London Mayor Sadiq Khan sits down with London Standard Editor Dylan Jones to talk all things theatre, arts and culture.
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00:00How has London managed to retain its crown as the theatre capital of the world?
00:04Why is that?
00:05How? Because you mentioned people thinking about leaving,
00:08thankfully in the theatre world they're not.
00:10From the Macintoshes to the Underlord Robbers,
00:13these are people who invest Sonia Friedman in our great theatres.
00:17And one of the points I made to the previous government that frustrated me
00:21is that it realised the impact we have for the good around the country.
00:24Because we subsidise theatre, national theatre,
00:27ballet, royal opera, English National Ballet,
00:31but also the commercial theatre.
00:32And that enables these shows to take place around the country.
00:35The previous government turned the taps off in relation to many of our,
00:39from the Donmar to E&B and so forth,
00:42which caused English National Opera House as well,
00:44which was big, big problems.
00:47And so I'm hoping working with the government,
00:48we can carry on the genius of London again.
00:50The biggest reason we've got the best theatre in the world
00:53is because of the pipeline of artists, the writers.
00:56And so forth.
00:57That pipeline has slowed down, combination of pandemic,
01:00but also the inability of people to,
01:03from ordinary backgrounds, to afford to be freelancers.
01:06Because often, you know this better than I do
01:08because of the friends you've got,
01:09you're often out of work in between jobs.
01:12And so unless you've got, again, banker mum and dad or middle class families,
01:14it's a big risk to take.
01:16During the pandemic we saw many freelancers getting jobs in Tesco's
01:19or other places because they needed to pay their bills
01:21or their mortgage and so forth.
01:23So the great news is those in the commercial theatre
01:26understand the ecosystem,
01:27understand the importance of the pipeline,
01:29and it's really important.
01:30And so I speak often to Americans on Broadway,
01:33not Broadway, and they say,
01:34ours is the best theatre that there is in the globe.
01:37We've got to carry on that pipeline going really important.
01:39Americans never say that.
01:41No, I'm going to Akram Khan's Giselle this week at Sadler's Wells.
01:45I'm really pleased we're moving Sadler's Wells to East Bank,
01:48the new East Bank, right?
01:49Good example of bringing culture to underserved communities.
01:53The BBC is going to move there as well.
01:54V&A is moving there.
01:56You go to other countries around the world, including America.
01:59Theatre is quite far away from ordinary folk, not in London.
02:04What makes a good Londoner?
02:06Oh, good question.
02:10I've always thought, and I talk about this a lot,
02:13something I call the London promise,
02:14which is you work hard, you get a helping hand,
02:16you can achieve anything.
02:18I think what makes a good Londoner is that work ethic,
02:21wanting to do well.
02:22Nobody comes here to sit on their bum.
02:24You want to do well.
02:25Whatever job you do, you want to give your utmost.
02:28But also in London, I think what we do,
02:30which is really remarkable when I visit other parts of the country,
02:33other parts of the world,
02:33is we don't simply tolerate difference.
02:36We respect it, we embrace it, we celebrate it,
02:39which is very different to tolerating difference.
02:41You know, you tolerate a toothache or a backache.
02:43I don't really tolerate it as somebody who's different.
02:45And that's a lovely joy of being a Londoner.
02:50You understand that when it comes to being a Londoner.
02:52You talk about culture, and it is the city's greatest IP, I think.
02:56But what can we do to protect its growth?
02:59Because you've discussed the problem.
03:03Apart from subsidies, which is not likely, not at the moment,
03:08what can we do to protect it?
03:09Oh, lots of things we can do.
03:10Look, park subsidy, we've got to protect our venues,
03:14really important.
03:15So what we've done in our London plan is,
03:17if you're, as a developer, and I work in development,
03:21want to build new homes, and on that piece of land,
03:26there happens to be a theatre or a live music venue,
03:29you're now required, if you want to build homes,
03:32to keep a venue there.
03:34The heritage of our culture sector is sacrosanct.
03:37So that's a new condition we've put into the London plan.
03:39Includes pubs, by the way.
03:41You speak to Ed Sheeran, the number of gigs he played in pubs
03:44before he became famous is remarkable.
03:46He played 100 pub gigs in the year
03:48before he got a record deal.
03:49So we've got to preserve what we have.
03:51Really, really important.
03:52Don't take it for granted that that would have happened,
03:55but for our intervention in the plan.
03:58Secondly, we've got to make sure we give people role models.
04:01You can't be if you can't see it.
04:03We've got to be talking up our Ed Sheerans, our Adeles,
04:06Idries Elbows, and so forth.
