Off The Record | Kashif Abbasi | ARY News | 28th August 2024
#traders #strike #pmshehbazsharif #pmlngovt #fawadchaudhry #islamabadhighcourt #imrankhan
۔Trader Strike Against Taxes - President Central Organized Traders's Reaction
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۔Trader Strike Against Taxes - President Central Organized Traders's Reaction
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NewsTranscript
00:00Asalam-o-Alaikum, viewers, you are watching the program with Kashif Abbasi.
00:03Today, there was a nationwide strike by the traders.
00:06The traders protested because according to them,
00:09everything is happening under the Tajir-Dost scheme,
00:12and the traders across the country protested against the taxes.
00:18The PTI supported the strike on behalf of the NPA.
00:22The problem in Pakistan is that the traders have not been ready to pay taxes for a long time.
00:27What happens?
00:28I remember the time of Mr. Parvez Musharraf.
00:30At that time, for the first time in my memory,
00:32there was an attempt to impose taxes on the Tajirs.
00:34I mean, the figures were given that the entire Lahore Liberty Market
00:38might have paid 3-4 lakh rupees in taxes.
00:40Liberty Market was the largest market of Lahore at that time.
00:42In Islamabad, Janasobar Market also pays 4-5 lakh rupees in taxes.
00:45In total.
00:46And it was said that if the Tajirs do not pay taxes,
00:48then how will the taxes be collected in Pakistan?
00:50And at that time, our tax collection was also very low.
00:52What happened after that?
00:53After 2008, the People's Party came to power,
00:56the Muslim League came to power.
00:58Whenever governments try to impose taxes,
01:01whoever comes to power feels that they have to impose taxes on the Tajirs.
01:04Because this is such a big community.
01:06But the opposition always stands with the Tajirs.
01:09As I said, the current opposition has announced its support for the Tajirs.
01:13I was also watching the statements of Mr. Tariq Khan.
01:16I mentioned the NPA.
01:17The Jamaat-e-Islam is also with them.
01:19Before that, let me show you some news.
01:23In 2015, when the Muslim League imposed taxes,
01:31the Pakistan People's Party also supported this call.
01:34Not just the People's Party, but Tariq-e-Ansaaf also supported it at that time.
01:38And Imran Khan himself went to their protest.
01:41Now, when Mifta Ismail was the Finance Minister,
01:46he was taxed.
01:49If I can show it on full screen.
01:51Mr. Mifta was taxed on the electricity bill.
01:54The Tajir brother is upset and complaining.
01:57Mr. Mifta received this order from Mrs. Maryam Nawaz Sharif.
02:00Then we saw these footages.
02:03Mr. Mifta was joking with these Tajirs.
02:06And the matter was resolved.
02:07He was taxed again.
02:08Governments do not tax such a big section of society because they are voters.
02:15It will be difficult for them to vote.
02:18This is a big problem that we have seen.
02:22But why should they not be taxed?
02:24We are people with a salary.
02:26If we are taxed, we are paying around 49% of our salary.
02:33Let's start with Mr. Kashif Chaudhary.
02:36He is the President of the Central Tanjim-e-Tajran.
02:39I would like to ask Mr. Mifta what he was told at that time.
02:44Mr. Chaudhary, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
02:50Mr. Chaudhary, why don't you want to be taxed?
02:54There is no denial in taxing.
02:58We say that every person who earns should be taxed according to their income.
03:05The drama of filers and non-filers should end.
03:11But we also say that the tax system should be fair.
03:15The system of tax should be fair.
03:18The system of tax should be easy.
03:20First of all, there should be an intention to pay tax.
03:22Which you don't have.
03:23I am reminding you from the time of Parvez Musharraf.
03:26I remember the first time you shut down when Parvez Musharraf tried to tax you.
03:31That government tried to tax you.
03:33We were told that the liberty market pays a total of 300,000-400,000 tax.
03:37Jinnah Super pays a total of 300,000-400,000 tax.
03:39But you don't want to pay tax.
03:43No, no, no.
03:44Look, this is not the case.
03:45The traders are paying a total of 44 types of taxes.
03:4944 types of taxes.
03:51From municipal corporation, board tax, trade license fees, excise duties, to Wafaaq.
03:59They are paying 44 types of taxes.
04:01And they are not paying the same tax.
04:04In the sale tax and withholding tax, there is a collection agent.
04:07Who collects money from the public and gives it to the rulers.
04:11The problem is that this is only about income tax.
04:14Otherwise, in the electricity bill, the trader pays 13 types of taxes.
04:19He pays taxes on the gas bill.
04:21In the same way, he pays other taxes.
04:23And the schemes that are brought in,
04:25Basically, the tax thieves in this country,
04:29They are brought in to give protection.
