Did the Bruins lose leverage with Swayman, after dealing Ullmark? Should they have waited to deal Linus?
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00:00As Curtis would say, or was saying earlier, any leverage that they might have had with Jeremy Swayman
00:07by trading Linus Ohlmark before they got a deal done with Jeremy Swayman.
00:13And I guess the explanation, Curtis, is that they both wanted to play 55 games.
00:19And so that was going to be impossible here going forward.
00:23Well, of course. I mean, I think everybody agreed with the decision, or at least speaking for myself,
00:28I agree completely that you choose Swayman over Linus.
00:31And I just think that there is a component on the human side that Neely and Sweeney whiffed on,
00:40which was how personally Swayman took the arbitration.
00:44We talked about it at length last summer, Greg,
00:48when the team and Swayman clearly had created a dumpster fire when negotiating against their future goaltender.
00:57And so you sit here now, and the reason Cam Neely is doing what he did yesterday is because he doesn't have any leverage now.
01:04So he's doing the work of the organization by getting the fan base to rip the goalie to get back on the ice.
01:12Yeah, listen, we disagree about this.
01:15I think what Cam Neely is doing yesterday is giving an explanation to the fans
01:21and allowing you inside what's been going on when you're dealing, in my opinion, with an agent who is sketchy
01:31and is willing to say and do anything to get his client a $10, $11 million a year deal.
01:39This agent currently has over a quarter of a billion dollars in contracts in the NHL.
01:43So he is an incredibly talented and popular guy for NHL players.
01:49I don't think Neely is stupid enough to give a number when he knows the agent is going to come out and say,
01:54this is the first I'm hearing of it.
01:56Unless there's actually been talks behind the scenes, I don't think Neely gets up there in front of the media and just says that.
02:03I also think that while I don't believe them that they don't regret the way in which they've handled the Linas and Swayman situation,
02:10I do believe the organization over the player at this point because the organization is the one that's been the bad guy throughout this entire offseason.
02:20All shots have been towards them that they can't get a deal done.
02:23So at a certain point, if you're Cam Neely, you're sitting up there, you're frustrated.
02:26You're like, hey, I have 64 million reasons why I'd play.
02:29I don't know what his issue is.
02:30Yeah, I think the organization was stung by this very same thing when it came to Bobby Orr.
02:37And that's probably in the back of their minds where you have an agent who's not necessarily informing his client about everything that the Bruins are offering.
02:46I just think it's an organization that missed the market that's sitting here on the eve of the season and Neely doesn't have the goalie that he thought he would have locked up for the rest of the year, for the rest of his career.
02:57And so what you do is you try and curry public favor to pressure the player to get back on the ice.
03:04It's freaking working.
03:06Look at the Twitch right now.
03:07If Swayman doesn't take eight to eight and a half, F him, go get it somewhere else.
03:11I mean, it's working.
03:14Right.
03:15Exactly.
03:16He's playing the media because fans will always side against the player because they'll say, I play for $10 million.
03:23What's this bum?
03:24When it's like, well, I don't want Jeremy Jacobs to have another yacht.
03:27Why do I care about him keeping money?
03:29I'd rather the players have it.
03:31And Swayman is betting on himself.
03:33And you know what?
03:34If I were the organization, here's a chance to know how they reclaim the leverage.
03:38Greg, they play whoever the backup goalie is.
03:41They get him a net and they start out three, you know, with a couple of shutouts.
03:44And that's why it's got to get back to them.
03:46It seems like there is some confidence when it comes to Corpus Allo or whoever their goaltender is going to be that that goalie Bob can coach him up or whatever.
03:57And, you know, for whatever the reason, they're not willing to go.
04:00It doesn't seem like they're not willing to go to $9 million a year with Jeremy Swayman.
04:06And, you know, Jeremy Swayman seems locked in on an eight-year deal.
04:11I understand that $8 million now is not worth, you know, the $8 million in five years.
04:18It's not worth it in six, seven or eight.
04:20I understand that.
04:21But I also you don't know what a goaltender is going to be year to year, never mind what a goaltender is going to be in five, six or seven years.
04:29But Greg, here's the issue though.
04:30Like last year, they had the leverage and they stuck it to him.
04:35They used all their leverage against Swayman.
04:38So why is he wrong to use his leverage against them?
04:41I don't think he's wrong.
04:43I mean, it's a negotiation.
04:44I don't think either side is wrong.
04:48But you do have more like I am more angry at the organization.
04:52You seem to be more angry at the agent and by extension the player for not agreeing to this deal that's on the table.
04:58I think the Bruins are acting in this case in good faith.
05:02I think that the agent went out of his way to whisper to the spit and chiclets guys that Don Sweeney hadn't, you know, called them on the phone.
05:12I think that was BS.
