Ruta 5N: Las claves del debate entre Kamala Harris y Donald Trump
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00:03:14Zelensky y Putin, y lo hicieron, y la guerra comenzó tres días después.
00:03:19De nuevo, lo dije al principio de este debate,
00:03:21vas a escuchar un montón de mentiras que vienen de este chico,
00:03:23y esa es otra.
00:03:25Cuando fui a reunirme con el presidente Zelensky,
00:03:27ahora lo he reunido con él más de cinco veces.
00:03:29Si Donald Trump fuera presidente,
00:03:31Putin estaría sentado en Kiev en este momento.
00:03:33¿Y por qué no dices a los 800.000 americanos polacos
00:03:37aquí en Pensilvania,
00:03:39cuánto rápido se darían
00:03:41por favor,
00:03:43y lo que piensas que es una amistad
00:03:45con lo que es conocido como un dictador
00:03:47que te comería para el almuerzo?
00:04:11La importancia que tiene uno de los puestos de trabajo
00:04:13que tiene el presidente de Estados Unidos
00:04:15que es ser comandante en jefe del ejército.
00:04:17En este caso es verdad que Trump partía
00:04:19con una cierta ventaja porque ha sido cuatro años
00:04:21ya comandante en jefe, Kamala Harris
00:04:23ha sido vicepresidenta.
00:04:25En este aspecto tan esencial para el votante
00:04:27indeciso de Estados Unidos,
00:04:29¿cómo crees que se desenvolvió Kamala Harris
00:04:31frente a Trump?
00:04:33Según todas las encuestas para el segmento
00:04:35de los votantes indecisos,
00:04:37la política exterior no juega un papel determinante,
00:04:39pero sí la seguridad nacional del país.
00:04:41Y lo que vimos anoche fue una persona
00:04:43que dio la talla
00:04:45y que creo que apelaba a esos
00:04:47votantes indecisos, dejándoles saber
00:04:49que es una persona fuerte, que sabe
00:04:51de política exterior, y desde luego
00:04:53la narrativa,
00:04:55ese relato va a ir a más.
00:04:57Lo que hemos visto ha sido una serie de errores garrafales
00:04:59que cometió Donald Trump
00:05:01en política exterior, cayendo
00:05:03en la trampa que
00:05:05Kamala Harris supo
00:05:07ponerle y perder el control,
00:05:09perder los estribos, y eso creo que le va a ser
00:05:11más daño que el fondo
00:05:13de la política exterior.
00:05:15Hay otro asunto también inédito y que lo repetimos
00:05:17de vez en cuando, pero es verdad que es la primera
00:05:19vez que una mujer de
00:05:21raza negra se presenta como
00:05:23candidata a presidenta de Estados Unidos.
00:05:25El asunto de la raza
00:05:27está planeando también
00:05:29en esta campaña desde hace meses
00:05:31este era el intercambio que tenían sobre este asunto.
00:05:37...
00:06:03Este es otro asunto difícil de
00:06:05calcular fuera de Estados Unidos,
00:06:07Juan, pero hace ocho años fue Hillary
00:06:09Clinton, una mujer blanca.
00:06:11Han pasado ocho años.
00:06:13¿Crees que los sesgos
00:06:15frente a una candidata mujer,
00:06:17frente a una candidata negra, se han podido
00:06:19superar? ¿Que la situación es distinta ahora
00:06:21respecto a lo que pudo sufrir Hillary
00:06:23hace ocho años?
00:06:25Creo que sí. Creo que el electorado norteamericano
00:06:27es hoy mucho más maduro de lo que
00:06:29era hace ocho años. Eso por un lado.
00:06:31Y por otro, el voto de la mujer en particular.
00:06:33Hay dos factores que cambian
00:06:35de manera determinante
00:06:37en comparación a lo que fue la campaña
00:06:39de Hillary. En primer lugar, que las mujeres
00:06:41no sabían ni habían visto gobernar
00:06:43al señor Trump. Hoy ya
00:06:45tienen un punto de referencia.
00:06:47Las mujeres han perdido derechos.
00:06:49Hoy, por hoy, los derechos
00:06:51reproductivos de la mujer están bajo
00:06:53tela de juicio. Y sobre todo
00:06:55el tema racial, donde también se está
00:06:57utilizando para
00:06:59fomentar la desigualdad, para
00:07:01fomentar el odio y la diferencia.
00:07:03Y creo que el relato de la candidata
00:07:05claramente es un
00:07:07relato de unir
00:07:09y de eliminar diferencias.
00:07:11Y eso, la verdad, es un tema mucho más
00:07:13de optimismo, de ilusión versus
00:07:15volver al pasado, a esa América
00:07:17que fue racista y que no debería
00:07:19seguir siéndolo.
00:07:21Juan, ha pasado el debate.
00:07:23¿Ahora qué? ¿Dónde están las claves
00:07:25de las próximas semanas en esta campaña electoral?
00:07:27Pues la clave
00:07:29principal para Kamala Harris va a ser
00:07:31mantener ese nivel de ilusión,
00:07:33de entusiasmo que se respira
00:07:35hoy en Estados Unidos. Creo que vivimos
00:07:37un momento en estos
00:07:39últimos
00:07:41meses de euforia política
00:07:43casi. Creo que la última vez que se sintió
00:07:45algo así en Estados Unidos fue en la campaña
00:07:47del presidente
00:07:49Obama. Y creo que esa es
00:07:51la clave, mantener esa ilusión
00:07:53para que la tendencia siga
00:07:55siendo positiva para Kamala Harris.
00:07:57Es muy difícil parar a un candidato
00:07:59que sube y a un candidato que baja.
00:08:01Esa es la clave, mantener esa tendencia.
00:08:03¿Ves algún parecido
00:08:05en lo que fue la campaña de Obama
00:08:07en cuanto al entusiasmo de la gente o la
00:08:09movilización de la gente respecto
00:08:11a Kamala Harris, lo que fue
00:08:13la campaña de Obama y lo que es la campaña ahora
00:08:15de Kamala Harris?
00:08:17Sí, a eso me refería en cuanto a que estamos siendo
00:08:19testigos a lo que es un movimiento
00:08:21civil, movimiento ciudadano. Se están rompiendo
00:08:23los récords de personas
00:08:25que donan a la campaña, donaciones pequeñas
00:08:27de 5, 10, 15 dólares.
00:08:29Se han roto los récords en cuanto a
00:08:31número de personas que
00:08:33se presentan
00:08:36como voluntarios para trabajar en los estados
00:08:38claves. Estamos viendo un movimiento
00:08:40de gente joven que da un paso
00:08:42al frente e intenta
00:08:44participar de forma mucho más activa
00:08:46y mucho más
00:08:48constante. Eso no se veía
00:08:50en Estados Unidos desde
00:08:52Obama y puede ser la clave
00:08:54que le dé al final
00:08:56ese factor
00:08:58para decantar la balanza en las últimas
00:09:00semanas. Un par de cosas más,
00:09:02Juan. Mencionas el voto joven.
00:09:04En estas próximas semanas, a la hora
00:09:06de analizar cómo va la campaña
00:09:08más allá de lo que son los
00:09:10seguidores fervientes de Donald
00:09:12Trump o de Kamala Harris,
00:09:14¿en qué bolsas de voto
00:09:16tenemos que fijarnos para saber
00:09:18que la balanza se puede inclinar
00:09:20en torno a Trump o en torno
00:09:22a Harris? Esta es una muy buena pregunta
00:09:24porque la inmensa mayoría de los norteamericanos
00:09:26ya han tomado una decisión.
00:09:28Aproximadamente el
00:09:308% de los ciudadanos norteamericanos
00:09:32están aún indecisos
00:09:34y particularmente lo que importa es
00:09:36esos indecisos, ese 8%
00:09:38en esos 7 estados
00:09:40indecisos. El segmento de la
00:09:42población es muy pequeño.
00:09:44Estamos hablando de que probablemente estas
00:09:46terminarán siendo las elecciones más
00:09:48reñidas, más ajustadas en la historia de
00:09:50Estados Unidos y al final la diferencia
00:09:52puede ser un estado como Pensilvania
00:09:54o como Arizona o
00:09:56alguno de estos estados
00:09:58claves de 10, 20, 30 mil
00:10:00votos que sería estadísticamente
00:10:02hablando casi insignificante.
00:10:04De eso estamos hablando, de un segmento
00:10:06de la población muy pequeño que al final
00:10:08va a decidir en la última
00:10:10recta final, en las últimas
00:10:12dos, tres semanas según
00:10:14las estadísticas y el histórico.
