Boris Johnson: These ‘stereotypes’ about Trump are wrong
CNN’s Jake Tapper speaks with former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson about his new book, “Unleashed.” #CNN #News
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NewsTranscript
00:00And joining me now from London, former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson, Prime
00:04Minister Johnson, thanks so much for being here and congratulations on your
00:08new book. Before we get to that, I do want to ask you questions about some breaking
00:12news here in the U.S. There's some new reporting on Bob Woodward's new book
00:15revealing some very very candid behind-the-scenes conversations between
00:19world leaders. In the book, President Biden reportedly calls the Israeli Prime
00:23Minister a quote, son of a bitch and a quote, bad effing guy. You've met with
00:28President Biden at the White House. Does that ring a bell? Does that sound
00:30familiar? Well, look, I had great relations with Joe Biden and you know
00:37the job of the UK PM is to, the Prime Minister says, have good relations with all
00:40American presidents. You know, all I can say is I think that in the normal
00:48stresses and strains of alliance and friendships between the UK and Israel,
00:53the U.S. and Israel, you'd expect people occasionally to use intemperate
00:58language, but I don't think that really undermines the strength of our
01:02commitment. CNN is also reporting that in Woodward's book, according to a Trump
01:07aide, there have been multiple phone calls between former President Trump and
01:11Vladimir Putin, maybe as many as seven since Trump left the White House in
01:152021. What's your reaction to that? Well, I don't know if that's true and I certainly
01:23not privy to the contents of those sorts of conversations. What I can tell
01:27our viewers is that when I had dealings with President Trump over Russia, like
01:32when the Russians poisoned people in the UK, it was actually the Trump
01:37administration that really, you know, exceeded expectations. They
01:44expelled 60 Russian spies. It was the Trump administration that actually gave
01:49Ukrainians lethal weaponry, the Javelin missiles to use against Putin's
01:57troops. So, you know, people take their pick about this. I'd be interested to
02:03know what those conversations contained, if indeed they took place.
02:08As would I. Let's turn to your book, of course. You have some... you take aim at some of
02:16your political rivals with colorful name-calling. You call some of the
02:20ministers you appointed to your cabinet, quote, homicidal maniacs. You call your
02:24predecessor, Theresa May, quote, old grumpy knickers. You describe your most
02:28recent successor, Keir Starmer, as having a face that is, quote, like a bullock
02:32having a thermometer unexpectedly shoved in its rectum, unquote. What do you say
02:39to a critic who might say, isn't that kind of language better left behind the
02:43scenes, as much as readers might enjoy it? For someone like me, Jake, for
02:49someone in my position, this is a story, really, Unleashed is a story
02:54of belief in Britain. It really covers a 15-year period in world politics.
02:59There's some pretty tough, some big issues that I try to expand for
03:06readers, whether it's Brexit or the Middle East or Ukraine or whatever. I try
03:12to really take people into the room. And look, I make no apology for
03:18trying to make it readable. And I think that's the fundamental... it's no
03:24earthly good, me having all sorts of opinions, if they're not presented
03:29in a way that people want to get through. What do you make of some of the
03:34reviews which have been not particularly nice, including, quote, how not
03:39to write a political memoir, memoirs of a clown, a memoir that's twisted, sour and
03:44full of yet more lies, quote, he's a gossipy bitch. I'm just quoting here.
03:49What was your reaction? I mean, obviously, you spent some time on this memoir.
03:54Thank you, Jake, for... Well, I've got to tell you that before this
04:00interview, I'm sadly neglected to read those reviews. I've read some quite nice
04:05ones myself. And there are plenty of people who seem to be buying the book
04:10and we're doing very well. So, you know, I think your viewers will know
04:18that a lot of people in the UK political media establishment who
04:24disagreed with me about some of the key things that we did, they disagree with me
04:30about Brexit, they might disagree with me about Israel and the Middle East, they might
04:34disagree about all sorts of things. And, you know, they, you know, I think it's
04:41it's hard for them to criticize me for being occasionally using a colourful
04:46turn of phrase if, you know, they're going to be abusive themselves.
04:52I think that it is overall a gentle, optimistic and uplifting book which also
04:58gives an account of some very difficult times for the West. It's about
05:04believing in Britain, believing in British independence, believing in the
05:07transatlantic alliance with America and trying to be candid about what happened.
05:14On former President Trump, you wrote about watching the 2016 election results
05:19and you write, quote, some part of me, maybe just the lizard part, really wanted
05:25Trump to win. We're just a few weeks away from a presidential election, the
05:31third one in a row that Donald Trump is running. Does that same lizard part of
05:35you want him to win?
