PRESS HOUR of August 18, 2024
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00:00:30Welcome to today's edition of Press R. When public service examinations or other kind
00:00:42of selection procedures are organized for employment in Cameroon, there is a precision
00:00:48that ignites heated debate.
00:00:51It is four ordinary level GCE papers excluding religious studies or two advanced level GCE
00:01:00papers excluding religious studies.
00:01:03Yet this is a subject numerically considered the same as the others in the certificate
00:01:10examinations in our country.
00:01:13Some people argue that if it is not to be considered in recruitment, what is the use
00:01:19getting religious studies as a subject?
00:01:23You have others who hold that it is the basis of moral foundation in education.
00:01:29But from a general perspective, moral standards are on the first lane of decay in the Cameroonian
00:01:37society.
00:01:38A Cameroonian scholar, Professor Wilibrod Dzingwa, who is with us on Press R set today,
00:01:45sees it as an orientation problem.
00:01:48According to him, the subject should be morality studies or moral education because moral values
00:01:55are universal.
00:01:57We have other scholars who oppose this view.
00:02:00We shall cross the views on today's edition of Press R. It is a moral and intellectual
00:02:06encounter you cannot miss.
00:02:09This is Press R and I am Kilian Ndandifone, Iyounde.
00:02:28You are welcome back on today's edition of Press R. Of course, we've always told you
00:02:33that we do not suppress our emotions.
00:02:36What we do is that we let our good sense guide our debate, our feelings and discussion.
00:02:43That's what you're going to get on Press R today and at this moment, permit me to introduce
00:02:47the guests, the panellists on Press R this day for you.
00:02:51We have Reverend Emmanuel B. Massok, who is the Secretary Committee of the Ministry of
00:02:57the Presbyterian Church in Cameroon.
00:02:59He has travelled all the way from his station in Douala for Press R to talk moral issues
00:03:05on Press R today.
00:03:07You're welcome, Reverend.
00:03:08Thank you very much.
00:03:09It's my delight to be here and I'm really grateful to be in the midst of such great
00:03:14people here on this panel.
00:03:15Beginning with you as a great person, moral authority, and just this morning I listened
00:03:20to your sermon on radio.
00:03:22You have a radio teaching, preaching that you have.
00:03:27I listened to it.
00:03:28It's always very exciting.
00:03:29Thank you for getting us up once in three months to give us that type of devotion in
00:03:36the morning.
00:03:37Thank you very much.
00:03:39Yes, let me cross the set to introduce Professor Zenguab Willie Broad.
00:03:46He has so many qualifications, but I take him today as a political scientist and an
00:03:52educationist on Press R. Prof, it's our pleasure to welcome you to the programme today.
00:03:59Thank you very much, Kilian.
00:04:00It's really my pleasure to meet my friends, especially the Reverend Masaak.
00:04:07You will permit me to pay tribute to two persons, Tumfo Badistun Nikohale, who upholds high
00:04:16moral values, and of course to veteran Peter Isoka, whom over the years, through his reflections,
00:04:24struggled to imbibe moral values within the Cameroonian society.
00:04:28We join you, Tumfo Nikohale, is a personal friend, peace crusader.
00:04:36He has close to 200, I should say more than that, awards in peace and other things that
00:04:43deal with humanity.
00:04:45We are a tribute to him and to Uncle P. Our own thank you for bringing those names to
00:04:50us on Press R today, people who watch Press R and who appreciate what we're doing here.
00:04:56Thank you for all of you who are there with us and I continue the introduction with you,
00:05:01Dr. Isidore Kwakwom, who is a civil society doctor.
00:05:05You are a doctor of philosophy.
00:05:08You're welcome to Press R.
00:05:10The pleasure is mine.
00:05:11I'm naturally happy to be here, hoping that we will discuss issues that will be able to
00:05:14shape the life of our society.
00:05:16We are told that philosophers take things out of the normal and sometimes they don't
00:05:20bring people back to the reality.
00:05:23We hope you are not going to go and then let us hang in the debate of today.
00:05:27Not of course.
00:05:28I will be within the context of morality, which is what is bringing us here together.
00:05:34Thank you very much for coming, Dr. Isidore, and our own Richard Lejong, the publisher
00:05:43of the Herat Tribune.
00:05:47It's a bi-weekly and sometimes you have special editions.
00:05:50Richard, thank you.
00:05:51We always carry the Herat Tribune on Press R and all the newspapers that are here.
00:05:57You're welcome to Press R.
00:05:59Thank you very much, Kilian, and it's my pleasure to once more be on set with Reverend
00:06:05Massok.
00:06:06We're together some other time and almost talking on the similar topic.
00:06:11And it's also my pleasure to be on set with Professor Zengwe and, Doctor, I do appreciate
00:06:18you all and that I'm happy being with you on set on this very, very important and crucial
00:06:26topic that has to, you know, change, see how it can change our society.
00:06:31We actually have to make meaning out of, you don't have a subject on a certificate examination.
00:06:39That's an examination, but you don't have it in employment, in recruitment.
00:06:44It's as if it's useless.
00:06:45At the end of the program today, you're going to put your finger on something or we're going
00:06:50to come up with a suggestion that could change the way things are going when it comes to
00:06:55religious studies.
00:06:57But before we get into our discussion, this is what the press fed on during the week,
00:07:03and it is in the press review that's done for us by Yoti Kalele Songe.
00:07:07Yoti, you read the papers for Press R.
00:07:10Adept pressmen touched even on the nitty-gritty details to keep the readership informed.
00:07:19Cameroon's first couple is captured amongst attendees of the 80th anniversary of the commemoration
00:07:25of the landings in Provence on the invitation of French President Emmanuel Macron.