00:10:16Y ya por último, los estados
00:10:18que mencionas ahora
00:10:20¿todo se decidirá en Pensilvania?
00:10:22¿finalmente en Pensilvania?
00:10:24¿Georgia? ¿tenemos
00:10:26que mirar a una lista más amplia
00:10:28de estados donde puede haber sorpresas?
00:10:30Pensilvania
00:10:32es absolutamente determinante
00:10:34los republicanos
00:10:36o los demócratas tienen
00:10:38que ganar Pensilvania. Sin Pensilvania
00:10:40no hay fórmula alguna de llegar
00:10:42a la mayoría del voto
00:10:44del colegio electoral.
00:10:46Habiendo dicho eso
00:10:48nosotros tenemos una
00:10:50desventaja y es que los demócratas tenemos
00:10:52que ganar el voto popular, ellos no.
00:10:54Y eso crea para nosotros
00:10:56muchas más
00:10:58combinaciones, pero Pensilvania va a ser
00:11:00el eje central, tenemos que ganar Pensilvania
00:11:02y al menos dos
00:11:04grandes estados de esos siete
00:11:06estados bisagra. Una vez
00:11:08más van a ser unas elecciones muy
00:11:10muy ajustadas, muy reñidas.
00:11:12Estadísticamente estamos ante un empate
00:11:14técnico con uno o dos puntos
00:11:16en las encuestas a favor de uno
00:11:18o a favor de otro, pero siempre dentro de ese
00:11:20margen de error de un 3 a un 5%, o sea
00:11:22que todo puede pasar.
00:11:24Una cosa más
00:11:26Juan, tú que conoces tanto las
00:11:28campañas electorales en Estados Unidos
00:11:30hoy estamos hablando mucho de este
00:11:32debate presidencial, ¿hasta qué punto crees que esto
00:11:34puede ser determinante para el voto?
00:11:36¿O es un evento
00:11:38televisivo que dura 24 horas
00:11:40y que después se difumina en el resto de la
00:11:42campaña sin que tenga ningún efecto práctico?
00:11:46El debate ha sido
00:11:48extremadamente importante y de manera
00:11:50sorprendente cuando no suele serlo
00:11:52precisamente porque
00:11:54los indecisos son muy pocos
00:11:56y porque para ellos probablemente
00:11:58anoche fue la única oportunidad que van
00:12:00a tener de ver un debate presidencial.
00:12:02Dudo seriamente que Donald Trump
00:12:04quiera volver a aceptar la
00:12:06oferta que le ha hecho a la
00:12:08vicepresidenta de tener un segundo o incluso
00:12:10un tercer debate y por consiguiente creo que
00:12:12anoche fue muy
00:12:14importante. Habiendo dicho eso, lo cierto
00:12:16es que lo importante es ahora.
00:12:18Lo que tenía que hacer Kamala Harris
00:12:20era mostrar
00:12:22una candidatura sólida, fuerte
00:12:24que podía hacerle frente a Donald Trump.
00:12:26Ese objetivo se ha alcanzado y a partir
00:12:28de ahora es ir a por esos segmentos de
00:12:30voto indeciso en esos siete
00:12:32estados con una serie de argumentos
00:12:34claves, una de futuro, de
00:12:36progreso, de ir hacia adelante y el otro
00:12:38en el caso de Trump que habla de
00:12:40un relato mucho más
00:12:42fomentando la división, el odio
00:12:44y volver al pasado en un
00:12:46modelo de país que ya no existe.
00:12:48Juan Verde, asesor de presidentes de Estados
00:12:50Unidos, consultor político
00:12:52muy cercano a lo que está pasando ahora mismo
00:12:54en Estados Unidos. Gracias por estar
00:12:56en directo en el programa.
00:12:58Ha sido un placer.
00:13:00José Miguel Contreras es
00:13:02catedrático de comunicación política en la
00:13:04Universidad del Rey Juan Carlos. Hoy le podéis
00:13:06leer en el diario El País
00:13:08José Miguel, otro de los aspectos
00:13:10que destacas hoy en tu artículo
00:13:12es la importancia que tienen los
00:13:14equipos de campaña a la hora de preparar a los candidatos
00:13:16para un debate en el que ellos son los
00:13:18visibles, pero que probablemente hay semanas
00:13:20previas de preparación. ¿Qué quería
00:13:22el equipo de Harris? ¿Qué quería el equipo de
00:13:24Trump en este debate?
00:13:26Sí, porque en este
00:13:28debate es especialmente trascendente
00:13:30porque yo creo que han tenido un papel decisivo.
00:13:32Normalmente, lógicamente, como
00:13:34ocurre en cualquier espectáculo,
00:13:36si se permite entrecomillarlo,
00:13:38una cuestión es
00:13:40quién da la cara y otra
00:13:42distinta es todo lo que hay
00:13:44detrás de aparataje
00:13:46a la hora de construir esa aparición
00:13:48pública. En el caso,
00:13:50tanto de Trump como de
00:13:52Kamala Harris, contaba con
00:13:54dos equipos muy potentes
00:13:56pero con personalidades
00:13:58también absolutamente opuestas
00:14:00y yo creo que lo que ocurrió
00:14:02anoche tiene mucho que ver
00:14:04con el cruce de dos estrategias
00:14:06que entraron en choque
00:14:08y que claramente una
00:14:10funcionó mucho mejor que la otra.
00:14:12Básicamente, por
00:14:14intentar resumirlo
00:14:16con la máxima brevedad posible,
00:14:18los dos equipos partían
00:14:20de dos sistemas de trabajo completamente
00:14:22diferentes. Por un lado,
00:14:24el equipo de
00:14:26Donald Trump, muy
00:14:28adaptado a su
00:14:30personalidad, es un equipo que
00:14:32no entrena, que es un equipo que
00:14:34básicamente se dedica a preparar
00:14:36argumentos. Se sientan alrededor
00:14:38del candidato durante diferentes
00:14:40sesiones y sesiones
00:14:42y piensan qué es lo que el rival le va a
00:14:44decir y qué es lo que diría en ese caso.
00:14:46El equipo de Trump
00:14:48es un equipo de absoluta confianza
00:14:50total, a la cabeza del cual
00:14:52hay un personaje
00:14:54bastante
00:14:56conflictivo, como todo lo que rodea
00:14:58el expresidente, que se llama Jason Miller,
00:15:00acompañado de
00:15:02otros
00:15:04diferentes especialistas,
00:15:06todos ellos unidos por ser gente
00:15:08muy muy dura de puro
00:15:10lenguaje trumpista. Todos están
00:15:12rodeados de escándalos, en muchos
00:15:14casos sexuales
00:15:16o grandes
00:15:18polémicas que han arrastrado
00:15:20su personalidad y su carrera.
00:15:22Suelen ser polemistas que
00:15:24trabajan para tertulias, normalmente
00:15:26canales de ultraderecha
00:15:28y cuyo lenguaje
00:15:30fundamental y la manera de
00:15:32plantear la estrategia ha sido muy
00:15:34exitosa estos años. Consiste
00:15:36y a todos nos suena en ir
00:15:38a los debates, a mentir,
00:15:40a morder al
00:15:42rival, a no dejarle hablar,
00:15:44a contar generalidades
00:15:46y centrarse en datos
00:15:48absolutamente discutibles, pero
00:15:50que en una polémica
00:15:52abierta son difícilmente
00:15:54contrastables y sólo con eso
00:15:56le han funcionado muy bien.
00:15:58Hasta ahora, hasta anoche,
00:16:00el equipo de
00:16:02Kamala Harris es un equipo
00:16:04muy particular, es un equipo que
00:16:06lleva muchísimos años trabajando, de hecho
00:16:08es exactamente el mismo equipo que
00:16:10tenía
00:16:12el propio Joe Biden.
00:16:14Simplemente se trasladó
00:16:16y antes de Joe Biden habían trabajado
00:16:18con Obama y con casi todos
00:16:20los miembros del Partido Demócrata
00:16:22desde hace años. La persona fundamental
00:16:24es una persona para hacer
00:16:26casi una serie de televisión,
00:16:28es Karen Dunn,
00:16:30es una abogada que
00:16:32trabaja en casos de enorme importancia
00:16:34con gran reputación. Ahora mismo, por ejemplo,
00:16:36está llevando la demanda del Estado
00:16:38norteamericano de la administración
00:16:40contra Google por
00:16:42asuntos de antimonopolio.
