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00:00Welcome, you are watching The Big Story. The question over who will be the successor of
00:11the Tata Group has come to an end, that is the Tata Trust at least. Noel Tata has been
00:16appointed as the chair of the Tata Trust in a unanimous decision. Ratan Tata's brother
00:22will now lead the two trusts that control 66% shares in Tata Sons. Now Noel Tata has
00:28been a key figure in Tata Group's growth since the early 2000s, but reticent, not really
00:34in the public eye and has not preferred to be. He is the vice chairman of Tata Steel
00:40and watch company Titan. After Ratan Tata's death, the spotlight has turned to Noel Tata.
00:46But who is he and what could his leadership mean for the future of this global giant?
00:52Let's take a closer look. Aged 67, Noel began his career in the early 2000s and took on
01:00the role of chairman and managing director of Tata International in 2011, driving the
01:06group's global expansion. Under his leadership, Tata Trends' Zootio brand has made waves with
01:12affordable fashion. Beyond business, Noel's influence is anchored in his role as a trustee
01:18of Tata Trust, which holds over 65% of Tata Sons, the group's holding company.
01:24His leadership has recently extended to key positions at Titan and Tata Steel,
01:30further reinforcing his significance in driving the group's international strategy and future
01:35growth. With his deep ties to the Tata legacy and expanding global portfolio,
01:41Noel is emerging as a pivotal figure in the conglomerate's next chapter.
01:46All right, Sajith Mangat also joining me in and we're going to, in the course of this show,
01:53try to understand what this change means, what it means for the legacy of the Tata group. Sajith,
01:59I think that becomes important and whether this makes any real difference to the running of the
02:05Tata companies. Let me start with the second part first, because I think that's of wide interest.
02:10Does anything really change in the way or the direction in which Tata companies are on?
02:15It does not change because two years ago, there was a clear demarcation with respect to the
02:22responsibilities and who will head the philanthropy, which is through Tata Trust and who will be
02:28heading Tata Sons. And that is what exactly, you know, the change meant. In 2022, there was a
02:37resolution which was passed by Tata Sons and which is sponsored by Sir Dharavi Tata Trust and Sir
02:43Ratan Tata Trust that as long as Tata Sons or the Tata Trust holds at least 40% stake in Tata Sons,
02:57the chairman of Tata Sons will be separate and the chairman of Tata Trust will be separate.
03:04There will not be any member of the Tata Trust, could be a board of director of Tata Sons,
03:11but he can never be the chairman of the board of Tata Sons. So that's the demarcation which
03:17came into place. It also gave special rights to both the trusts because as part of the committee
03:23which will select the chairman of Tata Sons, there will be three nominees which will come
03:29from the two trusts. There will be one nominee who will be the existing board of directors
03:33and the fifth one will be an independent person from outside who will come as part of the entire
03:41selection process for the selection of the chairman of the Tata Sons. So it basically,
03:45you know, makes clear walls on the responsibility that Tata Sons has with respect to its companies
03:54that it governs and the stakeholders and Tata Trust, what is the philosophy and the charter
04:00they have set out. So it's church and state, that kind of a wall in place now. All right,
04:06let's go across now to someone who knows the workings of the Tata Group very well,
04:11has known Ratan Tata very well and closely, Sohail Seth, founder and managing partner at
04:15Council Age India is with us now. Sohail, thank you for taking out the time and speaking with us
04:20here at NDTV Profit. And you know, it's a bit of a poignant conversation because till 24 hours ago,
04:27we were all talking about a loss, which in a way, so many people felt personally,
04:33even if they didn't know Mr. Ratan Tata, but everyone felt like they lost something.
04:37And today we're talking about what next and I suppose such is life. But give us a sense,
04:44is this something that was always on the cards because it's been done very smoothly
04:49without any fuss in a very short period of time. So as you said, and you alluded to the church
04:56and the state, which by the way, I'm glad you did. It's a long forgotten analogy.
05:01This was very clear and it was also equally clear to everyone that the transition would be smooth.