00:07:30A ceremony during which President Paul Biya takes to the rostrum on behalf of his African
00:07:35peers indicates Cameroon Tribune.
00:07:38While bringing to memory Europe's triumph during the Second World War, the papers also
00:07:43inject pathos in their articles on the demise of the former CAF President Issa Hayatou.
00:07:50The Guardian post goes straight to the point with the caption,
00:07:53Former CAF President Issa Hayatou dies at 78.
00:07:57The horizon cues in with details on his background and career,
00:08:02while Cameroon Tribune spotlights the sports icon going home.
00:08:06Emmanuel's journey to eternity is embarked on at a time when the 2024-2025 school year calendar
00:08:13is unveiled, with Cameroon Tribune indicating that it rumbles off on September 9, 2024.
00:08:20To break it down further, the horizon pinpoints that the 2024-2025 school year,
00:08:26whose start was initially set for September 2, has been postponed to the 9th.
00:08:32Before pupils begin hitting the roads back to school,
00:08:35the stance of the Council of Medical Sanitary Professionals on the training of health personnel
00:08:40is projected on the Herald Tribune.
00:08:43The same print media organ is keen on the impact of social media on mental health,
00:08:49whilst various newspapers accentuate the new twist in the Nextel saga.
00:08:55Meanwhile, some journalists and media houses who have not been respecting the ethics of the profession
00:09:01are dealing with the brunt of the unprofessionalism.
00:09:04The outcome are the sanctions meted out on them by the National Communication Council.
00:09:09The details are published on municipal updates.
00:09:12In the meantime, Lifetime highlights that the child stolen at the Ekumbim Baptist Hospital in Yaoundé has been found.
00:09:20This same week, Catholic Christians celebrated the Feast of the Assumption,
00:09:25portraying the Blessed Virgin Mary as a model of humility.
00:09:29The nation's import substitution ambition, likewise the launching of the new cocoa season,
00:09:35as well as the National Hydrocarbons Corporation's standpoint on the sale of Cameroon's crude oil,
00:09:41also featured on some of the week's newspaper publications.
00:09:46Thank you very much Yoti Kalelesonke for reading the newspapers for us on Press R.
00:09:59And at this point, we're going to call on Richard De La Jonge, who is our pressman on the set,
00:10:05to choose one of the topics, and we kind of braise the matters that the topic brought.
00:10:12Thank you, Cleone. Permit me to choose two topics.
00:10:15The first is the death and burial of the former CAF president, who died and was buried on Friday.
00:10:28That's Isaiah 2.
00:10:30I want to say that, you know, the way he was buried, according to me,
00:10:38he was only giving the deserved attention that somebody who has held, I mean,
00:10:45the top position of football, FIFA, even though for five months,
00:10:51but I think that through his more than 28 years or so in CAF, he brought in a lot of reforms.
00:11:02And we had the president of FIFA, Seb Blatter, and Dr. Musepe of CAF coming in.
00:11:09And, you know, the way Cameroonians, you know, they were less interested.
00:11:16No, the head of state was represented.
00:11:18Yeah, the head of state was represented.
00:11:19The minister of sports was there, who represented the minister of sports, the head of state.
00:11:23You had the governor for the north, you had the senior division officers.
00:11:29You had Muslim dignitaries, you had different ministers.
00:11:33They were always represented.
00:11:34But what attention was given to that funeral?
00:11:37Fun like we see others.
00:11:39I mean, let's look at CITV.
00:11:42They did not give a live broadcast, even when the call was being received.
00:11:46Why did they not give a live broadcast?
00:11:48This is what happens.
00:11:49They choose other things that are less important.
00:11:52This is what happens.
00:11:54If you ask Isa Hayato, he would have told you that even what you saw like that should not happen.
00:12:02In the tradition of the Muslim, you are not supposed to carry the corpse around and organize ceremonies.
00:12:09If you interpret it from this background, you will understand that you are not going to get deeper into that.
00:12:15So let's not deviate so much.
00:12:17In the tradition of the Muslim, that won't happen.
00:12:20The next issue is about this training of midwives, nurses, lab technicians by this lay private higher institution of learning,
00:12:37which was a call for concern that somebody gets into one of these higher institutions of learning to be trained as a nurse.
00:12:46After two or three years, it comes out with an HND or BTS.
00:12:51And then there is no other window, no future.
00:12:55But I'm happy that the joint ministerial decision, or the joint ministerial decision,
00:13:02suspending the training of these nurses from these higher institutions of learning, the lay private,
00:13:09and then they are going to set an exam that will integrate them into the nursing order.
00:13:16That is in place. Very good.
00:13:18Those are the two topics that he has chosen.
00:13:20I think we should have one minute to talk about that.
00:13:24Beginning with you, Dr. Isidor.
00:13:27I think that the two-minute suppressing HND program for the training of midwives, nurses in lay private schools is quite important
00:13:37because the HND itself in Cameroon has a serious problem, a very serious one,
00:13:41in the sense that HND is limited within the frontiers, the bounds of Cameroon.
00:13:45It doesn't go beyond.
00:13:46And then there is no competitive entrance to the public services with HND too.
00:13:50And some of these HND programs you hear, like agricultural engineering,
00:13:55meanwhile some of these children are being trained, they have never gone to the farm.
00:13:58Like this midwife, you come as someone who has studied history, literature, philosophy, high school, become a nurse,
00:14:03and then you can begin to imagine the background of how they heard of people having a job in this country.
00:14:08Thank you very much, Professor Zimba.
00:14:11I just want to clue in to say that in the nursing program, the HND program isn't limited to two years, it's about three years.
00:14:20And I want to think that considering other countries, we don't need any particular scientific background to become involved in nursing.