05:14I think that and maybe it was the agent telling Jeremy Swayman that Don Sweeney wasn't calling and Jeremy Swayman whispering it to Ryan Whitney.
05:25However it happened.
05:26But who's been whispering to Raycroft when he was telling us all summer it's going to get done, it's going to get done.
05:31The organization was basically telling everybody it's going to get done.
05:35So they're also whispering that.
05:37Because I think they thought it would get done at $8 million.
05:40Right, on their terms.
05:41But clearly Swayman knows that he can get more than that elsewhere.
05:44And so he's telling them like no I can get more than that elsewhere.
05:47So you're going to have to pay me or trade me because somebody else is going to pay me that.
05:51And I think it's totally fair that he does that.
05:56Like he knows his market value.
05:58That's the issue here is they allowed him to get to this point.
06:01A contract should have been done the middle of last season.
06:04Instead they waited, allowed him to get to this point, allowed him to contact other teams and see what his actual value is.
06:11It's that classic Belichick thing.
06:13Belichick knew what player's value was.
06:15So he let them go out to market, find out for themselves, and then come back and get them at the value that he wanted.
06:20However, in this case, the Bruins have done that.
06:23And now Swayman knows he's worth a hell of a lot more than what they're offering.
06:26And then he wouldn't give anybody a title unless it was their son Steven.
06:29And then he paid him $3 million to be the defensive coordinator.
06:31802 text.
06:33The whole thing is that Jeremy Swayman is not a top-five goaltender, but he wants top-five goaltender money right now.
06:40Yeah, he's betting on his future rather than currently where he's at.
06:43That's what players do, especially when they know their market.
06:47That's what NFL receivers do.
06:49That's what every sports athlete does.
06:52Like Shohei Ohtani signed that $700 million contract.
06:55They knew full well he wasn't going to pitch right away, but that didn't matter.
06:58He knew he would eventually pitch, so that's why he was worth it.
07:01Okay, but Shohei Ohtani, at the time he signed that deal, was already an all-world player.
07:08Yeah, but he wasn't worth $700 million, Greg.
07:11I don't know if I want to say that Shohei was betting on himself.
07:14This is Jeff from Easton. Hello, Jeff.
07:18Hey, guys.
07:20I think that the tide has changed and that the fan base really doesn't back the billionaire owners anymore over these players who are playing hard.
07:30I'm sick of these billionaire owners, and I think they just need to stop trying to work our feelings.
07:36So what would you, if you were Don Sweeney, what would you offer Jeremy Swainman?
07:42Well, I just think Courtney hit it on the nose.
07:45It's working. Cam Neely's out there.
07:48If people come from other parts of the country and they come to Boston and think,
07:51is every fan here an accountant?
07:53Are they all concerned about the books?
07:55I mean, are these really fans?
07:57They should all be like the Green Bay Packers.
07:59But, you know, I'm not showing out the money to that cheap bastard.
08:02You know, we thought Wick was one thing.
08:04Now he's cheap.
08:07I mean, the salary cap is a real thing.
08:09I mean, Curtis denies it all the time.
08:11No, no, NHL salary cap is 100% real.
08:13I will never deny that.
08:14Hard cap.
08:15So, you know, you're going to eat it all up with this deal.
08:20We've been eating it from these Bruins owners for 30 years.
08:24Come on.
08:25Let's not side with them ever, ever, ever.
08:27Yeah.
08:28They're awful.
08:29I would always side with them.
08:30Do you include Cam Neely in that?
08:32Cam's representing those billionaires.
08:36They're awful.
08:37They're just terrible people.
08:39They've shown us that in the last few years.
08:41And that was my comment a few weeks back,
08:44appointing you guys limousine Republicans because you're falling into it.
08:47You know, I know you've got to massage these guys when they come on the air,
08:50but come on.
08:51None of us really care a damn what these billionaires.
08:53It has.
08:54Don Sweeney,
08:56who's been an everyday listener of my radio show for 30 plus years,
09:00refuses to come on.
09:02Cam Neely doesn't come on anymore.
09:04I, so I'm not, if any, if anything, I ruin birds.
09:07Right.
09:08Let me tell you something.
09:09You know me very well.
09:10There's going to be an uncomfortable elevator interaction,
09:13most likely today at Echelon me and Jay Swain.
09:18And I'm just going to do what I always do,
09:20which is stare at the, the, uh, floor numbers and, uh,
09:24to myself, like,
09:25I can't believe what Curtis said about you on the radio.
09:27Just ask him straight up.
09:29Huh?
09:30If you're in the elevator, put it on the top floor.
09:32I'll get a thing from the concierge.
09:34Like, please don't talk to other guests about their business interests.
09:37Or, I mean, it's going to be, it'll be a whole,
09:39that'll come in email triplicate.
09:41Like, please.
09:42How big are the bylaw books inside Echelon?
09:45I don't know.