05:09It would be respectful and it would be dignified, much like Ratan Tata led his life,
05:16much like I can tell you, I've known Sohail for years and there is no one better than Sohail
05:22Nawal Tata to take over from those gigantic shoes for three reasons. One is he understands the
05:30workings of the Tata group because he's worked in the Tata group for ages, unlike any of the
05:35other trustees who are there today. Melli Mistry, to my mind, is the only other person who has been
05:44close to Ratan Tata and who has seen the group evolve. Nawal Tata, to my mind, taking over
05:53ensures two things, as your colleague was also saying. See, Tata Sons has been led formidably
06:00by N Chandrasekharan and for anyone, everyone should know that Ratan Tata was relieved when
06:08N Chandrasekharan took over as Chairman Tata Sons and his relief was vindicated and continues to
06:14be vindicated in the performance of Tata Sons. That separation was needed and was made in 2022
06:21and today you've seen it's smooth, it's dignified and it's swift because the trusts are what the
06:29business of Tata's was all about. The founders created this enterprise only with a view of
06:35giving back to society for the greater good, as was often said. When Jamshedji, Nasarbandji Tata
06:41began, then Dorab Tata took over, it was very clear that they were in the business of serving
06:48humanity, of serving society and therefore I'm delighted. I just sent Nawal a message,
06:56then I spoke to him. I said, the beauty is that Ratan Tata will be smiling from the heavens
07:03because you'll have done exactly what he would have wanted you to do. You have done it with grace,
07:09you have done it with a sense of continuity and an even greater commitment to purpose.
07:15What better way could there have been? You of course knew and did the last very detailed
07:25interview with Ratan Tata as well. Is this something that you always had in mind
07:30that Nawal would take over this role? So let me tell you one thing about Mr. Tata.
07:37I never ever discussed it with him but I knew it was coming the day Nawal was appointed as
07:44trustee on the two major trusts. And let me also say, the children, whether it is Neville or Leah
07:51or Maya, they are exactly, they are an imprint of the Tata family and the Tata way of life.
07:58So when even the kids got on, I mean in my heart I knew and after Nawal and the kids got on,
08:05I did tell Mr. Tata, I said it's such a great thing that there will be continuity, that there
08:11will be people who will be happy. You know, remember all said and done, Tabanna, I'm delighted
08:19that there's a Parsi at the head. I'm totally delighted. I'm not a communal or a discriminator
08:27but I think it's a good thing because even in Nawal, you have decency, you have grace.
08:34Nawal has been extremely, all his life he's been low-key. And all the people who said,
08:38oh but Nawal is running this company, today see where Zudio is, see where Trent is,
08:43see where Tata Retail is. You know, it says a lot about character when you succeed and embrace
08:49success with grace, with dignity and with some quietude. And that to my mind is, I'm delighted.
08:57On the one hand, I'm deeply sad about what happened and how we've lost, to my mind, a giant
09:04of a man. And on the other hand, I'm delighted because I know he too will be wherever he is
09:11and he'll heave a sigh of relief. And I'm sure even Chandra who, as I said, has done a formidable
09:19job of leading Tata Sons, he too will be happy because what would Chandra want? He would want
09:25the dividend that Tata Sons goes out, goes to a trust which is headed by a human being who will
09:31ensure the benefits are provided in multifarious ways to society at large. Sohail, Sajid here.
09:41Do you think Nawal will be able to push the philanthropy much more aggressively across
09:48through the society? Mr. Tata has created many institutions over the last two decades.
09:53Do you see Nawal also going that part and creating newer institutions for the society?
10:02Absolutely. And I wouldn't use the word aggressive because that is not part of the
10:07lexicon in the Tata way of life. But he will do it. Please remember, when Nawal started out,
10:14everyone doubted, oh, will retail do this? He's done it. He's done it with aplomb.