00:14:29As all of your relatives, or most of your relatives who are in America, who studied the history here, they are doing nursing over there.
00:14:35So what I'm trying to say is that I think the ministries are doing something good to readjust, I think the word suspension is hard.
00:14:42They want to readjust the program and harmonize it so that the two ministerial departments should be able to co-observe the training of this personnel.
00:14:55Thank you very much for that very incisive and, I should say, bringing in a kind of correction.
00:15:04Because you are of the higher education, you are the president of the Githubus.
00:15:11Heritage University Institute of Peace and Development.
00:15:14Yes, so you know that so well. Thank you.
00:15:16I'm going to call on Reverend Emmanuel B. Massok to say a word or two on this HND, BTS, that has no future for these students.
00:15:28Let me just give a general comment. There's a lot of issuance of certificates, but there's not a commensurate in the application of the knowledge that has been acquired.
00:15:38So the question will be, what is the question of all, a lot of certificates, a lot of learning, and what is the effect on society?
00:15:46I think that's what we should be reflecting on.
00:15:49Let me just quickly add this, that with these HND programs, there is no board that is controlling these exams of HND.
00:15:56And there are no inspectors who always go down to the field to verify the program being done.
00:16:00Most of the officials in the ministry who go down to the field, they don't actually do an effective job.
00:16:04And worst of all, in some of these HND programs, you see that the exams, I mark the HND, some of the exams are set by unprofessionals.
00:16:12Thank you very much. And we want to applaud the two principal titular ministries who discovered that this was not having the desired effect.
00:16:25Yes, and had to come back on the program.
00:16:28Yes, I cannot refuse to give you one minute.
00:16:32Thank you Vice Dean, then I'll be complacent.
00:16:35I think that there is a strict follow-up of the programs.
00:16:40Every year, the Minister of Higher Education sends teams to the field to verify the teaching programs.
00:16:50At the degree level, all the universities are affiliated with state universities, which send and even control the setting of the questions.
00:17:00So it isn't just as we think.
00:17:03Thank you very much. This is not our focus for today. We may have time to talk about that.
00:17:08It has come back readily because we have so many Cameroonians who have gone through that program and we don't know exactly where they are lost as we speak.
00:17:20So we're going to find time to talk about that.
00:17:23Just after this interlude, we're going to delve into our discussion on today's edition of Press Hour.
00:17:46Yes, the morals are declining.
00:17:49Moral decay in a country where we have religious studies.
00:17:54Religious studies that are not considered in recruitment, in employment, in official or public space in Cameroon.
00:18:04We are questioning why. What is happening?
00:18:08And Professor Zingwa has a reflection on should it be religious studies or something else?
00:18:16Moral education. I give you this time to situate us on what we think should be.
00:18:23Well, thank you very much. I speak under the authority of a religious authority and very learned colleagues.
00:18:31Let me say religion simply means to rejoin or reconnect the natural to the supernatural.
00:18:40So it simply means that we have to reconnect with a superior being.
00:18:46That is what religion simply means.
00:18:48And it is centered on faith and worship.
00:18:51So there should be faith and there should be worship.
00:18:54And we have three basic religions.
00:18:57We are talking about animism, for example, which is the worship of rocks, stones, mountains and all of that.
00:19:03We have the religion of gods, which is the religion of a superior being that is God, Allah and all of that.
00:19:10And then we have the religion of non-recognition of God.
00:19:15We are talking about ethics, the religion of philosophy, the religion of reason.
00:19:20Then we can also talk about traditional religion.
00:19:23And in the contrary, let me just say that one of the best things that the founding fathers of this country did was to make Cameroon a secular state.
00:19:35And being a secular state in order to minimize conflicts.
00:19:39Because the question now is which religion is supposed to be evaluated?
00:19:44Is it the religion of gods? That is what is being evaluated.
00:19:47Is it animism? Is it traditional African religion?
00:19:51What about Buddhism?
00:19:53So we thought that it is incumbent.
00:19:56Let me say, I am a Christian, a practicing Christian, so I am not undermining Christianity.
00:20:02I was told that if you don't want to frown in Cameroon, don't talk about religion and don't talk about football.
00:20:13So we just want to pray that we understand our views.
00:20:16Morality, on the other hand, should be based on the differences between the good, the bad, the ugly.
00:20:24What is good? What is bad?
00:20:29What are the ethics leading to this?
00:20:32So I have the very strong notion that moral values are generally acceptable across the board.
00:20:42While religious values are respected strictly within the culprits of the followers of that religion.
00:20:49And religion is a fundamental element of conflicts.
00:20:54So in order to rule by conflicts, the basic question would be, which religion?
00:20:59Should we practice and evaluate people in Islam?
00:21:04I can say that there are Muslim scholars who cannot read English and French.
00:21:09But who have PhDs in Islam, using the Arabic language.
00:21:14Now, if we have to assess that, are we going to assess our values, our culture?
00:21:19I listened to Reverend Tata this morning.
00:21:26Tata from Humana?
00:21:28No, Tata Humphrey.
00:21:30Making a relationship between religion and our culture.
00:21:36Now if we have to consider culture, and it's being accepted by the religious authorities, what culture?
00:21:44So that is why we think very strongly that insisting on religion is going to make the atmosphere very conflictual.
00:21:52Because we will not put our finger on which religion to be able to assess.
00:21:57But morality is accepted by Christianity, is accepted by tradition, is accepted by Muslim, is accepted by Buddhist.
00:22:06So moral values cut across. Basic moral values.
00:22:11I see that. When you spoke to me, I got convinced that there's a lot of meaning in what you say.
00:22:20That's why we have this topic here.
00:22:22Yes, I'm going to ask Dr. Isidor, who is a philosopher, to give you a point.
