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NewsTranscript
00:00promoting XRP, a cryptocurrency developed by the US-based company Ripple Labs.
00:07While the YouTube channel has now been taken down, this is not the first time that a court
00:11has faced cyber breach.
00:13Internet usage has become an integral part of our daily lives and so has cybercrime.
00:18Hello and welcome.
00:19You are watching The Big Story on NDTV Prophet and I am Nupur Talwar Suri.
00:23On today's episode of The Big Story, we will be talking about the steady increase in cybercrime
00:28and are we ready to deal with it?
00:32First up, we are going to be looking at the three big questions that we are asking this
00:37evening.
00:38Question number one, is India equipped to deal with cyber attacks on institutions?
00:46Question number two, if the Supreme Court's handle can be hacked, how safe are we from
00:50cyber attacks?
00:52And question number three, what are the priority measures needed to ring-fence our institutions?
00:57Well, before we get to our guests, let's get a comprehensive breakdown of the entire incident
01:05and Varun Gakhar of NDTV Prophet has a detailed report.
01:09That's right.
01:10So, in a tech lab at the Supreme Court of India, the top court's YouTube channel appears
01:16to have been hacked and was seen showing videos of XRP, a cryptocurrency developed by American-based
01:22company Ripple Labs.
01:23Now, the YouTube channel, which was used to broadcast hearings of public importance and
01:27constitutional bench hearings, seems to have been compromised and videos uploaded by the
01:32top court on the channel earlier have been removed by the hackers.
01:35Now, in the morning, a blank video was surfaced on the channel, which showcased a clarification
01:40pertaining to a $2 billion fine imposed by the Securities and Exchange Commission of
01:44the United States of America and Ripple Labs' response to it.
01:49However, since then, the channel has been disabled and Registry has taken cognizance
01:54of the matter and will soon look into what caused this breach.
01:58All right, and to discuss this further, we are now joined by Jitin Jain, he's a cyber
02:06security expert, the director of Voyager Infosec.
02:10We'll also be joined by Om Harvalkar and also Mr. Sanjay Shintre, he's the Deputy Inspector
02:17General of Police, Maharashtra Cybercrime Division, but we'll go across to them in just
02:21a bit.
02:23Let's begin with Jitin Jain.
02:25Jitin, hi, thank you very much for coming on the show.
02:29Now, Jitin, obviously, the Supreme Court's YouTube handle being hacked on a day that
02:35important cases were being heard, there was a PIL that was going to be heard, raises a
02:43lot of questions about how capable really our institutions are in dealing with such
02:49kind of cyber attacks.
02:52What do you make of what's happened?
02:54No, but I think the way we have digitalized our entire country and economy in the last
03:00decade, probably we have not been able to keep pace in imparting digital cybersecurity
03:06education or digital hygiene to our society.
03:08And that is the reason you see more and more institutions are going digital, they're adopting
03:12technology, they're getting familiar with technology in order to help the public.
03:16But at the same time, they do not have competent staff, which is able to deal with the cybersecurity
03:22challenges.
03:23They are usually dependent on normal IT teams.
03:25They are good with technology, but they're not good with security.
03:28And this is a problem we are facing across institutions.
03:30And there is a humongous lack of skilled cyber manpower in India.
03:33And this is one of the reasons why we keep seeing a lot of hacks, attacks happening across
03:39our institutions.
03:40And specifically coming to this incident of Supreme Court channel getting hacked, you
03:45see, we have seen handles of former US presidents getting hacked, US mainstream channels getting
03:50hacked, and they're all being used to post cryptocurrency scam advertisement.
03:54So this has been happening across the world, we are no exception.
03:58And this is basically used to hack a trusted handle and then take advantage of the viewership
04:04of that handle and then post this scammy ad so that people trust them and click on them.
04:07A lot of people fall prey to the scams.
04:10The bigger question here is, it is Supreme Court whose handle got hacked and that is
04:15why it is making a news.
04:16There are hundreds of people whose YouTube accounts, Instagram accounts get hacked every
04:19day.
04:20And they have nowhere to go.
04:21This whole grievance control mechanism of these private companies have completely failed.
04:26There is no recourse to have any grievances heard by these companies.
04:30These companies who make billions of dollars in profit in India, they do not even have
04:33a 100 people call center where you can call up and ask your grievance to be heard or a
04:38hacked account to be restored.
