clients
09:11and we're 500,000 people around the world with a significant population in Europe.
09:18I agree with what everyone said, and we're focused a lot on psychological safety,
09:22obviously culture development, and how we do that. And we're actually in the process of
09:28rolling out an emotional intelligence program to help with many of those aspects, certainly
09:33empathy. But I think for us, one of the key aspects, especially with an organization our size,
09:41is to simply ask questions. We no longer do an annual employee stat survey. We work with
09:48Great Place to Work, obviously, annually. But our program, from an engagement perspective,
09:53we ask questions every day and week and month. What's working? What's not? How are you feeling?
09:58What's going well? How can we remove roadblocks? What's getting in your way for development,
10:03success, et cetera? And that gives us an enormous amount of feedback that you react to it,
10:09and that's how you build the trust and improve on then the culture based on whatever the feedback
10:14is. The psychological safety aspect is critical, because that's how you get people to open up and
10:21really talk, feel safe and talk about what's really happening, personal or work life,
10:26and then building together to drive whatever change or improvement or activity needs to be done.
10:34And you said you scrap surveys.
10:38We do not do an annual survey, right? So if you think about an annual process,
10:43you get the results three months later, you get the analytics. By that time,
10:48the issues have already changed. Our world are changing drastically for our people.
10:52So we've done that to near real time where we have several mechanisms every day, every week,
10:59and every month where we're soliciting feedback, taking action within that month to drive change.
11:06Interesting. So we still do an annual survey on engagement, but on top, we do a Pulse survey
11:12check-in. So this is basically was born after the pandemic or during the pandemic. It's basically
11:17just on well-being. And coming back to your question, Rihanna, on psychological safety,
11:22it's not taken for granted. I think this is not an easy one because it's built on trust. And how
11:27do you build trust is probably the key question, right? And this is over time by listening,
11:30actively listening, and also being, you know, feeling accountable. We do what we say, right?
11:36We feel integrity matters here. So I think it's not taken for granted. That's an easy word to say,
11:40but it's built over time. Can I just respond real quick? Because I think it's interesting
11:48the word trust. Because in an emotional intelligence perspective, trust actually
11:52equals a feeling. And that feeling is either security or fairness. And if you think of it
11:57from that perspective, then how you build that is a very different approach. Because we're all human,
12:04we all have emotions, and we all interact and make decisions based on those emotions and actions. So
12:10they're all interrelated. And you have to approach that from a holistic perspective to get
12:16people feeling comfortable. It's okay to have an emotion, and it's okay to share your feelings and
12:21understand what's happening from a trust perspective. Because that shows empathy,
12:25you build trust, and you build a stronger relationship. That equals a stronger culture.
12:31Yeah, and we run not an annual survey, build up to what Sabine said. We're going to have
12:44another one like soon in 2025. But building on trust, I think we all agree that it takes time
12:50to build trust. And consequently, psychological safety. We are Europe, right? So you say that
12:57Rome was not built in a day. And I think that building this high trust experiences require
13:03great examples, fact, and numbers. So as we speak about psychological safety,
13:09running a survey, share those results transparently with the workforce, contribute to build also
13:17transparency. And all we share, we survey, we discuss with them. It's not something that we do
13:25once a year. We do it on a regular basis. We plan, and we show some accountability about
13:33our commitments to improve. And also something that probably we all agree is this doesn't happen
13:41by chance. You cannot wake up in the morning saying, hey, we're going to improve physical
13:48safety. It requires an international effort, courage, and dedication.
13:56And I've heard a number of leaders reference listening and care. And I think that's something
14:01that definitely works in this world. Because if you go back to the pandemic, I think our level of
14:07curiosity was higher than it ever has been. And so the level of listening, the level of care we
14:12showed to people was tremendous. And so are there rituals that we were doing back then that we can
14:17continue to carry forward? It really makes a difference. And Sam mentioned there's some simple
14:21things, but those simple things make a huge impact in the employee experience. So the listening
14:26and caring are two key parts of that. I mean, to add to that, one question I've got for you all
14:33is actually, what is a tangible thing that employees can do right now, today, to make
14:42their workplace a better place to work, aside from reviewing their annual review system?
14:47Do you have any quick tangible tips?
