Political Deputy Editor David Bol chats with Scottish Labour Leader Anas Sarwar

The Scotsman

Political Deputy Editor David Bol chats with Scottish Labour Leader Anas Sarwar   Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar and Finance spokesperson Michael Marra will hold a briefing on the state of Scotland’s finances under the SNP.

Transcript

00:00Hi, I'm David Ball, the Deputy Political Editor of The Scotsman. I'm here in the

00:03Scottish Parliament with Scottish Labour leader Anna Sawa, who is launching this

00:07finance briefing on the state of the economy in Scotland and asks how have we

00:11got here? The Scottish Government would say that this is largely down to

00:13Westminster and a lack of funding. How do you see it? So David, that's why we

00:18thought was really important to do the briefing with journalists today around

00:22the financial situation we have across the UK and here in Scotland because I

00:26think there's been a lot of deliberate misinformation actually from the

00:30Scottish Government and I think it's important to be clear about what the

00:33facts are and if you don't mind I'll take them in turn. There was of course

00:37the IFS and the talk of the 20 billion pounds black hole over the course of the

00:44Parliament, something that the SNP repeatedly raised during the election

00:48campaign and we were very clear that we would not return to austerity, that we

00:54would have some tax changes to increase the money that was coming into the

00:59Treasury and therefore can be spent on public services, that would be a positive

01:02consequential for Scotland and we were clear that we had to strive for growth

01:07in order to change that financial position for the UK and also for

01:11Scotland and we were also clear that we would be willing to borrow to invest. So

01:15that was the 20 billion pounds for the IFS and the response we had from the

01:19election, that's not changed now. There is then the 22 billion pound figure

01:24which is the in-year black hole for this year that was identified when we came

01:30into government and the seriousness of that cannot be downplayed. I know the SNP

01:34want to downplay the carnage, it's for them to answer why they want to

01:37downplay the state of the economic situation left by the Tories but as

01:43serious as that was it's why there is now a review happening of the

01:47transparency of the information provided by the Treasury to the OBR because of

01:51that failure to give that transparency in the last year and the SNP want to

01:55try and pretend that 22 billion pound in-year figure is the same as a 20

02:00billion pound figure that we're talking about over the next five years. It's

02:02simply not the case and not true. That has not had, I should

02:07emphasise, a detrimental impact on Scotland's budget. It is a challenge

02:13for the departmental budgets in other parts of the UK but it has not had a

02:18detrimental impact on Scotland's budget. That is something that's been confirmed

02:21by the Scottish Fiscal Commission this morning. There is then the third issue

02:25which is around the winter fuel payment which is a decision the Chancellor has

02:30made that she said she didn't want to make, has been forced to make because of

02:33the scale of the economic carnage. That is now a devolved benefit this year and

02:38I am very sympathetic to those who say that pension credit is too narrow a

02:43criteria for that payment and therefore we have again repeating the open

02:48offer of willing to work with the Scottish Government and of course the

02:51representative organisations of older people across the country to identify

02:54what a fairer criteria looks like and how we can find the money in order to

02:59have a different system. Something the SNP are often saying they want is

03:03benefits devolved so we can do things differently here in Scotland. Well this

03:07is now a devolved payment and we have the opportunity to do things differently in

03:10Scotland. And the fourth which is related in terms of what the SNP are

03:15trying to say is that the emergency spending controls implemented by Shona

03:20Robinson are somehow related either to the winter fuel payment announcement or

03:24to the Chancellor's statement before the summer recess. It's simply not true.

03:29It is either them demonstrating economic illiteracy or them deliberately trying

03:34to mislead the public, neither of which are a good look and frankly I think

03:37people can see right through it. The idea that the decision on the winter fuel

03:41payment is the reason why this SNP Scottish Government has cut funding for

03:46Creative Scotland, has cut funding for NatureScot or is removing 450 teacher

03:51posts from Glasgow, removing teachers from working-class classrooms when

03:55apparently challenging child poverty is meant to be their number one mission is

03:59complete and utter nonsense. It's a result of their incompetence and their

04:05mismanagement and their waste. And I know I've given a really long answer but

04:08just to emphasise, that's not just me saying that, that's been emphasised this

04:12morning by the Scottish Fiscal Commission, it's been emphasised by Audit

04:15Scotland, it's been emphasised by the Institute for Fiscal Studies, someone

04:18that they don't want to quote on this occasion, and by the Fraser of Allander

04:22Institute. So the incompetence, the waste has to end and they need to stop that

04:26usual SNP reflex of looking for somebody else to blame or looking for excuses.

04:31It comes a point where they have to take responsibility and it's their

04:34mismanagement that has left Scots paying more and getting less.

