If net zero emission targets are to be met, it is vital for a circular economy model to be embraced, according to experts.
Vegware, an Edinburgh-headquartered company committed to playing its role in circularity and promoting the bioeconomy.
Vegware is a compostable food service packaging firm that also provides the Close the Loop composting collection offering.
In the latest episode of The Scotsman’s Sustainable Scotland podcast, in association with Vegware, the concept of how circularity and the bioeconomy work in practice is explored. Taking part in the podcast are: Dr Jen Vanderhoven, chief operating officer of the Bio-based and Biodegradable Industries Association (BBIA); Phoebe Russell, waste management consultant for Vegware; and Andy Stahly, environment manager at St Andrews University.
Vegware, an Edinburgh-headquartered company committed to playing its role in circularity and promoting the bioeconomy.
Vegware is a compostable food service packaging firm that also provides the Close the Loop composting collection offering.
In the latest episode of The Scotsman’s Sustainable Scotland podcast, in association with Vegware, the concept of how circularity and the bioeconomy work in practice is explored. Taking part in the podcast are: Dr Jen Vanderhoven, chief operating officer of the Bio-based and Biodegradable Industries Association (BBIA); Phoebe Russell, waste management consultant for Vegware; and Andy Stahly, environment manager at St Andrews University.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hello, I'm Rosemary Gallagher, and welcome to our Sustainable Scotland podcast, brought
00:08to you by the Scotsman. Sustainable Scotland is how Scotland is doing in its efforts to
00:13be cleaner and greener for the next generation. In this episode, in partnership with VegWare,
00:19the plant-based compostable food service packaging firm, we're focusing on the bioeconomy and
00:24circularity. We'll examine where VegWare fits into the wider ecosystem, especially
00:30with its close-the-loop composting collection service. Our guests are Dr Jen Vanderhoeven,
00:36Chief Operating Officer of the BBIA, that's the Bio-Based and Biodegradable Industries
00:42Association, Phoebe Russell, Waste Management Consultant for VegWare, and Andy Stalley,
00:49Environment Manager for St Andrews University. Could I ask you all to introduce yourselves
00:53please, and tell me a bit more about your roles?
00:56Yeah, hi, so I'm Phoebe Russell, I work for VegWare within the environmental team as a
01:03waste management consultant. So I've been working more broadly as an environmental consultant
01:09for the last four years, and then I joined VegWare about two years ago, and specialised
01:14within waste management.
01:17Thank you Phoebe, and Andy, would you like to introduce yourself?
01:21Yeah, hi, my name is Andy Stalley, and I'm the environment manager at the University
01:25of St Andrews. I work within the Estates Department and within the environment team. My role involves
01:33really the overall waste management for the university. We have some ambitious targets
01:37to be net zero by 2035, so my role is really looking at creating a circular economy, behaviour
01:45change, and the overall waste management and waste reduction. I've worked at the university
01:50for around two years now, but previous to that I worked in the waste industry for around
01:5510 years, having spent a lot of time working within the food waste sector, anaerobic digestion
02:01and composting, both within the local authority and in the private sector. I've also previously
02:06worked in engineering and manufacturing as well, so I'm very familiar with the VegWare
02:11products, having worked within the sector for a long time.
02:14Thanks Andy, lots of experience there. And Dr Jen Vanderhoeven, could I ask you to introduce
02:19yourself please? Yeah, hi, my name is Jen Vanderhoeven, I'm
02:24the Chief Operating Officer of the BBIA. The BBIA is the Biobased and Biodegradable Industries
02:30Association, and we champion the bioeconomy and try and accelerate the commercialisation
02:37of chemicals, materials which are made from biomass, to replace the use of fossil resources.
02:45I have a background in biochemistry, and I've worked in sustainable biotechnology
02:51for the last 20 years, both in industry and academia.
02:55Thanks Jen. You introduced the BBIA there, perhaps you could tell me a bit more about
02:59your work and your role there, and what the BBIA does for people who might not know much
03:03about the organisation? Yeah, that's great. So the BBIA, we're a
03:07trade association for those who are working within the bioeconomy. We have around 60 organisation
03:13members, which is thousands and thousands of people across the UK who are working to
03:18produce biobased materials and chemicals to replace those kind of fossil-based materials,
03:24ultimately to try and curb climate change and reach net zero.