00:22:29We're going to end with the Reverend because he's an authority on morality.
00:22:33We allow him to listen to you, to listen and kind of digest what you're saying before he comes in.
00:22:42Yes, you are a philosopher. Tell us.
00:22:46Thank you, Kilian. I'm confused as to why the government can put a subject into the curriculum and not accept it into the public service.
00:22:54I see it as an organized mafia by the state, where teachers are being paid to teach children with this subject.
00:23:00Children buy books, they pay money to register this subject, they spend their time to read, and then at the end of the day, it is not being considered into the public service.
00:23:08I agree with Prof. that the subject should be rebranded as morality because moral values cut across.
00:23:17And if you want to put religion, as he said, there is African traditional religion.
00:23:22Now, why should we keep a subject that we are not using it or we are not practicing it in a real life situation?
00:23:29Meanwhile, children are paying money to do that.
00:23:32So, we should rather come in with another discipline, which is morality, to suppress that.
00:23:36Because in Cameroon GCE program, if you want to register 11 papers, the number 11 subject must be religious studies.
00:23:43And in that religious study, it is divided into three sections.
00:23:46Paper 1 is social life, and paper 2, we have the patriarch from Abraham to the death of Bathsheba.
00:23:52And then we come to the gospel of Luke, and then section C, in that same paper 2, is Islam.
00:23:57And then in that religious study, which studies some basic aspects, some elements of values or morality, there is no African traditional religion ascribed.
00:24:06Prof. is questioning, which religion are we trying to practice?
00:24:10Because religious study is the science of the study of religion, which could be anthropological.
00:24:15And so, therefore, we are saying that either government step up with the discipline to be considered into the public service,
00:24:22or we change the subject and bring in another element or another discipline known as morality.
00:24:27Come to think of it, in 2012, there were three subjects that were brought into the curriculum.
00:24:33That is, citizenship education, which ends only at the level of Form 5.
00:24:37Unfortunately, people think that citizenship education is morality.
00:24:41No, it is a compendium of so many subjects like geography, economics, law.
00:24:45And now, logic was also brought in.
00:24:48We need a science that studies valid reasoning to distinguish correct from incorrect reasoning.
00:24:52It is taught by philosophers and logicians.
00:24:54Now, we equally have ICT that came in in 2011.
00:24:59It was first evaluated in 2016.
00:25:01Why not pick up this subject, like ICT, which is becoming a universal discipline now to be put at number 11,
00:25:08or citizenship, to step up some elements of morality enshrined into the curriculum.
00:25:12So, when government exploit people, that people to spend money, pay teachers,
00:25:17children pay their money to read and study this subject,
00:25:19and then at the end of the day, they don't consider it into the public service,
00:25:22then it means that the discipline is not useful.
00:25:25So, therefore, it should be completely skyrocketed from the program,
00:25:28and then a new discipline that can shape the morals of people to come in.
00:25:31Well, let me just say that for everything that is done,
00:25:36like you just talked about BTS earlier in this program, and HND,
00:25:41government is coming back on it.
00:25:43It was not conceived to exploit.
00:25:46Government does not exploit its own people.
00:25:48It is possible that policy may not have its desired effect,
00:25:53but it is not intended, as you say, to exploit.
00:25:56Now, we are going to move over to Richard Nde, who is a pressman.
00:26:00What is your position on this debate?
00:26:04If you ask me, Kilian, I would think that religious knowledge
00:26:08should be included into any public service exams.
00:26:13Because there is no reason, like Dr. Julius said,
00:26:16that you try to train in religious studies,
00:26:20you register that exams, have 33 points,
00:26:23and then you cannot use it to enter into any public service.
00:26:27I think it is kind of misplaced priority there.
00:26:32With all the type of society we are having today,
00:26:35it is because the children,
00:26:39or those who are involved in one public service activity or not,
00:26:44or the other, are probably lacking somewhere
00:26:48in their moral upbringing,
00:26:51which could have been brought up from the religious studies.
00:26:54Because from there, you will be able to differentiate
00:26:57what is right and what is wrong.
00:27:00At any moment you think of doing anything negative,
00:27:03your conscience freaks you.
00:27:06And that can only come from your religious background.
00:27:11And if you are found wanting in your religious background,
00:27:14then you probably don't have a place in society
00:27:17where you can even moralize.
00:27:20We have countries where, before you get employed,
00:27:24they want to check your moral background.
00:27:28But with us, it is not the case.
00:27:31It is not the case in Cameroon.
00:27:33Anybody can just come up today and become a policeman,
00:27:36and tomorrow he removes his gun and shoot somebody.
00:27:39But somebody who is trained, who is able to understand that
00:27:43killing is a bad thing, would not do that.
00:27:47And you can only get this from your religious background,
00:27:50if you undergo religious doctrine.
00:27:55I will go further to say, Cleon,
00:27:58inasmuch as we try to blame the state,
00:28:03parents are a big problem.
00:28:06Because they are the first parents of their children,
00:28:10who are able to co-carry into their minds the religious aspect.
00:28:15How many of us, on Sundays, or on Fridays,
00:28:20go to the church and try to take a look at our children?
00:28:25Keep them home, watch them play and do other things,
00:28:29and you will see that they will grow up today
00:28:32and go to church to be moralized.
00:28:35Thank you very much for the people who actually care.
00:28:38I am of the OSHA community.
00:28:43I was in church today, CBC.
00:28:45It took place in Yaoundé.
00:28:49I am one of the OSHAs in the church.
00:28:52We receive so many children.
00:28:54We even have children's section,
00:28:56where the children don't come into the mainstream type of school.
00:29:00They go to their own side.
00:29:02So people carry their...