09:46And also Greg, I, one thing on this, and I,
09:49I don't know.
09:50So I'm not saying that I know the answer,
09:52but has any player spoken about this on the Bruins about other than the
09:56perfunctory?
09:57You know, there was like a, uh, an,
09:59an interesting Brad Marsh and comment at some point,
10:02a couple of weeks ago.
10:03In fact, I believe we played it during,
10:04they said, uh, about how these kinds of things were general.
10:09He was talking about his deal and saying that he will never talk about
10:14his deal publicly.
10:15I believe.
10:16Are you giving me thumbs up?
10:17Cause you have that.
10:18Go ahead.
10:19Play it.
10:20I'm going to say this now and, and, uh, you know,
10:22kind of leave it at that, but I won't ever talk about contract stuff,
10:26uh, in the media.
10:28Um, you know, I saw a report come up the other day.
10:30Um, I think it was a hockey news and, you know,
10:33I don't know where he's getting his information, but I, you know,
10:36it wasn't from our side and, uh, we're not going to talk about it.
10:40Um, you know,
10:41whatever goes on we'll stay internal between swings and our group.
10:45And I don't believe that.
10:46I just, you know,
10:47I think there's enough respect between the two sides that, uh,
10:50we can deal with it.
10:51And I do.
10:54I think that's a great answer.
10:55And it is the big dichotomy, Greg,
10:57that between the workforce and the management,
11:00we don't know how much John Henry makes,
11:02but he's very happy to tell us all what everybody else makes.
11:06You know, we don't know what Jeremy Jacobs take home is.
11:08I'm sure he had a pretty good summer after the Celtics won a championship
11:12with all that home gate in the building he owns and he bought, but you know,
11:16we know exactly what Swayman makes.
11:18We don't know how much the organization makes.
11:20Yeah.
11:21But the organization also has to, and again, I,
11:24I don't know how I get backed into a corner on defending Jeremy Jacobs or
11:29anybody else.
11:30Cause that's not what I'm in my intention to do here.
11:32It's the seaport thing to do is, but it's, you know,
11:36during the pandemic, they, they almost lost that company.
11:39And that, you know, that's, that's the, when you own a business,
11:43you get the ups and you get the downs.
11:45So, I mean, you know, I, I,
11:50I don't know that.
11:52Do you think at this point that Cam Neely is just doing exactly what Jeremy
11:56or Charlie Jacobs wants, or do you think he's making his own decisions?
11:59I think he's mad that the player isn't doing what he wants him to do.
12:02So he's publicly complaining about it.
12:04This is Brandon from North Carolina. What's up, Brandon.
12:07Morning, everybody. First, I hate going against you, Curtis,
12:10cause you're very good at defending your points,
12:12but I just got to ask this leverage thing first.
12:15I want Swayman, love him. He did a cameo for my birthday,
12:18was hoping he was the Boston guy for the future. We don't know.
12:21But when we talk about leverage,
12:23we are talking about a goalie who has done well in the games he's played
12:26in,
12:27but he has not had to carry a team on his back by himself since he got
12:31into the league.
12:32So this whole getting paid at a max style deal,
12:36what type of leverage can Swayman lean on when he hasn't played a full
12:39season by himself?
12:42In that one point alone.
12:44That's a very fair point, Brandon.
12:45What I'm discussing is that his market value,
12:49he believes whether his agent's wrong, Greg, it could be,
12:52or as Shyam alludes to there's other teams that have told him they'll make,
12:55they'll pay him more than eight a year.
12:57He is at this stage getting a generational contract that will set him and his
13:02family up for years to come.
13:03So he's betting on himself.
13:05And if the organization doesn't agree with his value,
13:08that's perfectly within their right.
13:10And they can make a trade and Swayman can go get paid elsewhere.
13:13But the notion that he owes the organization anything to me is just
13:19laughable.
13:20Like that he's using his rights to hold out,
13:22to get the max value that he can get at this stage of his career.
13:25They also don't owe him being the highest paid goaltender in the NHL at the
13:29expense of other players that they might want to sign in the future here.
13:34Of course.
13:35And this is a legitimate.
13:36What's that?
13:37You are so correct.
13:38And I want to sit Curtis.
13:40One, Greg,
13:41this is the first time in probably 20 years of listening to WEI that I think
13:46I agree with Greg and Curtis at the same time.
13:49So from all the way down to North Carolina,
13:51thank you for starting my day off.
13:53Yeah.
13:54We are.
13:57You have organizations that end up paying their goaltender 10 plus million
14:01dollars a year.
14:02I eat the Montreal Canadians.
14:04And they're screwed.
14:05Right.
14:07It's a totally,
14:08I'm not saying that they're wrong or right in terms of whether he's going to
14:11be great in six years.
14:12I'm just saying that if,
14:13honestly,
14:14if I were Cam Neely,
14:15I would see what we have with Goli Bob,
14:18making the best out of what your backup would be.