03:29Vegware is one of the organisations who are a member of the BBIA, and their work into
03:35producing compostable materials is really, really vital to the sector, and to really
03:40helping the UK and the globe reach net zero. Sounds interesting. And we're talking about
03:46bioeconomy today. Could you explain what the bioeconomy is, perhaps define what it is?
03:52Yeah, so the bioeconomy is nature's way of recycling useful materials, so that we can,
03:59for example, take, we use a tree as an example. We take nature's materials, which is a tree,
04:04and trees are made of carbon. We might use that tree to produce compostable material.
04:12That material may then be used as, let's say, a coffee cup, or used as a takeaway tray. And at
04:18the end of its life, we want to recover that material alongside any food or drink waste that's
04:23left in it. So it will be composted, and that will return it back to soil. And then that soil is used
04:29by a tree to grow again. So it's a very circular cycle where we're taking nature's resources,
04:35using them for a purpose, but then returning those resources back to nature. And the key part of that
04:41is that trees and fungi and plants are all made of carbon and biomass. And when they're growing,
04:48they take in carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and use that to grow. So what's important about
04:54this natural cycle is that we're taking carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere, fixing it as carbon,
05:01using that for a use that's useful to us, but then we're returning that back to nature.
05:06And what this is stopping is it's stopping us digging up fossil resources from underground
05:11and releasing more CO2 into the atmosphere, which is ultimately what's caused climate
05:17change over the past few decades. Whereas if we use nature's natural cycle, bioeconomy,
05:23we're kind of recycling that carbon through a cycle and we're not adding any more CO2 to the
05:28atmosphere. Thanks, Jen. That's a very thorough, understandable explanation. That's really helpful.
05:34And in terms of trying to achieve a truly circular bioeconomy, what are the challenges
05:38there? And where do you think Scotland sits on that journey? So in terms of the bioeconomy,
05:43as I said, it's a kind of a circular process. And the main hurdles at the moment are when it
05:48comes to collecting those materials that we've used as humans that are useful, actually then
05:53converting that back into natural materials again is quite difficult. So the example here
06:00for composting is, for example, with bed wear products, at the moment, it's really hard to
06:06collect compostable materials and deliver them to an industrial composting site and have those
06:13materials reduced back down to compost and then used in nature again due to infrastructure and due
06:19to regulations. So that's kind of one bottleneck is around the collection and the recycling of
06:25those materials. And then another, I would say, key bottleneck is around the use of biomass.
06:32So at the moment, it's primarily used for bioenergy. So, for example, tree pellets are
06:38used and burnt to create electricity. And really, we should be prioritising the use of our biomass
06:45for the production of materials and chemicals, which have a much more useful, higher value
06:51use in society rather than energy, because energy can actually be created from
06:58wind, from solar, which doesn't actually need to use biomass at all.
07:03Okay. Now, these challenges, again, just for Scotland or for kind of across the globe,
07:08are these global challenges that people face?
07:10They are. They're definitely global challenges. I think a large part of it is down to
07:17consumer understanding of actually carbon and chemicals or everything that we use in our daily
07:23lives, from shampoo through to our clothes, the energy we use in our homes, literally in medicines,
07:32everything, food, it all has chemicals and it all has carbon in it. People think chemicals are bad,
07:38but they're not. Chemicals have allowed us to have this modern, resilient society.
07:43And as I said, for the chemicals and the materials that are carbon-based, we really need to be using
07:49nature's natural carbon to make those. And that's where biomass comes in. So that's how it was done
07:55for millions and millions of years before humans came along. So we need people to understand that
08:03we need carbon for our everyday lives and we should be utilising that for products and materials
08:09rather than burning it.
08:11Okay. So education for consumers is required there as well. Okay. And in terms of compostables in
08:18particular, what role do compostables play in this circular bioeconomy and what role could
08:22they play in the future?
08:24Compostables are really vital for the future because, as I said, they allow us to take materials
08:29that we've been using and convert them back into a nice natural resource, in this case, compost,
08:34which can then be used again in that bioeconomy cycle to help grow more biomass. And it's really
08:40important because our soils are actually depleting at the moment because we're not replenishing them
08:45with the materials that we've taken from them. And composting allows us to do that. Without
08:52composting, those materials would end up going to landfill or being burnt, which is bad for the
08:58environment.
09:00Thanks, Jen. It's great to hear more about the bioeconomy and what VBIE does. And then
09:05returning to feedback at VegWare, could you explain a bit more about what VegWare does
09:09in your services and products and who your customer base is?