00:16:44Pero
00:16:46absolutamente vinculada al Partido
00:16:48Demócrata y junto al gran
00:16:50hombre, el especialista en
00:16:52debates en Estados Unidos de las últimas décadas,
00:16:54Samarron Klein, que fue jefe
00:16:56de gabinete con Joe Biden,
00:16:58han creado desde hace años
00:17:00una escuela de cómo preparar
00:17:02debates electorales. ¿En qué consiste
00:17:04esa escuela? Básicamente en
00:17:06ensayar, ensayar
00:17:08y finalmente ensayar.
00:17:10Todo está basado en tener
00:17:12todo absolutamente preparado,
00:17:14no dejar ni un detalle al aire.
00:17:16Son equipos que suelen
00:17:18reproducir el mismo estudio
00:17:20con el que luego se va a trabajar.
00:17:22Incluso tienen
00:17:24uno de los asesores, hace
00:17:26el papel, en este caso,
00:17:28de Donald Trump, vestido como Donald
00:17:30Trump, buscando la máxima credibilidad
00:17:32en las situaciones y practicando
00:17:34absolutamente todo. Ayer
00:17:36se veía cada gesto
00:17:38de Kamala Harris cuando
00:17:40estaba en escucha.
00:17:42Era bastante impresionante verlo
00:17:44desde el punto de vista técnico, como
00:17:46el hecho de que no hubiera micrófonos abiertos
00:17:48en principio impedía
00:17:50la posibilidad de interrumpir,
00:17:52la posibilidad de decir que
00:17:54algo era mentira, de matizar
00:17:56un detalle. Como no lo podían hacer
00:17:58con micro abierto, Kamala
00:18:00hizo un auténtico
00:18:02despliegue de capacidad
00:18:04gestual.
00:18:06Incluso a veces se le podían leer
00:18:08los labios diciendo eso no es verdad.
00:18:10Y ponía permanentemente
00:18:12un gesto que chocaba mucho
00:18:14con el de Trump y de alguna
00:18:16manera define la estrategia que los dos
00:18:18tenían. Ella habitualmente
00:18:20ponía cara un poco
00:18:22de no
00:18:24creer lo que estaba pasando, siguiendo
00:18:26esa tradición de toda la campaña
00:18:28de qué gente más rara es esta
00:18:30que rodea a Trump.
00:18:32¿Cómo puede decir esas cosas? Es completamente
00:18:34absurdo. No hay quien se lo crea.
00:18:36Sonreía. Nunca jamás
00:18:38aparecía agresiva. Simplemente
00:18:40le quitaba fuerza a los argumentos
00:18:42de Trump tantas veces repetidos
00:18:44como diciendo son completamente ridículos
00:18:46y sin sentido.
00:18:48Miraba a cámara permanentemente
00:18:50dirigiéndose al auditorio.
00:18:52Movía las manos siempre arriba
00:18:54con gestos abiertos
00:18:56que reflejan mucha
00:18:58capacidad de
00:19:00comunicación. Nunca puños
00:19:02cerrados, nunca gestos
00:19:04impositivos como suele utilizar
00:19:06Donald Trump. El gesto
00:19:08de Trump era todo lo contrario. Era una
00:19:10personalidad que tenía
00:19:12como clara idea ignorar la existencia
00:19:14de Kamala Harris, defender
00:19:16su proyecto frente al
00:19:18de Biden en un
00:19:20claro acto de displicencia,
00:19:22de no reconocimiento a la figura
00:19:24de Kamala Harris como una posible
00:19:26candidata. En esa estrategia
00:19:28ambas filosofías
00:19:30o ambos planteamientos
00:19:32chocaron y desde luego
00:19:34el resultado fue abrumadoramente
00:19:36a favor de la estrategia de Kamala Harris
00:19:38que pilló completamente por sorpresa
00:19:40a un Trump que pensando
00:19:42que haciendo lo mismo de siempre
00:19:44esta vez iba de nuevo
00:19:46a salir airoso.
00:19:48Hay unos Kamala Harris
00:19:50mantenidos siempre además a la ofensiva.
00:19:52Hay varios momentos en los que se puede ver como realmente
00:19:54ha corrado a Donald Trump. Uno es cuando
00:19:56menciona el legado que dejó
00:19:58el presidente Trump en Estados Unidos. Era este.
00:20:08Donald Trump nos dejó
00:20:10el peor desempleo desde la Gran Depresión.
00:20:12Donald Trump nos dejó
00:20:14la peor epidemia de salud
00:20:16pública en un siglo.
00:20:18Donald Trump nos dejó
00:20:20el peor ataque
00:20:22en nuestra democracia
00:20:24desde la guerra civil.
00:20:26Frente a eso, José Miguel,
00:20:28Kamala Harris repetía insistentemente
00:20:30hay que pasar página, hay que mirar
00:20:32hacia adelante. Ese mensaje
00:20:34que repiten tanto los políticos que es
00:20:36la palabra cambio al final.
00:20:38¿Cómo es posible que siga siendo tan
00:20:40efectivo ese mensaje en un
00:20:42debate como el de anoche?
00:20:44El número
00:20:46de votos que mueven toda
00:20:48confrontación electoral,
00:20:50el grupo de ciudadanos
00:20:52descontentos a los que la vida
00:20:54les va mal y que lo que buscan
00:20:56es una salida a sus problemas
00:20:58es extraordinario y suele
00:21:00ser un grupo
00:21:02decisivo en cualquier contienda.
00:21:04En este caso, para
00:21:06Biden primero y ahora
00:21:08heredado de alguna manera por Kamala Harris
00:21:10había un problema, que es esa
00:21:12campaña populista, demagógica
00:21:14típica del trumpismo, de acabar
00:21:16con las élites y de alguna
00:21:18manera
00:21:20llevar la bandera del
00:21:22cambio y de la modificación
00:21:24de todos los
00:21:26estándares existentes en una vida
00:21:28que a mucha gente no le termina
00:21:30de convencer, podía
00:21:32aparecer a Trump. La
00:21:34estrategia de Kamala Harris
00:21:36y de su equipo yo creo que fue extraordinariamente
00:21:38inteligente porque precisamente
00:21:40desde que salió Biden
00:21:42ella lo que ha hecho es apartarse
00:21:44nunca renunciar y nunca
00:21:46ha dicho nada por supuesto en contra de
00:21:48Biden, pero si vimos en el debate de ayer
00:21:50prácticamente Kamala Harris
00:21:52nunca citó a Joe Biden
00:21:54y solo lo citó una vez
00:21:56para decir yo no soy Joe Biden
00:21:58y desde luego yo no soy
00:22:00Donald Trump y a Donald Trump
00:22:02varias veces, en varias
00:22:04ocasiones hablaba de él como un
00:22:06presidente antiguo, con fórmulas
00:22:08antiguas, con fórmulas obsoletas
00:22:10presentándose ella como
00:22:12la alternativa precisamente al
00:22:14cambio de unos políticos
00:22:16ya mayores. Este juego
00:22:18de roles a veces provoca
00:22:20situaciones curiosas. Hace
00:22:22apenas unas semanas el político
00:22:24mayor incapacitado
00:22:26para poder ser presidente
00:22:28de los Estados Unidos era
00:22:30Biden frente a Trump. En el momento que Joe
00:22:32Biden desaparece y la pelea
00:22:34se transforma en Donald Trump
00:22:36con Kamala Harris, ¿quién es
00:22:38el político mayor
00:22:40anticuado y sobre el que se
00:22:42duda sobre su capacidad intelectual
00:22:44para ser presidente de los Estados Unidos?
00:22:46¡Pasa a ser Trump!
00:22:48Entonces el ejercicio
00:22:50fue muy bien aprovechado por
00:22:52Kamala y su equipo para
00:22:54ocupar ese espacio, el del
00:22:56cambio, el de la esperanza,
00:22:58el de la ilusión, el de romper
00:23:00con cánones anteriores
00:23:02y ya considerar a Trump algo
00:23:04que en 2016 era pero que ahora
00:23:06evidentemente no es. Ya
00:23:08conocemos a Donald Trump, conocemos
00:23:10sus resultados y de alguna manera
00:23:12la profusión mediática
00:23:14en la que vivimos permanentemente
00:23:16hace que los personajes se
00:23:18quemen, los modelos se quemen
00:23:20y ayer de alguna manera, a mi
00:23:22juicio, vimos
00:23:24hundirse el discurso trumpista
00:23:26por vez primera y ojalá
00:23:28sea un fenómeno
00:23:30extendido en todo el
00:23:32mundo. El propio Trump ayudaba
00:23:34en momentos a que esto ocurriera, recordemos
00:23:36que la única personalidad internacional
00:23:38que citó como referente importante
00:23:40fue Orban, que
00:23:42realmente mucha gente nos llevamos
00:23:44las manos a la cabeza en ese momento
00:23:46cuando dices, si esto es lo que ofreces
00:23:48como el gran referente internacional
00:23:50que te apoya, uno de los líderes
00:23:52más despreciados y más desprestigiados
00:23:54que puede existir ahora mismo en Europa
00:23:56mal camino representa.
