Fatal Affairs S01E05 Meth, Mayhem & Murder
When a new, hot girl arrives in town, it causes heads to turn, including that of the local heartthrob; however, he's married - and waist-deep in the town's drug problem; when they embark on an affair, it leads to mayhem and murder.
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00You
00:08She was drop-dead gorgeous
00:11beautiful body
00:13Every boy wanted to date her
00:16He was the catch of the town
00:18He was known to be the guy that everybody wanted to be around and human nature human biology takes over from there
00:25He liked her she liked him
00:27They went from there, but there's a problem
00:38I couldn't wrap my head around what had happened
00:42He was about to lose everything just total unbelief
00:47Cornered people rarely respond. Well, it's still haunts that community to this day
00:52I
01:01Can't see my life without
01:11The scene was blue who would have a motive who is the killer if she loved you enough to kill
01:18in stories like these
01:20Fairy-tales rarely come true
01:42It's an Ascot in the 2000s pretty quiet town we used to say they roll up the streets about eight o'clock
01:50But things go on there's some partying drinking drugs and other things
01:55Just like a big town on a smaller level
01:59To ask it. It's a town where you know your neighbor and everybody takes care of each other a
02:04Lot of history here family names do mean something here
02:09Affairs rely upon lovers sneaking around in the shadows
02:12But while you're busy spending lies the fallout can be very far-reaching
02:17You have to be really careful about who gets dragged into your web of to see
02:34Michelle Kitterman's presence in the city of Tanaska was always part of big what I would call the hoofer on down on mill Drive
02:42They were known to be the lively bunch
02:46Michelle was funny and outgoing. She was drop-dead gorgeous
02:51perfect beautiful body perfect beautiful smile
02:56Every boy wanted to date Michelle
03:01Michelle was the life of every party and loved attention on her
03:08She liked to have a good time
03:11What is that?
03:12famous coyote
03:14The bartenders that would perform on the bar kind of a situation
03:18Michelle was something that she would she would stop traffic
03:22There was several gentlemen that enjoyed some wild nights where Michelle performed
03:35Michelle had been a single mother since her son was a baby. And so living close to family was very important
03:44Michelle had recently moved to Tanaska to be closer to her mother. She needed to really settle down
03:51She had been in Seattle prior to moving. She was said to have been a model for a bit
03:56But she stopped to take care of her son
03:59Danny Pavlik was kind of the catch of the town
04:03Danny was the guy that everybody wanted to be around. He was always in the middle of things
04:09Danny Pavlik was introduced to Michelle Kitterman at a party one time
04:16And that's how they got to know each other
04:20He liked her she liked him and they went from there I
04:24Was aware through kind of family conversations that she had met somebody and had fallen for somebody
04:33Danny was quite attractive. And so I think that was an initial draw and when you live in a town of a thousand people
04:40There's probably not a lot of options. I
04:44Mean if we're being honest here
04:49Michelle loved attention and
04:53Men tended to worship the ground that she walked on
04:57Danny was giving her love and affection and she was
05:01affection and she craved that
05:05She had fallen for this guy and he appeared to have really fallen for her as well
05:11But Michelle always had poor judgment when it came to picking men that she fell for
05:19Turned out that he was married
05:23What I knew is he was getting out of the relationship
05:28Danny was married to Lacey Hearst
05:32The Hearst family was very prominent in the community. They owned several businesses throughout several of the small towns
05:40Her parents had the Whistler's restaurant, which is a pretty popular family restaurant here in Tanaska
05:48Bob Hearst who would be Lacey's grandfather was County Commissioner, which is pretty important job
05:56Lacey had a very well-to-do job down at the local car dealership and she was the breadwinner
06:03Danny Pavlik, he was the Shade Street mechanic
06:07Lacey got married right out of high school and had two kids
06:12but it ended in divorce and
06:15She went quickly from her first marriage and found Danny
06:21Children in that family weren't Danny's but he treated those children like they were
06:26He was very loyal and devote to them even though he was not their blood father
06:30Danny was kind of a heartthrob and Lacey probably looked at him as a prize that she wanted
06:37Danny had it easy having Lacey pay for everything and take care of everything and he was the party boy and he went and did
06:43whatever he wanted
06:45Lacey was the catalyst to Danny not having to have major responsibilities
06:51And that gave him the freedom to do what he did
06:56Danny wanted to keep it a fair secret because of his wife's money and her position in town
07:03There was an understanding that although he was married it wasn't a healthy relationship and he was going to leave his wife
07:15Michelle was very trusting and
07:17If Danny had told her that the relationship wasn't working out and that he would leave his wife. She absolutely would have believed that
07:27I think she was a little naive in certain situations
07:40Emergency a
07:43Woman found a body in her driveway
07:46There were approximately six to eight inches of heavy wet snow on the ground
07:50Those are the roads that you take somebody on
07:54Because you know, there's nobody coming to help them there were puncture wounds and scratches all over the body
08:02She was hysterical
08:04It had a lot of shock to it. It's disturbing. I just couldn't wrap my head around the reality of what had happened
08:18In a small town like this there's not really anything going on
08:23There's no mall. There's no movie theater
08:25and so if you are gonna go out for a night the casino is a fun place that
08:33Anybody in these small towns goes to on the weekend or for a night?