04:31Sir, how many traders do you have in Pakistan?
04:34Sir, one second, let's talk about the number.
04:36Tell me, how many traders do you have in Pakistan?
04:40Look, the number of traders is 36 lakhs.
04:47No, no, 36 lakhs is not the total number of traders.
04:50You have more than that.
04:51You are telling me about connections.
04:53There are 1 crore traders in the country.
04:55There are 1 crore traders.
04:58What is the total number of traders in Pakistan who do not pay taxes but file taxes?
05:08Earlier it was 17 lakhs, now it has increased to 24 lakhs.
05:11You are saying that those 24 lakhs,
05:13In which the majority of the people have a salary,
05:15Whose tax is done at the source,
05:17There are more than 1 crore traders.
05:19You are a taxpayer if you want to pay taxes.
05:23Yes, I have been a taxpayer for more than a year.
05:25But the problem is that the tax return of easy and simple Urdu has not been issued by the FBR so far.
05:32We ourselves demand that the electricity meter holder be given an NTN number,
05:37And a chance to file a return from it through a simple and easy form.
05:43But the FBR does not do that.
05:45It opens new ways of corruption.
05:47And what was done in this trade friendly scheme?
05:50That this is a trade hostile scheme.
05:53That the same kind of slabs were made in different areas.
05:56And it was said that 60,000 rupees will be paid monthly tax.
06:00In such an environment, when people are not able to pay electricity bills,
06:03When there are 13 types of taxes on electricity bills,
06:06When other taxes are not being paid,
06:08When business is not running,
06:10Then 60,000 rupees should be allocated monthly,
06:13Whether the business is small or big,
06:15Whether there is income or not.
06:17Monthly tax was imposed.
06:19And similar other slabs were made.
06:21Income tax is given after the year.
06:24It is given on income.
06:26After the calculation of business income and expenses,
06:29It is given on pure profit.
06:31I don't know why the government doesn't want to come towards that.
06:34And where is IMF made?
06:37IMF has also put some conditions.
06:39I would like to ask Mr. Mifta about the larger policy parameters.
06:42Mr. Mifta, there is a strike all over Pakistan right now.
06:45Political parties are supporting that strike.
06:47But why have you not been able to impose taxes on the merchants for so many years?
06:52You also tried.
06:54I told you, we also saw Mr. Mariam Nawaz's tweet a while ago.
06:57Mr. Mifta, please take back the tax on electricity bills.
07:01And you took it back later proudly.
07:04But governments also get blackmailed again and again.
07:07What do you think?
07:09Should this tax be imposed unjustly on them?
07:12Or is there a problem in giving tax to the merchants?
07:15Mr. Kashyap, thank you very much.
07:17Look, there is a problem in giving tax.
07:19You should be clear about this.
07:21When I imposed the tax, I imposed it on a shop for Rs. 3000.
07:24It was a mistake to impose it on Rs. 6000.
07:26But we imposed it on Rs. 3000.
07:28It was just an error of the FDR.
07:30Rs. 3000 in the shop, at that time,
07:32could have been made for Rs. 100.
07:34The shopkeeper could have given it for Rs. 100.
07:36The shopkeeper could have given it for Rs. 100.
07:38The shopkeeper could have given it for Rs. 100.
07:40The shopkeeper could have given it for Rs. 100.
07:42All the shopkeepers are my brothers.
07:44But I am saying that there is a bad intention.
07:46The reason for this is that once they go online,
07:48they become uncertain.
07:50The FDR will come and take the money.
07:52These poor people are afraid of the police.
07:54They come and take things from them.
07:56They are afraid of other agencies.
07:58They don't want to hug another agency.
08:00This is the first problem.
08:02The second problem this time is that
08:04the tax has been imposed a little too much.
08:06The tax has been imposed a little too much.
08:08The tax has been imposed a little too much.
08:10The tax has been imposed a little too much.
08:12In Karachi, there is a road called Muhammad Ali Jinnah Road.
08:14The road is 2-3 miles long.
08:16The tax has been imposed a little too much.
08:18The tax has been imposed a little too much.
08:20Some people are selling expensive watches
08:22which can be easily given.
08:24Some people are selling expensive watches
08:26which can be easily given.
08:28Some people have a tea shop.
08:30Some people have a tea shop.
08:32Some people have a tea shop.
08:34Some people have a tea shop.
08:36Some people have a tea shop.
08:38In Karachi, there is 30,000.
08:40The eligibility is according to the area.
08:42In Karachi, the tax has been imposed a little too much.
08:46What is the problem of politicians
08:48Before I go into your specifics,
08:50What is the problem of politicians
08:52Have your opponents,
08:54just because the vote bank is prevalent,
08:56have they overly compromised?