09:13Yeah, certainly. So VegWare produce compostable food service packaging. So that could be anything
09:20from your takeaway coffee cup to chip cartons, burger boxes, a whole range of products. And
09:29they're all plant-based and made from renewable materials. And the reason for that is because
09:36they're all designed to be industrially composted. So where traditional food service packaging was
09:44often made from oil-based materials such as plastic, we've focused on the compostables
09:51because it means that we're overcoming a challenge in the industry that is once food packaging is
09:56contaminated, it's really hard to recycle it. So by focusing on compostable packaging, everything
10:03can be disposed of together. So all of the materials break down in the same way, and
10:10it can be disposed of with that food waste that might be left inside the food packaging as well.
10:16And VegWare is more than just a packaging company. So we have waste consultancy services
10:23within the business. And we also have a great creative and communications team that are on hand
10:29to help our customers with custom printed items, signage, case studies, and a whole host of other
10:37materials. And then we'll tailor that sort of package of resources to each customer.
10:43So because we work with such a wide range of customers from small cafes to stadiums,
10:50universities, and catered offices, we try and tailor that to how they need it to be.
10:57Thanks Phoebe, that sounds great. And this has all been led from Scotland to your headquarter in
11:01Edinburgh. So it's a Scottish success story. Yeah, exactly that. Not many people realise that
11:06the headquarters are in Edinburgh. But that's where the business started. And that's where
11:12the offices remain today. Yeah. Great. And then, you've talked a little bit about VegWare and a
11:17bit about Close the Loop. Can you explain more about Close the Loop composting collection service
11:22and a bit more, Jen's already covered this to some extent, a bit more about the benefits of
11:27composting. It'd be good to hear more about that. Yeah, of course. So as Jen touched on,
11:33the infrastructure for getting compostables to in-vessel composting is one of the main challenges
11:39currently. So what we've tried to do at VegWare with our Close the Loop consultancy services
11:47is that we try and increase access to compostable collections for businesses.
11:56And we think this is something that's really unique. We don't know of another compostable
12:01packaging company that's doing the same and that has a team of expert waste consultants.
12:07So it's that something extra that we're trying to provide to our customers.
12:11So what we do is we have the consultancy services that we provide to our customers
12:18and we'll advise them on the best way to dispose of their VegWare. And then we'll provide them,
12:24sorry, we'll provide them with a range of materials to boost levels of engagement with that
12:30waste system. So under the Close the Loop umbrella, we have our in-house waste collection service.
12:40That's what I manage in Central Belt, Scotland. So that's where we collect food waste and VegWare
12:47packaging together and take it to an in-vessel composting facility within Scotland, keeping
12:54all resources as local as we possibly can. And then for the rest of the UK, we'll partner with
13:03other local waste collectors and local composting facilities to be able to offer the same type of
13:10service for different parts of the UK as well. And this is a really important thing because
13:18there are so many businesses that rely on these disposable food service packaging.
13:24But if we can make that as circular as possible for them, then it's really helping us to strive
13:30towards those net zero goals and each business's individual net zero goals. And also there are so
13:37many benefits to the end result, which is the compost as well. So compost as a material, it
13:44sequesters carbon, so it locks that carbon into itself. It improves soil structure, which also
13:52will help to reduce flood risk. And we find that it does also create jobs locally. And that can be
14:01in our case, that could be through the waste collection service itself. So the drivers or the
14:07people working at the composting facility or the farmers that use the resultant compost
14:14after it's been produced. So we're helping to boost that economy locally as well.
14:19That's good to hear. So as well as being good for the environment, it's good for the economy,
14:22creating local jobs in local areas. Can you tell more about what types of businesses use the
14:26close the loop service and more a bit about the benefits, how they benefit?
14:31It'd be good to hear more about that as well. Yes, of course. So we focus on closed sites.
14:38So a prime example of this is St Andrew's Uni. So Andy or Nicole will tell you more about that.
14:47And the reason that we focus on these closed sites is because it makes it easier for us to capture
14:52the majority of the vegware that's being used. So, yeah, it works really well in things like
15:00universities, catered offices, event spaces, stadiums, and that type of
15:10business. But we can also work with small independents. So cafes, for example,
15:17where they primarily use our packaging for takeaway. So one of the challenges there is that
15:22we need to get that packaging back to the site to then collect it. But we'll work closely with them
15:28and with our comms team to produce materials that promote a bring back scheme. So we try and get
15:36regular customers of that business to bring their packaging back and then we can collect it that way.