14:52I don't know if it's a quick one. I don't know if it's a quick one, Arianna. But maybe this is a
14:56bigger one. But I think it's critical. And that critical piece for me is really, really driving
15:01the business to understand why this matters. So it's really simple. How we feel drives how we
15:07think. How we think drives how we behave. And how we behave drives how we perform. So if we want to
15:12drive great business performance, we've got to come back to how are people doing. So it might not be
15:16quick, but I think that's a critical piece. Alan, you're nodding. You agree?
15:21I do. And for us, and I'm hoping everyone would agree with this as well. So this actually kind
15:29of comes back to that leadership piece as well, right? So when you implement programs like this,
15:35or try to drive increased trust, or culture improvement, or whatever it is, your leaders
15:41have to lead by example, right? And by leading by example is that reinforcement mechanism.
15:47So it's okay to express yourself. It's okay to ask a question. It's okay to push back.
15:52It's okay to hold each other accountable to whatever the goal, objective, or values are,
15:57et cetera. And if you do that in that environment, that's that reinforcement mechanism.
16:03And then that way it becomes life. It becomes real. It's everyone can see that everyone is
16:09leading from that example and believing in the culture. I don't know if it can be a tip or
16:19whatever, but I believe when employees can have an enterprise mindset that can certainly somehow
16:33help. Let me explain. I think when employees start to think that the company good must always
16:40be ahead of each function, or country, or consideration, it's really important because
16:46it's foster collaboration. It's also co-creation across function and capabilities. And false
16:53understanding is from a point of view. So it creates a sense of we belong to the same organization.
17:00It resonates with that my perspective will be heard and valued.
17:10And this is one of the ways we worked at V, which is named all for one of V,
17:16but it's critically important for a company. And if I can add on, I think things have also
17:24changed. So one worry we had, I want to be honest with you, after the pandemic, how do we sustain
17:29our culture? Because we are used to build relationships, but then the new workplace
17:32flexibility came into place, but we had this hybrid working from home. And I think if you ask
17:38for an advice, I think there's not a solution that fits all, but I think stay close also to new
17:43joiners. I think this is important because sometimes forgotten how, you know, remember
17:47your first experience at work, you had a coffee together maybe, right? And now someone is sitting
17:51in the home office or whatever. It's different. I think to have this in mind, also the next
17:56generation, I think generation alpha, they are called, or generation Z, they have different
18:01expectations. So also always have this in mind to help you sustain the culture, but also maybe
18:06to adapt. And then obviously this is the first time we've published this list in Europe. Do we
18:12think that the requirements for what makes the best company work for in Europe is different to
18:16other parts of the world? Are Europeans so different? I will tell you my view is we're
18:22in 90 plus countries, right? There are certainly cultural differences within each country on
18:31maybe words being used or norms, et cetera. But when you peel all that away,
18:38what you're left with is humans. And we all react the same way. We all want the same thing.
18:45Again, we may express it slightly differently. So if I look at my survey results by country,
18:50I could see similar, different expressions of the same thought as an example. So for me,
18:56the way I look at it is as long as you approach it from that human factor and the emotional
19:03intelligence factor, it really minimizes the difference between cultures or even generations
19:13in the approach. At least that's what we've found.
19:15I agree. I mean, I'm part of an American company, so Zweig is an American company,
19:23but definitely there are cultural differences. And even within their region is cultural
19:27differences. I mean, in Germany, we have South and North is totally different. Italy,
19:32North and South is different. I think at the end to Ellen's point, it gets back to the human being.
19:37And I want to go back also to what Tony said, the purpose why you are joining companies,
19:41the purpose, the mission is maybe the umbrella. So that brings everybody together again.
19:47I also agree with what Allen said. We're surveying in over 200 different countries every year,
19:5315 million employees. And so at the core, if you look at what we're asking people,
19:58it resonates really well across the globe. And so we are looking at it from a human perspective.
20:03And I totally agree with what Allen just said. There are some unique differences,
20:07but at the core, it's pretty consistent.
20:10What does your data show are those unique differences?
20:16Well, I'm sorry, what are some of the unique differences?
20:21There are some variations in how people view leadership and their ability to communicate
20:28to leadership and if it's open or not. And so there are some differences there. But
20:32I think at the core, the things that we're asking in our statements is really getting to my
20:36experience of the workplace. And it's more of a trust building foundational thing. So it's
20:43most humans are very similar, I would say across the globe. And so we try to get to
20:47those particular similarities. Yeah. So when you said that you
20:51work for an American company, I do as well. Although that I think both of our companies,
20:56we serve our global companies, right? So I think we're thinking about culture, right?