00:23:58¿Crees que el debate puede influir
00:24:00en el 5 de noviembre de forma
00:24:02determinante o que esto se va a diluir
00:24:04dentro de una campaña vertiginosa en la que pasan
00:24:06cosas cada minuto?
00:24:08Bueno, seguro que el debate tiene una
00:24:10influencia decisiva en un elemento
00:24:12para mi clave y es que
00:24:14hasta ayer quedaba la duda
00:24:16de si Kamala Harris tenía
00:24:18personalidad, peso
00:24:20para poderse presentar
00:24:22como candidata a presidenta
00:24:24de Estados Unidos. Ayer la que
00:24:26se examinaba más que Trump
00:24:28que ya es más absolutamente
00:24:30conocido, era Kamala Harris.
00:24:32Kamala Harris era
00:24:34el centro de atención
00:24:36de todo el mundo y superó el
00:24:38examen con sobresaliente
00:24:40aspirando a matrícula. Realmente
00:24:42se vio a una personalidad
00:24:44política con muchísima fuerza
00:24:46con muchísima credibilidad
00:24:48con una capacidad de comunicación
00:24:50que nunca hasta ahora
00:24:52le habíamos visto, seguramente porque
00:24:54se había escondido y yo creo que
00:24:56aquí el equipo y la estrategia de comunicación
00:24:58ha sido brillante estas semanas
00:25:00de mantener a Kamala Harris
00:25:02un poco escondida para
00:25:04que no quemara sus argumentos, para que
00:25:06no quemara su
00:25:08explosión que tuvo
00:25:10lugar precisamente en el momento más
00:25:12oportuno cuando mayor atención
00:25:14mediática tenía. Queda mucho
00:25:16que decir. Ahora llegará,
00:25:18nos acercamos a octubre, hay
00:25:20una tradición en todas las elecciones
00:25:22norteamericanas desde hace muchos años
00:25:24que no sé si habéis hablado, que es el
00:25:26famoso Octaver Surprise, la sorpresa
00:25:28de octubre, todas
00:25:30las elecciones siempre
00:25:32el mes de octubre los partidos preparan
00:25:34un último golpe de efecto
00:25:36no quiero ni imaginarme lo que van a
00:25:38preparar los republicanos yendo por
00:25:40detrás en las encuestas
00:25:42y también que preparará
00:25:44el partido demócrata, pero atención a
00:25:46las sorpresas de octubre que todavía
00:25:48queda mucho por llevar. Todas las
00:25:50encuestas demuestran que el resultado
00:25:52es súper ajustado, en realidad
00:25:54el estar dos puntos
00:25:56arriba, tres arriba, es un indicativo
00:25:58pero no es la clave
00:26:00la clave son 50
00:26:02elecciones más
00:26:04al final distrito de Colombia
00:26:06todas las cuentas que se
00:26:08hacen ahora mismo ponen la atención
00:26:10en un estado llamado
00:26:12Pensilvania, justamente donde ayer se
00:26:14celebraba este debate
00:26:16y da, todo parece
00:26:18indicar que lo que ocurre en Pensilvania
00:26:20va a ser lo que determine
00:26:22el resultado del futuro del
00:26:24mundo entero, y
00:26:26hay hasta ya estudios estadísticos
00:26:28que hablan de que hay una ciudad en
00:26:30concreto que se llama Scranton
00:26:32que curiosamente
00:26:34en el anterior debate, si lo repasáis
00:26:36y lo encontráis, solo
00:26:38se cita una ciudad en todo el debate
00:26:40y lo hace
00:26:42Joe Biden, casualmente de
00:26:44todo Estados Unidos, cual es la única
00:26:46ciudad que cita Joe Biden en el
00:26:48anterior debate, Scranton
00:26:50Pensilvania, esta localidad
00:26:52que apenas tiene, no llega a 80.000
00:26:54habitantes, pero todo su área metropolitana
00:26:56nos reúne a casi 500.000
00:26:58parece que puede ser la decisiva
00:27:00que lleve que el voto
00:27:02en Pensilvania, donde ahora mismo están absolutamente
00:27:04empatados, sea el que
00:27:06dictamine quien gana las elecciones
00:27:08para los aficionados a anécdotas
00:27:10curiosas, Scranton es la ciudad
00:27:12donde se hacía la
00:27:14serie The Office
00:27:16que hacía Steve Carell, recordáis
00:27:18esa oficina lúgubre, terrible
00:27:20pues ese tipo de gente
00:27:22es la que va a decidir
00:27:24quien va a gobernar el mundo
00:27:26a partir de ahora, y
00:27:28esperemos que Steve Carell y su equipo
00:27:30no aparezcan, porque no solían
00:27:32tomar decisiones
00:27:34muy convincentes. Y si no me equivoco, creo que
00:27:36es la ciudad donde vivió de niña la familia
00:27:38Hillary Clinton con su familia en Scranton
00:27:40Pensilvania. José Miguel
00:27:42mencionabas antes a Karen Dunn como
00:27:44un personaje que podría ser
00:27:46protagonista de una serie de Netflix
00:27:48¿qué hay en la política americana
00:27:50que no sea merecedora de una serie
00:27:52de televisión?
00:27:54Cualquier personaje, cualquier hecho
00:27:56lo merece prácticamente
00:27:58Desde luego, es verdad que ya
00:28:00antes
00:28:02utilizaba la expresión espectáculo
00:28:04yo creo que, evidentemente
00:28:06la comunicación política
00:28:08tan condicionada
00:28:10por los medios que se utilizan
00:28:12hoy en día el poder
00:28:14la inmediatez
00:28:16la fuerza emocional
00:28:18la brevedad y la contundencia
00:28:20de las redes sociales, y la fragmentación
00:28:22ha roto
00:28:24todo lo que eran medios convencionales
00:28:26y por tanto
00:28:28todo tiene una fuerza
00:28:30extraordinaria, pero fijaos
00:28:32que seguro que es un tema que
00:28:34hoy se está hablando, la importancia que
00:28:36sigue teniendo la parte mediática
00:28:38nada yo creo de lo que ocurrió
00:28:40ayer, o sería la duda que hubiera ocurrido
00:28:42si
00:28:44David
00:28:46Muir y Lindsay Davis
00:28:48no hacen bien su trabajo como lo hicieron
00:28:50ayer fue absolutamente modélico
00:28:52por vez primera hemos visto
00:28:54a dos periodistas que hicieron
00:28:56de periodistas, que hacían las
00:28:58preguntas que tenían que hacer a los dos
00:29:00y que cada vez que uno de los dos no respondía
00:29:02a la pregunta, le reiteraba
00:29:04evidentemente como Donald Trump, una de sus
00:29:06técnicas habituales es nunca responder
00:29:08hubo más
00:29:10repreguntas a Donald Trump
00:29:12y luego hicieron un trabajo evidente
00:29:14y obligado de fact check
00:29:16cuando es palmario
00:29:18que alguno de los candidatos
00:29:20está mintiendo, si tú cierras
00:29:22los micrófonos e impides que
00:29:24un candidato le pueda decir al otro
00:29:26cuando está mintiendo que aquello
00:29:28es falso y lo hemos visto en debates
00:29:30en España y en Estados Unidos
00:29:32y en otros muchos países se
00:29:34produce un problema, que ocurre
00:29:36si un político miente abiertamente
00:29:38el otro
00:29:40candidato se le hace callar porque
00:29:42no está en su turno de palabra y los
00:29:44periodistas sencillamente
00:29:46se limitan elegantemente a después
00:29:48de uno que hable el otro sin
00:29:50dejar claro que uno de los dos está
00:29:52mintiendo
00:29:54descaradamente el efecto
00:29:56que se crea ante la ciudadanía no es de
00:29:58esquidistancia, no es de objetividad
00:30:00es de apoyar y proteger
00:30:02la mentira. Ayer
00:30:04este debate pasará a la historia
00:30:06desde luego por el buen funcionamiento
00:30:08la valentía de estos dos
00:30:10periodistas, que por cierto
00:30:12David Meir además estudió en la Universidad de
00:30:14Salamanca, alguien debería alguna vez poder
00:30:16aprovechar y preguntarle, no sé
00:30:18si habla español o no, pero
00:30:20estuvo incluso por España en una etapa
00:30:22de su vida
00:30:24hicieron de periodistas y creo
00:30:26que esto también tiene que formar parte
00:30:28de este histórico debate, uno
00:30:30de los más interesantes que desde luego yo
00:30:32he visto en
00:30:34varios años y que creo que tiene una
00:30:36trascendencia mucho más allá, incluso
00:30:38de lo que pueda ocurrir en esta
00:30:40campaña, porque puede mostrar
00:30:42un cambio realmente
00:30:44de cómo se puede combatir
00:30:46los discursos demagógicos,
00:30:48populistas, basados en la mentira
00:30:50en el insulto, en la descalificación
00:30:52con un trabajo bien preparado
00:30:54por parte de un candidato
00:30:56o en este caso una candidata
00:30:58además que muestra solidez y capacidad
00:31:00de liderar
00:31:02un proceso electoral como el que
00:31:04estamos viviendo. José Miguel Contreras,
00:31:06gracias por estar en el programa.