00:29:04Well, if there are people who don't carry, that's an exception.
00:29:06What you have said is correct.
00:29:07I'm just stating that people carry their children to church.
00:29:11Before we get to our reverend, the moral authority we have here,
00:29:15we have one other person who thinks that
00:29:18religious studies should be maintained.
00:29:20It has its place in our curriculum.
00:29:24And this is Zumbushi Eriksu,
00:29:27who is an associate professor of literature and cultural studies
00:29:31in the University of Yaoundé-1.
00:29:34Listen to his own position.
00:29:40Thank you very much.
00:29:43I think I belong to the class of those
00:29:47who think that religious studies should be accepted
00:29:52by the state of Cameroon
00:29:54as a subject in the advanced level,
00:29:56a subject in the lower levels,
00:29:58equal in status to any other subject.
00:30:01Instead of teaching morality studies,
00:30:04teachers go teaching religious studies.
00:30:08Well, I don't see the great difference,
00:30:10because you cannot teach religious studies
00:30:13in exclusion of morality.
00:30:16If you look at all the books
00:30:19written by specialists in this discipline
00:30:22who have written books on religious studies,
00:30:25you will come to understand that
00:30:26religious studies and morality go hand in hand.
00:30:30You cannot teach religious studies in exclusion of morality,
00:30:34because you will understand that
00:30:38when we talk of religious studies,
00:30:40it has to do with a science,
00:30:43it's a discipline and interdisciplinary studies
00:30:47of different religions
00:30:50and where they are similar and where they differ.
00:30:54And when we study the different religions in the world,
00:30:59we realize that there are more similarities than differences.
00:31:05But unfortunately, so many people are keen to the differences
00:31:09and forget about the similarities.
00:31:12You see, you cannot teach religious studies
00:31:16in exclusion of morality,
00:31:18because when we talk of religious studies,
00:31:21God is at the center.
00:31:23And God is a spiritual being and also a moral being,
00:31:29because God does not only tell us how to relate with Him,
00:31:34which is spirituality,
00:31:36but God tells us how to relate with our neighbors.
00:31:40If I take an example,
00:31:42which is common in all the religions in the world,
00:31:46when you read the Ten Commandments,
00:31:49and I don't know of any religion in the world
00:31:51that you will not find the Ten Commandments there,
00:31:55when you take an example of the Ten Commandments,
00:31:57the first three commandments are spiritual dictates,
00:32:01God telling us how to relate with Him.
00:32:04The remaining seven commandments are moral principles,
00:32:08how to relate with our neighbors.
00:32:10So you realize that God is a spiritual being
00:32:14and also a moral being,
00:32:16because God does not only tell us how to relate with Him,
00:32:19He tells us how to relate with our neighbors.
00:32:22Love one another as I have loved you,
00:32:24thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal.
00:32:27These are all sound moral principles,
00:32:30all coming from one creator, God.
00:32:33Thank you very much.
00:32:35That is Professor Zumbushi Eriksu,
00:32:39who is Associate Professor of Literature and Cultural Studies
00:32:43in the University of Yangduwan.
00:32:46Now it's time for us to go to Reverend Emmanuel B. Massok,
00:32:52who is the Secretary Committee of the Ministry
00:32:55of the Presbyterian Church in Cameroon.
00:32:57Yes, you've listened to all these four people
00:33:00talking about morality and religious studies.
00:33:02Your position, Reverend?
00:33:04Thank you very much.
00:33:06First, let me thank Professor Zengwa
00:33:09for his introduction.
00:33:11Very, very reflective.
00:33:14Listening from all of them,
00:33:17I think I tried to pick some things
00:33:19which will clarify me more,
00:33:21so that it may deepen the conversation.
00:33:25I think the panel is in agreement that
00:33:28if religious studies is a full-fledged subject,
00:33:31it should be given its place.
00:33:33I think there is agreement on that.
00:33:36The point that has not been explained is
00:33:39what was the intention of religious studies
00:33:43in education in our curriculum.
00:33:46Was it to also form people spiritually,
00:33:49I mean morally,
00:33:51even if they did not use the subject
00:33:53as it has got ingredients to build the community?
00:33:57Now, when I hear him talk,
00:34:00Professor Dr. Isidor talks more about the content,
00:34:03it seems to be more biblical information.
00:34:06The students are given a lot of biblical information
00:34:10instead of trying to help them cultivate moral standards.
00:34:14In that case, the pedagogy,
00:34:16the pedagogic logic behind the putting of that subject
00:34:20on the curriculum becomes a bit challenging.
00:34:22If you gather people to go and give them
00:34:24biblical information about Abraham,
00:34:26you may not be helping them
00:34:28to develop moral attributes.
00:34:32So, we must look at the content.
00:34:34Now, this brings me to the point of intentionality,
00:34:37the law of correlation.
00:34:40Because, whether it is religion
00:34:43or it is moral instruction or education,
00:34:46the question is, what is the intention?
00:34:50How intentional is it?
00:34:52So, you discover that it is not even about the name,
00:34:55it is about the content or the implication of the name.
00:34:59You put religion study, you put moral education.
00:35:04What is the intention?
00:35:06How intentional is this?
00:35:08Is it working?
00:35:09Yes, is it men?
00:35:11How do we evaluate whether it is constructing the mindset?
00:35:16Then, the second issue I talk about,
00:35:18correlation or complementarity,
00:35:21you know that very well that the subject in itself
00:35:24does not guarantee moral uprightness.
00:35:27There are other facets.
00:35:29Talk about familyhood, family life.
00:35:32But, what about the psychology of the nation,
00:35:35the state of mind of the country,
00:35:37the operational framework of a country?
