The Breakdown: Doechii on 'DENIAL IS A RIVER'
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00:00Rap is about having heart.
00:02It's not about a fucking formula.
00:04It was never about that.
00:06It's about us just expressing ourselves freely.
00:12When I started trying to do all that other shit
00:14and making music for the club,
00:15making music for this, whatever,
00:17girl, that is weak.
00:18It's lame.
00:19Loser!
00:20Sorry.
00:20♪ Fast forward me 2023. ♪
00:23♪ I'm stacking lots of cheese and making money. ♪
00:25Hi, I'm Dolce, and this is The Breakdown.
00:28A little bit of a backstory.
00:30I was originally working on an album
00:32before I was working on a mixtape.
00:34The distinction between a album and a mixtape,
00:38to me, is about limitation versus freedom.
00:43I think this could have been an album, 100%.
00:45But when you use words like album,
00:47there are certain politics and things that come with that.
00:50Whereas with a mixtape,
00:52it is just like historically known
00:53for you to have no limitations.
00:57And so that's what this project was all about,
01:00which is why I was like, let's just do a mixtape.
01:02I want to just be able to cry and scream
01:06and color and scribble all over it
01:08and not have to worry about perfection
01:10and just be able to detach myself
01:12from this idea of the perfect project.
01:16So many things changed.
01:17I literally changed in this studio.
01:20And so there's just shedded skin all over the place.
01:25I woke up one day and I felt very ready
01:30to stop being codependent on my label.
01:39And when I say that,
01:40I mean like codependent on their opinions,
01:44codependent on their approval,
01:46codependent on their advice, even.
01:49I realized that what works for everybody else
01:52doesn't work for me.
01:53And I don't think that I fit
01:54into any type of particular formula
01:56that can just be recreated a whole bunch of times.
01:58I'm forever evolving.
02:00And once I detached from codependency,
02:02I was able to be like,
02:04I don't think I want to even do an album.
02:06I don't think I'm actually even ready for that.
02:08I'm ready for a mixtape and I'm ready to be raw
02:10and I'm ready to tell my story my way.
02:12And I don't want any hands in the pot.
02:15And I made that call, I made that decision,
02:17but it also represented a decision that I made in myself
02:20to be dependent upon God within me.
02:25I was just fed up with doubting myself, you know?
02:29And you doubt yourself when you have convinced yourself
02:33that something outside of you is gonna get you somewhere.
02:37And that lie that I was believing for a long time
02:41was getting too heavy for me to carry.
02:43And I was like, I genuinely can't do it anymore.
02:45I don't care, I'm snatching a wig off
02:47and we're gonna do this.
02:49I have to do it now or else it ain't never gonna get done
02:53and I'm not letting nobody take my dream.
02:57There he is.
02:59It's interesting because when sequencing this album,
03:02I knew, oh, mixtape.
03:07When sequencing the mixtape,
03:09I was like, I'm going to remove all the formula
03:13of how things should be sequenced, right?
03:16Usually people are like, we need to put the hits at the top,
03:18put the bigger songs, more commercial songs at the top,
03:20give them something creative in the middle.
03:22I was like, I denounce all formula right now.
03:25Let's do what feels good.
03:26And let's also tell the story in order.
03:29Even the first track, the intro track, Stankapoo,
03:31the first bar is, let's start the story backwards.
03:35So I'm prioritizing in my sequence and in my mixing
03:39just the stages of which I went through things
03:44when I overcame them and then we can celebrate
03:47and be on bullshit at the end of the project.
03:49But we need to heal first.
03:51There was a point in the mixtape,
03:53it was when I was starting to write Denial is a River.
03:57And I was really afraid of how raw and honest
04:02I was being in that record.
04:03And I know that a lot of my fans
04:05really, really loved that record
04:06because I made it humorous,
04:08but it actually is very, very dark.
04:10It was inspired by a journal entry that I was writing
04:13where I was like, I'm just going to bluntly say my story.
04:18I'm not gonna try to be metaphorical about it.
04:20I'm not gonna try to be like artistic about it.