00:31:08Nada, vosotros, por la invitación.
00:31:10Uno de esos momentos
00:31:12a los que se refiere José Miguel Contreras, quizás
00:31:14el más simbólico, es en el que
00:31:16a cuenta del asunto
00:31:18de la inmigración, Donald Trump
00:31:20dice que en Springfield, Illinois
00:31:22la gente, los inmigrantes
00:31:24están comiéndose las mascotas
00:31:26de los ciudadanos
00:31:28estadounidenses. Ahí interviene
00:31:30el fact-checking en
00:31:32tiempo real de los periodistas y
00:31:34sucede esto.
00:31:50I just want to clarify here,
00:31:52you bring up Springfield, Ohio
00:31:54and ABC News did reach out to the
00:31:56city manager there. He told us
00:31:58there have been no credible reports of specific
00:32:00claims of pets being harmed, injured or
00:32:02abused by individuals within the
00:32:04immigrant community.
00:32:06You talk about extreme.
00:32:08You know,
00:32:10this is, I think,
00:32:12one of the reasons why in this
00:32:14election I actually have the
00:32:16endorsement of 200
00:32:18republicans who have
00:32:20formally worked with President Bush,
00:32:22Mitt Romney and John McCain
00:32:24including the endorsement
00:32:26of former Vice President
00:32:28Dick Cheney and Congress member
00:32:30Liz Cheney.
00:32:32His former Secretary
00:32:34of Defense has said the nation,
00:32:36the republic would never survive
00:32:38another Trump
00:32:40term. And
00:32:42when we listen...
00:32:44Boris Muñoz
00:32:46is a chronicler, a Venezuelan editor,
00:32:48he is an idea commissioner
00:32:50and also a
00:32:52columnist of El País.
00:32:54He was also the founder and
00:32:56opinion director of the New York Times in Spanish
00:32:58and Lynn Truax is
00:33:00a journalist specializing in
00:33:02immigration. Immigration was one of the
00:33:04central issues of the debate. Trump
00:33:06repeated several times
00:33:08the danger that existed in the United States
00:33:10due to the arrival of millions of people
00:33:12with the intention of committing crimes.
00:33:14To what extent do you think this issue
00:33:16can become the center of the campaign
00:33:18from now on, Lynn?
00:33:20Well, I think
00:33:22it can become the center of the
00:33:24campaign precisely
00:33:26because of this type of statements.
00:33:28It would be very interesting
00:33:30for immigration to become
00:33:32the center of the campaign
00:33:34because of concrete proposals,
00:33:36because of statements
00:33:38that clearly state the
00:33:40policies that one or another
00:33:42plans to apply
00:33:44and not because we have the bullshit
00:33:46that immigrants eat pets.
00:33:48Trump
00:33:50released this during the debate
00:33:52in the way he releases these
00:33:54things, which seems casual,
00:33:56it seems that it is something that occurs to him
00:33:58there, but it always
00:34:00works for him. If today you go
00:34:02to the main media,
00:34:04if you go to social networks,
00:34:06it is possible that this is the phrase,
00:34:08the most repeated quote
00:34:10of everything Trump said
00:34:12during the debate.
00:34:14And it also seems to me
00:34:16that this is the only thing
00:34:18that we are going to have circulating in the public
00:34:20discourse in these hours and days after the debate
00:34:22regarding immigration.
00:34:24The reality is that in this debate
00:34:26very little was spoken about
00:34:28immigration.
00:34:30The moderators,
00:34:32who I add to the appreciation of
00:34:34Professor Contreras, what a good job
00:34:36of fact-checking they did, and how much news was missing,
00:34:38but the moderators
00:34:40raised a very direct
00:34:42question to Kamala
00:34:44Harris regarding immigration
00:34:46and the border. And what
00:34:48Harris did was take
00:34:50the ball, take it to her field
00:34:52of lawyer
00:34:54and prosecutor,
00:34:56which is a place where it has
00:34:58been very easy and comfortable
00:35:00to position herself when she has to confront
00:35:02Trump, and what she did was talk about
00:35:04border security. She spent a lot
00:35:06of time talking about fentanyl. She spent a lot
00:35:08of time talking about how
00:35:10criminal groups
00:35:12have to be limited
00:35:14through the border.
00:35:16She talked about the lack of responsibility
00:35:18of Republican congressmen
00:35:20to advance legislation
00:35:22in Congress that would have allowed
00:35:24this. And the specific
00:35:26issue of immigrants crossing the border,
00:35:28she let it go, she did not address it.
00:35:30In that same
00:35:32intervention on immigration,
00:35:34when she said the issue of
00:35:36Trump's rallies, a hook
00:35:38that was clearly very well
00:35:40planned, and a hook that bit
00:35:42Trump. When she touches, what she said
00:35:44is that she invited
00:35:46people who were listening to attend
00:35:48a Trump rally, a Trump campaign event,
00:35:50and that there they would realize that
00:35:52people get bored,
00:35:54they leave, these events
00:35:56are not popular. When it is
00:35:58Trump's turn to talk about
00:36:00immigration in response, what he does is talk
00:36:02about his rallies and say that they are very popular,
00:36:04that people go,
00:36:06that this works properly.
00:36:08And towards the end,
00:36:10he refers to immigration
00:36:12and that's when he says about
00:36:14pets. Before
00:36:16entering this
00:36:18conversation with you,
00:36:20I started to review the transcript of
00:36:22the debate and
00:36:24I noticed how many times they had said
00:36:26some words. Immigration
00:36:28was mentioned seven times
00:36:30in the hour and a half of debate. Of these
00:36:32seven times, four were by the moderator,
00:36:34only three by the candidates.
00:36:36Immigrants was mentioned
00:36:38three times, one by the moderator.
00:36:40Mexico,
00:36:42which was one of the
00:36:44top issues of Donald Trump
00:36:46in the 2016 campaign,
00:36:48I think we all remember it,
00:36:50going down that ladder, I think it was still
00:36:52in 2015, announcing his candidacy,
00:36:54saying that Mexicans were
00:36:56rapists and drug traffickers.
00:36:58Well, the word Mexico
00:37:00was mentioned only once in the
00:37:02debate by Trump
00:37:04to refer to the fact that motorists
00:37:06were taking their businesses to Mexico.
00:37:08Central America
00:37:10was not mentioned
00:37:12and the word border
00:37:14was mentioned for 20 times
00:37:16and it was mostly
00:37:18to talk about this issue of
00:37:20delinquency. What I want to tell you
00:37:22is that in this sense, I think that
00:37:24during the debate, Kamala was successful
00:37:26because she avoided being talked about
00:37:28as the current vice-president
00:37:30who was in charge
00:37:32of security and
00:37:34immigration at the border,
00:37:36the border czar.
00:37:38They told her, and she has tried to
00:37:40get rid of that part.
00:37:42And what she did was to treat Trump as an
00:37:44ex-president and introduce her as a
00:37:46candidate and not as someone
00:37:48who should be giving accounts now
00:37:50because she is in charge
00:37:52at this time. Trump
00:37:54took this opportunity in his last
00:37:56two minutes of debate at the end,
00:37:58something that if he had done from the beginning
00:38:00he would have given us a
00:38:02specific debate on immigration
00:38:04much richer.