08:58What happens when you take on tax?
09:00What happens when you take on tax?
09:02I used to be a Baltic colleague.
09:04As for politics in Muslim League.
09:06Mr. Shahbaz did not want to give that room to Mr. Shahbaz to pay the tax.
09:10Mr. Shahbaz was scared of Mr. Bade Mian.
09:12He was getting calls. This was the problem.
09:14You can still see a negative role of the politicians.
09:17That Jamaat-e-Islami, our brothers, Mr. Hafiz,
09:19they are all protesting.
09:21I had traders with me.
09:23I am not in Pakistan right now.
09:25When I was in Pakistan, I had traders with me.
09:27I listened to all their talks and I called the FBI at the same time.
09:29And I said, meet them.
09:31Because we all have to pay the tax.
09:33This country is mine.
09:35This government does not have a mandate.
09:37It is not a legitimate government.
09:39And it is not competent either.
09:41So they are so scared that everyone is attacking it.
09:43Jamaat-e-Islami has also attacked.
09:45We are also protesting.
09:47And the JUI is also protesting.
09:49This is the country of the politicians.
09:51It is our country.
09:53So we should try to sit with the traders and the government
09:55and get a decision made.
09:57Sir, my understanding of the government is that
09:59Mr. Miftaat will not back down.
10:01Wait a minute. I want to talk to you about politics.
10:03I want to talk to Mr. Chaudhary.
10:05I want to ask him a few questions.
10:07Mr. Chaudhary, the government says it will not back down.
10:09Now what is your next move?
10:11You say, I am paying a lot of tax.
10:13I don't want to pay.
10:15What if they don't agree?
10:17Then what?
10:19Look, the government will have to sit at the negotiating table.
10:21We will have to take this matter seriously.
10:23Because we want to save this trade.
10:25If trade continues, there will be employment in the country.
10:27If trade continues, there will be tax.
10:29If trade ceases, there will be insecurity.
10:31That is why the government should sit seriously.
10:33And if the government does not sit,
10:35then we are waiting.
10:37And then we can invite all the traders
10:39from all over the country to come to Islamabad
10:41with national consultation.
10:43And in the same way,
10:45for an indefinite period of time,
10:47we can also close the Pakistan shutter.
10:49Because trade and industry are not going well.
10:51Expenses are not being paid.
10:53Sir, from your side, Mr. Chaudhary,
10:55can this guarantee be given to the government
10:57that giving tax is not an issue,
10:59but it should be improved?
11:01Like Mr. Mirza said,
11:03he shuttered at Rs 3,000.
11:05Can there be a better scheme
11:07or an arrangement
11:09in which the traders also agree?
11:11You are saying that there is such a way.
11:15Yes, there is absolutely a way.
11:17There is no difference in giving tax.
11:19I said earlier that every person
11:21should pay tax.
11:23The difference is in his style.
11:25The government should sit on it
11:27and make it easy and simple.
11:29The whole nation is giving tax.
11:31The traders are also giving tax
11:33and are ready to pay it.
11:35Absolutely right.
11:37You are saying that they are giving tax.
11:39But the news I told you in 2015
11:41in which you protested
11:43because tax was imposed in 2017-18
11:45and then when Mr. Miftah
11:47became the Minister of Treasury twice,
11:49he tried to impose it.
11:51You protested again.
11:53Sir, it is not possible
11:55that every government
11:57has imposed the wrong tax.
11:59Kashib, the demand is
12:01how much tax should be given.
12:03They are giving 44 types of tax.
12:05They are tired of giving tax.
12:07Do you think
12:09how much tax should be given?
12:11They are giving.
12:13The problem is that
12:15they are giving for their enjoyment
12:17but they are giving.
12:19At least start something.
12:21At least streamline the tax system.
12:23They are giving 5 lakhs or 8 lakhs tax
12:25in the whole country.
12:27This is also unfair.
12:31Kashib, you talked about the employees.
12:33Employees are also very few
12:35in the government sector.
12:37They are also employees of the private sector,
12:39businessmen and contractors.
12:41That tax is also
12:43paid by the businessmen.
12:45But the matter is
12:47that the government
12:49has to create an atmosphere of trust.
12:51The government has to like
12:53the reality of tax.
12:55The government has to reduce
12:57its expenses.
12:59It is not possible that
13:01we don't want to give tax.
13:03Thank you very much.
13:05We will continue to talk
13:07with you.
13:09The government thinks
13:11that the protests
13:13are not going to end today.
13:15I was told that
13:17the protests will continue
13:19What is the issue of legitimacy
13:21in taxing?
13:23It is not a legitimate government.
13:29Because they don't have a mandate
13:31and they are afraid of everything.
