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Imran Khan demands open court trial for Faiz Hameed | Advocate Raja Khalid's Analysis
Imran Khan demands open court trial for Faiz Hameed | Advocate Raja Khalid's Analysis
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00:00One issue, obviously, Faiz Ameed's trial that is going on at this time,
00:04the demand for an open trial has come from Mr. Khan,
00:06but in the military court, if someone's trial is going on,
00:10if the case has gone to the field marshal,
00:15and things are developing very fast,
00:18so first of all, this demand, and secondly, what is the process of this?
00:22Generally, people are saying that the punishment will be given blindly.
00:26Does this always happen?
00:28According to the laws of the military,
00:30let's discuss this as well.
00:31We have with us Mr. Raja Khalid,
00:33a lawyer, and a former deputy attorney general.
00:36Thank you very much, Mr. Raj, for joining us.
00:37It's a pleasure having you in the program.
00:39Mr. Raj, first of all, this is a very high-profile case.
00:43This is not an ordinary case.
00:45This was the biggest news this week, or this month, or perhaps this year,
00:49that General Faiz Ameed is being court-martialed.
00:54He has been arrested.
00:55First of all, obviously, for the Khurd-Bhurd case.
00:58Secondly, after retirement,
01:00do not adhere to the laws of the Pakistani military.
01:03Now, in this trial, is there a right of defense
01:08for a person who is being trialed for a court-martial?
01:12In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Most Compassionate.
01:14The unique thing about this is that it is a misconception
01:17that in the military courts where trials take place,
01:19the right of defense may not be fully given.
01:23Or perhaps in a haphazard manner,
01:25or in a haste,
01:28expeditiously,
01:31the right of defense is given.
01:33This is not the case.
01:34I have experience in this regard.
01:37I have also been present in FGCM and other routine court-martials.
01:43In this case, they don't immediately put their hands up like the police.
01:47They watch the person for a period of time,
01:51their activities, and all the incriminating evidence they have,
01:54they keep collecting.
01:56When they have a substantial evidence,
02:01incriminating evidence,
02:03and cogent evidence available,
02:05then they put their hands up.
02:07And I believe that their inquiry,
02:10their findings during the inquiry,
02:12is such a strong evidence
02:14that it becomes difficult for the accused to come out of it
02:17or for him to be acquitted.
02:20So you are saying that there is no need for defense?
02:22No, no. There is a need for defense.
02:24Now, as far as defense is concerned,
02:27in the first instance,
02:29a defending officer is given.
02:34He may be a major rank officer.
02:36Let's assume that there was a court-martial like this,
02:40and there was an accused in it.
02:42So, the person who was given to the accused,
02:45the army officer, was a major rank officer.
02:47He was a defending officer to defend the accused.
02:50Now, if that accused does not want to consult his choice,
02:54cannot afford it,
02:56then that defending officer,
02:59on behalf of the accused,
03:01he will place...
03:03So this is interesting.
03:04I am sorry I am cutting you short.
03:06The accused,
03:08whose FGCM is taking place,
03:10does he have full permission to hire his lawyer?
03:16Does he have full permission?
03:17Does he have full permission?
03:18Does he have full permission to pay for his choice,
03:20to find his competence according to his thoughts,
03:23and to hire his lawyer?
03:24Is that true?
03:25Look, the famous defendants of Pakistan,
03:28Samdani Sahib, Ijaz Batalvi Sahib,
03:31and similarly, Sardar Ishaq Sahib,
03:34Khwaja Sultan Sahib, Khwaja Harith Sahib,
03:37all of them have conducted trials in military courts
03:40on behalf of the accused.
03:43Meaning, the counsel of his choice,
03:45he has the right to hire not just one lawyer,
03:48but many lawyers.
03:49Interesting.
03:50Meaning, among the civilians,
03:51and let me say one more thing here,
03:54that in the civil court,
03:55there is initial statement,
03:57which we call examination in chief,
03:59then cross-examination,
04:01but there is no chance of re-examination,
04:03there is a practice that
04:05the witness is re-examined.
04:07Interesting.
04:08If there is a question left in the mind of the accused,
04:10he wants to clear it,
04:12he wants to falsify the statement given by the witness.
04:16So, he is at liberty to re-examine the witness.
04:21Right.
04:22And all the evidence,
04:24whether it is oral,
04:25whether it is documentary evidence,
04:27in whatever form it is,
04:28he has the permission to present it.
04:30Okay, let's move on now.
04:32Mr. Khan has demanded
04:34that this FGCM,
04:37should be open-trialled.
04:39The public should see what is happening.
04:41Although, Zain Qureshi was with me a while ago,
04:44I did not see him agreeing to it.
04:46In itself, Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaaf had given this statement,
04:49that it is a matter of the military,
04:51let the military handle it.
04:52But, the demand that has come now,
04:54is there any room in its law,
04:57can there be any space,
04:58that for the sake of clarity,
05:01and for the sake that
05:02all things are running very clear and transparent,
05:05it should be open-trialled.
05:07Now see,
05:08in the army,
05:09it is not the case that
05:10this incident is happening today,
05:12that a court-martial is taking place,
05:13of one of their officers.
05:14This happens every day,
05:15it is normal.
05:16Right.
05:17But, it does not come in front of the media.
05:19But, every day,
05:20it is not such a high-profile case.
05:21No, it is not a high-profile case.
05:22As you said in the intro,
05:23that it is first ever in the history of Pakistan,
05:26that the DG ISI,
05:28he is being prosecuted in the military court.
05:31This has never happened before.
05:33There was one,
05:34Durrani Sahib,
05:35he was censured.
05:36He was warned,
05:37that the book you have written,
05:39it has such and such paragraphs.