00:35:39If you have a country where the operational framework
00:35:42is corruption is rewarded,
00:35:44it contradicts even what you are teaching in school.
00:35:46So, I have talked about,
00:35:47so whether it is moral education you put
00:35:49or it is religious education,
00:35:51the question will be,
00:35:52what is, how intentional is that?
00:35:55And, how constructive is that approach
00:36:00in shaping the minds of the people?
00:36:02And then, secondly, I have talked about
00:36:04what are the other complementary facets
00:36:07that can enhance the wholesomeness.
00:36:10Now, let me go back to Professor
00:36:12and argue with you a bit about
00:36:14the question of religion and morality.
00:36:17You prefer moral than religion
00:36:20from a global understanding.
00:36:22Now, religion is more conservative,
00:36:25very, very conservative.
00:36:27And, it is always there.
00:36:32But, you also have the problem of which one?
00:36:37You know about inter-religious dialogue
00:36:40and inter-religious dialogue,
00:36:42they deal with constructive engagements.
00:36:44So, therefore, the question of which one is not a problem.
00:36:47Because, the religions,
00:36:48they have this dialogue
00:36:50and they have constructive engagements
00:36:53on the common good.
00:36:54So, that one has not much a problem about which one.
00:36:57Now, morality with global identities,
00:37:01taking their toll on local identities,
00:37:04on issues of globalization,
00:37:06you know, the movements of people,
00:37:08increasingly, moral values are becoming more fluid
00:37:12than religious values.
00:37:14So, while morality is being attacked
00:37:17by the global movement of people and information,
00:37:20cultures,
00:37:22religion still has a certain edge
00:37:24in terms of its conservatism.
00:37:26But, if you want to,
00:37:28if we are still worried about the application of religion,
00:37:31then we should be talking issues like
00:37:34religious anthropology,
00:37:37the sociology of religion.
00:37:39It addresses societal issues a lot.
00:37:42Yes, there's just something,
00:37:43I didn't want to abruptly just come in
00:37:46or disrupt the flow of your ideas.
00:37:49There's something which you said,
00:37:50I feel that you exaggerated somehow.
00:37:54Instead of taking the general to the particular,
00:37:58you're taking the particular to the general
00:38:00by saying that corruption is rewarded in the country.
00:38:03When we have ministers, prime ministers,
00:38:06all kinds of high-standing personalities in prison
00:38:11related to corruption.
00:38:12I think, yes, we accept corruption is there,
00:38:14accepted even at the top level of the country,
00:38:17but we cannot generalize that corruption is rewarded.
00:38:20I think what you are doing,
00:38:22you are doing the right thing,
00:38:23because you have to be ethical in your conversation,
00:38:26or the watchdog media will come after you.
00:38:30But what I'm saying,
00:38:31I'm confident about what I'm saying,
00:38:33so I'm not exaggerating.
00:38:35I have been around long enough
00:38:36to know the difference between
00:38:38when a country is moving on a moral higher ground
00:38:41and when they are moving on a moral lower ground.
00:38:43But you have a right to caution us
00:38:45that you cannot be pointing the finger
00:38:47that you allow your panelists to be loose.
00:38:50No, it's not a matter of watchdog,
00:38:53it's a matter of conviction.
00:38:55When I cite the people I'm citing,
00:38:58you agree with me
00:38:59that you have top officials in this country
00:39:01who are imprimanded, who are in prison.
00:39:05And the other question often comes, Kilian.
00:39:08I hope you are not going to carry us onto that lane,
00:39:10because we have a different topic
00:39:13that we are discussing here.
00:39:14Okay.
00:39:15Professor Zengwa,
00:39:17you've listened to Professor, to Dr. Isidore
00:39:21and to Reverend Emmanuel Bimaso,
00:39:23who has questioned some of the things that you said.
00:39:26We are developing this
00:39:28to take a position at the end of this program,
00:39:31probably to reorientate
00:39:33what so many people think that
00:39:35religious studies and moral education or something
00:39:38should be what Reverend Emmanuel Bimaso is saying,
00:39:44that the name is not so much important,
00:39:46it is what is put into that.
00:39:48Yes.
00:39:49Well, the four other panelists have said so many things
00:39:53that I'm even confused from where to begin.
00:39:55But let me say that my colleague,
00:39:58Professor Zumbusi concentrated on religion,
00:40:02which is very important.
00:40:03Religious studies is very important.
00:40:05Studying and knowing the differences
00:40:07between one religion and another
00:40:08and getting a middle point.
00:40:10Reverend Bimaso is talking about that middle point
00:40:12where we have inter-religious dialogue.
00:40:14And my friend was talking about
00:40:17more of morality than religion,
00:40:20to the best of my appreciation.
00:40:22But let me be very clear.
00:40:24That religion deals with crimes and punishments
00:40:28from a superior being.
00:40:30And their followers must be able to respect those.
00:40:34And religion has seven features.
00:40:38They have a doctrine.
00:40:40They have a mythology.
00:40:43They have concepts in each religion.
00:40:47They have institutions like the church, the monasteries.
00:40:50They have ethical values
00:40:52and of course they have rituals.
00:40:55And with them, I should add that
00:40:58with religion, what you don't understand, you should.
00:41:02No, you don't ask. You just accept.
00:41:04Are there scriptures there?
00:41:06The writings?
00:41:07Yeah, the writings.
00:41:08The sacred objects, of course.
00:41:10Sacred objects as well.
00:41:11So, that is religion.
00:41:13Well...
00:41:15canalized.
00:41:17And the followers of each religion
00:41:20that believes in a supreme being
00:41:22must follow that canalized doctrine
00:41:24whether they are convinced about it
00:41:27or they have doubts about it.