21:03And also, as you speak about enterprise mindset and enterprise culture, everyone comes with
21:09different background. I use more background than culture. I think about like people coming from
21:15Italy or Spain or Germany. Yeah. You can move to background, you come with your values as an
21:23individual, as a person. But then when you join a company, you expect to have one culture that
21:32will be the same across the globe. You expect the company that will carry the same standards
21:40wherever you are in the world. I guess, you know, we have all the same one code of conduct.
21:45I'd be as one code of conduct. We don't have like one code of conduct in that country.
21:50So I think for an employee, being reassured that values, the culture of the company is the same
21:58across the globe is certainly something important, especially as we think about those
22:03that could forecast, you know, international carriers. I want to go to that place. I mean,
22:09it's a consistency of the culture of a company is something very critical beyond background,
22:14beyond generations. Of course, generations are important, yeah. But I wouldn't put that on top
22:20of what is foundational in any given company. Yeah, that's actually interesting. So
22:28we're a French-owned company, so I work for a French-owned company, I live in the US, right?
22:33But because we're registered in France. But for us, we actually use this term,
22:40we call it the United Cultures of Teleperformance. So again, I'm in 90 plus countries around the
22:47world. And we certainly have a global, here's our values, here's our strategy,
22:53here's what's acceptable, here's what we want you to be doing, etc. But when you go to each
22:58of our countries, we also look at what are the norms and the culture of the country. And that
23:04is also part of how we integrate at a country level, because we believe that makes us stronger.
23:11It makes us stronger for our clients and makes us stronger for our people.
23:17Sam, did you want to add any to this at all before I move on?
23:22I think the team have covered it beautifully. I think for us,
23:26core Cisco belief will be that we've got more in common that we have in difference. And
23:30of course, there are nuances, nuance based on the headcount in each country for us. So some of our
23:36countries are like large companies, and some are quite small. We're also quite an acquisitive
23:41company. So we will acquire and ingest culture as we go. And that's quite a sensitive thing to
23:46follow. But for me, as we've said already, it's about coming back to the human and just listening.
23:52I love that. And Tony, are you seeing from the data, we're seeing companies at the moment
23:58say they're ending working from home for innovation purposes, collaboration purposes.
24:05How are companies on the fence around this on the list? Are they mainly working from home?
24:11Are they back in the office? Have you looked into that?
24:14Hmm. Yeah, I think they vary. I think the companies understand their employees,
24:19their employee needs. They're offering choice. So I think there's not a one size fit all.
24:25Some folks are critical to be in the office pretty much the whole week. Some folks,
24:30maybe a couple of days a week, some folks totally remote. And so I think it's more about giving
24:34people choice and allowing them to have a voice into what works best for them. But also where
24:40does their needs and the company needs meet? Where is that intersection? But it's not a one
24:44size fit all. And so I think that's the great companies are flexibility. I would use this
24:50word that they're offering when it comes to work location and whether it's hybrid or whether it's
24:55in the office. How are you guys as leaders or balancing innovation and output with flexibility
25:02and making your place a flexible place to work? Go ahead.
25:08So definitely similar to what Tony said. So in our production locations, definitely
25:13there's they have to be on site. There's no doubt about this. But we have also a patient center,
25:19one in Ireland and one in Freiburg, a huge opportunity for cross-corporate collaboration.
25:23And the young generation love to be there. It's like it's a huge building and across the floors
25:28to change views and also opinions. So it's really an innovation as part of our strategic
25:34initiative. I mean, looking at the next products to make healthcare better here. So this is
25:39something we really foster and also encourage people. But on the other side, teams offer so
25:45many opportunities these days as well. Like we have conference calls and probably the same for
25:49all of us. We are constantly on calls and team calls. So the life has changed, but we adapted
25:55so fast. But innovation is definitely crucial to us. I was going to add something similar. So for
26:02us, again, if you think about our business model, so just rough numbers were about 500,000 people
26:08around the world, about 85 percent of that are frontline customer experts doing the interactions
26:13on behalf of our clients with their customers, phone calls, emails, chat, et cetera. Right. So
26:20we were 95 percent brick and mortar pre-pandemic. Right. Within a 12-month, 12-week time period,
26:28we got to 95 percent in at home because of the necessity. We're about 50-50 today. And that
26:3450-50 will stay around that number based on the type of role and what the job is. And because of
26:41our our the work we do, we were able to be very flexible. But we also did a survey and asked our
26:48people post-pandemic, do you want to go back to the office? Do you want to stay at home? And the
26:53vast majority wanted to stay at home because they love the flexibility. The quality of life is better.