05:40Asad Durrani Sahib.
05:41Yes, Asad Durrani Sahib.
05:42And apart from this,
05:43till date,
05:44no one of this level has been punished.
05:46This is a unique example.
05:48Now,
05:49this matter of open-trial,
05:51the Army Act of 1952,
05:55nowhere is it provided,
05:57that you,
05:58any army officer,
06:00or anyone who is doing a trial,
06:02should do an open-trial.
06:04Because,
06:05it is a matter of discipline.
06:06You have an extremely organized
06:08and disciplinary institution.
06:11In that,
06:12the internal matters,
06:14should be disclosed,
06:15or should be exposed in front of the people.
06:17By opening it,
06:18they will not spoil the discipline of their army.
06:21This is not possible.
06:22There are many trials,
06:23but the media does not know.
06:25There are also crimes.
06:26There are vote-marches.
06:27But, this is being compared,
06:29that the civilians,
06:30at some time,
06:31the military,
06:32their trial,
06:33whether it should have been an open-trial or not,
06:37whether it could have been an open-trial or not,
06:39and now,
06:40this trial is being compared.
06:42Many people are comparing,
06:44that this should also be an open-trial.
06:46Transparency,
06:47for the sake of transparency.
06:48For the sake of transparency,
06:50if it happens,
06:51if it happens,
06:52then what will be the repercussions?
06:53The repercussions will be very dangerous,
06:55for this country.
06:57The morale of your army will be down.
07:00Why?
07:30Because,
07:31you have done a lot of plunders.
07:32So, when all these things come in front of such a person,
07:35then there is no respect for the army.
07:37There is a lot of commotion in their court,
07:40and the violation of their discipline starts.
07:43Morale goes down.
07:44Therefore,
07:45they do a secret trial,
07:48and keep it to themselves.
07:50And the media is not told all these things.
07:53The same things are told,
07:55which are very relevant,
07:56that these were the charges,
07:57and this was the punishment.
07:58I will come to the charges and punishments,
08:00and possible punishments.
08:01But,
08:02a person,
08:03who has retired from the military,
08:05he has taken the oath,
08:07of the military.
08:08By the way,
08:09all oaths are given first.
08:10Politicians have also taken the oath.
08:12But, what happens there,
08:13is in front of us.
08:14A person who has taken the oath of the military,
08:16in politics,
08:18after retirement,
08:19in some way,
08:21can he play his role?
08:23You know,
08:24there is a ban for two years.
08:26So, it is for normal people.
08:27After two years,
08:28as you know,
08:29many generals are still in the parliament.
08:31Army officers,
08:32brigadiers,
08:33many such people.
08:34General Abdul Majeed Malik,
08:36was the minister of loyalty,
08:38many times.
08:39His son-in-law,
08:40and his nephew,
08:43Major Tahir Iqbal,
08:44are still in the parliament.
08:46Many such examples are there.
08:48But,
08:49you can complete the due period,
08:51and then do politics.
08:53But,
08:54you have done such a thing,
08:56in violation of your oath.
08:57Correct me if I am wrong.
08:58Correct me if I am wrong.
08:59Two years,
09:00for a normal military man,
09:01and for an intelligence officer?
09:02Yes, for all.
09:03For an intelligence officer,
09:04it is more than five years.
09:05Right.
09:06It is more than five years for him.
09:07Exactly.
09:08Now, we are talking about,
09:09what will be the punishment for this?
09:11Because,
09:12as you said,
09:13all these things have become clear,
09:14and have not come in front of us.
09:15What were their actual crimes?
09:20You said that,
09:22all crimes are seen with due diligence.
09:24What punishment can be possible?
09:27See,
09:28the charge sheet has not come in front of us yet.
09:31Which sections are there,
09:34of the Army Act,
09:35or the Official Secret Act,
09:36in which they are being charged.
09:38When they come in front of us,
09:40then we come to know,
09:41according to which section,
09:42which section is there.
09:43But,
09:44the allegations that are coming in front of us,
09:46in light of that,
09:47I think,
09:48section 31,
09:49is the charge of sedition,
09:51i.e.
09:52mutiny in the Army,
09:53inciting people to rebel,
09:55dividing people,
09:57inciting them to disobey the government,
09:59or disobey the Army,
10:02then the punishment for that is death sentence.
10:04Similarly,
10:05section 26,
10:06the punishment for that is death sentence.
10:09If,
10:10you have,
10:11in such political matters,
10:13or,
10:14if you have,
10:15while serving in the Army,
10:18you have committed a crime,
10:20or,
10:21you have,
10:22what do you call it,
10:24incited people to rebel,
10:26incited them to disobey the government,
10:28or,
10:29if you have committed such a crime,
10:30you have disclosed the secrets,
10:35then,
10:36in such a case,
10:37there is also death sentence for that.
10:39If,
10:40during your service,
10:42it is written,
10:43during your active service,
10:46if you have committed such a crime,
10:47then,
10:48there is death sentence,
10:49but,
10:50if you have committed such a crime after retirement,
10:52then,
10:53there is 5 years of imprisonment.
10:54Similarly,
10:55section 40,
10:56of the Army Act,
10:57in that,
10:58the top city allegation is,
11:00I think,
11:0140 will apply,
11:02that,
11:03you have committed personal gain,
11:05you have grabbed some properties,
11:07you have misused your position,
11:09you have deprived people of their rightful property,
11:13their lawful property.
11:16Right.
11:17So,
11:18according to that,
11:19you will be given 5 years of imprisonment.
11:21Right.
11:22But,
11:23there are two sections,
11:24in which there is death penalty,
11:25section 31,
11:26I think,
11:27that will be applicable,
11:28and,
11:29then,
11:30section 26.