00:38:06Elin, let me, Boris, go to another
00:38:08of the issues that were also touched on in the debate
00:38:10that also caused the fact that journalists
00:38:12had to enter a fact-checking in
00:38:14real time, which is the issue that
00:38:16is repeated and that is always insisted on in all
00:38:18elections in the United States, which is
00:38:20abortion. This happened.
00:38:24They were trying to get Roe v. Wade
00:38:26into the states.
00:38:28And through the
00:38:30genius and heart
00:38:32and strength of
00:38:34six Supreme Court justices
00:38:36we were able to do that.
00:38:38Now, I believe in the exceptions for
00:38:40rape, incest and life of the mother.
00:38:42I believe strongly in it. Ronald Reagan did also.
00:38:44There is no state in this
00:38:46country where it is legal to kill a baby
00:38:48after it's born. Madam Vice President,
00:38:50I want to get your response to President Trump.
00:38:52Let's understand how we got here.
00:38:54Donald Trump
00:38:56hand-selected three members of the United States
00:38:58Supreme Court with the intention
00:39:00that they would undo the protections of Roe v. Wade.
00:39:02And they did
00:39:04exactly as he intended.
00:39:06And now in over 20 states
00:39:08there are Trump abortion
00:39:10bans. Trump abortion
00:39:12bans that make no exception even for
00:39:14rape and incest.
00:39:16You should ask, will she allow
00:39:18abortion in the eighth month, ninth month,
00:39:20seventh month?
00:39:22Ok, would you do that?
00:39:24Why don't you ask her that question?
00:39:26That's the problem. Because under Roe v. Wade
00:39:28you could do
00:39:30abortions in the seventh month,
00:39:32the eighth month.
00:39:34One does not have to abandon their faith
00:39:36or deeply held beliefs
00:39:38to agree.
00:39:40The government and Donald Trump
00:39:42certainly should not be telling a woman
00:39:44what to do with her body.
00:39:47Boris, I'm going with you.
00:39:49To what extent do you think this issue,
00:39:51like immigration, can become
00:39:53the center of debates or conversations
00:39:55from now on in the United States?
00:40:01I think you're muted, Boris.
00:40:03We see you, but we can't hear you.
00:40:05Boris,
00:40:07can you hear me?
00:40:09I think you've muted your microphone.
00:40:13We see you perfectly.
00:40:17Now, now.
00:40:19Can you hear me?
00:40:21What I was saying is that, well,
00:40:23thank you very much for this invitation to you, Carlos,
00:40:25to Elin, a pleasure to see you.
00:40:27It seems to me that these are issues
00:40:29that have already been in the campaign
00:40:31and will continue to be very present
00:40:33until the end. This is a cultural war
00:40:35and what you have to understand
00:40:37is that these are issues
00:40:39of the cultural battlefield.
00:40:41Abortion,
00:40:43migration, I don't agree
00:40:45with that. I remember that migration
00:40:47was not present in the debate.
00:40:49It was very present
00:40:51in my way of seeing it,
00:40:53and abortion, of course,
00:40:55was the other top issue
00:40:57with the economy.
00:40:59As for this, I think
00:41:01Kamala Harris, with that last line,
00:41:03emphasizing that Trump
00:41:05shouldn't be the person
00:41:07who decides about women's bodies,
00:41:09I think she noted
00:41:11a success, an important point,
00:41:13because she is looking
00:41:15precisely to cement
00:41:17the advantage that the women's electorate
00:41:19has, which is an advantage
00:41:21even of 10 points.
00:41:23And I think that yesterday
00:41:25precisely she was reinforcing
00:41:27that base of voters
00:41:29and also trying to
00:41:31pinch
00:41:33the number of indecisive
00:41:35that there are and that are the ones
00:41:37who will ultimately decide the election.
00:41:39I think
00:41:41these two issues
00:41:43will be kept very present,
00:41:45perhaps in a more
00:41:47emphatic way, and I agree
00:41:49with what Lynn said,
00:41:51that Trump wasted
00:41:53the opportunity to test
00:41:55Kamala's management
00:41:57as vice-president, to do a little more
00:41:59accountability
00:42:01in that sense, and basically
00:42:03that is due to what
00:42:05José Miguel said, that Trump
00:42:07prepared in the usual way
00:42:09and did not prepare
00:42:11as Kamala did,
00:42:13with a number of questions
00:42:15or topics
00:42:17to which he has been pointing
00:42:19very clearly,
00:42:21both with questions
00:42:23and with proposals.
00:42:25And I will return
00:42:27to the topic of abortion, but first I want
00:42:29to simply point out that
00:42:31former governor Chris Christie,
00:42:33who was also
00:42:35one of Trump's coaches
00:42:37during his
00:42:39training for the debates
00:42:41in previous opportunities,
00:42:43when leaving the debate
00:42:45he was interviewed and he said
00:42:47that Trump was not prepared for this debate,
00:42:49that it was a disaster,
00:42:51and that it really is what we saw
00:42:53on television,
00:42:55that Trump was simply
00:42:57attached to his
00:42:59political person,
00:43:01let's say, all this circus
00:43:03of grandeur, and he let
00:43:05important topics pass.
00:43:07Of course, the topic of abortion is a very
00:43:09contentious and difficult topic
00:43:11to address, and he has tried to evade it
00:43:13systematically, saying
00:43:15that he is supporting the decision
00:43:17of the states
00:43:19to have a point of view
00:43:21on whether
00:43:23women should have the right
00:43:25to abortion or not, and that is
00:43:27what Kamala Harris refers to when
00:43:29she talks about the 20
00:43:31states that have banned abortion.
00:43:33But she also refers,
00:43:35and we will see this later,
00:43:37that there are two states
00:43:39where the topic of abortion
00:43:41will be subject
00:43:43to vote, and it is very likely
00:43:45that there,
00:43:47let's say, the right to abortion
00:43:49is once again
00:43:51affirmed, and even more
00:43:53I think that the main line
00:43:55of Kamala Harris was
00:43:57to say that once she is
00:43:59in the presidency, she will
00:44:01be a law that allows
00:44:03abortion, that protects abortion and the
00:44:05reproductive right of the woman.
00:44:07So I think that
00:44:09in that sense, while
00:44:11Trump simply
00:44:13preached
00:44:15for his bases and
00:44:17within the mage bubble,
00:44:19he did not make any special
00:44:21exit to attract
00:44:23more the female vote.
00:44:25Kamala, however, made
00:44:27a great point
00:44:29to make that campaign promise
00:44:31that she had already made before,
00:44:33but that yesterday
00:44:35she made a national scale.
00:44:37And I think that
00:44:39that is going to be very important
00:44:41from now on.
00:44:43I ask you very quickly,
00:44:45so that you almost give me a headline,
00:44:47thinking about November 5, with what happened yesterday,
00:44:49with what has happened so far in the campaign,
00:44:51can it be said that the Latino vote
00:44:53will behave in a homogeneous way,
00:44:55that they are behind Kamala Harris or behind
00:44:57Donald Trump, or do we have to stop
00:44:59talking about a cohesive Latino vote
00:45:01behind one of the two candidates?
00:45:03Eileen.
00:45:05It has always seemed to me
00:45:07that this concept that all
00:45:09Latinos vote based on
00:45:11a single criterion,
00:45:13and that there is also
00:45:15a single criterion for being
00:45:17Latinos, is not completely correct.
00:45:19I think we have to think
00:45:21that the Latinos in the United States
00:45:23who will vote on November 5
00:45:25are going to the polls
00:45:27with the same concerns,
00:45:29with the same emotions,
00:45:31with the same perspectives
00:45:33or anxieties
00:45:35than all the other
00:45:37Americans.
00:45:39The economy,
00:45:41security, and yes,
00:45:43sometimes immigration, but the latest
00:45:45polls show that immigration
00:45:47has more or less a 10%
00:45:49in the rating of the issues
00:45:51that mainly concern all
00:45:53Latinos or non-Latinos.
00:45:55What is true is that
00:45:57the Latino electorate,
00:45:59in very general terms,
00:46:01has an alignment of
00:46:03what the United States calls core values,
00:46:05of these essential values
00:46:07that in many ways
00:46:09can be more aligned with
00:46:11conservatism than with liberalism,
00:46:13in the case of older people.
00:46:15However, I believe that
00:46:17an important key for this election
00:46:19is the young electorate,
00:46:21both Latino and non-Latino.