26:58There's no commute, et cetera, et cetera. And we've been able to to work with our clients and keep
27:05that that number. And that's probably where we'll end up staying. We'll probably end up being about
27:08a 60-40 split over the long term, but we will always end up with still having people work
27:14from home. And we hire directly to work at home as well. We hire some people that will never step
27:19a foot into an office. They will always be 100 percent remote. We're really similar. So we we
27:26anchor from a position of how do we create an environment where people can live their best life
27:31and do their best work? And that requires flexibility and work. The work for us should
27:36lead the location. So we're very hybrid. And we believe that if if people want to come together
27:42to innovate or to do work, then the space is here for them. And that again, a Cisco kind of phrase
27:47that we use is the office should be a magnet and not a mandate. So we allow people that choice to
27:52choose how to get that work done. Yeah, we use the same we call it live where you love, love where
27:57you work. Love it. Love it. Your choice. It's a nice one. And let me share a little bit about
28:04right. I mean, just to give you some perspective, as we go, 54,000 employees across the globe,
28:1115,000 each in Europe. We're based in 75 countries. So just to give you some perspective,
28:19we love flexibility with the framework. So we are a hybrid company.
28:25You mentioned that, you know, we have operators in manufacturing side. We have to be, you know,
28:30on site. And then there's no there's no question to to manufacture the product and solution we
28:38bring to our patients. But we have a three plus two model, right? Or three days, three days in
28:44the office, two days, you can be in the office, but it's not mandatory. Right. And I think that
28:50this model allows and I'm not no way of saying like, is it the best model ever? I'm just telling
28:56you what what what what we're doing. And it's a system that allows some flexibility because,
29:02right, people like to be at home and focus on what but also help people to get together.
29:11Because I'm a strong believer that if you are not together in an office or any place,
29:18but you can think and collaborate, you know, it doesn't necessarily help finding innovation
29:25and the sense of belonging. So I think this hybrid model works works well for us.
29:31And and that's been the case after after the pandemic until now.
29:38I mean, much like hybrid working, I think what makes a great place to work vary so much
29:43depending on the generation you're talking to. For Gen Z, it might be a really sustainable ESG
29:49focused company. For someone else, it might be pizza on a Friday. And then for CEOs, obviously,
29:54the answer be totally different. How can bosses ensure that they're making a great
29:58place to work for everyone? Is there a one size fits all solution?
30:02Oh, I'll try to answer for at least from my perspective. I don't think you can have a one
30:14size fits all because we're not a one size fit all right. So I think you have to have
30:23a wide menu of activities, options, benefits, wellness program, well-being, etc., etc.
30:34that appeal to many people. Right. And you can't try to put a round peg in a square hole
30:42and expect to get it, get have that psychological safety, that trust, that I'm valued, etc.
30:48It's a challenge, especially for us that we have so many different generations,
30:56etc. in it. But that's the only way to really, really have that environment
31:02where people feel valued and trusted. I love that phrase menu, like a menu of perks.
31:07What would be your top three on your menu? So I think our engagement program that I
31:15talked about certainly is one of them where we're continually asking feedback.
31:18We have a global wellness, well-being programs as well. So if you think about which this is
31:24actually a challenge, but in the U.S. as an example, an employee assistant group program
31:31is typically part of the benefit program from a health care perspective that you provide.
31:36In other countries, some countries in Europe, many in Asia and Middle East,
31:41that's not the same level. Right. So we've actually taken the employee assistant group
31:47process and implementing it in other countries where it's not been implemented before. And that
31:53isn't a support focus for our people may need to speak to somebody, want to speak to a therapist or
32:00have an issue that they need to solve. And so we're providing that level of support
32:05to help for those that would want to use that as one example.
32:11I can mention also an example, Alain, to your point, we have a well-being solutions
32:16and program across the globe that we provide consistently. Well-being is the forefront
32:23of the provocation that we have. As we think about Europe specifically,
32:31I think mental health is also the agenda of many of us. And I would say mental health
32:38is part of well-being, right? It's not everything, but it plays a big part. We have
32:45now some regulations in Europe. We didn't need regulation to do what we believe is important
32:50for employees. We don't need that. But it shows that in Europe, you know,
32:55security, well-being, mental health should be the center of our agenda as HR professionals.