00:41:29In this light, when we think about morality
00:41:33morality, many people use morality and religion
00:41:36to be interchangeable.
00:41:37No.
00:41:38Much of religion is morality.
00:41:41But morality can exist on its own without religion.
00:41:46Now, the reverend said
00:41:48we should not bother about which religion.
00:41:50But the question I should ask is
00:41:52whose religion?
00:41:53Now, not which religion.
00:41:55Whose religion?
00:41:56Because in all of the precepts
00:41:59of what religion is supposed to be done
00:42:02we are talking about Christianity.
00:42:04We are talking about Islam.
00:42:05But we do understand
00:42:07that there are many other religions.
00:42:09Now, let me say, I'm talking from the perspective
00:42:12of a conflict
00:42:15manager
00:42:17where we struggle to manage conflicts.
00:42:19In the present way, religious authorities
00:42:22and the different religions fluctuate in Cameroon
00:42:25and operate.
00:42:26Even within Christianity
00:42:28we realize that the different Christian faiths
00:42:31have different doctrines.
00:42:33And if Catholicism is different from Presbyterians
00:42:36in one way or the other
00:42:37and they are different from the Baptists
00:42:39and then we have the Pentecostals
00:42:41the different elements of Pentecostals
00:42:43where some people say by their doctrine
00:42:45if you are sick you don't go to a medical doctor.
00:42:47Some others think that
00:42:49they can remove demons from others
00:42:53by sucking the breast
00:42:55or their lips.
00:42:56So, we have all of these different doctrines
00:43:00in religious sects and their doctrines.
00:43:03Question.
00:43:04Which?
00:43:05As you said earlier
00:43:08that conflicts, religion
00:43:11is sometimes a source of...
00:43:13It is fundamental.
00:43:15It is fundamental
00:43:17in terms of conflicts.
00:43:19When we see just the conflicts within religion
00:43:22we are going to start assessing
00:43:24how are we going to assess the religion.
00:43:27So, the Reverend accepts that.
00:43:29But when we come to morality
00:43:31morality is doing what is right
00:43:36without fear of any...
00:43:40Contradiction.
00:43:41No, no.
00:43:42Superior reward or retribution.
00:43:45So, you do what is right
00:43:46you are not afraid of a superior retribution
00:43:48or a superior reward.
00:43:50Meanwhile, Christianity or religion
00:43:53is when you do something
00:43:55at the back of your mind
00:43:56you want to be rewarded by a superior being
00:43:59or if you fail to
00:44:00you will be punished by that superior being
00:44:02that you don't know.
00:44:03Severely.
00:44:04One good thing is that
00:44:06religion is not at the origin of conflicts
00:44:11that there are some others
00:44:12and it is the same
00:44:14Professor Zumbishi, Erica and Sue.
00:44:18We are going to look at
00:44:19the way he looks at it
00:44:20before I come to you, Richard.
00:44:22Yes.
00:44:27Well, I don't think it will bring about
00:44:30the type of conflict that I think
00:44:32I imagine you are thinking
00:44:35because religious studies has specialists.
00:44:39There are specialists
00:44:40there are people who have been trained
00:44:42who are specialists in this discipline.
00:44:44We just need them
00:44:46invite them
00:44:47so that they should be able to draw
00:44:50a syllabus that will cut across
00:44:53and if you look at the advanced level syllabus
00:44:56even the old level syllabus
00:44:58you realize that it is a holistic syllabus
00:45:01because there Christianity is studied
00:45:03Islam is studied
00:45:05Buddhism is studied
00:45:07the African traditional religion is studied
00:45:10right?
00:45:11There is even a section there for social and moral life
00:45:15where ills like tribalism
00:45:18nepotism, corruption
00:45:20the idea of justice
00:45:22so when you look at the syllabus
00:45:25it is holistic in its nature
00:45:27and that is how a syllabus
00:45:30a syllabus for religious studies should be.
00:45:33Most people think that when we talk of religious studies
00:45:36they mistake it for Christian studies
00:45:39it is not.
00:45:40We talk of religious studies holistically
00:45:42in its entirety
00:45:44not being akin to one religion.
00:45:46The focal point
00:45:48is to make the learner know
00:45:50that no matter where
00:45:53no matter your spiritual dimension lies
00:45:56all those spiritualities
00:45:58have one central point
00:46:00there are many things
00:46:02there are so many things
00:46:04that bring these spiritualities together
00:46:06than the few things
00:46:08that separate them.
00:46:10And it will even help in national unity
00:46:13and the others
00:46:14because what is really destroying the world today
00:46:16is because
00:46:18so many people don't like to know the other person.
00:46:21Within the context of our country
00:46:23religious studies is even very important.
00:46:29Is he advancing?
00:46:31Is he actually advancing the debate?
00:46:33Well, I think I should have
00:46:35let me just say that
00:46:37I'm rather confused
00:46:39well, let's agree with him
00:46:40and we talk about a specialist
00:46:42who is supposed to train in religion
00:46:44those who are specialized in religion
00:46:46I still insist, which religion?
00:46:48I think that question has not been answered.
00:46:50The point is this
00:46:52let me come back to
00:46:54let me say this
00:46:55we are talking about a religion
00:46:57which is based on foreign importations
00:47:00where we have imported
00:47:02because Christianity is imported
00:47:04Islam is imported
00:47:06No, we are part of the world.
00:47:08That is exactly
00:47:10I think that he is having a serious problem
00:47:12because he mentions that there are
00:47:14specialists who are trained
00:47:16in this discipline.
00:47:17People who teach this subject are
00:47:19philosophers, historians
00:47:21that's men of God.
00:47:23Is there any school where they train these teachers?