15:41And we were trying to engage more and more with those smaller independents.
15:45And for Central Belt Scotland, we can offer a bagged collection now. So we can collect smaller
15:52quantities of that material, which I think opens this service up to a lot of those smaller
15:57businesses, which is exciting. Thanks, it sounds like a great service,
16:02especially for the small businesses, as you say. So how can people, businesses of all sizes,
16:08access Close the Loop? Is it a straightforward process?
16:13Yeah, it's really easy. So on our website, there is a form that we call Keen to Compost.
16:21So anyone can find that whether you're a business, whether you're an individual who's just after some
16:25more information about composting, you can use that form and it will go directly into our
16:31environmental inbox at VegWare. And then the local or regional waste management consultant
16:38will pick that up and reach out to the customer or individual and see what the best composting
16:44solution would be for them. And it's not just regular collections that we can advise on,
16:52but we also work on on-site solutions. So there's different on-site composters that people can use
17:00and we can help to advise on dedicated collections or there's post-back services as well.
17:08So lots of different things that we can explore with that person.
17:13That's great. Sounds like a very comprehensive service, obviously covering a wide area. So
17:17are there any challenges that you face and how do you overcome them?
17:22Yeah, there's definitely challenges. As with any waste management system, it's quite difficult
17:30to get people interested in using the right bins and continuing to do that. And
17:39as Jen mentioned earlier, the education piece, we find that that is such a big part of getting
17:46people involved. And once they understand what happens to their waste, once it leaves site,
17:51it really helps to increase enthusiasm and increase the correct waste segregation.
18:00So education is a huge piece of our work and we are part of a UKRI funded project
18:09that was with the University of Sheffield and Hubbub and it was called the Compostable Coalition.
18:15And the aim of that was to advance the collection and treatment of compostable packaging.
18:22But one of the bits that we helped them with was looking at what interventions are effective
18:28at educating consumers and getting them to use the right bins within a dining hall.
18:35So there were different things that the study looked at, different interventions,
18:39and these included using stickers on all of the compostable products.
18:46And they chose to use a really bright pink colour that stood out, and then they matched that with
18:50the waste stream colour and with other materials around the site. So things like a video and
18:57posters. And the results were really successful. So they found that on average, the amount of
19:05compostable packaging collected increased from 32% before the intervention, and that went up to 61%
19:14after one month and 77% after two months. So it was great to see that the different
19:22interventions that you can use on the site, so things like bin signage, posters, can really help
19:27to boost the amount of compostables that are segregated. And that's something that we do within
19:34our consultancy service, is to produce those types of signage and posters. So it's really reassuring
19:40to see that that is a successful way of getting people engaged. And then another key problem is
19:48contamination. And this is something that we're asked about a lot. It's when we're bringing new
19:54sites on to close the loop, it's the thing that they're most concerned about. But we work with
20:00each site through a five steps to composting framework. And the first step of this is to look
20:08for any sources of contamination and switch all disposables over to VegWare compostable
20:16food service packaging. So what we're trying to do, we're trying to eliminate those sources
20:21of contamination before we even start to discuss the collections. And then once they're up and
20:27running, we'll go back to site and provide ongoing support through site visits and see if any of
20:34those sources of contamination have crept back into what they're using on site. So it is a continuous
20:39effort and the site really do need to be engaged and on board, but it can be successful and we've
20:46got many sites on the service that are successful. You're listening to the Scotsman Sustainable
20:50Scotland podcast. This episode is brought to you in partnership with VegWare. If you'd like to
20:54discuss partnering with the Scotsman for an episode of Sustainable Scotland, please email
20:58podcasts at scotsman.com. Now back to this episode on the bioeconomy and VegWare's close the loop
21:04service. Andy, you're a customer of VegWare. Can you explain how you decided to use VegWare and the
21:08closed loop service at the University of St Andrews? Yeah, so as we know in Scotland, we have a ban on
21:13single-use plastic items such as disposable cups and food containers. So VegWare and
21:20compostable packaging provides a solution to this. So it's driven by legislation, but it's also
21:27driven by the university's ambition to fit in with the sustainability strategy that we have in place.
21:33So our wider sustainability goals, you know, we're looking to reduce waste and reduce carbon
21:38wherever possible, so this service allows us to do that. The actual purchasing of the
21:45products is done by the university's residential and business services team. So they manage
21:52the operations of the student accommodation and the cafes throughout the university campus.