08:39Michelle Kidman and Danny Pavick were seen out and about at the casino at 3 a.m
08:45And you know word gets around if something like that is going on
08:50And Lacey Hearst found out about the affair
08:55It was not a secret. There was no secret about the relationship at all
09:00Everybody knew what was going on
09:03It's very hard to have a secret relationship in a community of a thousand people
09:10The
09:16Relationship was a burden for Lacey for a very long time
09:20Lacey had a failed marriage and the thought of another one failing just probably destroyed her mentally and physically I
09:28Remember several times trying to find Danny. She say I haven't seen him all night. He hasn't been home. It was obviously the pain her greatly
09:36Lacey
09:39Wasn't an unattractive woman, but
09:42Standing next to Michelle Kidman. She was the lady you would bring home to mom. Michelle was not
09:54I heard that Lacey didn't have a lot of friends in school
09:57She was a bit snobbish and people befriended her just because of her money and her family's position in town
10:06Those were the folks that had the things and you know, you've looked at and you wonder what the heck I come
10:11I can't have that I can imagine that social status left her a little less popular. It's a common thing with any small town
10:19Probably made Lacey feel like she was an outsider in her own town
10:24Getting together with Danny the most popular boy in town clearly made Lacey feel like she was somebody
10:31So I don't think she's gonna let him go without a fight
10:36It
10:37Was Tansy a drug dealer who introduced Danny Pavick to Michelle Kidman at a party one time?
10:47Tansy Mathis was born in Bolivia
10:51But grew up in the tenasket area with her mother
10:55She was a quiet person, but people knew who she was and people knew who she was connected to
11:02She was someone definitely be reckoned with and
11:06She was waist-deep in drug distribution particularly methamphetamine
11:18Methamphetamine in the early to mid 2000s became a problem in Washington State
11:24Everything that we did was driven by that drug
11:26Everything that we did was driven by that drug
11:29most often not you would come into contact with somebody either possessing the methamphetamine or
11:34Delivering the methamphetamine or be somewhere close proximity to something that was going to show up related to the methamphetamine problem
11:42Tansy was known to be the person bringing in the drug
11:46Danny Pavick was also involved in drugs and would sell drugs for her
11:51Michelle's use of the methamphetamine was the connection and the commonality that led to the relationship with Danny and
12:00You know human nature human biology takes over from there
12:03Whether there were drugs involved or not. She was blinded by love and all she wanted was to have somebody forever
12:14Michelle is a twin. She wasn't used to being alone. She really needed a relationship. She needed a family
12:19She wasn't used to being alone. She really needed a relationship. She needed somebody to want her and be with her
12:25And so I think Danny filled that void
12:31As he grew more into the fondness for Michelle the less time he was at home
12:36Danny Pavick would leave the house for days on end
12:40Throughout the winter months
12:42There were numerous calls from Lacey where she would call in what we call attempts to locate and she would report Michelle Kitterman's
12:49This direction no license probably has warrants and she's high or she has drugs or things like that
12:57What little power that Lacey had was her ability to call things in to get Michelle in trouble
13:04It was a typical patrol evening for me was a typical attempt to locate the description was Danny's Toyota pickup
13:12Lacey had actually known that Michelle was driving the truck and so called the police
13:18To get her arrested knowing that she was driving on a suspended license
13:22And this had been so frequent with Lacey that she had to go to the police
13:27To get her arrested knowing that she was driving on a suspended license
13:31And this had been so frequent with Lacey in regards to Michelle and Danny
13:36That we knew immediately what it was we were looking for
13:39It was so common that I didn't even need the license plate on Danny's truck that night to know that when it went past me
13:46It was the vehicle that had been called in for the attempt to locate
13:52I go up to the driver window and see that it's Michelle
13:56I immediately feel the anxiety because I know I now have Michelle Kitterman
14:02She just didn't know anything except zero or high automatic
14:08Michelle didn't have a valid license and she ended up having methamphetamine on her and some drug paraphernalia