33:07Yeah. Our well-being program is global as well, but then it's also customized based on the role.
33:14So I have 20 plus thousand people that are doing trust and safety content moderation work,
33:21which is a very intense, very psychologically intense program. And their well-being program
33:29is very different because of the support requirement need than it would be if you're
33:33handling a banking or financial services call as an example. But there's still a program for those
33:40people as well. So it's very customized based on the need of the individual and the role they're
33:45playing for us in the company. Coming back to your question, Oriana,
33:50I think there's no solution that fits all to Ellen's point. I think you need to have those
33:55conversations with each individual, what suits you. The first point and second point, we have
34:00similar like Ellen on a global scale program, also outside provider who can help on the well-being
34:05side. And what is really, really unique here, what I really am proud of. So from the employees,
34:11we created a well-being task force right after the pandemic, and this is still in place. So out
34:18of the business on each function, not led by HR, for example. I mean, it's fantastic. So they are
34:22looking really on different well-being topics, social well-being, career well-being, financial
34:27well-being, and this is cascaded down in each country. So it's very unique and special. And
34:33I'm also proud it's not led by HR, so it came from those employees, right? They are leading
34:38these efforts and they have kind of dedicated weeks. And this is a focus this year on well-being
34:43or whatever. So it's fantastic that it was an evolutionary journey here. So over time.
34:50To build on that, Oriana, I think it's definitely not a one size fit all. And
34:54one way that it's helping organizations understand the various needs within the
34:58population of employees is employee resource groups. Some companies call it business resource
35:03groups. You have a committed group of employees that are representing, maybe it's all parents in
35:08your workplace. And that's a great way to better understand what their needs are. They can help
35:12you understand what makes a great place to work for that population. So ERGs, BRGs can be a really
35:18valuable resource in understanding the needs of employees. This is great. We have, we have,
35:24I think we have at least 40 ERGs. So it's like a woman's network, safe for LGBTs. We have SANS,
35:31South African, Asian Pacific. And this is also to your point, it comes from the employees and
35:36they feel like a safe space where they are with themselves, right? Which others still have the
35:40same topic. So yeah, that's a good point. That's so interesting because I was going to ask, clearly
35:45there's no way of making all people happy at your workplace. It's impossible. So what is one way of
35:51making those people that maybe aren't being listened to, or, you know, they've put something
35:54in the survey and there's no way the boss is going to do that. What's one way of making them feel
35:58seen and heard? So groups. Yeah. Is there anything else, Tony, Sam? So I think, I think groups is a
36:08great way. I think it costs nothing and it doesn't even take much time to go and listen.
36:13It's okay not to be able to give somebody what they want as well, but giving people
36:16clarity is kindness. So, so I think it's okay that we can't always deliver on everybody's
36:21expectations all of the time, but acknowledging how they're feeling and seeing them and then
36:24responding is what matters. I agree. And nothing can substitute for that relationship that I have
36:32with my direct leader, you know, my, my boss. And so that there should be a strong enough
36:37relationship that we can have a dialogue and I can help this person understand, you know,
36:42what my needs are and how not only how, what my needs are, how I can contribute to the organization.
36:46So I think the meaning is made through the dialogue that I'm having with that direct manager.
36:53That's so interesting. And speaking of groups, obviously one big commitment that employees made
36:59during the pandemic was to DEI groups and sustainability groups. And now, you know,
37:05companies aren't doing so well financially and they're clawing back on these groups. What do
37:09you think that does for engagement and are these places best companies to work for?
37:13Tony, do you want to start with that one? So I think your question, you use an example of
37:18D&I and ESG. One of the things we discovered through this recent research is that only 51%
37:25of the employees, I believe, in a typical workplace say their organization, business
37:30decisions improve society and even less for the environment, really 41% say that it improves the
37:36environment. And so people are asking or wanting to know what their companies are doing to not only
37:42make it a better society, but also to make the environment better. And yet they're not hearing
37:47anything from their leaders and from their organizations on what is being done to have
37:51a positive impact. And so there's a gap there. I think there's a need and an expectation from
37:57an employee perspective, but they are either not hearing or don't understand what organizations
38:02are doing in those areas. I think the D&I conversation is much clearer. There's a lot
38:07of history behind that. And so people are understanding that a little bit better than the
38:11ESG conversation. So there's, it's a huge opportunity area.