21:57So the products that we have in place, food containers, they all come with university
22:02branding, so we can tailor that to how we want, which is obviously really good for
22:08hosting events for prospective students and being a world-leading organisation. Globally, it's very
22:15important for the university to be able to have that option to have customised branding on the
22:20products. So yeah, the waste side, the actual management of that waste that's being produced
22:27is ultimately my responsibility at the university. So working with Phoebe and the guys at VegWare has
22:34helped us to set that system up, the Close the Loop, and has allowed us to manage the waste
22:40accordingly and have that VegWare products returned to the site to allow it to be composted.
22:47Thanks Andy, and obviously the university is a very big organisation, it's a managed university,
22:52so where does the Close the Loop and VegWare service fit into your wider sustainability goals?
22:58Yeah, so the wider sustainability goals are the university are looking to be net zero by 2035,
23:05which is an ambitious target, but there's many businesses out there that have
23:10net zero targets. So we're looking to obviously reduce waste and prevent waste being introduced
23:18in the first place using the waste hierarchy. That applies to all waste products, that's not
23:23just compostable products, that's food waste, plastic waste, all types of waste. However,
23:31we obviously recognise that that is a challenge to do that, so we need alternatives to plastic
23:35and disposable materials. So that's where VegWare does come into play and it does offer a good
23:41alternative. So again, part of the wider sustainability goals is to try and create this
23:48circular economy, and that's a phrase that is thrown out into the media and in various other
23:54outlets a lot. So to really understand what that means is it's moving away from a traditional
24:00one-year model of essentially cradle to grave. So we normally buy a product, we use it, and then
24:06we dispose of it. So what creating a circular economy does is change that model to keeping
24:13the products in use for as long as possible. So looking at VegWare products, like others have
24:19said, we can use that material and then it can be composted and then turned back into a compost and
24:24then applied back to the land again. So it really does complete that cycle. So really that's what
24:29the university's wider goals are for the waste. We do obviously have lots of other projects
24:36ongoing, as you can imagine, and remanufacturing is another thing that sort of spills into this
24:41circular economy creation. So again, using products maybe such as desks or furniture
24:47and then remanufacturing it and putting it back into use as opposed to disposal. So looking at the
24:54food waste and compostable packaging material, that's something that we've put a lot of effort
25:00into trying to do, to try and get that back into the composting process. And yeah, like we're going
25:09to go on to, there's a lot of challenges that come along with that. Thanks Andy. It's good to hear
25:15about how circular economy works in practice and what's Andrews University doing in that area.
25:20And also you're doing a lot. I mean, what's been the response of students? Are they engaged? Are
25:23they pleased to see they're using VegWare products? Do you think about composting and
25:27thinking about circular economy sustainability? Is that something that inspires them, do you think?
25:31Yeah, definitely. I mean, we have a lot of students that are extremely passionate about
25:35sustainability and environmental issues, and there's a number of ways in which the students
25:40can get involved with that. So one of those ways is working with the environment team,
25:46working with myself. We offer internships and graduate positions to students so they can get
25:52involved in the various different projects that are taking place. We've had some previous
25:58engagement events where VegWare have actually, and Phoebe and the team have come on site
26:03to the university, and we've held engagement events at some of the main cafes where we have
26:08the close-up cycle in place. And yes, we always find that students are engaged and staff are
26:15engaged and they are interested in it. And they feel proud that they're
26:22studying at an organisation that is trying to do these initiatives. So we do get positive feedback,
26:30but yeah, it does come with a lot of challenges. But engagement and education, as has been
26:35mentioned earlier, is definitely the key thing to try and get people interested. Waste is a topic
26:42that's, it's not the most glamorous topic, it's not the most glamorous industry. When we think
26:47about sustainability and environmental issues, people tend to think of energy and renewable
26:54energy and waste is one of these topics that people, it's difficult to get people excited
27:01about waste. So that's our job is to try and get people a bit more engaged within that.
27:06You mentioned the challenge of getting people talking about waste and engaging in waste. Is
27:10that one of the major challenges? What other challenges do you face?
27:14And in general, when it comes to sustainability? Yeah, getting people interested is definitely
27:18the main issue. The other issue that we have is, like Phoebe mentioned, is about contamination
27:23and getting people to put the correct item in the right part of the bin. Now that sounds like
27:29that should be straightforward. And this is not exclusive to vegware or compostable products.