04:40And this is a question we must be asking, can Supreme Court today follow the ordinary
04:44process what a citizen has to follow to the grievance heard by these companies by filling
04:48up a form which sends an automated bot reply, nobody responds for one month, two months
04:53and you're made to run pillar to post and you're there.
04:57Can the registrar general of Supreme Court follow the same route which is offered to
05:00a common man?
05:01That should be a question we must be asking.
05:02And the second question would be that these companies who are minting billions of dollars
05:08in India, can they not be compelled to spend at least 1% of that money on providing a credible
05:15customer care or a support center in India?
05:18Even a small washing machine or a microwave you buy from a store, even they provide a
05:23normal call center to call up, help and seek support.
05:25These companies are completely struggled with any responsibility, they're not accountable.
05:30They give a damn about the ordinary people.
05:32If it is big people or some government institutions, they might restore their account within a
05:35few hours.
05:36If it is about a common man or influencers, it might take months and months and even after
05:41that it may not be restored.
05:43And you're absolutely right when you say, you know, there is really nowhere that you
05:48can go when you have a grievance like this.
05:50But the other side of it is just look at the reputational damage this causes.
05:56Now the Supreme Court is one of the pillars of our democracy and that it's handle being
06:01hacked.
06:02And people actually log into this YouTube channel to listen to the court, how matters
06:08in the court are being talked about and especially, you know, constitution benches, their hearings
06:15are actually live streamed.
06:19Of course, you will see lots of people watch these channels in real time to see the live
06:23stream of their court hearings and the matters of public importance.
06:26And this is what these hackers are trying to take advantage of.
06:28They are trying to probably hack these handles and post these scammy ads during the time
06:33and a lot of people will be logging in and watching them.
06:36And even if they get 0.02% of people to click on those ads and get scammed, their job is
06:41done.
06:42But the bigger question is that, you know, was two-factor authentication or other security
06:46mechanisms implemented on those accounts?
06:50How were hackers able to obtain those OTPs?
06:53How were they able to bypass?
06:54Was it a scam where they tricked a Supreme Court employee to reveal the OTP or was it
06:59a sabotage or insider job?
07:01It's more important to know how it happened than to know what has happened.
07:05Right.
07:06Absolutely.
07:07We're just going to come back to you, Jiten, on how this could have happened and what kind
07:11of methods could have been used.
07:12But first, I'm going to bring in Mr. Sanjay Shintre.
07:15He's the Deputy Inspector General of Police of the Maharashtra Cybercrime Division.
07:19Mr. Shintre, good evening.
07:21Thank you very much for speaking to us on NDTV Profit.
07:23Now, Mr. Shintre, you know, the Supreme Court's YouTube channel being hacked today has raised
07:30a lot of questions about how capable our institutions are in dealing with cyberattacks.
07:35This obviously is also causing a lot of reputational damage.
07:39How do you see this?
07:40It is not a question of hacking.
07:45It is a question of who has created, who has used the credential while opening this YouTube
07:51channel.
07:52That person has submitted or while opening this channel, they have must submitted the
08:01email IDs, email IDs, two email IDs they have submitted there.
08:06And I think the common man who is running that video YouTube channel, if there, if his
08:14email ID has been hacked, then automatically the access of that YouTube channel or credentials
08:21goes to the hacker.
08:23It is a simple technique.
08:24Once he, whoever is running this video YouTube channel, he has to take precaution that his
08:32email ID, which has been provided to Google, and he should place some security measures
08:41there that Google, Google provides OTP, OTP also there, and that authentication should
08:49be there.
08:50Because what happens here, the silly mistake of this YouTube handler, YouTube, who has
08:57created this YouTube channel and who has submitted the email IDs to this Google platform to run
09:05this YouTube channel, then it is a silly mistake that his email ID, if it is compromised
09:13by this hacker and he is not checking the, or he is not updating, or he is not choosing
09:20other credentials to run this YouTube channel, that is a major mistake by this YouTube operator.
09:32Are you then suggesting that we need to train these people better?
09:36Is that one of the problems that we are facing?
09:39Yes.
09:40Yes.
09:41Yes.
09:42We have to train them because to create a YouTube channel, it is an easy task.
09:47But the email, which is handled by this operator, who has submitted this credential to the Google,
09:55and if that email is compromised, or if the credentials are, if he, suppose, from that
10:03email, for this email, if he gets some mischievous link, and if he opens that link in that email
10:13ID, then automatically all access of that email ID and all the credentials, whoever,
10:20whatever he has created there, they go to the hacker.