14:20And then you can leverage back against Jeremy Swayman because once the season
14:24starts,
14:25if he's still here and he's not playing and the team's playing,
14:27well,
14:28all of the anger or the leverage he has dissipates.
14:31And then like you have till December 5th,
14:33basically.
14:34Right.
14:35So you can kind of just wait this out.
14:36If you feel like if he still stands firm at,
14:38you know,
14:39a month into the season,
14:40even though your team's playing well,
14:42you still have the right to deal him.
14:44And then you can just move on from it and go forward.
14:46Or if you feel comfortable with giving him the money at that point,
14:49then you do.
14:50But like,
14:51I just,
14:52it's,
14:53it feels wrong to blame either side because I think both sides are right.
14:56Like the Bruins have a number.
14:57They're firm on it.
14:58Jeremy Swayman knows his market value.
15:00He's firm on it.
15:01This is just,
15:02it's just negotiation.
15:03It's just why the agent is maybe the one in the wrong.
15:06Both sides can be right.
15:07But I think the agent may be more in play with this.
15:10Then we,
15:11we get it.
15:12I don't think it's fair that cam comes out in the public and says,
15:15they say,
15:16they're going to say it.
15:17Who went public with it first.
15:19Right.
15:20Ryan Whitney.
15:21Technically.
15:22I think it was Gail.
15:23I mean,
15:24he got it from either Jeremy Swayman or from his agent.
15:27Probably.
15:28Yeah.
15:29Actually,
15:30it was Keith who had it first.
15:31Yes.
15:32And Keith said that the Bruins were willing to go up to $8 million.
15:35So Keith even said when Keith had the first report,
15:38he said what Sweeney said,
15:40or nearly said yesterday that they would go to $8 million.
15:42Right.
15:43A year.
15:44But Ryan Whitney had Don Sweeney,
15:46not making any phone calls,
15:47not,
15:48not engaging with them and was trying to put egg on the face of the Bruins
15:53organization.
15:54And that's the Bruins.
15:55Cherry picking certain reports and then refuting them like that's that,
15:58that you don't need to do that.
15:59Yeah.
16:00Why would they,
16:01why would they refute Rich's report when it was accurate?
16:03But that's,
16:04that's my point.
16:05Like it's,
16:06it's,
16:07so you don't need,
16:08like there's other,
16:09there are multiple reports out there.
16:10Right.
16:11So,
16:12so not everybody is accurate.
16:13Not everybody is correct all the time.
16:14Why is you,
16:15as the organization,
16:16do you feel the need to come out in the public and say,
16:19well,
16:20I'd have $64 million.
16:22I think,
16:23I think Keefe and,
16:24and Ryan Whitney can both be correct.
16:26I think that the Bruins could have initially offered $6.2 million.
16:29Swayman was laughing in their face saying,
16:31I want 10.
16:32Clearly my scoop was wrong,
16:33but those two can both co-exist like that.
16:35That's why.
16:36And they didn't,
16:37Don Sweeney didn't really go against Keefe's report at all.
16:40He just went against Ryan Whitney's.
16:42Yeah.
16:43It just feels very sanitary.
16:44Yeah.
16:46I'd have 64 million reasons to get on the ice.
16:48Like,
16:49I just,
16:50I don't think it's necessary,
16:51especially if you're actually acting in good faith with Jeremy Swayman,
16:54defend the organization.
16:55When,
16:56when,
16:57why do you need to,
16:58you've different,
16:59you defend the organization by giving him the contract you think he's
17:01worth.
17:02So if you were negotiating here with Mike Thomas.
17:04Yeah.
17:05And Mike Thomas was.
17:06Lying publicly.
17:07Yeah.
17:08And,
17:09and,
17:10and,
17:11and,
17:12and,
17:13and,
17:14and,
17:15and,
17:16and that I would be demanding that of him because I think,
17:17because he's lying publicly about you and what your intention was and
17:19whether or not you were communicating.
17:20You wouldn't defend yourself.
17:21I mean,
17:22sure.
17:23But like,
17:24I guess,
17:25I guess I wouldn't understand.
17:26I Greg,
17:27I've never had to sign a big contract.
17:28You know,
17:29I'm not a big wiggler.
17:30I don't have to.
17:31You are the man on the come up.
17:32Sure.
17:33Maybe,
17:34maybe one day I'll have to sign a big contract,
17:35but not,
17:36not maybe a lucrative multi-year deal like Courtney,
17:37but.
17:38Very lucrative,
17:39lucrative.
17:40Yeah.
17:41But like I just,
17:42I don't,
17:43side necessarily needed to jump it like I don't think Sweeney needed to jump in it in
17:47the press conference but like yeah no it's I just I don't know I just I think it's I
17:51think it's acting in bad faith on both sides.