27:35Trying to get people to recycle from the get-go is difficult. And I've worked in the waste industry
27:41for a long time to realise that it's really, really challenging to try and get people to
27:48put the right thing in the right bin, essentially. So again, how we try and combat that is by holding
27:54engagement events, by doing a lot of work on social media. Social media has been really helpful for us
28:03in more recent months. Students and young people in particular tend to get most of their information
28:09from social media and online, so you've got a captive audience there. So that's something
28:15where we've tried to put a lot of our efforts in, certainly for the last six months, to try and get
28:21people to engage and help improve the contamination levels within the composting service. So that's
28:29where we've really been focusing on recently. And like I say, Phoebe and the team have been out to
28:33the university and held engagement events. We've got another one coming up in September for Freshers
28:39Week. So again, when you have a new batch of students coming in every year, and the students
28:44are coming from all over the world, so we tend to think about how the waste industry works within
28:49Scotland, but we have people obviously studying here from all over the world. So it's about
28:54educating them as well, and making sure that we are making instruction as simple as possible,
29:00and trying to keep it from being overly complicated. And that's one thing that we
29:04do find quite challenging. Thanks Andy. And I think Joanne, would you like to add anything to that?
29:11Oh yeah, I just wanted to come in on Andy's point around waste and the kind of linear model we have
29:16at the moment, where we take things, we use them, and then we convert them into waste and dispose
29:22of them. And that's traditionally been through kind of landfill and incineration. And one thing
29:26that I'm really keen that we all come together and talk about is how actually waste shouldn't be
29:31waste. Waste is actually a useful resource, and it's actually a feedstock. So we need to stop
29:37thinking about waste as something which just goes away somewhere, and we never see it again. And
29:42Andy's done a really good job of explaining how actually we can take that waste, we can use it as
29:47a feedstock, put it back into that circular model, and therefore we're actually not producing that
29:53waste anymore. So one thing I've done is when the bin man comes round on a weekly thing, I've got a
29:59nine-year-old daughter, and I actually say, oh the feedstock man's coming. So we've just completely
30:05changed the way we think about it, because actually that waste is really, really valuable.
30:09So we just kind of as a society need to change the way we think about the waste that we're
30:14producing, and think actually that's still a valuable resource, how can we use it again.
30:19That's a really interesting point. I believe my skin industry, for example,
30:21does a lot in that area, and have done for years in terms of feeding cattle with
30:25what could be their waste. I like how you explained to your nine-year-old,
30:29I might try this on a ten-year-old as well.
30:33Changing behaviour and attitude is the big thing here, and it's using the tools and almost
30:39using technology as well to try and help with that. It's very difficult, but like I said,
30:46using the tools that we have available, like social media, and using smart technology and
30:53apps and things to try and help identify what types of waste go in each bin,
30:59hopefully that will help going forward.
31:02We've all mentioned today's education, and Phoebe, I think you want to come in there as well perhaps?
31:07Yeah, I was just going to say, having those internships like you were talking about,
31:10Andy, where someone from the university comes into your team, that probably will
31:14provide quite good insight as well into what is going to help to make those students change
31:19behaviours, and what things they're going to relate to, and is there something different
31:23that we can be doing together on site to try and make that change?
31:27Yeah, definitely. It helps certainly having young people on the team to come and give their
31:33point of view from it. So, it's all very well me sitting in the office and trying to come up
31:38with a strategy to make this happen, but you have to involve the students, and yeah, like you say,
31:43the internships provide a good way for us to do that, and it's obviously beneficial for them
31:51following their studies at the university. So, yeah, it's definitely a good way to do it.
31:56Yeah, sounds good. You've all mentioned education there and the importance of it.
32:00James, would you like to add anything on what more CWDANA, is there any sort of policies you'd
32:04like to see to help educate people on waste and get them more engaged? Any thoughts on that area?
32:13I think there needs to be a lot of responsibility placed on producers, you know, food packaging
32:19and companies that are producing the packaging or producing the waste in the first place.