04:23We're just gonna tell the story
04:24exactly how it happened in chronological order,
04:28but in a fun and humorous way.
04:30And that was one song where I was like, this is too much.
04:33I can't, I can't say all this.
04:36But then I was like, no, I need to.
04:40I was having a conversation with Jada
04:41and she was like, other people
04:43are going through these things.
04:45They need to hear somebody talk about it.
04:46They need to hear somebody say it.
04:48And you gotta be brave enough to say it.
04:51And I was like, all right, I'll say it.
04:55My nigga DL.
04:57Sorry.
04:59Ah!
05:05Nobody's going through that.
05:06Like, just me.
05:07Ah!
05:09Catch it!
05:12But the girls who going through that,
05:14they like, yeah, yeah, me too.
05:17All five of us.
05:22So this is Jada, Jada Love.
05:24This is my engineer and she mixed,
05:28but also in a way kind of executive produced
05:31this entire project with me
05:32and helped me sequence and organize it.
05:34She's extremely talented.
05:36Hi, y'all.
05:37I was here for Denial is a River
05:39and I had already written the rap,
05:41but I was like, do I want to do
05:43like a whole musical type of script with it as well
05:47and really take it there on some like
05:48Slick Rick children's story type of vibe.
05:51And I was like, yes, yes, I do want to do that.
05:54She was like, follow me.
05:55I'm about to do this intro.
05:57Don't like, just, just hear me out.
06:00And then did the like, what's up, Dolce?
06:02And I was just like, ooh, yucky.
06:04Are we doing that again?
06:05And it just kind of flowed into the rest of the song,
06:08but it was really, really fun to record.
06:11Yeah, I've been getting some calls.
06:13People are a little bit worried about you.
06:15And I know that that was kind of that outlet for you.
06:17So why don't you just tell me what's been going on?
06:20Okay.
06:21I needed another character to walk me through this.
06:26This song is really just like people hearing
06:29how I am, the inner dialogue that I'm having with myself.
06:33Like, okay, maybe you should really unpack that.
06:36No, no, I'm not.
06:37This is an inner dialogue that I'm having
06:39with the voices in my head.
06:40It just seems like I'm less crazy
06:42because I do it with a funny voice.
06:44I wasn't surprised to hear how honest she was.
06:48The only surprising factor of it
06:49was just how quickly it came about.
06:51But the contents of the song,
06:54no, were not surprising at all.
06:56So I called the label and I was like,
06:59I am dropping a mixtape on August 30th.
07:02Do what y'all gotta do with that information.
07:04This is happening.
07:05Then they were like, okay, good girl.
07:06What's the rollout?
07:07And I was like, I'm just gonna write a song a day
07:10and I'm gonna film to it.
07:10And whatever comes of that is what's gonna come of that.
07:12And that's the rollout.
07:14And they were like, well, do you have the songs?
07:15And I was like, no, I'm gonna make it today.
07:17We'll see what happens.
07:19And that's literally how it went.
07:21And I dropped the mixtape and I was like,
07:23whatever I get out of this month is what I get.
07:25So I better write my ass off.
07:27And I did.
07:28When they got signed, that was 2021.
07:31Okay, I just feel like this is the perfect opportunity
07:34for us to just take a second
07:35and kind of unpack what's happened to you.
07:38You know, this guy cheated on you and...
07:40Nah.
07:40Fuck it.
07:43When I got signed early,
07:44I was coming into having no money
07:48to being in a completely different tax bracket and state.
07:52Then that year turned into two years
07:54and then the two years turned into three years
07:56and I'm making music and I'm not unpacking.
07:59I've lost friends.
08:00I've lost family.
08:01I am shedding my old self.
08:04I'm used to operating out of a place of survival
08:08and I'm not taking time to unpack it.
08:11And so when I said, fuck it,
08:14I was just like, yeah, no, but well, moving on.
08:18We still got other stuff to do.
08:19I'll deal with that when it all builds up inside of me
08:23and I explode.
08:24I'm just gonna wait till I explode.
08:26Really that explode happened to be kind of my sobriety
08:30in a way.
08:31It turned into that.