05:37Well, I think I also said that the mammalian cortex of my brain
05:42appeared to be for Hillary or whatever. I can't really, you'd have to, I urge readers
05:45to go to Unleashed. Look, what I think I would say about the current
05:52presidential contest is, you know, I think I met Kamala Harris once and
05:56actually had a good meeting with her, and I said this many times and I
06:00think I've said it to you before, I think when it comes to some of the
06:03foreign policy questions, which I really used to deal with Donald Trump on, he
06:09really did surprise on the upside. And when it came to Syria, he was the guy
06:15when, you know, I'm afraid Democrat administrations did not punish Bashar
06:19al-Assad for using chemical weapons against his own people. Donald Trump did.
06:25And after that, Assad never used chemical weapons again. He took out
06:30Qasem Soleimani, the head of the IRGC, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, Qods
06:35Force, and a lot of people were panicked. It turned out to be the right thing.
06:41Again, on Ukraine, as I've said, it was Trump who surprised on the upside by
06:46giving the Ukrainians the shoulder-launched Javelin anti-tank
06:50weaponry. And, you know, it's not for a UK prime minister, former prime
07:00minister, to get involved in US domestic politics, but I think that those points
07:06should be heard, because I think some of the stereotype about Donald Trump is
07:12not right.
07:15Fair enough, but he's also talking about wanting to end the war in Ukraine, and he
07:22says he could end it in a day, and he seems to not be particularly supportive
07:26of the Ukrainian fight. And that must concern you, because I know you feel that
07:33freedom and liberty is on the line, and that if Russia takes any part of Ukraine,
07:40that will be bad for the West.
07:43Well, we've discussed that before. And, you know, again, I really think that, see
07:48what he does, see what he does, because were he to get elected, because, you
07:55know, I don't know how he would propose to fix it in a day. I don't know what the
08:01plan might be. But what I do think is plausible is his assertion that if he'd
08:08been in the White House in 2022, it might not have happened, or the full invasion
08:13of Ukraine, the appalling invasion that we saw in February 24th, 2022. I think
08:19it's plausible of him to say that that wouldn't have happened. And I think, you
08:23know, big picture, what is my instinct about what a Trump presidency is going
08:29to want to do in the first few weeks and months? Are they going to want to see the
08:37West go down in Ukraine? Are they going to want to see NATO go down? Are they
08:42going to want to see Putin triumph? You know, I don't think so. And I don't think
08:47it's going to be any part of a presidency that wants to make America
08:52great again, to make the Soviet Empire great again.
08:56Lastly, sir, you wrote about the Queen that, quote, I had known for a year or more
09:08that she had a form of bone cancer, and her doctors were worried that at any
09:12time she could enter a sharp decline. And one thing I wonder, and this is just an
09:17observer from across the pond here, but there is such an opaque refusal to
09:24disclose from the royal family. We still don't know what's going on with King
09:31Charles in terms of the details of what he is fighting. And I wonder if you think
09:38that's kind of anachronistic. These are very important figures to the UK and to
09:44America as well. Should they not be more transparent when they have illnesses,
09:50especially if it's an illness, that awareness of it could actually help the
09:55public? Well, look, I think that anybody is entitled to their
10:02confidentiality about their health. And the only reason I wrote that about Her
10:07Late Majesty the Queen was because it was about the particular illness she
10:11suffered from was because it was already in the public domain, but from a royal
10:17authority much more expert than me. And, you know, if you read
10:23Unleashed, I was trying to get over the extraordinary contribution she had
10:30to make to our lives over a record-breaking 70-year reign, and what
10:36an honor it was to talk to her. I think Barack Obama once said that of all
10:41the kings, queens, presidents, prime ministers, foreign politicians he'd ever
10:47met, she was the most impressive. And it was incredible to go and see her for an
10:54hour every week and, you know, to pour out your troubles and to listen to this
11:00great fund of learning and wisdom about the 20th, 21st century. And I'll give
11:09you... I don't know whether Americans are remotely worried about magpies. You
11:13worried about magpies, Jake? You worried about seeing a single magpie? Okay, well
11:18then this point is going to be lost on our audience. But if you're
11:22worried about seeing a single magpie, she had a very good system for
11:28dispelling your phobia. And you just have to tell the magpie, good morning Mr.
11:34magpie, today is the whatever it is, the 8th of October 2024, and there you go.
11:42Then you don't need to see another magpie. Sorry, this doesn't work for
11:46anybody who's not scared of seeing a single magpie, but I'm just telling you
11:49anyway. If you are, if there's any viewers who are worried about
11:56seeing a single magpie, I'm giving you a tip from the top, from Her Majesty the
12:00Queen, about how not to worry about it. That is news you can use, and I
12:05appreciate it, and I appreciate you joining us, former Prime Minister Boris
12:09Johnson. Always good to see you. The memoir Unleashed will be released in the U.S. on October 22nd.
12:14Best of luck with it, sir. Thank you, sir.