13:35They are not making bold decisions
13:37about reforms.
13:39When Pakistan does not have time,
13:41it is going on like this.
13:43You are making me a sinner.
13:45You also know that it is a mandate-less government.
13:47They didn't even have 20 seats.
13:49I don't know what your calculation is.
13:51I keep them below 20.
13:53I don't even do this calculation.
13:55I am telling you that
13:57there are so many numbers in the calculator.
14:03Let me make a request
14:05to the shopkeepers.
14:09One shopkeeper is afraid
14:11that if we go to tax today,
14:13what will happen in the future?
14:15They need assurance.
14:17I think that is fair.
14:19Let them go.
14:21Whatever happened in the past,
14:23will happen in the future.
14:27Another shopkeeper is afraid
14:29that Amla will not come to him.
14:31I am giving a suggestion to the government
14:33that whatever tax you have imposed,
14:3560,000, 45,000, 48,000,
14:37it should be a full and final
14:39monthly tax.
14:41Mr. Mirza, tell him one thing.
14:43You have been the finance minister
14:45twice.
14:47Let me tell you a story.
14:49There was a function in Lahore.
14:51It was a very big house.
14:53There was a lot of money in that house.
14:55We found out that there was a doctor.
14:57He earned a lot of money.
14:59There was a guest there
15:01who had a link with the FBI.
15:03The FBI inspector came.
15:05He was sent a tax of crores.
15:07The inspector
15:09and the tax officer
15:11gave some money to the shopkeeper.
15:13He paid a little tax.
15:15You know that this is a problem in the government.
15:17You will have to fix this.
15:19Otherwise, when you impose tax,
15:21they will come after us.
15:23Do you know what will happen?
15:25That is why the shopkeeper is afraid.
15:27See, I said that my tax was full and final.
15:29Amend this tax scheme a little.
15:31Reduce the rate a little.
15:33Promise not to go back a little.
15:35Make it full and final.
15:37If it does these three things,
15:39I think people will come.
15:41At this time, the country needs
15:43that there is no problem.
15:45Sir, in tax theft,
15:47what can be done to stop the government
15:49and the FBI?
15:51Sir,
15:53my FBI reform is that
15:55the FBI should take the audit function
15:57and make another agency
15:59that does the audit.
16:01Not only the audit of the taxpayer,
16:03but also the audit of the officer
16:05who provided the return.
16:07Make it digital.
16:09Take them on fixed tax.
16:11Wherever you do fixed tax,
16:13the story of bribery will end.
16:15You said that this shopkeeper
16:17has to give 40,000 rupees,
16:19this shopkeeper has to give 10,000 rupees.
16:21It's over.
16:23We don't want anything else from you.
16:25But they have not done this.
16:27They said that you give at least 10,000
16:29and we can go back.
16:31If you give two assurances
16:33that we will not go back,
16:35but I also want to say
16:37that politicians should also
16:39play a positive role.
16:41The government is weak.
16:43Government is not competent.
16:45Government is not legitimate.
16:47We understand this.
16:49But people like Jamaat-e-Islami
16:51and all these people,
16:53I know that they took
16:55mayorship from poor people.
16:57There are people who took seats
16:59from them.
17:01Governments were formed
17:03so that instead of standing
17:05with traitors blindfolded,
17:07the opposition supports a system
17:09where everyone pays tax,
17:11but a better system.
17:13Yes.
17:15When there is a dictator,
17:17he does not say that I am popular.
17:19He says that I am powerful.
17:21That is why my government will run.
17:23When there is a political government,
17:25it says that we are popular.
17:27This government cannot say
17:29that we are popular.
17:31So it is difficult
17:33to govern the government.
17:35Sir, this is the wonder
17:37that they have come
17:39in such a way that they
17:41themselves do not understand
17:43how we have come here.
17:45This is the same thing.
17:47You will fight the next election
17:49and you will become
17:51the Prime Minister of Pakistan.
17:53You also know how worried
17:55the PMLN ministers are at this time
17:57and they are also worried
17:59that they have been favoured.
18:01Why is this?
18:03Of course, you know that.
18:05Who will lie to us?
18:07To take the country forward,
18:09some fundamental reforms
18:11are needed.
18:13Mr. Shahbaz has completely
18:15missed this last year.
18:17He has not talked about
18:19the NRC reform or
18:21the budget reform.
18:23The IMF agreement has been
18:25delayed till September.
18:27You need money from outside
18:29because you do not have
18:31credibility outside.
18:33Mr. Shahbaz Sharif has
18:35missed the China trip to Japan.
18:37He kept talking about trains
18:39when he had to deal
18:41with electricity.
18:43You have made electricity expensive.
18:45The economy is not running.
18:47Nothing is really going right
18:49for the government.