14:14Michelle was typical Michelle. She fought us
14:18I often felt she overreacted in order to cause a scene
14:22And no matter how much you try to talk no matter how much you try to reason
14:27There's nothing you could say to calm her down
14:31She had a very strong dislike for law enforcement just as a baseline
14:35And you say Michelle, I see the pipe. I see the stuff just calm down. We'll deal with it and it's no
14:41no success
14:43Trying to hold on to her was like holding on to a Tasmanian devil
14:51So
14:53Michelle was arrested and it's not a stretch to say that lacy may have been back at home going
15:01Gotcha
15:03At least michelle was in jail
15:05Those are the free days nights that she knew at least danny wasn't with michelle
15:11Maybe that was the peace and the solace that lacy sought for all those calls that she placed
15:15And
15:20Lacy was going to do everything in her power to try and break danny and michelle up
15:25For michelle that just drove her resolution to remain in the relationship with danny and to make lacy suffer
15:34Michelle, she'd fight you whatever the situation was. She was not going to just lay down for anybody
15:40And
15:45There was a shift in the the way things felt in town
15:51The whole town is talking about the love triangle
15:55Danny was still seeing michelle
15:57And still with lacy and telling them each everything that they wanted to hear to keep both of them happy
16:04And
16:07He wanted to keep
16:09the life that he had built with lacy and keep the money and all of the things that he got from her and
16:16Also be with michelle
16:22I don't know if lacy and michelle ever met. I don't know if they ever spoke to each other where lacy would tell her
16:27You're wrecking my family
16:29but lacy, I believe
16:31Probably was more tolerant of the situation than she would have normally been had it not been her second marriage
16:37danny was
16:39playing to women
16:41It was obviously something he was very good at
16:46And could say whatever he needed to say in the moment to appease each of them
17:01So
17:05There started to be lines drawn in the two camps that were loyal to danny and people that were loyal to lacy
17:13You need to leave your wife. Why aren't you doing this? How can you do this to lacy? She's doing nothing but support you
17:32And
17:33Michelle definitely faced some backlash for the relationship with danny
17:37Michelle had become somewhat of a local pariah and was being thought of as a home wrecker
17:45Even if lacy wasn't popular stealing her husband would have been thought of as
17:50Taboo in a small town like tanaska
17:54And then michelle found out that she was pregnant
17:59That's where
18:01everything turned
18:09When she found out she was pregnant, although the situation was not ideal she was ecstatic
18:18She had been a single mother from the time nathan was a baby
18:23And she really wanted a family unit a mom and a dad
18:27So I think she was really looking for somebody that could complete her family
18:47Michelle gave danny an ultimatum. He had to leave his wife to be with her
18:54She firmly believed that he was going to choose her
18:59But danny povic
19:01Had everything he had a wife
19:03That allowed him to do things he wanted to do and pursue the things he wanted to pursue because of what she did for a living
19:10Now michelle was pregnant with his child
19:14You could see the shift in danny
19:17Danny was at a crossroads
19:19Danny was at a crossroads and felt he might be about to lose everything
19:27Michelle has pushed danny into a corner
19:30She wants the family
19:31But danny has it too easy with lacy in my experience cornered people rarely respond. Well, in fact, typically they come out fighting
19:42And just ask it just like any other small town rumors spread quickly
19:47The rumor had gotten out that michelle was pregnant with danny's child and it got back to lacy
19:55The gossip in town is driving lacy crazy and she decides to confront her husband about the pregnancy
20:03Put on the spot danny confesses to lacy that michelle is pregnant
20:09So
20:13Lacy's furious, but she doesn't want to lose danny but tells him that he has to drop michelle
20:20And so danny was like, mr. Miyagi in the karate kid walk one side walk the other side fine
20:27Walk center get squished just like a grape
20:29He was stuck
20:31And he couldn't bring himself to make that choice
20:39So
20:46Michelle and danny started to have domestic disputes
20:51Both started to feel the pressure and
20:54The outcome of the choice that they had made. How did you allow yourself to get pregnant? How can you do this?