04:38We're coming back from summer recess facing these quite stark cuts by the

04:41sounds of it. Are you concerned that areas such as tuition fees and

04:46prescriptions, there's been some talk that they might get touched. Surely the

04:49financial situation is different from when these debates were held in the past

04:53and are those areas you can see maybe getting touched and what would you do?

04:57Well I think given the scale of the financial mismanagement you've seen in

05:00previous years, the SNP make budget revisions in year where they set the

05:06budget and then move money around within departments or pull back on spending.

05:11We've yet to see the scale of that and we hope to hear more of that when the

05:14Parliament comes back after recess, when we sit next week. And I think it's

05:19really urgent that we have transparency and that's again an issue that's been

05:22raised by Audit Scotland and others that there's a failure to give proper

05:26transparency around the public finances from the SNP Scottish Government. But I

05:30think if we can stop the incompetence, we can stop the waste and we can stop

05:34the financial mismanagement then we can avoid getting ourselves in the situation

05:38we're in. Right now under this SNP government you have local government

05:42finances completely broken, you have delayed discharge costs which is even

05:48more expensive than if they properly funded social care packages, you have

05:52teacher numbers being cut across the country and you look at for example the

05:57ferry scandal, the huge waste that we've seen in terms of hundreds of millions of

06:01pounds over budget. That incompetence and waste has to end because it's now

06:05starting to cut to the bone and it's starting to have a negative impact on

06:09working people here in Scotland and the blame for that lies squarely with this

06:13SNP government. Say if you came into government in 2026 is your intention,

06:17some of that waste you would inherit it doesn't just stop overnight and if you

06:20want to pay for stuff like the NHS, boosting those appointments that you've

06:24promised and helping that relationship between local and central government

06:28you have to find some money for that so what is your plan to pay for these

06:31things? Surely you would acknowledge you'd have to cut somewhere. I think

06:34that's a really important question David because we are going to take a serious

06:38grown-up approach and not try and do the sticky plaster reports as what you saw

06:42by the Tories over 14 years and what you've seen by the SNP over the last 17.

06:46A few things within that, one of the biggest gaps we've had in public

06:50policy here in Scotland is that we have rightly had a huge focus on social

06:55policy but we have not had an equal focus on economic policy and Scotland's

07:00budget is now directly linked to our growth here in Scotland and also through

07:05the fiscal framework the size of those on the median wages in both of

07:10which the SNP has failed to properly plan for. So we are going to put

07:14economic policy, economic growth front and centre, that increases the size of

07:17the cake rather than the cake shrinking year after year and the slices getting

07:21thinner and thinner, that's the first thing. We're going to deliver economic

07:25growth. Secondly we have to stop the waste and the incompetence, the

07:29Fed scandal being a good example of that. And third we have to do reform. If

07:33you look at our health care system, why for a population of five and a half

07:38million people do we have 50 boards? We are a country now that is bureaucracy

07:43heavy. We have lots of layers of management where there are talking shops,

07:47where there are discussions, when that money instead can be spent on frontline

07:51services and frontline staff. That's the kind of examples that we'll set out in

07:55more detail as we head to the election in 2026. And finally Keir Starmer today

07:59set out quite a gloomy picture of the UK economy. It's unlikely that that's going

08:03to improve in the next sort of 18 months in the lead up to that Holyrood election.

08:07Are you concerned that that sort of legacy and what people will tie to a

08:10Labour government at Westminster will harm your chances of winning that

08:14Holyrood election? I think what people will appreciate is one the huge sigh of

08:19relief that we've got rid of a Tory government. Secondly that we've ended the

08:24economic incompetence and carnage across the UK and that we finally have a grown

08:29up serious government that is going to get on with fixing the fundamentals,

08:33stabilising our economy, growing our economy and delivering for Scotland. That

08:37is not going to be an easy process and we've never pretended it was. If you

08:40remember during the election I was repeatedly asked and I repeatedly

08:44answered that we are not going to be able to fix every problem straight away.

08:48There is no magic wand, everything's not fixed overnight. This is a long hard road

08:53but we only start that journey for change if we elect a Labour government

08:57and that journey for change has already begun. We've reformed the low-paid

09:00Commission, we're going to deliver a pay rise for the lowest paid workers across

09:05the country. We're in the process of delivering the New Deal for Working

09:08People, that legislative process has already started. We've already completed

09:11the first two stages of the legislature around GB Energy that will be

09:14headquartered here in Scotland so we maximise our growth opportunities here

09:17in Scotland. That's just a few examples of how a UK Labour government has hit

09:22the ground running and how we're going to make sure Scotland is at the heart of

09:24that government and that we deliver for Scotland. Great, thank you. Thank you.

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