38:15I agree. But if I think about your question, Oriana, I would argue that, and there is pullback
38:23in some of the D&I activity, et cetera. But I think for those companies that are doing that are
38:29making short-term decisions with not really understanding the long-term impacts to
38:34their people. And I think we'll see that play out over time, because if you just looking at D&I
38:41in Annapolis, for us, our ERG groups are under that process. If you pull back from that, that's
38:48a takeaway for your people. And that's how it's viewed or a lack of commitment. It doesn't matter
38:54if it's a financially related decision or not, it's still a takeaway. And that for most people
39:01in the job market today, it's important. When I think about the type of questions we get from
39:08either our frontline staff or even frontline managers, the majority of the time we hear about
39:13what's your D&I and ERG and what are you doing community-wise, et cetera. So that's important.
39:20And if you pull away from that, you're going to end up not getting the best talent for the roles
39:24that you have open. I totally agree. And I'm trying to draw the contrast between the typical
39:29workplace and the workplaces that we're hearing from right now. And so it is business as usual
39:35when it comes to D&I for these great workplaces. But overall, the scenario is totally different
39:39out there. Yeah. I think as we speak about ESG and D&I, I think there's one or two things that
39:48we should keep in mind. The fact that someone, whatever the background that he or she has,
39:57can say, I belong, meaning that I can connect with the groups that will be able to understand
40:05my specific concerns as a male, female, whatever ESG we are talking about, really matter.
40:16And as we speak about performance in the short term, I think you added this point,
40:22which is very valid. Like we think performance in the short term and performance in the long term.
40:28For me, what we do in the front of ED or ESG contribute to make our company sustainable
40:40and performing on the long term. So it's always this balance to have between,
40:46hey, let's not show the performance, like what we're going to do this year, right? And what we're
40:52going to do every day, as we speak about ED, as we speak about even AI, I think it's something
40:57that we'll discuss later on, will help to make companies sustainable and meaningful on the long
41:04term. And that will contribute to the success of the corporation we are working with.
41:11And if we are honest to ourselves, there's a war for talent in the future. And if you look at the
41:16generations in the future, it's even more, and I agree with you, Elinor, in the short term thinking
41:21versus long term thinking, how do you attract someone? And I think if we don't provide those
41:25opportunities to create this belonging culture, I think we will fail.
41:34Sam, do you have anything to add? You've been nodding along with all of these statements.
41:37I don't have anything else to add, because I think everybody's absolutely nailed it.
41:41The short term, long term piece is where it lands for me. And I feel very privileged right
41:45now listening to the conversation to work for a company that's really invested in this space,
41:48as clearly all of the team are here as well. So none of you are amongst the companies that
41:53are pulling back on your promises? No. In fact, probably the opposite and adding to it because
42:01of the significance of the impact it has to our people. I love that. And we all know that talk is
42:08good, but the action is much better. And so maybe great companies aren't speaking about it as much,
42:14but the work is still getting done, because why walk into the landmines that are out there today?
42:21That's not necessary. But we keep doing the work, but we may speak about it in a different way than
42:25we've done it in the past. That's really interesting. I mean,
42:31speaking of something that's got a lot of noise, experts keep predicting robots now replacing
42:36workers. Tony, I mean, you've been looking at the list. What are best companies to work for
42:43doing when it comes to AI? People are cutting jobs. People are pausing hiring because of
42:48automation. Are best companies to work for doing this also? There are some jobs I'm sure that AI
42:55can handle as opposed to humans. But I think best companies are first looking, how do we augment
43:01the role and the jobs that people have with the technology, as opposed to replacing people
43:07because of the technology? And also, how do we skill and train and develop our people
43:12so that if there are jobs that actually can be used through AI more, there are other opportunities
43:16for people? And so it's more of an augmentation conversation versus a replacement. And so I feel
43:23like that's what AI is not a tool. It's much more than a tool, but it's an environment that's being
43:28shaped within our workplace. And also the question is, what does it look like to lead in an AI
43:33environment? And so leaders have to help humans be the best humans they can possibly be. So there's
43:39some development investment that needs to be associated with that. So that's what we're seeing
43:43in best companies. Augmentation, how do we develop people and give them the skills to be the best
43:48humans they can possibly be? Yeah, we're actually in the throes of launching a new program specifically
43:56around that and how we think about it is AI enabled and human powered interactions, right?