10:23And he simply hacked that YouTube channel.
10:26Right.
10:27Now, Mr. Shintere, so far we are given to understand that the YouTube handle has still
10:31not been restored.
10:32And I think this hacking took place at about 12 in the afternoon.
10:36So how long?
10:37Only thing he has to do there, whatever the emails used to queue that YouTube channel,
10:46he has to log out all these emails.
10:50Then he has to again log in with a different credentials, he has to change the credentials.
10:56And again, he can restore that YouTube channel.
10:58That is, it is simple one.
10:59Right.
11:00Not a rocket science, simple one.
11:03But obviously, sir, questions are being raised about how safe our institutions are.
11:09No, no, no, they have to train there.
11:13These people should be trained there.
11:16That is the basic thing they should know, how secure, because he has to log out all
11:21the email addresses, which there is one email address, which is on that he has submitted
11:29to YouTube.
11:30And then there is a re-query email also, he has to log out all these and then log in and
11:37then change all the credentials of the email IDs, then he can run this YouTube channel
11:43as usual.
11:44All right.
11:46Mr. Ashintre, thank you very much for joining us.
11:49As you're pointing out, obviously, better vigilance perhaps from the court side, but
11:55also better vigilance in terms of training needs to be provided.
12:00Jitendra, one final question to you.
12:03What are the measures that should be put in place in a situation like this?
12:08Because obviously, as I was earlier saying, there is going to be a lot of damage to the
12:12reputation of these institutions.
12:15No, first of all, I think it's taking so much time because mighty Americans are sleeping
12:21and Supreme Court has to wait for the Lord Viceroy to wake up in America and then restore
12:25the account.
12:26Beyond that, then, you know, the content has to be restored.
12:29And you never know that the emails are compromised or the machine was compromised.
12:32How do you deal with that problem so that it doesn't happen again?
12:36But then there's a vital question.
12:37What about the other people?
12:38NIC has been hacked so many times, a lot of government servants have been hacked.
12:41But what happens to the common people who are losing 5,000, 10,000 rupees every now
12:44and then?
12:45Their grievances are not heard.
12:46Their cases are not registered.
12:47Their money is not recovered.
12:48I mean, 80% of the cybercrime today is happening with the people whose life savings are not
12:53even 50,000, 1 lakh rupees.
12:55And there is no will which appears in the government institutions to deal with the problem
13:01of those very people.
13:02So I think while we talk these big things about Supreme Court, I think now court has
13:05to wake up and take cognizance of the fact that what has happened to them today has been
13:09happening in thousands of numbers to common people every day and they are left without
13:14any recourse or any grievance redressal mechanism.
13:17So I think Supreme Court now must step in and ask government some tough questions.
13:21What is the mechanism for an ordinary man to get his account restored if it happens
13:24to him?
13:25What is the accountability of these companies?
13:26How much money are they spending on the support mechanism?
13:30Can these companies provide such a supportive mechanism or the restoration mechanism within
13:33India or do they have to wait for their great American companions to wake up in the morning
13:39and then restore these accounts?
13:41So there are bigger questions to ask and Supreme Court itself, I think a couple of years ago
13:44in a judgment said that they will be, when it was pointed out to them that these streamings
13:48are happening on foreign platforms, Supreme Court took cognizance and they committed that
13:52within a couple of years, I think the Supreme Court will have its own live stream mechanism.
13:56So probably the time has come for the court to shift to a made in India, homegrown live
14:00stream mechanism to do away with this problem of reliance on foreign dependence of technology.
14:04Right, absolutely.
14:05You know, and you were mentioning how does the common man fight something like this?
14:09I remember, I think it was a couple of years ago that CDSL, which is an important depository
14:15for India, one of the two key ones there, they were hacked and of course, you know,
14:20data of about 4 crore Indians essentially was hacked into and that information was compromised.
14:30Nupat, just a couple of months ago, there were defaked videos of Mr. Singhvi who runs
14:37a sister channel of yours, was floating around giving investment advices along with the,
14:42you know, SEBI chairman to people to invest in certain stocks.
14:45All those were stock scams.
14:47Even after Mr. Singhvi pointed out and, you know, continuously writing to me and calling
14:51them up that it's not me, because he could not prove that it was fake.
14:56So imagine the lack of common sense in these platforms, where common people are getting
15:02scorned, a celebrity calls up and says, it's not me, it's a fake video doing the rounds,
15:05people are being scammed.
15:06Then they still don't take it down.
