Medio Oriente, Russia, energia e rapporti commerciali: sono i temi dell'intervista con Jarem AlBudaiwi, segreatario generale del Consiglio di cooperazione del Golfo, ospite di The Europe Conversation
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Novità Trascrizione
00:00As the war in the Middle East enters a new dangerous phase, the EU held its first ever
00:12EU Gulf Cooperation Council.
00:15For Europe Conversation, I catch up with Secretary General of the Gulf Cooperation Council,
00:20Jassim al-Badawi, and I talk to him about the agenda, trade, global security and renewed
00:26efforts for a two-state solution.
00:31Your Excellency, thank you very much for joining us on the Europe Conversation.
00:35You're here for the first ever EU Gulf Cooperation Summit, lots of things on the agenda, security,
00:41global warming and so on, but I want to start off in the Middle East because we are at a
00:45very dangerous moment.
00:47We're seeing constant attacks by Hezbollah and Iran against Israel.
00:51We're seeing an immeasurable suffering in Gaza and also in Lebanon.
00:57Can you tell me what you see as the EU's role in this has been and can be?
01:03Definitely the EU has been a responsible partner and we thank them for their role in trying
01:10to convince the Israeli side to refrain from its actions against the people and the Palestinian
01:16people and again or newly against Lebanon.
01:21The EU has helped out the Palestinian people.
01:26There are many members which we really admire and appreciate who have recognised the Palestinian
01:32state.
01:33We hope that the EU members, all of them, the 27, do work towards recognising Palestine.
01:41This would really help.
01:42And has the EU had any success in speaking to Israel and a lot of people would also point
01:47to the fact that the EU is heavily divided on this issue.
01:51Has anybody in the international community had any success in convincing the Israeli
01:58government to refrain from this action?
02:03Unfortunately no.
02:04The Israeli government continues its policy, continues its military action against civilians
02:13in Palestine and Lebanon.
02:15They continue this attack.
02:19The International Court of Justice called them to stop.
02:22The UN called them to stop.
02:24The Security Council called them to stop.
02:26Every single country in the world has asked Israel to stop.
02:30They have not done it.
02:31We cannot put that pressure on any group of people or group of countries or a country.
02:38And then do you appreciate that some member states are selling arms to Israel?
02:43Member states of?
02:44EU.
02:45Well, we hope that, not only the EU, again, we don't want to single out a group of countries.
02:51It is a comprehensive thing.
02:53Selling arms to Israel at this moment is a dangerous thing.
02:59They are dealing with this issue with a revenge-oriented mind.
03:07We heard it from Mr. Joseph Borrell.
03:10He used this terminology.
03:12Revenge does not take you to anywhere.
03:15You need to stop.
03:16You need to find a peaceful solution, a two-state solution, an Israeli state and a Palestinian
03:23state living side by side.
03:25This is what the whole world is asking for.
03:29This is what we are asking for.
03:31Can you tell me where you see Iran's role in all of this?
03:36Supporting Hezbollah, sending rockets into Israel, supporting Hamas?
03:40Well, GCC has called every single player in the region for de-escalation.
03:46We have asked everybody to refrain from any activities that will fuel conflict, that will
03:56rage the entire region, whether it's Iran or anybody else.
04:01We have been trying to speak with them, sending them message of de-escalation.
04:08Last week we held our first ever ministerial meeting, GCC with Iran.
04:14The message was clear to Iran that GCC wants a stable region.
04:21We heard the same thing from Iran, that they are calling for de-escalation, they are calling
04:26for normal relationship between GCC and Iran and everybody else in the region.
04:34This is what we are calling for.
04:36This is what is the effort of the GCC.
04:40If there is, we've seen the instability obviously will lead to the rise in oil prices.
04:46What will the GCC's reaction be to that?
04:48Because we've seen that in the past during the Russian full-scale invasion of Ukraine,
04:53gas and oil prices going right up and the OPEC plus refusing to do extra oil production.
04:59Shona, this is not the first crisis in the Middle East and this is not the first time
05:05that the international community faces the question or the challenge of short in demand in oil.
05:12History is there, you can check the history, you can check the numbers.
05:16We've seen it so many times where the GCC have done their role regionally and internationally
05:23to make sure that oil is provided to everybody, that oil is within a reasonable price for
05:32the seller and the buyer.
05:34Oil is an important element for the international economic formula.
05:43We need to make sure that there is enough supply for everybody, rest assured that the
05:48GCC will be there when this challenge is facing the international community.