44:02So we're using AI as not a job replacement, but can we get the right information at the right
44:10time to our people to provide a better human interaction and better outcome and better service?
44:15And so we're actually, we just finished launching in the first four countries, but an entire new
44:20emotional intelligence program, starting with assessments and brain profile and understanding
44:25coaching and development from an emotional intelligence perspective, and then adding on
44:30to that, the AI component of how we can take technology and really drive a change in those
44:37interactions. Because our view over the long term is that, you know, again, we're all human and we
44:46all make decisions through our emotions. So the more you are attuned to that, the better off you're
44:52going to be for the future. And if you look at the, as an example, the World Economic Forum just
44:57released last year, 10 aspects of skills that are going to be critical in the next 10 years,
45:06and that's analytical thinking and creative thinking, empathy and active listening,
45:11leadership and social influence, curiosity and lifelong learning. So I believe successful
45:18companies, if you think about that, will capitalize on the emotional aspect with the
45:22employees and focusing on that to position yourself to be better competitiveness in the
45:29future world of AI. And that's how we're approaching that program for teleperformance.
45:37Our survey results showed only 33% of the people say that our company is investing
45:42in this, our ability to use AI in Europe and a typical organization. So that's really what
45:49sets this group apart from what people are experiencing in the average workplace.
45:53Yeah, Tony, as we speak about Europe and AI, right, I totally agree with what has been said
46:00already. But I would add something. AI is one of the priorities that our CEO expressed that we need
46:12to focus on this. As an accelerator or motor, to your point, Tony, it's not going to replace,
46:18it's going to accelerate what we try to do. And as we think about how AI can play a critical role
46:26in R&D, for instance, like being able to have a different pace that will help research and
46:35development experts to analyze data, that will be critical for the Earth. So we definitely need to
46:45invest, but I would say we cannot play small in the sense that you can start saying like,
46:53oh, we're going to launch a program in that country. Because if you want to have an impact,
47:00I would say that what we do about AI in a company should be global. It doesn't mean that it has to
47:06be everywhere at the same time, but we need to have an enterprise approach and not a segmented
47:14approach saying like, everyone is okay to experiment. That would be my addition to what
47:23you said, Tony. Sam Sabine, are you investing in AI? Hugely, hugely. So it's the future of our
47:31business. It also has to interplay hugely within our culture. So we, at the moment, we are working
47:36for a program where everybody in HR or people in communities, as we refer to ourselves here,
47:40is undergoing training in AI. And that's about innovation, but it's also about comfort. What we
47:48found is that as people start to play with AI and get comfortable with it, some of that fear around
47:53what is this going to do for me goes away. So that's where we're finding that people are realizing
47:57this really can augment decision-making. That AI is brilliant at giving you information, but it's
48:02not brilliant at wisdom. That it can help you to understand, but it's not good at empathy. That
48:07it's good at assessing and accessing data, but it's not good at connecting. So played right,
48:12we can remove a lot of what software developers would call the toil work. So get rid of the toil
48:19and focus on the higher value stuff that only the humans can do. So for us, it's about really
48:24getting people involved and getting to play with it. Yeah, similar to us. So we have already
48:30invested in the past, especially for the production, new technologies, 3D printing.