00:46:23Those who are going to vote for the first time,
00:46:25those who are deciding
00:46:27if they are going to vote or not,
00:46:29not only who they are going to vote for,
00:46:31but they are deciding if they are going to
00:46:33bet on politics or not, and in this sense
00:46:35the young Latinos
00:46:37can have an important role
00:46:39if someone convinces them
00:46:41that politics is still something
00:46:43that they as a generation can bet on.
00:46:45Do you think that mobilization has occurred,
00:46:47Boris, with the presence of Kamala Harris,
00:46:49has it incentivized the young voters
00:46:51who might think of not going to the polls
00:46:53on the next 5th of November?
00:46:55I think it has already
00:46:57encouraged the young voters,
00:46:59something that Biden didn't have,
00:47:01and that is going to be an important
00:47:03percentage difference
00:47:05at the end of the 5th of November.
00:47:07I don't know how the Latinos
00:47:09have behaved,
00:47:11because I haven't seen polls
00:47:13that talk about the mobilization
00:47:15of the Latino vote.
00:47:17Trump has made
00:47:19a very big effort
00:47:21to cement that conservative vote
00:47:23among the Latinos,
00:47:25that vote that Aileen
00:47:27wrote, and I think it's going to continue
00:47:29there. In fact, he had important gains
00:47:31in 2020 among the Latinos,
00:47:33he raised around 4 points
00:47:35in the Latino vote.
00:47:37Now, I don't think it's something
00:47:39unmovable, I think
00:47:41as Aileen said,
00:47:43that Latino vote
00:47:45also has very different profiles
00:47:47and the people
00:47:49are Latinos from the United States,
00:47:51they are voting in terms of their
00:47:53daily interests.
00:47:55But I do think that the migratory issue,
00:47:57let's say the demonization
00:47:59of immigrants,
00:48:01can force Trump's speech
00:48:03with the Latinos.
00:48:05And we saw that very clearly yesterday
00:48:07when he referred
00:48:09to Venezuelans a couple of times
00:48:11and also alluding to other
00:48:13immigrants, like those cat-eaters
00:48:15and dog-eaters,
00:48:17fictitious in the state
00:48:19of Ohio, also
00:48:21in Colorado and other places.
00:48:23I think that Latinos are going to
00:48:25respond to the idea of the future.
00:48:27If
00:48:29Kamala presents them
00:48:31a better future,
00:48:33as a group, and also
00:48:35political rights,
00:48:37which are very important,
00:48:39Kamala is going to achieve
00:48:41what I want to emphasize here
00:48:43is that I think that while
00:48:45Trump preached his
00:48:47mage bubble, which is a
00:48:49bubble that seeks to be
00:48:51racially homogeneous,
00:48:53Kamala has a very
00:48:55large field where to advance in
00:48:57multiracial voting, and that
00:48:59involves Latinos,
00:49:01because I think that in the end, his bet
00:49:03is to take the country
00:49:05forward in terms
00:49:07of a democracy
00:49:09racially and socially.
00:49:11Boris, Aileen, thank you both.
00:49:13We will continue to analyze what happens in the campaign
00:49:15with you in the coming weeks. Thank you for being
00:49:17in this program, this first program.
00:49:19Thank you for the invitation.
00:49:21Well, the debate ended after an hour and a half.
00:49:23The golden minutes that each of the
00:49:25candidates had were also very significant
00:49:27in how to use the time, that final
00:49:29message to the voters.
00:49:31That's what Kamala Harris did, and that's what
00:49:33Donald Trump did.
00:49:39...
00:49:41...
00:49:43...
00:49:45...
00:49:47...
00:49:49...
00:49:51...
00:49:53...
00:49:55...
00:49:57...
00:49:59...
00:50:01...
00:50:03...
00:50:05...
00:50:07...
00:50:09...
00:50:11...
00:50:13...
00:50:15...
00:50:17...
00:50:19...
00:50:21...
00:50:23...
00:50:25Well, it was precisely the final moment
00:50:27of the debate when the two candidates said
00:50:29goodbye without practically saying goodbye,
00:50:31although Kamala Harris did it at the beginning when
00:50:33Donald Trump gave her the hand.
00:50:35Alana Mozeri is an international relations
00:50:37professor at EA University.
00:50:39Alana, welcome to the program,
00:50:41this first program in which we will probably
00:50:43have you on more occasions. What analysis
00:50:45do you make of what happened last night?
00:50:47Well,
00:50:49above all, Kamala Harris
00:50:51has prepared a lot and
00:50:53her strategy
00:50:55has been to provoke Trump,
00:50:57which is not difficult at all because this is
00:50:59a man who has a lot of ego,
00:51:01and so it was a strategy
00:51:03with a lot of success.
00:51:05Trump, what I expected from
00:51:07Trump, his team wanted
00:51:09to see Trump more
00:51:11disciplined, who spoke of
00:51:13trying to
00:51:15connect Kamala Harris with
00:51:17Biden's policies,
00:51:19which is not difficult to do,
00:51:21she is his vice president, but
00:51:23it was not very successful because
00:51:25he was defending himself
00:51:27and also,
00:51:29I don't know, rolling
00:51:31in conspiracy theories
00:51:33and things that didn't make
00:51:35sense, like
00:51:37I don't know, like
00:51:39killing babies
00:51:41or eating cats
00:51:43and dogs, things that, the truth is
00:51:45that you have to laugh a little because
00:51:47I dreamed quite strange
00:51:49and then, in that sense,
00:51:51it has been a great
00:51:53victory for
00:51:55Kamala Harris, of course,
00:51:57at the moment. We will see in the weeks
00:51:59if that becomes
00:52:01a victory in the polls,
00:52:03and especially in the election,
00:52:05but for now it has been a spectacular
00:52:07night for her.
00:52:09Of course, we are talking about what effect this can have
00:52:11later in the elections,
00:52:13in the next weeks of the election campaign,
00:52:15but we have to take into account that
00:52:17the US elections are very special,
00:52:19in the end they will be played in very few territories,
00:52:21with very few undecided votes
00:52:23that can go to one
00:52:25voter or to another. What do you think
00:52:27from the point of view of the Trump campaign
00:52:29that they may be thinking, within their
00:52:31team, to try to turn
00:52:33the result of last night's debate around?
00:52:35Well,
00:52:37what
00:52:39both of them need to do
00:52:41at this moment is to capture these
00:52:43few undecided voters
00:52:45and, above all, the undecided voters in these
00:52:47key states.
00:52:49They are between
00:52:512 and 3,
00:52:534% of the population.
00:52:55We are talking about a very small group
00:52:57of people and this debate
00:52:59may have been
00:53:01one of the few moments
00:53:03for them to look
00:53:05and see these two candidates in action.
00:53:07Probably these people
00:53:09were not following
00:53:11the conventions,
00:53:13because the conventions are for
00:53:15the most loyal of the parties
00:53:17and the political freaks.
00:53:19But the people who are
00:53:21more undecided are people
00:53:23who do not follow politics
00:53:25many times.
00:53:27Most of them
00:53:29in the polls, one from
00:53:31Marquette University has said that
00:53:33they already know what they need to know about Trump.
00:53:35They know a lot about Trump.
00:53:37They do not know much about Kamala Harris
00:53:39and so this has been
00:53:41an opportunity
00:53:43that, after this debate, we know
00:53:45a little more about their policies
00:53:47than what these undecided people
00:53:49want to know.
00:53:51I also have to say
00:53:53that even in the next
00:53:55weeks it will be very difficult
00:53:57to believe these polls
00:53:59because there has been
00:54:01so much change
00:54:03until now in this campaign
00:54:05and a lot of change
00:54:07is always difficult for the polls.
00:54:09The polls are not usually
00:54:11so accurate
00:54:13when there is so much change,
00:54:15so much drama.
00:54:17We will see,
00:54:19but it will be very difficult
00:54:21until, I fear,
00:54:23until November because
00:54:25the truth is that there is a lot that can happen.
00:54:27We will see if there is another debate.
00:54:29I swear
00:54:31that Trump's team
00:54:33will want another debate
00:54:35but it may be that Trump says yes.
00:54:37In fact, he
00:54:39said after the debate that he has been
00:54:41the best in his life.
00:54:43There are many very strange things
00:54:45that can happen between now and November.
00:54:47Alana Moceri,
00:54:49Professor of International Studies at
00:54:51EA University, we will tell you
00:54:53in the next weeks. Thank you.
00:54:55You're welcome.