18:51You know that Pakistan's
18:53working of Pakistan is
18:55not going well.
18:57What is happening in Pakistan?
18:59What will happen tomorrow?
19:01There are traders here.
19:03There will be traders tomorrow
19:05and there will be strikes.
19:07It is very difficult for the
19:09government.
19:11Before I go on a break,
19:13Patan is auditing
19:15four more circles.
19:17Mr. Bali is here.
19:19Let us ask him about the audit.
19:21He audited Karachi 242
19:23and Mustafa Kamal.
19:25He told us about the
19:27fraud.
19:29He told us about the
19:31strikes in Lahore 127.
19:33He told us about the
19:35polling station data in
19:37N265 Pashin.
19:39He told us about N28 Peshawar.
19:41Mr. Bali, you caught
19:43four circles.
19:45Yes?
19:47You caught four circles.
19:49The problem is that
19:51this is what is happening.
19:53What is it?
19:55Is it the same everywhere?
19:57Four things are common
19:59in Patan.
20:01The first thing is that
20:03the
20:05National Assembly
20:07usually has
20:09two or two and a half
20:11National Assemblies.
20:13But the two
20:15National Assemblies are
20:17completely below.
20:19Whether it is
20:21N230 or
20:23N128.
20:25Was it 127?
20:27It was 127.
20:29Sir, you are saying that
20:31the pencils were taken to
20:33make the circles to suit us.
20:35The guiding principles of
20:37delimitation and the
20:39Elections Act section 20
20:41have all been bulldozed.
20:43Secondly,
20:45they have
20:47given fake votes.
20:49They have put bogus votes.
20:51We have shared the data
20:53with the people.
20:55The second pattern is this.
20:57The third pattern is that
20:59the polling stations where the turnout
21:01is 70, 80 or
21:0390 percent,
21:05only one party wins.
21:07And that is the ruling party.
21:09Why do they do this?
21:11It is so difficult to
21:13turn out 90 percent and win.
21:15Give them some credit
21:17for their hard work.
21:19We are giving them credit.
21:21We are giving them credit every week.
21:23And the third thing is
21:25that if you
21:27estimate the winning party,
21:29the fake votes
21:31that we see,
21:33the extraordinary,
21:35exceptionally high turnout
21:37that we see in the polling stations,
21:39the people who win there,
21:41I have just told you,
21:43we have not found
21:45a single polling station
21:47where a candidate
21:49who is a PTI candidate
21:51has won.
21:53So, all these...
21:55Has he won or has he lost his votes?
21:57He has not even lost his votes.
21:59He has not lost his votes.
22:01He must have won, but he has not lost his votes.
22:03But Pashin's circle,
22:05who is from Kashmir...
22:07Yes, Pashin Maulana Fazur Rahman's circle.
22:09His circle is the most interesting
22:11because
22:13there are 312 polling stations
22:15and out of 312,
22:17110 polling stations
22:19have data
22:21on the website of the Election Commission
22:23that says Farm 45.
22:25110 polling stations have data
22:27on that.
22:29110 polling stations
22:31have no data on Farm 45
22:33or Farm 46.
22:35So, the question arises
22:37how was Farm 47 prepared?
22:39Sir, if you call me personally
22:41at this time,
22:43I will explain everything to you
22:45about how Farm 47 was prepared.
22:47You must have heard
22:49that this also happens.
22:51Thank you very much, sir.
22:53I have to take a break.
22:55Welcome back, Naseem.
22:57Mr. Fawad Chaudhary is with us.
22:59Mr. Fawad, we were talking about
23:01the traders earlier.
23:03They give a report
23:05about the election results.
23:07There are legitimacy issues
23:09of the government.
23:11The biggest issue
23:13is that a defeated party
23:15has been given power.
23:17Mifta was also saying
23:19that this is a big issue.
23:21Are all the issues
23:23starting from here?
23:25What is the purpose
23:27of having elections?
23:29What is the purpose
23:31of having assemblies?
23:33What is the purpose
23:35of the majority of the people?
23:37When you make fake assemblies
23:39and the MNAs
23:41come there in fake forms,
23:43the Balochistan Assembly
23:45is facing a big crisis.
23:47Is anyone even considering
23:49the debate of the Balochistan Assembly
23:51as to who they are,
23:53what happened there?
23:55No one takes it seriously.
23:57The debates of the National Assembly,
23:59does anyone even look at them?
24:01Where does everyone look?
24:03Because of this vacuum,
24:05what was announced at the
24:07Core Commander Conference?
24:09What did the ISP say?
24:11What did the Army Chief say?