15:09So it's not, you know, ignorance, it's indifference today towards Indian people.
15:13Absolutely.
15:14And perhaps, you know, the government has already started to look into it.
15:19We've had the Home Minister come out and talk about the measures that they plan to take.
15:23Thank you very much for joining us on the broadcast, Jiten.
15:29Thank you, Nupat.
15:36Well, now on to our next big story for today.
15:53Well, every parent wants to financially secure their children's future.
15:57Finance Minister Nirmala Sitharaman has launched the NPS Vatsalya scheme, which adheres to
16:02this idea.
16:04Now, the NPS Vatsalya scheme allows Indian parents to invest in the government's pension
16:08scheme on behalf of their children.
16:10We will shortly be joined by Akshat Srivastava, he's a hedge fund manager and a YouTuber.
16:16But before that, we're going to play out a report from Alex Matthew, our deputy editor,
16:23who is joining in with a quick explainer on how the NPS scheme for children actually works.
16:31All your questions answered about the NPS Vatsalya scheme.
16:35What is it?
16:36It's an extension to the National Pension Scheme.
16:38Who can invest in it?
16:40Any Indian citizen on behalf of a minor, that is somebody who is below 18 years of age,
16:44who is also an Indian citizen.
16:46NRIs can also invest with certain conditionalities.
16:49How to apply?
16:50Any branch of a large bank or at the post office, there's also the website of ENPS.
16:57Where does this scheme invest?
16:58Now, there are several options under this, either the default option, which is 50% into
17:03equity, the aggressive life cycle, which is 75% into equity, and then the guardian can
17:09choose various options from between equity, corporate bonds, government bonds and alternative
17:14assets.
17:15Finally, maturity and withdrawal, there are various options you can partially withdraw
17:19before the age of 18, after a lock-in period of three years, and that is for certain conditionalities
17:25for education, for example, or if there is an illness involved, you can do that on three
17:30separate occasions.
17:31Apart from that, at the age of 18, you can actually allow it to move into the NPS scheme
17:37naturally, or you can withdraw it at the age of 18.
17:41But then if the amount is over 2.5 lakh, you can only withdraw 20% and you have to invest
17:4780% into an annuity scheme.
17:49If it's less than 2.5 lakh or equal to 2.5 lakh, a complete withdrawal is possible.
17:54Remember that you have to invest a minimum of Rs. 1,000 per year and over the course
17:59of this investment, at least for the first investment.
18:03Should you invest?
18:04Most advisors say no, because of the lock-in period and the lack of liquidity.
18:09There are a lot of options available, so consider wisely.
18:12All right, that of course was a report from Alex.
18:16We are now joined by Akshat Srivastava, he is a hedge fund manager and YouTuber from
18:20Wisdom Hatch.
18:21Hi Akshat.
18:22Hi Akshat, good to have you on the show.
18:25Akshat, now this scheme essentially is designed to encourage long-term savings for minors.
18:31Now the good part that one likes about it is that the amount can be as little as Rs.
18:371,000, making it accessible to families from all kinds of financial situations.
18:42Now what are your thoughts on the scheme?
18:46So there are pros and cons to it.
18:47So basically, and we can judge the pro and con on three different dimensions.
18:53The first dimension is the return that you would make, so that's point one.
18:57The second is the inflation rate in the economy, because if we invest in a very low-risk product
19:02and the inflation in the economy is really high, then it's a problem, right?
19:06Third and finally is the duration of the fund.
19:08So for example, if the lock-in is fairly long, then you have to start considering alternate
19:15forms of investment.
19:16But what I just said, it might not have made a lot of sense to a lot of people.
19:20So which brings us to the category of investors.
19:22For example, if you are someone who is new, you do not understand retirement planning
19:26much, you do not have the time in terms of investing, learning more about it, then possibly
19:31these type of retirement planning tools is something that you could consider.
19:35But if you are even a moderately sophisticated investor, then I think there are much better
19:40options in the market where you could consider growing your portfolio at a much faster pace
19:44for your kids.
19:45Right.
19:46Now, one of the things that the government has said and the finance minister touched
19:51upon is that this is with a sense to encourage long-term financial planning.
19:56Now, in that regard, it does seem like a good initiative because children can actually convert
20:02it into a regular NPS account when they turn 18.
20:07Now the other part of it, of course, is that, you know, does it make sense to turn it into
20:13a regular tier one NPS account at 18?