08:32That was my version of like, all right,
08:35I'm gonna let everything go.
08:38I'm letting everything go.
08:39I'm letting, I'm getting sober.
08:41I'm not talking to nobody.
08:43I'm not talking to my label.
08:44I'm finna be in my house.
08:46I'm a paint and I'm a write
08:48and I'm not talking to anybody.
08:50That's me exploding when I exclude myself
08:53and I shut down and I get in my hermit.
08:57Yeah.
08:59I wanna talk about a realization
09:05that I've had, which is I have to make music
09:09for therapy and for me.
09:13That's my formula.
09:15And to kind of tie it in a little bit,
09:17there is a formula for songs.
09:19There's a formula for radio.
09:20There's a formula for TikTok.
09:22There's a formula for all these spaces, pop, even hip hop.
09:28What noise is that out there?
09:30Sorry.
09:33That's creativity.
09:33That's creativity.
09:35I hear it, but we're in a studio.
09:36So it feels like.
09:37Okay.
09:39Let's tell, they're in the room.
09:41I'll be just as happy.
09:43I got it.
09:4512 seconds later.
09:48Yeah, the turn of music down the studio.
09:50Damn, I was making a point and I lost it.
09:53Formula.
09:54Formula.
09:55You're a formula.
09:56Formula.
09:57But in me realizing that there's a formula for everything.
10:02Fucking hell, I had it.
10:04Yeah, you were cooking.
10:05I was cooking.
10:07Wait, say the question one more time.
10:10Fuck the formula.
10:11Fuck the balance.
10:13I just have to make music for me.
10:16I just gotta make music for me.
10:18And I make my best work
10:20when I'm not thinking about a formula
10:21and when I'm not trying to follow nothing
10:23and when I'm not listening to nobody
10:24and when nobody cares and when nobody's listening,
10:27I make the hardest thing ever.
10:28And if it blows up on TikTok, it blows up.
10:30But I can't make music from that place.
10:33It distracts me.
10:34And then I'm not able to tell the truth.
10:36Sometimes those formulas that fit for pop and radio
10:39and TikTok and the internet
10:41and you're making music for moments
10:43instead of making music for therapy,
10:45you dilute your message.
10:46You dilute your creativity.
10:48You lose something.
10:49You lose the story
10:50because you're trying not to be lyrical miracle
10:52because pop sounds like this.
10:54This is how pop sounds.
10:56La, la, la, la, la, la.
10:57It's a hit.
10:58Who gives a fuck?
10:59Nobody knows who you are.
11:00Nobody cares.
11:01Nobody felt anything.
11:02Nobody's life changed.
11:04And I'm here to feel something.
11:06That's my intention.
11:07You feel me?
11:08You can turn on Love Island every night,
11:10but when you wanna feel something,
11:11you put on Malcolm X,
11:12one of the greatest movies of all fucking time.
11:15That's what I was trying to say.
11:16I'm glad that you said that
11:18because I think a lot of something that I've noticed
11:22is that people will use rap or hip hop
11:24as the not feeling genre,
11:27where it's like,
11:27when I really wanna make real music,
11:29I'm gonna do country or alt-rock
11:31or alternative or whatever.
11:33And it's just like,
11:34from where this genre was birthed from
11:36and what it is
11:38and all the artists that are in it currently,
11:41it's like, you're just,
11:43it's not for you.
11:44Let's go.
11:45Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
11:50uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
11:54uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh.
11:55USA.
11:56It's been described as like a panic attack
11:58a couple of times.
12:00It's actually a style from beat boxing
12:04inspired by Doug E. Fresh.
12:06A hip hop analyst would've recognized that.
12:10And so this was my attempt
12:11at that inspired by Doug E. Fresh.
12:13And I actually have a bunch of like,
12:15really cool, funny takes of me
12:18getting to this take.
12:20It was crazy and I wanna play it for you.
12:23Alright, let's go.
12:47I get the idea right there.