04:08Thirdly, we've got to give them a helping hand
04:09in relation to opportunities, whether it's
04:12venues to perform in, or whether it's schools like the Brit,
04:15whether it's one of Keir's passions to make sure
04:17children who can't afford to play an instrument at schools
04:19get to play an instrument at school,
04:20because you never know who the next Idries Elbow is going to be,
04:24who the next Adele is going to be,
04:27who the next Ed Sheeran is going to be.
04:28By giving everyone an opportunity,
04:30free musical instruments, we've got the music fund,
04:34which gives you free tuition.
04:35If you're somebody who's gifted and talented and so forth,
04:37that's really important.
04:38Now, your pipelines are very good,
04:40but you talk about culture and you espouse culture,
04:44and I firmly believe that you believe what you say,
04:46but culture is not part of this government's manifesto.
04:49They've been very quiet on culture.
04:51And if you look at what happened with the likes of Bailey Gifford,
04:54where they were forced to withdraw funding from Hay,
04:57from Cheltenham, from Edinburgh, et cetera, et cetera,
05:00there are only so many Vivian Duffields in this world.
05:02Where is this money going to come from
05:04to support all these small arts institutions?
05:07Okay, I'll come to sponsorship in a second.
05:08And the final part of your answer about culture is,
05:11we've got to celebrate success.
05:12It's a very British thing,
05:14is we talk people down rather than putting them on a pedestal.
05:16We've got to celebrate the successes there are
05:18of people successful in British culture.
05:20One of the projects we had was unpack the credits.
05:23So if you go to the cinema, you have all these credits at the end.
05:27How many people know in our city, across the country,
05:29that actually a successful film requires accountants and carpenters
05:33and costume makers and so forth and so on?
05:35So that's part of the equation as well.
05:37Relation to finance in culture,
05:39there are some things which have got to wash their face,
05:43some things that need to make a profit,
05:45some things that need to be subsidized,
05:47whether it's a taxpayer,
05:49very difficult because of the state of the economy we've inherited,
05:52or the private sector, really important in my view.
05:55There are questions about the sort of sponsorship
05:57that cultural places take money from.
06:03That's really a question for them.
06:04I think it's wrong for me as a politician
06:06to dictate to you who's somebody trying to make ends meet,
06:09trying to build an extension to your gallery and so forth,
06:13what you can and what you can't do.
06:14I think examples, by the way,
06:15of the fashion week holding events in the National Theatre,
06:17in the Tate, in the Cupbox, is great.
06:20Why? Because people around the globe
06:22see these wonderful jewels in our crown.
06:25It brings people in, brings footfall in.
06:27But you speak to Trist at the V&A.
06:30He's got a really good model,
06:32where he's also got some shows, some exhibitions,
06:34where you've got to pay for,
06:36whether it's the current Naomi Campbell show, whatever.
06:42That helps cross-subsidise other parts of the V&A.
06:45You speak to Lloyd Dorfman at the Royal Opera House.
06:48He relies a huge amount on philanthropy, as you know,
06:51as well as patrons paying for theatre prices there.
06:54I am concerned though, and it's been said by actors as well,
06:58the cost of tickets has gone up and up and up.
07:01The reason why it's gone up and up and up, frankly speaking,
07:02is because they've got to make ends meet.
07:04And that's a real source of concern.
07:05So we're working with theatres, by the way,
07:07things like the Monday deal,
07:08and other deals to make sure theatre's accessible
07:11to people from different backgrounds.
07:12I've always instinctively felt that London
07:15is a far more exciting city than New York.
07:18Do you agree?
07:19Absolutely.
07:19I mean, I always tease whenever I see
07:21whether it's Eric Adams or Mike Bloomberg
07:23or Bill de Blasio or Giuliani, I always say,
07:26you know, listen, it must be great
07:28being the mayor of the second-right city in the world.
07:30But also, look, a number of things, you know,
07:33were bigger in terms of population,
07:35were more diverse in terms of not just ethnicity and religion,
07:40but look at our city, it's not just finance,
07:42it's not just higher education,
07:42it's not just culture, it's not just tech,
07:44it's not just life sciences,
07:46it's, you know, think of the languages and so forth.
07:48But also post-pandemic, you know,
07:51say it's not in a sort of jingoistic nationalist way,
07:54our recovery compared to New York's
07:56is, you know, just chalk and cheese.
07:58Many women and some men I know
08:01think you're a sex symbol.
08:02Discuss.
08:04The people you speak to have got great taste.
08:07No, listen, it's obviously very sweet and stuff.
08:10I saw, by the way, brag that you put me
08:14the 48th best-dressed man in GQ of the year.
08:18So yeah, I'm sure that was a mistake.
08:20I'm sure that was a mistake.
08:22I was out of a tiny temper.