20:16Because, you know, that locks in the amount till a subscriber essentially reaches 60.
20:23To be honest, for most investors, the answer should be no, right?
20:27Again, the reason is the long lock-in and honestly, it's fairly easy to open up an NPS
20:32account.
20:33So if someone wants to open an NPS account when they are 18, 19, they do not want to
20:36learn finance, etc., maybe do it then.
20:39If parents know how to invest a little bit of time, generate better returns for their
20:45kids, even let's compare the most basic kind of an instrument, right?
20:48I mean, the easiest investing that one could do is nifty-fifty.
20:52If you want like complete exposure to equities, then the growth rate possibly could be faster
20:56in that, right?
20:57Depending on the type of tier in which you are investing in this particular scheme.
21:02So from that angle, I don't see like any major advantage per se.
21:05But again, the question comes down to the sophistication of investor.
21:08If the investor is sophisticated enough, then of course, you don't need to touch the scheme.
21:13If you are a complete beginner, you are just thinking, you know what, let me just start
21:17somewhere.
21:18So this could be a starting point from that consideration.
21:20Right.
21:21Just looking at the scheme, you know, it does play upon the power of compounding, but liquidity
21:28is going to be a major pain point since the scheme is very limited in providing options
21:32for withdrawals.
21:34And in fact, I think only three are allowed.
21:37Right.
21:38So that's the problem with almost any long term retirement planning tool, right?
21:44I mean, even if you take a look at EPF, PF, that's the same problem that you get logged
21:49in in a scheme where your returns could potentially be average in accordance with the market and
21:56you get logged in for a fairly long period of time.
21:58So again, I keep going back to that same discussion that it's about how sophisticated the investor
22:03is.
22:05However, in most cases, it would not make sense.
22:06These days, there's a lot of financial education available.
22:09But if you say that, you know what, I'm choosing not to avail that, then it's okay.
22:12Right.
22:13I mean, you need to start somewhere.
22:14And this could be a great starting point.
22:16As an alternate, I would still encourage people to look at index investing.
22:19That's again, slightly higher risk investing, I would say.
22:22But you know, typically speaking, Nifty 50 on such a long period of time, when you get
22:26logged in for decades, right, I mean, on that note, Nifty 50 is usually like, you know,
22:31comes out on top.
22:32So yeah, just consider that as an alternate that you could study.
22:36Right.
22:37Now, also, just a quick question on the tax benefits.
22:40Now, there is still no clarity on that, we understand.
22:43But do you think that this will most likely be similar to what's there for the regular
22:46NPS scheme?
22:49Is that something, you know, that one would assume?
22:53I would say yes, they might give like additional consideration, because this is for your kids.
22:57It's very likely that for example, if I'm a parent, I'm already investing in NPS, so
23:00I'm getting separate tax advantage for me.
23:03Now, if I'm bringing my kid into the Vatsalya scheme, then maybe, you know, you would give
23:09me a top up right in terms of the tax savings that I could do.
23:12All right.
23:13And for parents who are watching this, and there will be a large number of them, what
23:18would you say is the best scheme to invest in for their children?
23:22See, as I'm a parent of two kids, my daughter is one year old, and my son is four.
23:29So their name is Zavya and Zain.
23:31So what would I do?
23:33I would personally not put money in this, right?
23:35Why?
23:36Because I have the experience of managing money.
23:38I think I can grow it faster for my kids.
23:42What I would typically recommend is that you start your journey somewhere, because taking
23:45step one is the most difficult step.
23:47I would, anyone goes through that, right?
23:50So from a starting point of view, fine, take the step, but continue to learn, continue
23:54to learn about the markets, continue to learn about different asset classes, locking your
23:59money for such long duration, there can be a lot of hidden challenges, right, which you
24:04might not anticipate, for example, you might require more money than you require right
24:09at certain stage in time, then you know that liquidity hits, there can be taxed changes,
24:13right, which can happen over a certain duration of time.
24:17So there's no clarity from that perspective, therefore, be very careful in terms of locking
24:21your money in long term instruments, right, unless you see a very clear advantage for
24:26yourself, given your investment style, portfolio management style.
24:29All right, Akshata, appreciate your joining us on this.
24:33Thank you very much for taking out the time to be with us on NDTV Profit.
24:37Thank you, Nupul.
24:38Take care.
24:39Well, on that note, it's a goodbye from us on The Big Story this evening.
24:43Thank you very much for joining in.
24:44But do stay tuned to NDTV Profit for more.
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