12:49there I do that and then I'm like oh shit let me just try that again I did
13:16woosah because in my head I was like oh my god this is gonna flow perfectly into
13:22catfish it's gonna be great but then I was like what if the beat keeps going
13:28and I keep doing like woosah and then I say the lyrics of catfish and then it
13:32comes in and Jada was like no don't do that she's like just bring the song in
13:36and so yeah I did it intentionally so that it could flow into the sequence and
13:40that's when I was like oh I'm building a sequence now I think I'm starting to get
13:43it first half of the project is very like locked into boom bap and I was like
13:48I'm finna rap y'all are gonna get it like hard back-to-back keep rapping and
13:54even when I did allow some opinions to come in cuz the boys on the label they
13:59were like nah you gotta space it out don't put it all back-to-back and I was
14:02like shut up Absol do you know the mixtapes that this label has bred shut
14:08up we're gonna rap it's gonna be fantastic sit tight
14:14now I'm making music what they didn't have valid they came in with valid
14:20points but it was also like the sequence intention was feel like feeling and it
14:25was also narrative these all make sense they're not gonna make sense we put this
14:29after slide yeah it's not like we're it's it was also like three days before
14:34we had to turn it in right it was like we got it now we got it like this feels
14:39good they were like don't give it to him like that just spread it I'm giving it
14:42to him like that it was not a lot of time to do a lot of things and my boy
14:50Brian Schwaller came and helped us out a lot towards the end like the last three
14:54days to help mix stuff but it was like you can't they're off-camera but their
14:58two chairs were put together she brought a comforter from her house a pillow a
15:03teacup Pomeranian puppy was just running around and it was just her
15:08passed out me mixing turning around waking her up being like hey does this
15:12sound good yeah sounds good went back to sleep next song and it was just kind of
15:16like that for like the last 72 hours yeah and then we turned it in I'm so
15:25tired it was very intense crash and even like having to re-record things or
15:35like I started my period like girl it was really stressful and then you have
15:41Musa top son I think you should put this song there you should put this up bro I
15:47haven't slept in two days the album has to be turned in and one day stop
15:51talking to me right now please no last-minute changes he got his pick
15:56though he wanted fireflies I didn't care for fireflies but I was like yeah
16:02whatever and I didn't want Beverly Hills either and that was Jada's pick and I
16:05was like that's fine please put this on the record like please I was like no
16:10let's just do two more rap songs like we don't need this nobody needs this the
16:15certain part of your fan base this is gonna scratch that itch I'm like just
16:18like these songs like wait girlies and Beverly I'm like this is like this is
16:23that genre of like me me this is me yeah yeah for the fans who like when I sing
16:30and they like when I get melodic I was like that's fine thank you live with
16:34that because I have 18 other rap songs I'm not tripping I am really delighted
16:39and blessed to see people consuming the music the way that I intended for them
16:43to consume it I love seeing how my fans are doing yoga to the project they're
16:48journaling to it I see them using the music over their vlogs and their journal
16:53entries and things like that and that's the purpose of it I just wanted to make
16:57music that puts you in a state of groundedness and makes you feel
17:02confident in your solitude and people are really embracing it that way and I
17:06think that that's good Wow it's only been a month this is really I feel so
17:11blessed by that like sometimes I'm very hard on myself about where I am but I my
17:17project is um I feel blessed it hasn't been that long I need to be more patient
17:21with myself I'm gonna say something but I want to say it directly to like the
17:26camera because I feel like there's gonna be like some up-and-coming artists who
17:30really needs to hear this you have to have somebody next to you that can
17:36remind you of who you are when you're doing these things because people have
17:41been doing it longer than you will sometimes try to convince you that you
17:47don't know what you're talking about and if you allow those voices even a little
17:52bit to get in the way you can doubt yourself and doubt breeds chaos and so
17:59still be a student be a student of yourself be a student of your craft but
18:04at the same time keep somebody next to you who can tell you and remind you of
18:08who you are and ground you in that yeah that's it it's really important in the
18:14creative process and there were a lot of ideas that I would have probably talked
18:17myself out of or allowed somebody else to talk me out of if Jada wasn't like
18:21no this is you this is a dope idea move forward with it shut up stop doubting
18:27yourself and keep going
18:38but I'm always on set