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00:00Well, also covering this story is our foreign editor Ketivan Gorgiastani. She's with me in the studio now.
00:05Ketivan, just tell us a bit about why Russia is apparently once again focusing on Ukraine's energy infrastructure
00:12and why it's such a problem for Ukraine.
00:14Well, because we're at the end of the summer, which means that soon enough it's going to start getting cold in Ukraine.
00:22And the United States had these two words. They called it the classic move from the Kremlin,
00:31which is, of course, targeting that energy infrastructure ahead of the winter to make things even harder for the Ukrainians.
00:39And the Russians are not hiding from it. They are saying, yes, we are targeting that energy infrastructure.
00:45That is what we're going after.
00:47And you saw the Americans reacting to that yesterday, putting out a statement saying that
00:54Washington was surging its energy equipment to Ukraine to repair what Russia has damaged
01:00and to strengthen the resilience of Ukraine's energy grid.
01:04But this is something that the Russians have been doing ever since the start of the war.
01:12And yes, it is, as we saw in that report, a really big problem for the Ukrainians because they have to play catch up.
01:20They have to go and figure out whether they can save part of these energy plant, repair it in time for the winter.
01:30But at the same time, you could also argue that even though Russia has been targeting that infrastructure for more than two years,
01:38so far, at least, the Ukrainians have managed to sort of keep the country at bay, if you will,
01:45whether it is because they're very good and fast at repairing because of the help of the allies and their resilience,
01:53whether it is because the Russians, even though they are targeting that infrastructure,
01:59they're not doing it efficiently enough.
02:02But at least for now, they've managed to, yes, have rolling blackouts, yes, have problems with water, gas, electricity.
02:10But overall, they have managed to keep the country going even deep into the winter.
02:16And that is what they are hoping is going to happen again this coming winter.
02:20Well, let's talk a bit about President Zelensky, the Ukrainian leader, because he's been appealing to the West
02:26to greenlight the use of long-range weapons deeper inside Russian territory.
02:31Let's take a listen to the President.
02:37Each of these strikes repeatedly brings us back to the task of long-range capabilities,
02:42the need to provide our defence forces with enough long-range weapons that can destroy terrorists exactly in the areas of their strikes.
02:51This is the optimal counter-terrorism tactic, one that every partner of ours has the right to
02:58and would undoubtedly use to protect themselves.
03:01And we expect decisions from them, decisions on our long-range capabilities.
03:06So, Ketivan, Zelensky wants to be allowed to use Western weapons in Russia, deeper inside Russia.
03:13What's the Western response to that?
03:16Well, there has been at least a response from the White House on record
03:21saying that Washington has no changes to its policy about how its weapons can be used in Ukraine.
03:30And the policy right now when it comes to those missiles is basically
03:34you can target within Russian territory, but keep it close to the border,
03:39basically in a sort of self-defence move of targeting areas or locations where the fire is coming from.
03:49But they have sort of put a red line to targeting deeper within Russian territory,
03:56which is what Zelensky is asking for.
03:59But you have to go back to the start of the war to sort of understand what is at play here,
04:05because this is not the first time that the US or other allies, for that matter, have said,
04:10no, you cannot do this, and then a few months later decided to go back on that
04:16and say, actually, here's the green light.
04:18They did that for just in general offensive weapons at the beginning of the war.
04:24They did that with tanks. They did that with the F-16s.
04:28And now they're also moving on the Russian territory part
04:31because initially there was a sort of red line on even targeting just on the other side of the border,
04:38and now you're seeing that move.
04:40So the question is, is this one of those red lines that is going to be moved back again in a couple of weeks,
04:46a couple of months, because there is pressure.
04:48Zelensky, of course, is pushing for it, but also allies are not necessarily agreeing amongst each other,
04:55because, for example, the British and the French seem to be a little bit more open
05:01to the idea of going a little bit deeper within Russia to target military infrastructure.
05:07The Americans and the Germans seem to be really reluctant to do that.
05:12And over these past two years, the basic response and the reasoning for why to put all those red lines in the first place was
05:21we do not want to escalate this war.
05:23We do not want to give Russia a reason to possibly retaliate against allies,
05:28which so far the Russians haven't actually done every time those lines have been crossed,
05:33which is the argument of the Ukrainians.
05:36But in the meantime, while the allies decide whether or not to do that,
05:40the Ukrainians are moving along because they just announced that they had tested successfully
05:46a first ballistic missile, a homemade ballistic missile,
05:50and that just after last week announcing a missile drone that was a long-range missile drone.
05:57So, the idea is possibly to start building it at home so that they don't need the green light of the allies.
06:03Fascinating. Thanks very much, Ketavan Gordjastani, for us there.