10:22He's taken the footprint globally. Also remember that with Tata International, he was already the
10:27global face of the house of Tata way before. Way, way before. You know, the fact that he's vice
10:34chairman Tata Steel, he's on the board of Titan means that he's intricately even involved with
10:38the running of some of the operating companies of Tata Sons. So I don't think the word is
10:44aggressive. What had happened was, and Sajid this is an important message for your viewers also to
10:49know, that at one point in time, Tata Trust had begun to do a lot of things. And what Mr. Tata did
10:55was he assimilated all of that. He then made it pretty coordinated, driven through verticals.
11:02And those are continuing to do work. And they're doing amazing work. For instance,
11:07Nawal is as committed to cancer centers as Mr. Tata was, as Ratan was. So I see absolutely
11:14not even a blip in the manner that this whole thing has happened. And I can tell you,
11:20it's good for the house of Tata. It's even better for our country.
11:25You know, just on that part, Nawal Tata's commitment to some of the same causes that
11:33the Tata Trust has taken forward and personally, Ratan Tata was committed to, so the Cancer Trust.
11:38But what are his own sort of very near and dear issues? So for example, Mr. Ratan Tata,
11:45very passionate about animal rights and has worked towards things like that.
11:51Is there something to your knowledge that Nawal would want to focus on in the philanthropic
11:57scale while of course, continuing all the good work that's taking place?
12:00I think, Nawal, if you know Nawal as I do, Nawal is a very, very strategic human being.
12:08He is going to be as committed to the small animals hospital and to animal welfare as
12:13Ratan Tata was. To expect a carbon copy would be unfair on both Mr. Tata and on Nawal. Please
12:20remember that Nawal was part of the trust when many of these decisions that you are talking about
12:26came to fruition. So I don't see any departure. I can only tell you one thing, Tamanna,
12:34that with Nawal there, with Melli there, Nawal being the half-brother, being a Tata,
12:40Melli being the person who was the closest confidant of Ratan Tata, I see continuity.
12:47I see the same level of commitment rather than the word aggression. And I see the same level
12:52and exactitude in terms of purpose.
12:59In terms of what the relationship was, and I know it's sounding a little intrusive,
13:04Sunil, but believe me, people, this is such a private family and people just want to know,
13:07which is why I'm asking, what was the kind of relationship equation between
13:12Ratan Tata and Nawal Tata? Did they work together often? How was it?
13:20It was good. I mean, there are people who will cast dispersions on everyone. I mean,
13:26even your family, my family, oh, do you talk to your brother? When was the last time you had
13:29dinner with him? All that kind of nonsense. But they were together. And let me tell you,
13:34Ratan was deeply, deeply, deeply fond of Nawal's children as well, whether it was
13:41Leah or Maya or Nawal. Nawal, he took to Nawal like you can't imagine. You know, sometimes I
13:49used to joke. In fact, at times I would joke to Nawal that, you know, what if R&D skips a
13:55generation? Just jokingly. You know, that was the buzz. It's funny you say that, Sahil, but that was
14:01the buzz. It's utter rubbish. Let me tell you, Ratan Tata loved Nawal deeply. Did he have some
14:08issues? He may have. He never shared them. So anyone who tells you, oh, Mr. Tata told me that
14:13he had this issue or that issue, is lying. Because Mr. Tata wasn't that kind of person.
14:17He wasn't, you know, a gossip producer. He wasn't the kind of person who'd say, oh,
14:22but I don't agree with him, blah, blah, blah. Let's not forget. And this I don't know if you
14:26remember. After October 24, 2016, when Cyrus was asked to resign, he didn't and he was
14:34thrown out. There were EGMs held in all the operating companies. There was also an EGM held
14:40for Tata's sons. And guess who spoke in the most vociferously organized, committed manner?
14:49Nawal Tata. Nawal Tata spoke against the value desecration and the value degradation that had
14:57happened at the house of Tata by his own brother-in-law. Give the man some credit.
15:03Nawal Tata could have easily just kept quiet. But that's why I'm telling you the same seeds
15:10of a principled approach, of firmness, of courage are in Nawal as they were in Ratan.
15:18And what about the working relationship between Nawal Tata and N. Chandra?
15:24Of course, now completely, they already work together. But now in this capacity.