00:54:57Alana mentioned the moment
00:54:59when Trump said that it had been the best debate of his life.
00:55:01It was just when the debate was over
00:55:03that he approached the room where all the journalists were
00:55:05to tell that he had felt
00:55:07very comfortable and that it had been
00:55:09an excellent debate against a candidate
00:55:11who he said had done it badly.
00:55:17I really don't know.
00:55:19All I do is say the truth.
00:55:21I say the truth. If I lose votes or gain votes,
00:55:23I don't care, but this was my best
00:55:25debate. I thought it was very good.
00:55:27I thought she was very weak in foreign policy.
00:55:29She was very weak on the border
00:55:31and I'm very happy with it.
00:55:33Mr. President, why are you...
00:55:35In that press room
00:55:37was also our
00:55:39colleague Sara Canals, who is the correspondent
00:55:41in the United States of the CED
00:55:43and Miguel Jiménez, who is the correspondent
00:55:45of the country in Washington
00:55:47and who is also today in Philadelphia.
00:55:49What feeling did you have
00:55:51when the debate ended in that spin room
00:55:53where the advisers
00:55:55meet with the journalists, the correspondents?
00:55:57Miguel.
00:56:01I think it's muted, Miguel.
00:56:05I think
00:56:07they said one thing with the words
00:56:09and another with the non-verbal language.
00:56:11I get the feeling that
00:56:13Republican politicians, and in particular
00:56:15Trump,
00:56:17were aware that they had
00:56:19lost the debate.
00:56:21I was in Atlanta,
00:56:23Sara too. Trump didn't
00:56:25appear in the spin room,
00:56:27in the press area, after
00:56:29the debate ended, which
00:56:31he had won. Yesterday he came
00:56:33to protest for the referees,
00:56:35to say that the moderators had been unfair
00:56:37and to try to re-arbitrate
00:56:39the party and say that
00:56:41he had won, that he had
00:56:43done very well, that it had been the best debate
00:56:45of his life.
00:56:47It sounded unconvincing.
00:56:49I was two meters away and it didn't sound very convincing.
00:56:51One of the doubts, Sara,
00:56:53is what happens from now on, if there will be a second
00:56:55debate. Is there that possibility?
00:56:57Is it serious, Trump,
00:56:59when he says, well, we're going to look at it,
00:57:01why not? The one who doesn't want it is going to be her.
00:57:03Do you think it's possible?
00:57:05I think you're also muted, Sara.
00:57:07Now, can you hear me?
00:57:09This is because you've been working all night,
00:57:11you haven't slept at all, and of course,
00:57:13these things have to happen to us.
00:57:15We're asking you for a 24-hour effort,
00:57:17Sara. Can you hear me now?
00:57:19Yes, yes, perfectly.
00:57:21We're commenting on the possibility
00:57:23of a third debate, yes.
00:57:25Let's see, there is,
00:57:27we also know Donald Trump,
00:57:29he's not one of those who hides and
00:57:31sometimes he does.
00:57:33Probably after yesterday's defeat,
00:57:35he's looking for that rematch.
00:57:37Another thing is what his advisers
00:57:39recommend to him from now on,
00:57:41we'll see what happens.
00:57:43But he has said it on several occasions,
00:57:45that he is willing to debate, and he has also
00:57:47proposed to do it on Fox News,
00:57:49which is the ultra-conservative network,
00:57:51a more refined field, Donald Trump,
00:57:53and you also have to take it into account.
00:57:55He has been, for now,
00:57:57on two rather liberal televisions,
00:57:59CNN and ABC News,
00:58:01which are hostile televisions.
00:58:03So this possibility exists,
00:58:05and I insist on the rematch component
00:58:07very typical of Donald Trump.
00:58:09What we do have assured is the appointment
00:58:11on October 1, I think it is, Miguel,
00:58:13with the debate in the candidates
00:58:15to the vice-presidency of the government,
00:58:17which in this case is also quite appetizing
00:58:19to see the confrontation
00:58:21between the Democrat and the Republican, right?
00:58:23Yes, I think it's going to be
00:58:25a very interesting debate too.
00:58:27It's true that, just as Tim Walz
00:58:29has infused energy into
00:58:31Kamala Harris's campaign,
00:58:33and she complements it very well,
00:58:35in the case of Jadie Vance, I think
00:58:37it has been an election of a moment
00:58:39in which Trump was seen with enormous confidence,
00:58:41and the truth is that it's not working.
00:58:43It's getting in the way.
00:58:45Some compare it
00:58:47with Sarah Palin, who was
00:58:49perhaps the worst
00:58:51candidate for vice-president
00:58:53recently, and
00:58:55it's going to be a very interesting debate.
00:58:57Finally, Sarah, I don't know if you had time
00:58:59this morning to look at the headlines
00:59:01of the press in reaction to what happened
00:59:03last night, beyond what was
00:59:05the hot moment
00:59:07after the debate. What reflection
00:59:09are you making this morning in the United States
00:59:11of what happened last night in the US press?
00:59:13Well, above all,
00:59:15everyone agrees on that new
00:59:17facet of Kamala Harris,
00:59:19which is comparable
00:59:21to the new Kamala Harris we saw
00:59:23after Biden took a step aside.
00:59:25That facet that the Americans
00:59:27hadn't seen, that facet of being presidential.
00:59:29But then also, what I've been able
00:59:31to review is that, well, after that debate
00:59:33Kamala Harris went to one of the
00:59:35parties organized by her party, she took a
00:59:37mass bath, we see it now
00:59:39in the images, and she insists that
00:59:41we have to keep fighting. The feeling is
00:59:43a bit, well, within the
00:59:45democratic field, that there has been
00:59:47an injection of euphoria.
00:59:49In fact, we saw her even more
00:59:51confident than in that CNN interview,
00:59:53in her speech of acceptance,
00:59:55which was very correct, but well,
00:59:57we saw her more
00:59:59confident, so to speak.
01:00:01But she insists that not everything is won,
01:00:03that we have to keep fighting.
01:00:05She sees herself as the undervalued
01:00:07of this race, and in fact today
01:00:09she continues her campaign, she goes to another
01:00:11sacred space, which is Carolina del Norte.
01:00:13She is aware that not everything is won and that
01:00:15we have to convince the people.
01:00:17Sara Canal, Miguel Jiménez,
01:00:19thank you both for being live on the show.
01:00:21Thank you very much.
01:00:23Well, and before saying goodbye, two images, just when
01:00:25the debate was ending, Taylor Swift
01:00:27in an Instagram post
01:00:29gave her support
01:00:31to Kamala Harris as a candidate
01:00:33with this text. Recently I learned
01:00:35that artificial intelligence had created
01:00:37a me that falsely supported the candidate
01:00:39for the presidential candidacy of Donald Trump
01:00:41on his website. I come to the conclusion
01:00:43that I have to be very transparent about my
01:00:45real plans for these elections as
01:00:47a voter. And that image, with that
01:00:49vote, in relation to that comment that
01:00:51Jadie Vance made a few weeks ago
01:00:53saying that the women who lived
01:00:55single with cats, well, basically
01:00:57they were the democratic voters.
01:00:59I vote for Kamala Harris because she fights for the rights
01:01:01and the causes that I think need
01:01:03a warrior to defend them.
01:01:05It was Taylor Swift supporting
01:01:07Kamala Harris. She is one of the figures
01:01:09in which the democrats have
01:01:11also put more hope as
01:01:13support to attract
01:01:15the young vote. And finally,
01:01:17Kamala Harris, after the debate,
01:01:19attended that party or that
01:01:21continuation of the night
01:01:23with his supporters, where
01:01:25he also introduced who may
01:01:27be the first
01:01:29gentleman of the
01:01:31White House. This is the
01:01:33moment in which, after the debate,
01:01:35well, he approached and
01:01:37this is Kamala Harris's husband
01:01:39in that act
01:01:41after the debate.
01:01:43Let's see if we can hear.
01:01:47Well, there it is.
01:01:49Kamala Harris's husband
01:01:51introducing the next
01:01:53US president.
01:01:55This is how we end this analysis program.
01:01:57We will return soon in this special
01:01:59program that we started today, but
01:02:01we will continue in the next weeks
01:02:03about the campaign in the US.
01:02:05Thank you to those who have followed us
01:02:07on the country's television channel,
01:02:09on Cadena Ser, on HuffPost and of course
01:02:11on Twitter.
01:02:13See you next week.
01:02:15See you next week.
01:02:17See you next week.