21:00Why did you do this because it would have not benefited either side for her to have that child?
21:04There was this obvious shift that neither one of them really understood where to go, I don't think
21:10You couldn't tell exactly what it was, but you knew something had changed
21:14Michelle used to represent fun and freedom to danny
21:17But now she's started making demands on him demands that his wife doesn't even make
21:23He's starting to feel like look. This is not what I signed up for
21:26And it's possible now that because michelle is pregnant
21:29Danny no longer wants her around. He has no choice
21:32Danny no longer wants her around. He has no need for her. She may be starting to become a liability for him
21:55Danny stayed with michelle quite often
21:58But danny wasn't with her that day and hadn't come home when he said he would
22:03He had told her that he needed to go and work on his car when in fact he went back to lacey's house
22:09And stayed there that night
22:11Michelle was home
22:13Very upset that danny wasn't with her and probably angry
22:22And at that point tansy mathis came over with a friend
22:28Chansey was a drug dealer. They were acquaintances and they invited her to go to the casino
22:35Michelle is like what else am I going to do?
22:38I might as well go to the casino with you rather than sit here and wait for danny to come back or not
22:58So
23:03The stalder road is one of the most remote places in the north county area
23:08And it is a very steep road and very hard road to manage
23:17March 1st of 2009 a woman coming back home from church found a body in her driveway
23:24It had been snowing during the night there were approximately six to eight inches of heavy wet snow on the ground
23:32Those are the roads that you take somebody on because you know, there's nobody coming to help them
23:39I live about five miles from where this body was found. So i'm vested immediately in this situation
23:48There were puncture wounds and scratches all over the car
23:51Puncture wounds and scratches all over the body
23:55We were unable to identify who it was
23:59This unknown body was found far out in the middle of nowhere and the cause of death was unknown
24:14When deputies arrived they identified that it was a female she was sitting on the side of the driveway
24:22She was in jeans and a bra no shirt or coat
24:27She was sitting on her coat
24:29And her shoes were off
24:33The question is why is she here and what are all these marks on her and why is she half dressed?
24:38A shoe here
24:41A piece of tape to mark the shoe location
24:44Pre-faded footprint was here
24:47It was very cold. There was a lot of snow on the ground
24:51another pretty
24:53Faded shoe impression here. Her body was found in the snow
24:57So hypothermia set in which makes your body look a little bit different
25:01Impression here her body was found in the snow
25:05So hypothermia set in which makes your body very hot
25:09And you want to take your clothes off. It doesn't recognize that, you know, it's 20 degrees outside
25:14Your body is just on fire. And so she was taking her clothes off to try to get relief from that
25:22Looks like here
25:24It's a piece of hair on the third
25:26strand up
25:28About seven inches or so over from the tape
25:37There was the puncture marks that people said well
25:39She wrapped herself in barbed wire as she was going through this hypothermic mindset, which is delirium
25:49When I came on duty there was no idea who she was
25:53The detectives had said look need to get out there and ask questions
25:59Veronica was the kind of woman that I would talk to
26:03Veronica is on my regular patrol route on county road seven and the bar was a place where you know people came and went
26:12And the media she says everybody's stressed out because nobody has seen michelle in almost 24 hours
26:17And at that point I will never forget the immediate drop in my stomach to my feet
26:25I realized the person that we had found up there on staller road was michelle
26:32And everything changed that day
26:43My cell phone kept ringing and ringing and ringing
26:46My cell phone kept ringing and ringing and ringing and
26:50finally
26:52Picked up the phone and it was my mother and she was hysterical
26:58And through her sobs michelle's dead michelle's dead. Oh my god
27:04um
27:06I just remember
27:09Falling to the floor and couldn't wrap my head around
27:13like how
27:15What what do you mean?