15:30Again, excellent. I was there yesterday at NCPA. You should have seen the way Chandra and
15:35Nawal were. You know, I'm from theatre. I've done 167 plays, Tamannaah. I know a thing or two about
15:41body language. You can immediately make out how body language is. Always close. Please remember,
15:48Chandra is, and you know this, you run a business, Chandra is a formidable professional.
15:54And he also is in the same grain of decency and dignity. These are not people, you know,
16:00who are thapodis or, you know, lauwa. They're not like riffraff. These are decent people.
16:06They know how to behave. They have grace. They have dignity. Also, please understand,
16:13Nawal was already on the trusts. Chandra has been Chairman Tata since February 2017.
16:19They have an excellent relationship. My advice to all these people who fill your years and the
16:24years of a million other people is, rather than fill yours, why don't you have them cleaned?
16:29We always hear the wrong things. And let me tell you, this is a great relationship.
16:34It will be a great partnership. And Sajid and Tamannaah on October 11, 2025, do a one-year
16:42anniversary show on Nawal Tata's first year at Tata Trust. And we'll be still saying the
16:48same things. We will be still talking about purpose. We'll talk about integrity. We'll talk
16:53about commitment. We'll talk about the greater good. And we'll talk about giving back in great
16:59measure. I hope we will be able to convince him to come on camera and talk about this.
17:03That is your problem. I'm not your guest in Nations Executive yet.
17:06No, I was going to invite you back a year from now.
17:11If I'm alive, I will be there.
17:12Oh, God. Willing, of course, you will be. But thank you so much, Suhail. Always a pleasure
17:17to chat. Thank you for taking out the time and speaking with us.
17:20Thank you so much. Lovely Sajid, lovely Tamannaah. Thank you so much. And let me tell you,
17:26today is a very, very happy day on the back of an extremely sad day.
17:32But then after every dark night, there's a springing dawn.
17:38And the way things were handled was with great dignity. Thank you so much.
17:42In fact, let me go across to Pallavi Nahata, my colleague, who's at the World Trade Center,
17:47where that meeting was taking place, where the decision was taken. This is the offices
17:52of the Tata Trust in Mumbai. Yes, Pallavi. We're here outside the World Trade Center.
17:59Very short while back, Noel Tata was appointed as Ratan Tata's successor. The Tata Trust board
18:07meet was underway. And the reason this is critical is because the ownership of Tata Sons
18:14is largely held by two key trusts, that is the Sir Ratan Tata Trust and the Sir Durabji Tata Trust,
18:20which together comprise over half of the ownership of Tata Sons. Noel Tata was being seen as a
18:27frontrunner for the position. And he was already in both the Sir Ratan Tata Trust as well as in
18:36the Sir Durabji Tata Trust. Today as well, we did not manage to get a bite from him. He continues
18:42to remain media shy. But of the little we do know about him is the various positions he has held
18:48in the Tata group of companies so far. He currently chairs several companies within
18:55the Tata portfolio. These include Trent, Tata International, Voltas. He's also vice chairman
19:01of Tata Steel and Titan, and has been instrumental in the conglomerate's growth
19:07since the early 2000s. His leadership experience did of course, put him in a good place for
19:16becoming a successor in the Tata leadership hierarchy, a step towards which we saw today.
19:22Okay, H.P. Ranina with us, Lawyers Supreme Court to speak more on the significance really of this
19:29shift in a sense. Mr. Ranina, thank you so much for joining us and we appreciate you taking up
19:34the time. We just want to understand what the role of the Tata Trust is in the big picture,
19:40because a lot of our viewers would be wondering if Tata Trust is largely a philanthropic
19:48organization, does it really matter who's at the helm? Why don't you start there?
19:53Why does this really matter? Yeah, Kamana, thank you for having me on the show.