24:13So the biggest problem
24:15right now Pakistan is facing is
24:17that the biggest issue
24:19of Pakistan is
24:21what Mohammad Khan Jannejo
24:23said in 1986,
24:25that the biggest reality
24:27of Pakistan is that
24:29martial law and democracy
24:31You will have to come out
24:33of this dilemma.
24:35You have said that martial law
24:37has taken place.
24:39We are fighting for democracy.
24:41Until this primary problem
24:43is not solved,
24:45you will not be able to solve
24:47any problem.
24:49So this is why you are
24:51saying that the traders
24:53should be arrested.
24:55I remember that
24:57we were briefed
24:59that no one gives taxis.
25:01Mifta had put it in the electricity bill.
25:03Mifta Bhai, please look into it.
25:05So the issue is that
25:07the court should increase the judge
25:09and give extensions.
25:11This is because of the legitimacy crisis.
25:13Now look at the next
25:15two big issues.
25:17In the next 15, 20 or 25 days,
25:19the two biggest issues
25:21will come. One issue is
25:23the IMF program.
25:25You have to take $1.2 billion
25:27and $5 billion rollover
25:29from China.
25:31I think this will happen.
25:33But the problem is that
25:35the IMF program will also come.
25:37How will the government
25:39which does not have political capital
25:41implement the conditions?
25:43As you have seen today,
25:45you have segmented it
25:47and you have also told
25:49how difficult it is for the government.
25:51The second issue is
25:53that the game is being played with the judiciary.
25:55Let me ask a specific question.
25:57You said that this decision
25:59was made without thinking.
26:01Why do you think
26:03that this decision was made
26:05without thinking?
26:07The first thing is that
26:09the biggest advantage of this government
26:11is that they have never
26:13looked at the details.
26:15They have seen superficially
26:17that ban the PTI,
26:19do a military trial,
26:21bring him to the police station,
26:23bring him to the court.
26:25If you bring him to the court,
26:27what effect will it have on
26:29Mansoor Ali Shah's health?
26:31Either the Chief Justice
26:33will make a bench
26:35or the Judges Committee
26:37will make a bench.
26:39Muneeb Akhtar or Afridi
26:41will make a bench with Mansoor Ali Shah.
26:43Your problem is that
26:45you want a bench of your choice.
26:47These three people will give you
26:49a bench of your choice.
26:51Mansoor Ali Shah,
26:53Muneeb Akhtar
26:55or Afridi
26:57are the Chief Justices.
26:59You are sitting with
27:01four Chief Justices
27:03who want a bench of their choice.
27:05They don't want to make a bench.
27:07To be fair with you,
27:09will this crisis deepen with judiciary?
27:11I think
27:13it is deepening forcefully.
27:15There is no doubt
27:17why it is deepening.
27:19Are they being forced
27:21to go back foot?
27:23What will be the benefit?
27:25There is no benefit.
27:27You have done a lot
27:29with the judges
27:31of Islamabad High Court.
27:33You kidnapped their relatives.
27:35You threatened them.
27:37You threatened two judges
27:39of the Supreme Court.
27:41They didn't go back foot.
27:43There is a limit
27:45to going back foot.
27:47Even a cat will jump.
27:49You are putting people on the wall.
27:51Let me add one more thing.
27:55This is not limited to
27:57the Supreme Court.
27:59All the judges of the High Court
28:01understand that
28:03it is important for them to stand
28:05to save judiciary.
28:07Lahore High Court,
28:09Peshawar High Court,
28:11Islamabad High Court,
28:13Sindh High Court,
28:15the High Court
28:17of Islamabad is
28:23based on the judiciary.
28:25It is a place
28:27where the media
28:29sits down and
28:31the bar councils
28:33sit down and
28:35the civil society
28:37sits down.
28:39Do not sit in front of us
28:41and talk.
28:43that we have not suffered at all.
28:45The thing is, here there are exceptions,
28:48there are general.
28:49There are exceptions that have been found there.
28:51And they have accepted it.
28:53There is a general rule.
28:54You are saying that the media has sat under the general rule
28:56and the court has stood.
28:57The court has stood.
28:58This is a big difference.
28:59And for the first time, the court has stood after a long time.
29:01It has stood after a long time.
29:02But in all these scenarios,
29:04where you are saying that there is weakness,
29:05the government is weak,
29:06it is built on a wall,
29:08there is nothing ahead,
29:10there is a legitimacy crisis,
29:11there is a credibility crisis.
29:12There is no political capital.
29:13There is no political capital.
29:14There is no stick.
29:15The most potent opposition you have is that of Imran Khan.
29:18He announces the Jalsa.
29:19He gets a phone call.
29:20He announces the Jalsa.
29:21Why is he doing this?
29:23The last Jalsa was a little different.
29:26In that, I think,
29:28they gave a little room.