27:24The autopsy had been conducted and what was thought to be the hypothermia wrapped in bob wire ended up being uh puncture wounds
27:35Michelle kitterman had been stabbed over 30 times on her body with a very small diameter
27:42long
27:43object
27:45She had been attacked in the roadway
27:49And she had been left to die there
27:53She had picked herself up and was trying to get up the driveway
27:59She was only able to go so far and she sat down on her coat and passed away there
28:10The autopsy also revealed that she was 11 weeks pregnant
28:16The fact that she was pregnant was hard on everybody
28:20Once I found out
28:22That it was a violent murder. I really had no clue what could have happened
28:28Except for the fact that she was pregnant with a married man's baby
28:33In my gut it was could danny be involved somehow?
28:40I knew that there had been an ultimatum
28:43Recently and michelle was waiting for that answer when the murder occurred
28:55Danny was one of the first people contacted
28:58And interviewed concerning his whereabouts that night before
29:03He stated that he was on the couch
29:05At his wife's home
29:07During that night until four o'clock and then he left
29:11I think it was very convenient
29:14that
29:15Danny ended up going to lacy's the night of the murder. The timing is just suspicious
29:22Law enforcement then talked to lacy hearst about the affair and the baby
29:29She said she wasn't bothered by it. She's just waiting for danny to make a choice between her and michelle
29:36So
29:38For danny and his group you had each other
29:41Asking were you involved they were questioning each other's integrity of whether or not they were involved with michelle's murder
29:47There actually was what I call the sharks eating the sharks for a little while
29:53Danny pavick was one of our top suspects, but we didn't limit it to just being him
29:59We got a lot of information coming in very quickly that led us to going down another direction
30:06I remember the detective getting a call and it was lacy saying she wanted to talk to us again
30:13We went to the hearst home
30:15We had little handheld digital recorders that we used for interviews
30:21Lacy was making her choice her opening statement was if i'm not mistaken. I know who did this
30:29Lacy gave a statement that she had a friend named tansy
30:34Who had made comments to lacy that michelle was a snitch and she needed to be dealt with
30:53In this drug distribution networks snitching is really, you know the ultimate taboo
31:00To be honest with you michelle was very hesitant to have any contact with law enforcement
31:04If she was a confidential informant or a snitch
31:10She didn't act like it
31:12The detective was now on the pursuit of locating tansy there was a shift in the focus
31:18And that's when the real investigative work started
31:25Tansy was arrested brought to the police station
31:28We attempted to interview her
31:31She said she wanted an attorney
31:33And she was totally denying that she had any part in what happened to michelle
31:40So at this point in the investigation, we are attempting to locate another individual named brent phillips
31:46He was with tansy the night that michelle was murdered
31:49So
31:51Tansy was kind of a big-time drug dealer and had people they called tax men that did enforcement when people didn't pay money
32:00Or snitches to beat people up
32:02And so if tansy were to go to one of these
32:07Enforcers and say there's a snitch that needs taken care of that's something that they do
32:13We got lucky
32:15Brent phillips had checked himself into a local rehab here in spokane in an attempt to hide
32:23While incarcerated brent wanted to give a statement
32:27And he was willing to testify in court and explain what happened the night that michelle was murdered
32:32So
32:40Brent confirmed lacy's statement that tansy believed that michelle was
32:44Going to be a snitch and she needed to be dealt with
32:48I stabbed her approximately five times that I recall
32:52I was choking her and holding her down
32:55I seen that tansy was right next to me stabbing her and she was yelling at me to finish it
33:02so
33:04But there's a problem
33:06The autopsy shows us that the most intense injuries were to her abdomen womb area
33:14I don't feel in dealing with a snitch that you would stab them in the abdomen the way that was done to michelle
33:21Just because she's a snitch. This was something more sinister something else was going on
33:27Michelle was stabbed 38 times with an ice pick and beaten
33:32Several of the stab wounds were concentrated around her abdomen and her uterus to kind of ensure that the baby died
33:41Someone was trying to attack that baby
33:45How any human being could want a baby dead a person dead
33:51My being can't even comprehend
33:54What that is like?