48:35But we have now a centralized AI team looking specifically, where does it make sense? It's not
48:40just for the sake of having AI. I think this is maybe also not well taken. You look at your
48:45strategic initiatives and then where does it make sense to invest for now? But overall, it's more
48:51important how you implement it and how you communicate, I think, to bring teams along to
48:55your point, Sam, to create also the trust. Don't lose it because in certain areas you still have
49:00the human factor. So we have development, our team members maybe who have been in production
49:06now using a machine to learn how to use it to upscale here and do the right things. But I think
49:12the communication, as I said in the beginning, will be key. Yeah, I mean, I think it's important
49:17if you think about when you're going to implement AI technology or any technologies, just ask the
49:22question, what problem are you trying to solve? And especially from an AI hype perspective,
49:28my fear is that companies will be implementing AI for the sake of implementing AI, right? There's
49:34in human resources, as an example, there's technology out there now that could automate
49:39the performance management review process. Well, is that really the human experience you want when
49:44you're delivering coaching and performance management and goal setting all to coming from
49:49an AI without a human intervention, etc.? Just as an example. So I think we have to be
49:56very careful because this will impact, again, the trust, the empathy, the culture and net result
50:06potentially impacting what you end up seeing from a great place to work, trust index score
50:11perspective because of that approach. So I just think you have to be very, very mindful of how
50:18you implement it. Yeah, I totally agree. It's like the success of the tool depends highly on the
50:24context in which is used. And that's an example of that. And then also my ability to ask the right
50:31question. And so those are all human things. And so if I can't ask questions and I'm not using it
50:36in the right context, then I won't get success from using the tool. So keeping humans in the
50:41loop or on the loop is really, really important. And I would say that from an HR standpoint,
50:46as we think about solutions that AI can bring to the HR function, right? Is that we have a lot of
50:52professionals that sometimes are very busy answering very basic questions. Yeah. That a
50:59system that will be fed with the right information, please can access to that. They don't need like,
51:06they just need an answer. And what we have implemented is a system that is using like
51:14app data for employees. And employees can get answers directly from AI. So our team or HR
51:23teams can refocus their attention on stuff that interaction with people, focus on business
51:30priorities, focus on all the great topics that we just discussed. So I see AI from an employee
51:36standpoint as related to HR matters being used to answer basic things. So HR professionals can
51:44take more time on things that are really added value. It can move the needle for the workforce.
51:52I think the key message here is trust that AI has the potential to repair, but also
51:57break trust. Is that right? And do you guys have, before we go, it's got five minutes left,
52:02any other quick tips on how to rebuild trust? Employees have been through a lot. They've been
52:06through a pandemic, pull back on D&I, math layoffs, even if they've not been impacted
52:12personally, obviously they might have had a friend who's been impacted. So how can employers
52:16rebuild trust today? I will start by saying a lot of the key drivers to a lot of these topics,
52:24and we asked this on our survey, when the executives fully embody the company's values,
52:30and I think that came up earlier, that's a huge element to building trust. Whether you're talking
52:35about D&I, ESG, AI, if the executives are fully embodying the values of the organization,
52:42it leads to trust. I agree. I think I have some values. I think I said it in the beginning,
52:48like in my background here. So do what you say, right? And continues to communicate about it.
52:54To summarize what we talked about, listening to the peers in the group,
53:07I would say for all the topics that we addressed, the key word is balance.
53:15Yeah, I think balance in the way you approach any topic, balance as we speak about the model
53:23we have for the workforce, the balance we need to have considering everyone's experience. So
53:28if I could summarize, building high-trust experiences require also balance. Balance
53:40between trust and control. And as we speak about sustainability in the long term,
53:47trust and control, they are two concepts that are not going well together.
53:53More you give trust, more you need to be ready to turn around for mistakes or things that will not
53:59work. A high level of control for everything we do, as we speak about AI, as we speak about
54:09ED, will ensure shorter performance, but the long-term basis will affect negatively trust,
54:17innovation, and company stability. So in everything we do, the balance is important.
54:24Control, control what we are doing, and trust and sometimes let things go for the best.
54:30Sam Allen, do you have any quick final thoughts?
54:32For me, it's about showing up. So for all leaders, enable them to show up authentically,
54:37ask great questions, listen, and then deliver. Build from your people.
54:43Yeah, and for me, it's all about the engagement activity. If you ask a question, respond,
54:49do it very clearly and openly. Even if it's a no, with why, that's how you build. Because
54:58the whole point about this is, well, trust is you listened, you took action, whether you
55:04solve the problem or not, but I'm valued and my view is valued. And that's how you build trust.
55:12And Tony, I'm going to come to you with one final quick question before we go.
55:16What do you think the best companies to work for will look like in 20 years' time? And what can
55:21businesses get on with now when they close their laptops and get back to work? What can they get
55:25on with to be on that list in the future? Yeah, I would say the human touch is going to
55:30become more and more important as we move forward. And so I use the example with AI,
55:35helping humans be the best humans they can be. So the leader was going to be more maybe an
55:39experienced designer. So they create the right experience for people in collaboration with
55:44technology. And so I think that's going to be somewhat a part of the future, is leaders showing
55:50up in a way that they can create the great experience for people alongside technology.
55:55Amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you all to our fabulous discussion leaders, Sam,
56:00Sabine, Thomas, Alan and Tony. Thank you so much for joining us. And a big special thank you to
56:06our partners, Great Place to Work and UKG. That's all we have time for today. So take care and we
56:13hope to see you soon.