29:30Actually, Imran Khan has been trying for the past 3-4 weeks
29:34that the temperature is low.
29:36The last time,
29:38the day before yesterday,
29:39the temperature rose again.
29:40But that is my personal opinion.
29:42I can be wrong.
29:43But my opinion is that
29:44it rose because of a misunderstanding.
29:47Because,
29:48what happened was that
29:49when they met in the jail at 7 or 7.30,
29:53the Punjab government was very upset.
29:55At the establishment,
29:56at Mohsin Naqvi,
29:57they did not even take his call.
29:59And after that,
30:00the Punjab government actually increased the strictness in the jail.
30:03From the establishment,
30:05according to my opinion,
30:06that…
30:07Is it an opinion or a news?
30:10Understand both.
30:12This whole thing happened on the initiative of the Punjab government.
30:17And the Punjab government,
30:19now that all this has happened,
30:20they are very upset about it.
30:21How did they reach at 7.30?
30:23And how did the gate open?
30:25So, the temperature needs to come down a little.
30:28See, Pakistan…
30:30See, there are only two ways.
30:31So, you are saying that Imran Khan wants to bring the temperature down.
30:33He wants to bring it down.
30:34Now, the women opposition wants to increase the temperature.
30:36The more pressure there is,
30:37the more their demands will be accepted.
30:39If Imran Khan had not been in jail,
30:40then it would have been understood that he is outside and he is not in a hurry.
30:43He should be in a hurry that he is in jail and has to come out.
30:45And the government has to be overthrown
30:46because this is an unacceptable government
30:48or an unelected government.
30:50Why will they decide that I will bring the temperature down?
30:53See, Imran Khan wants elections.
30:54Because he found out that I have to come out,
30:56so I have to deal with someone or the other,
30:58so I have to come out.
30:59No, no.
31:00And see, there are only two ways.
31:01Either there is a movement like Bangladesh.
31:03Either the temperature will increase so much…
31:05It will increase so much that it will increase.
31:06See, that is not in the interest of anyone in Pakistan.
31:08It is not in the interest of PTI either.
31:10The reason for this is that when such a temperature rises,
31:13then no one knows what will happen.
31:15Then the matter is out of your hands.
31:17When it comes to mobs,
31:19PTI would not like a settlement through mobs.
31:22And neither does PTI have this capacity,
31:24nor do they have this politics,
31:25nor do they have this kind of trait.
31:27They want a direct political process in a country,
31:30there should be elections,
31:31and we are winning the elections.
31:33There are no two problems.
31:34So, Imran Khan, I think, wants that the temperature…
31:37The pressure should increase,
31:38but it should not increase so much
31:39that the whole apple will be chopped off.
31:40It should be simmering,
31:43but it should not boil.
31:45I am taking you to the other side.
31:48They are going to London.
31:49What is being thought there?
31:51What is happening there?
31:53Mariam Nawaz is also politically silent.
31:56Shahbaz Sahib is also politically silent.
31:59Mian Sahib is completely silent.
32:00He came for 14 rupees one day,
32:02then why did he ask me to leave and go back?
32:04What is going on within PM and Edward?
32:06What do you think?
32:07I think that Nawaz Sharif has lost mentally.
32:12And any of his politics…
32:14First of all, I did not understand
32:17what was the logic
32:19that by removing Shahbaz Sharif,
32:20you have to make Nawaz Sharif the president of Noon League.
32:22And by making Noon League the president,
32:24he is sitting in Murree
32:25and eating his safe ship.
32:28Nothing is happening.
32:29Secondly, I do not know,
32:31but some of his close people
32:33also think that
32:34Mian Sahib is not well.
32:36If he is not well,
32:38then he should not have become the president.
32:41But now the whole purpose of his life
32:43is to somehow make Mariam Nawaz…
32:45Now it is set.
32:46How to set it?
32:47She has become the prime minister.
32:48No, to make Mariam Nawaz the prime minister.
32:50She has become the chief minister.
32:52I think they have to hand over the party.
32:55Whether she becomes the prime minister or not,
32:56that is the matter of the Christians.
32:57They have to hand over the party.
32:59And I think that
33:01Shahbaz Sharif is also not a hurdle for him.
33:04Because Shahbaz Sharif has completely failed.
33:08If you look at the internal politics of Islam,
33:10then it is very difficult for Noon League
33:12to stand up for itself at this time.
33:14And the only politics they are playing
33:16is that the establishment
33:17should somehow deal with Imran Khan.
33:19Our opponents should finish him
33:20and all the Christians should stand with you.
33:21Yes, yes, we will stand together.
33:22But the whole game of General Faiz
33:24that has been played,
33:25you have seen the details,
33:27the news is coming,
33:28they are telling clearly
33:29what has been told,
33:30what has happened,
33:31what has been said,
33:32they have told everything.