33:57He thought there's got to be something to do with this love triangle aspect of this case
34:07Brent phillips requested to speak with us again
34:11And he told us that an unknown person had rented a vehicle for tansy
34:17It was a four-wheel drive a chevy trailblazer and that led us to the car dealership where lacy works
34:26She had rented a vehicle for tansy
34:30Because tansy didn't have a credit card
34:32And that vehicle was used to pick up michelle and take her to the location where she was ultimately
34:39murdered and left
34:48Lacy hearst was arrested at her parents home
34:52The person with the motive the person with the reason to be angry the pressure should always have been placed with lacy
35:00It wasn't until lacy got arrested
35:03That all of the the puzzle pieces came together to kind of tell the story of what had really happened
35:12When the detectives were talking to lacy she was being tape recorded
35:17She said that she wanted
35:19Michelle to be roughed up tansy said it'd be five hundred dollars to do it
35:25At one point she wanted the recording stopped
35:29The detectives wrote in their reports that lacy said she wanted michelle dead. She wanted the baby dead
35:36She specifically told the police I wanted the baby dead and I wanted michelle gone
35:42And then the recorder was turned back on
35:44And then the police were turned back on I think in her mind she thought if it wasn't recorded that it couldn't be used against her in court
35:52Hearing lacy make that confession. That was pretty much that nail on the proverbial coffin
35:59She just confessed to wanting michelle gone wanting the baby dead
36:04And so there really isn't any going back from that
36:08Lacy was charged with murder in the first degree
36:11She asked for this to happen
36:14Whether she said killed or not killed. It doesn't matter
36:17Michelle died therefore you get that charge
36:21Lacy pled not guilty, but witnesses came forward to tell us about the fact that lacy was obsessed with danny
36:30She was not happy about michelle being pregnant and she did not want michelle to continue to be pregnant
36:36There were several pieces of evidence that were damning against lacy. She
36:42rented the car
36:43that was used to
36:45complete the murder
36:47She had also told several people the friday before that that by monday all of my problems are going to be gone
37:03Putting the statements together they took michelle up to stalder road
37:09They decided they were going to smoke a bowl of meth
37:14And they were going to smoke a bowl of meth
37:18Tansy said you cannot smoke the meth in this car
37:24So they pulled over and that's how they got michelle out of the car
37:35They proceeded to strangle her stab her tansy said finish her
37:43And then they left her there
37:47When she was left in freezing cold temperatures
37:51She was able to crawl up the driveway and that's where they found her
38:00During the trial
38:01The clothing that michelle wore was presented
38:05and the holes
38:06in the blood
38:08Put the jury at that scene at that time for that person to experience that kind of pain in those circumstances
38:16And then the loneliness
38:18the prosecutor at the time painted a very
38:21Dark distinct picture of the loneliness and the remoteness of staller road
38:26Even if michelle had not succumbed to her wounds and had gotten to a home to get help
38:30It was still so remote. She may not have survived
38:34It's a very difficult case a very ugly
38:38violent crime
38:39I think that it was hard for the jurors to really
38:43Get past a lot of the graphic physical evidence there was
38:47It was very disturbing to the jury
38:53Lacey was convicted of murder in the first degree and manslaughter for the unborn child
38:59And
39:00The prosecutor contended that lacey hirst sought out tansy mathis to take the life of michelle kitterman
39:13Tansy mathis was charged with one count of aggravated murder and manslaughter for the death of the unborn child
39:21And both she and brent phillips were found guilty
39:26tansy and brent phillips
39:28Had committed the crime
39:30But it was orchestrated by lacey
39:41Almost anyone can relate to and understand why lacey would be jealous of her husband having an affair
39:48We can all relate to how humiliating and embarrassing it would be for all of your personal business to be out in the community
39:55But not only to kill michelle but to kill her unborn baby
40:00This is something hateful and heinous to do to another human being
40:06Lacey was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole
40:11The day that that sentencing happened was the biggest relief that i've had in my entire life
40:19Michelle adored her son and he worshiped the ground that she walked on
40:27Knowing her
40:29made my life
40:30better
40:32and losing her
40:33Is going to leave a hole in me for the rest of my life and she's left
40:38You know, it's left a hole in in a lot of people's lives
40:42It affected the entire community
40:45Not just michelle
40:46It affected the entire community
40:48Nine mil drive was not the same
40:51I saw the destruction that it caused with the kidderman family
40:55Danny povick's life is totally destroyed now. He leaves the area because
41:00He's considered the guy that caused lacey to lose her freedom and michelle to be murdered
41:05All this because of a love triangle
41:12Liz jumped into this marriage, but she hated being a mother
41:16She would go on dates with bad boys this whole double life that she was leading just blew up in her face
41:22Just frantic freaking out when people are in that state. They're really capable of anything