32:23I think putting a bit more responsibility on businesses to make more of an effort,
32:29and rather than sort of being the customer's problem, if you like, like I say, waste,
32:35people tend to see it as a problematic area to deal with, and it's difficult to get people to
32:40engage on that. So, yeah, like I've mentioned, I think the people on my team are fed up with me
32:46talking about social media and things like that, because I just feel like that's the way that we
32:51try and educate people. We're visiting a number of our waste contractor sites as well,
32:58and, you know, we're making videos and making reels to show people where the waste is going
33:02and what's actually happening to it. Because again, I think it was mentioned earlier on,
33:06I think the general opinion is that the waste just disappears by itself and it's managed by
33:12another company and it's not their problem anymore. So I think seeing what happens in
33:17the real world and visiting sites, we're keen to bring students on to our Aiden campus site in
33:24Fife, where we have solar energy and biomass plant and things like that. And when people are
33:30faced with the actual real life situation in front of them, that's when you get that realisation
33:35about how things work and what they can do to try and help. When you put people in front of
33:40a waste facility and they're faced with two or three hundred tonnes of waste in front of them,
33:45that tends to provide a bit of a shock factor and a bit of realisation that, you know,
33:51this is a big challenge. So I think, you know, physical visits to sites is definitely worthwhile
33:58and we've tried to do that where we can. Sounds good. Thanks, Andy.
34:02Yeah, I'd agree with that. And we at Vegware, we produced a VR headset where it takes the user
34:08through the cycle of they're using the packaging, they dispose of it where it goes and what the
34:13composting process is and things like that are really helpful to show the user what actually
34:19happens once they dispose of something. And from Vegware's perspective, I think education wise,
34:26there's a lot of misconceptions around what can be disposed of where and what the differences
34:33are between, say, your regular food waste collection. So within the UK, a lot of food
34:40waste collections go to anaerobic digestion, which at the moment isn't suitable for compostable
34:46packaging items to be disposed of in that way. And that's why we focus on
34:55in-vessel composting, which is a different form of composting, which is better suited to our
35:01products currently. And I don't think that many, that a lot of people understand the differences
35:09between those two types of composting. So I think that's a big thing for Vegware to
35:15focus on education wise. And then from a policy point of view, the big ask would be for
35:22these anaerobic digestion sites where the majority of food waste is being taken to be adapted to be
35:28able to accept compostable material, because then that opens up the whole of the UK to be
35:35being able to access a way of disposing of their compostable packaging effectively.
35:44Thanks, Phoebe. And Jen, would you like to come in there?
35:48Yeah, I was just going to say around my educational piece, it's definitely we need to
35:52put some responsibility and accountability on to producers, but also we need to take
35:57accountability as individuals and ourselves. And I think that really does start with education
36:03in schools. So I'm a child of the 80s and I grew up with TV dinners and this very linear
36:11take, make and throw away society, whereas actually we need to be going into speaking
36:16to school children now and changing their mindsets because it's really hard to change
36:20the behaviours of people who've been doing things for 20, 30 years. A really great example is in
36:27Japan. So most major cities in Japan don't have waste bins on the streets. So if you are creating
36:35waste, you actually have to take that waste home with you to dispose of. And children who take
36:40lunches to school, there's no bins at school for that. Any waste that you produce, you have to take
36:45home and deal with. And I think that really highlights to an individual just how much
36:50waste you do produce. And actually it is your responsibility. And that's shown that it can
36:55significantly reduce the amounts of waste that people are creating because if they've got to
37:01deal with it, they don't want to. So, you know, really highlighting how much waste we all produce
37:07as individuals that you've mentioned that we just think kind of goes away and is dealt with
37:12somewhere else. We also need to take personal responsibility for that. Yeah. And I think the
37:17one thing that the government could really do that would be really useful is to prioritise the use of
37:22biomass for chemicals and materials over using it for bioenergy production. I'll call the government
37:31there. So thanks, everyone. It's been really insightful hearing more about bioeconomy,
37:37circular economy and what VEGWARE has done with its closed loop service and the great work you're
37:41doing at BBIE and Stanford University as well. Is there anything you would like to add at this
37:46point? We've covered a lot, obviously, but there might be some more points you'd like to
37:49throw in there as we come to the end of the podcast.
37:55For me, it's just if anyone would like to be involved or find out anything else about
38:00the bioeconomy, please do get in touch with any of us who've been on the call today. I'm sure we'd
38:05all be more than happy to talk to anyone about compostables and the value that they have for
38:10society. Thank you for listening to this episode of Sustainable Scotland, produced by The Scotsman.
38:15This episode was delivered in partnership with VEGWARE. Please listen out for and enjoy more
38:18episodes of Sustainable Scotland on all your main podcast platforms. This episode was presented by
38:23me, Rosemary Gallagher, and produced by Andrew Mulligan.