05:54So they will increase oil production?
05:56They will do every necessary thing to secure energy for every partner in the world.
06:03One of the requests from EU member states throughout the Gulf Summit was for greater
06:09recognition and appreciation from Gulf countries regarding the role of Russia as a global security
06:15threat but also in particular obviously a threat to the security of Europe because we
06:19haven't really seen that so far.
06:21Do you see Russia as a security threat to the world and do you recognise its threat
06:27to Europe given of its full-scale invasion of Ukraine?
06:30The GCC member states believe in dialogue, believe in diplomacy, believe in continual
06:40engagement and that's why we have a perfect relationship with every single partner in
06:46the world, whether it's Russia, China, the United States, the EU, Latin America, Africa,
06:53Asia, we are standing in the middle, having the same distance with everybody and we are
06:59engaged in a dialogue with everybody and this is the message we send to everybody
07:04is we should refrain from using force and use dialogue, diplomacy as our tool in discussion.
07:16Nobody should use any kind of force.
07:20I am personally from Kuwait and I know what is the use of force mean.
07:24My country was gone in a few hours when Saddam invaded Kuwait in the 90s.
07:30But do you recognise Russia as a security threat given that they are bombing children's
07:34cancer hospitals in Kyiv and dialogue hasn't worked because it didn't work to prevent Putin
07:40from invading Ukraine?
07:42Well, there is a security council, there is a united nation where we all can go, it is
07:48our court, this is where you need to address these kind of questions.
07:55You go to your general assembly in the united nation, you go to the security council and
08:00address it, nobody again should be singled out on certain issue or certain file.
08:07It has to be a comprehensive effort, international comprehensive effort that deals with these
08:13kind of questions.
08:14What would you like to see in relation to trade and if there were clauses in trade
08:19agreements in relation to human rights and gender equality, would that be a problem?
08:24It will not be a problem because we are very proud of our human rights record.
08:32The six of us are engaged with the EU with a human rights dialogue and this dialogue
08:38is done on a yearly basis where officials from both sides sit in a very thorough and
08:45comprehensive discussion discussing all sort of issues related to human rights and labour,
08:52women empowerment, child rights, all sort of issues.
08:59You can also check with your European colleagues on the wonderful outcome that comes out of
09:08these dialogues, the six of us are engaged, it's held once in Brussels and once in each
09:13country in the gulf.
09:16Also there is another path where human rights is discussed which is Geneva where each country
09:22is reviewed every five years, not only EUGCC but the whole international community reviews
09:31each country and reviews its file every five years.
09:34We are very proud, we are very honoured of what we have achieved in meeting the international
09:41community demands and requirements on human rights, our record is wonderful and we are
09:49extremely proud of it.
09:50I mean a lot of people would argue with that and they say that the record is far from wonderful
09:54and doesn't meet the international standards when it comes to basic human rights, whether
09:58you're talking about Saudi Arabia and people being arrested for tweeting, the executions
10:04that take place frequently in Saudi Arabia, in Qatar there was a heavy focus on migrant
10:09workers and the rights being taken away, tortured and so on.
10:14I think people would argue that really those standards fall far below international requirements.
10:21I don't know, when you say people, what do you mean by people?
10:24Human rights experts and then if you just look at the reports, the reporting from those
10:27countries themselves.
10:29I would also challenge these kind of reports because I don't know who is doing them or
10:33Well the Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, the journalists themselves
10:36I'm talking about the human rights dialogue that I'm having with the EU and the review
10:42that I have every five years in Geneva.
10:46I don't know who gave these organisations the right or the privilege to set the bar
10:54for the whole international community with human rights, it's a dialogue, again we talk
11:00about dialogue, you don't point your finger at anybody, you need to respect everybody's
11:06laws, everybody's culture, everybody's religion and we are being reviewed again every five
11:13years in Geneva.
11:15When somebody comes and says, okay this is my standard for human rights, you have to
11:19meet them otherwise I will write a report about you, criticising you.
11:25You can write whatever report that you write, I am a member of the international community,
11:31I will respect the international community's demand, I will continue my engagement with
11:36the demand and pointing out the gulf has become very ridiculous really, I mean we keep justifying
11:44ourselves for those, I don't really know how far they want to go.
11:49Okay, well Your Excellency Jassim Al-Badawi, thank you very much for joining us on the
11:53Europe Conversation.
11:54Thank you Sean, thank you so much.