33:33How difficult is this?
33:35This is a story.
33:36This is an internal issue of the army.
33:38They will see it.
33:39Do you think there is any connection with 9th May?
33:41No, no,
33:42what connection do they have with 9th May?
33:44No PTI knew what was going on in 9th May.
33:46What else would they know?
33:48Actually, look at the issue.
33:49The issue is that
33:50now there is a dilemma of PMLN.
33:52You see, they have two narratives.
33:54First, they made a narrative against the judges,
33:56against Saqib Nisar Sahib
33:58and Asif Siddique Hussain Sahib.
34:01They thought that
34:02if they make a narrative against Judiciary,
34:04then we will get it.
34:05Now, they have come here and stopped.
34:07They don't understand
34:08whether we have to oppose Mansoor Ali Shah
34:10or not.
34:11After that,
34:12I have been seeing since yesterday
34:14that Irfan Siddiqui Sahib
34:15against General Raheel Sharif
34:16has started making a narrative.
34:18So, the PMLN politics is so confused.
34:21Every day they have different enemies.
34:23They have...
34:24Excuse me, sir.
34:25Because we don't want to go against
34:27those who can hurt us in the future.
34:29Yes, they can go.
34:30And then the old people
34:31who are in jail...
34:32Now, if you see against General Bajwa Sahib,
34:35PMLN is not saying anything.
34:37Interestingly,
34:38General Raheel Sharif
34:39has started opposing
34:40General Raheel Sharif
34:41two steps back.
34:42Now, here,
34:43Mansoor Ali Shah Sahib
34:44is not understanding
34:45whether we have to oppose him
34:46or not.
34:47So, Saqib Nisar Sahib
34:48has started opposing him.
34:49Now, you have seen
34:51that the information ministers come
34:53and say that
34:54we will arrest Saqib Nisar as well.
34:56See,
34:57if you read the statement
34:58of the establishment
34:59that came against General Faiz Sahib,
35:01there was no such thing.
35:03Now, there are people
35:04who want to add their wishes
35:05to the statement
35:06of the ISPL.
35:07But there was politics,
35:08Mr. Fawad.
35:09If you read the statement,
35:10especially after the next arrest,
35:12and they were also told
35:13that there was a violation of the Army Act.
35:15Then it was said
35:16that the next arrest
35:17was because of politics
35:18and it was done because of them.
35:20Sir, I know
35:21that it will take time
35:22to come back,
35:23but I think
35:24these feelings
35:25are being left behind.
35:26Are you going back
35:27to PTI?
35:28I will ask you
35:29in the last minute.
35:30Where are you going?
35:31Do you want to go to PTI?
35:32See,
35:33the thing is
35:34that I have already said
35:35that when Khan Sahib
35:36is called,
35:37we will go.
35:38Now,
35:39we keep talking.
35:40Is the matter cool?
35:41Did you get the message?
35:42Messages keep coming.
35:43Is it a message
35:44of good intentions?
35:45Good intentions?
35:46No.
35:47Because they said
35:48that whoever stopped you,
35:49I don't think
35:50I have heard them
35:51saying
35:52that they will not
35:53take anyone back.
35:54When the time comes,
35:55we will see.
35:56No,
35:57they are ready.
35:58There were
35:59a few things
36:00in between.
36:01Let's take a break.
36:02After the break,
36:03we will come back.
36:04Mr. Fawad,
36:05tell us
36:06about the ongoing
36:07fights
36:08between PTI.
36:09I am surprised
36:10that you are
36:11fighting like kids.
36:12It is a five
36:13to six-month
36:14assembly
36:15and inside those
36:16assemblies,
36:17it seems
36:18that
36:19the PTI
36:20lost the game.
36:21If you look
36:22at the PTI,
36:23they need
36:24a quick
36:25end.
36:26They need
36:27a quick
36:28end.
36:29So,
36:30everyone
36:31should get together
36:32for that.
36:33So,
36:34I told you
36:35that if you
36:36increase the
36:37level,
36:38it will fall.
36:39So,
36:40you say
36:41that they
36:42want to
36:43cool it down.
36:44I am
36:45saying
36:46that Mr.
36:47Khan
36:48has to
36:49do it.
36:50If it
36:51comes to
36:52the mob,
36:53then
36:54religious
36:55extremism
36:56will be
36:57there.
36:58Okay.
36:59We will
37:00leave now.
37:01We will
37:02leave now.
37:03We will
37:04leave now.
37:05We will
37:06leave now.
37:07We will
37:08leave now.
37:09We will
37:10leave now.
37:11We will
37:12leave now.
37:13We will
37:14leave now.
37:15We will