19:58I think Tata Trusts have a role to play, the role which the founder Jamshed Tata laid down, namely
20:06that you create wealth and you share the wealth with the community. So Tata Trust shares the
20:13wealth which is created by the Tata group of companies. And that is why this correlation
20:19between Tata Trust and Tata group of companies is so crucial. It's not just control, it's not just
20:25management. Management is diverse. It is entirely in the hands of professionals in the Tata group,
20:31which is headed by Chandrasekhar. But apart from that, the Tata Trust makes sure that whatever
20:37profits are generated and received by the dividends by the Tata Trust are spent for the good of the
20:43community, for the country at large. And this is why the Tata Trusts have been so good in making
20:49sure that not only do they spend money in India, but now they've even diversely gone abroad,
20:54it's done charities abroad and a lot of during the COVID period. And the Tata Trusts are now
21:01fulfilling the real objective for which the Tata companies were set up, namely not private profit,
21:07but social good. And that is where the Tata Trusts remain as the prime factor, the prime
21:14agent for pursuing the goal of the founders of the Tata family.
21:21Mr. Ranjana, when Mr. Tata took over the Trust and he brought in professional management in place
21:31to manage the day-to-day affairs of the Trust activities, because there were around 14 Trusts
21:37were under the two, Sir Daurabji and Sir Ratan Tata Trust. Do you see a much more evolution
21:47of this entire structure going forward under Noel Tata as he takes over the reigns of
21:54philanthropy for the Tata group? That's true. What you're saying is right.
21:59Professionalism has to be brought in all charitable Trusts. It is a fallacy to think
22:03that charitable Trusts should be run by just family members. Professionalism has to be brought
22:09in. And one of the professionals who has recently been brought in is Melli Mistry, who was very
22:14close to Mr. Ratan Tata. And Melli is virtually doing a fantastic job looking after the day-to-day
22:20affairs. Because don't forget, Noel has his hands full. He is already looking after so many
22:27companies. And to expect one individual to look after also the Trust may be very difficult.
22:33And therefore, the professionalism has set in. Melli Mistry is now looking after these Trusts.
22:39Noel's younger children, Leah, Maya and Neville are also being brought in to the other Trusts.
22:45So in the next five to seven years, they will be making sure that the Trusts are run entirely on
22:50professional lines and the objects of the Trust have to be further. Because Trusts also have to
22:56produce the results. It's not just spending money. You have to make sure that the money is properly
23:03spent and it goes for the object for which it is spent. And you get real value for the rupee
23:08when you do spend money for a charitable purpose. So that is where professionalism comes in. And
23:14that is where I think the Tata Trust will have to play a very crucial role. Professionalized
23:19charitable activities. Mr. Ranina, if you look at the Trust, for the first time I'm seeing Trust
23:27putting out its entire annual report out where it's spending its money, in which sectors is
23:32spending money, whether it is in institutions, whether it's to individuals for education or
23:38health. You know, this kind of transparency is something which should be adopted by other
23:45charity organizations going forward. And while this is a beginning, you know, we're seeing also
23:51corporatization of philanthropy in one man, you know, in a good way in that sense that it
23:56bringing more professional people into this field. Do you see a further fill up
24:04coming in to this kind of transparency and the way philanthropy has to move forward
24:10in ensuring that, you know, it delivers to the society? Yes, I think Tata Trust should be the
24:15role model for every charitable trust in India and outside India. It should be the role model
24:21for everybody to follow. And that is where I'm very confident that under Noel Tata and Melody
24:26Mistry and the others, this will be the primary charitable institution, not only of India, but
24:34globally. And this is how India comes into the global scenario. Today India is now
24:41going to become a global power. Global power not only in terms of, you know, wealth, not only in
24:47terms of industry, not only in terms of technology, not only in terms of computer sciences, but also
24:53in terms of charitable institutions. And this is where Tata Trust will now play a very crucial role
24:59in making India a global power, even on the philanthropy stage.
25:03Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much, Mr. Ranina for speaking with us and
25:07to all our viewers tuning in. Thank you so much for joining us. What we've done,
25:11we attempted to do through this show is just explain to you how important this big shift is.
25:17It's a paradigm in the sense, an end of an era. And of course, the beginning of a new one
25:21with Mr. Noel Tata at the helm. Thank you for watching.