00:47:26I think it's just
00:47:29I want to come back to something
00:47:31let me just say
00:47:33even in the terms of content that he is saying
00:47:35it's not the same
00:47:36because social life talks about societal ills
00:47:38and in the religious story itself
00:47:40I teach the subject
00:47:41in the religious story itself
00:47:43we begin from the patriarch
00:47:4560% or 70% of the things
00:47:47are the scripture
00:47:49about 10% or 20% talk about morality
00:47:51when you go to the gospel of Luke
00:47:53the scripture
00:47:55and then you go to Islam
00:47:57it's purely the doctrine
00:47:59there is nothing there like African traditional religion
00:48:01completely nothing
00:48:03that's what I wanted to find out
00:48:05let me come in
00:48:07after I rephrase you Richard
00:48:09because he is a moral authority
00:48:11he talks about that there are specialists
00:48:13who can always make a middle way
00:48:15who can always make a breakthrough
00:48:17he is scared that
00:48:19how do you
00:48:21which religion
00:48:23let me answer
00:48:25I have talked about interreligious dialogue
00:48:27that is the framework of
00:48:29the relationship between religions
00:48:31interreligious dialogue
00:48:33whereby we come together
00:48:35not to outdo the other
00:48:37we the different religions
00:48:39we come together
00:48:43don't forget that
00:48:45even the Christianity you call imported
00:48:47before Christianity was brought by colonialists
00:48:49there was
00:48:51a religion
00:48:53that is what we are saying
00:48:55but it is not in the syllabus
00:48:57I don't want to go into the question about
00:48:59colonial evangelism
00:49:01or the type of
00:49:03coming of Christianity by colonialists
00:49:05I don't want to go to that part
00:49:07let me try to give you
00:49:09let me propose a middle way
00:49:11in solving the conflicts
00:49:13amongst the different religions
00:49:15whether they are
00:49:17their natural religions
00:49:19or their imported religions
00:49:21is what we call interreligious dialogue
00:49:23when we come together
00:49:25we don't come to outdo the other
00:49:27we don't come to dominate the other
00:49:29we find what we call common grounds
00:49:31and they will do a constructive engagement
00:49:33so there should be no fear about
00:49:35which religion because
00:49:37these religions can always come together
00:49:39it ties with what he is saying
00:49:41that there are specialists
00:49:43when we come together
00:49:45there is a problem
00:49:47in coming together
00:49:49there is a problem
00:49:51in coming together
00:49:53there is a problem
00:49:55there is a problem
00:49:57there is a problem
00:49:59there is a problem
00:50:01there is a problem
00:50:03there is a problem
00:50:05there is a problem
00:50:07there is a problem
00:50:09there is a problem
00:50:11there is a problem
00:50:13there is a question I want to ask
00:50:15Reverend Iman Abimasok
00:50:17when he is talking about
00:50:19the interrelation
00:50:21dialogue
00:50:23what we know practically
00:50:25is that even within
00:50:27the protestant churches
00:50:29they do not agree
00:50:31on so many principles
00:50:33so how
00:50:35would they come together
00:50:37and leave together when
00:50:39this is a common example
00:50:41we only accept Christians
00:50:43who have been baptized by a nation
00:50:45we talk about
00:50:47how will you live together
00:50:49when those differences
00:50:51we talk about unity in diversity
00:50:53we talk about unity in diversity
00:50:55and we talk about unity is not uniformity
00:50:57so we
00:50:59these different facets
00:51:01of the Christian religion
00:51:03we may be different
00:51:05but we are not disunited
00:51:07because as we say
00:51:09unity in diversity
00:51:11I keep on saying
00:51:13how have these religions been operating in Cameroon
00:51:15over these years
00:51:17it is the interrelation dialogue we have been having
00:51:19and we have common grounds of constructive engagement
00:51:21so the fear of one
00:51:23leading the other
00:51:25does not come there
00:51:27the debate is weighing
00:51:29towards the proposal
00:51:31of Professor Zengwa
00:51:33because we already see the conflict
00:51:35within religion
00:51:37why don't we
00:51:39study morality
00:51:41that all these religions accept
00:51:43that is the point he is making
00:51:45we are saying that
00:51:47in all the religious belief systems
00:51:49be it cultural, traditional, imported or not
00:51:51there are moral values
00:51:53that cut across
00:51:55why don't we take those moral values
00:51:57which are generally acceptable
00:51:59and then forget about the individual
00:52:01religious doctrines
00:52:03and concentrate on moral values
00:52:05we might be making an error here
00:52:07because even the syllabus
00:52:09the program for religious studies
00:52:11the title even is wrong
00:52:13to title it religious studies
00:52:15it should be
00:52:17religious and moral studies
00:52:19because we handle aspects out of religion
00:52:21I mean he just said that
00:52:23let me say something
00:52:25let me say something
00:52:27let me say something
00:52:29I have been principal in secondary school for over 20 years
00:52:31and we had these conflicts
00:52:33when we created club activities
00:52:35and there was an issue of religion
00:52:37the Muslims had to come
00:52:39the Christians had to come
00:52:41the Pentecostals had to come
00:52:43and you created an unnecessary
00:52:45tense atmosphere
00:52:47within the establishment
00:52:49but when we thought of
00:52:51injecting moral values that cut across
00:52:53there was bound to be
00:52:55some sort of calm and harmony
00:52:57within the context
00:52:59now let's talk about the appreciation of the religious language
00:53:01please permit me
00:53:03without offending anybody
00:53:05that Cameroon
00:53:07as we said
00:53:09everything is moving
00:53:11in the wrong direction
00:53:13in terms of corruption
00:53:15almost moving in the wrong direction
00:53:17it means that you are also
00:53:19piloting it
00:53:21are you saying that you are also piloting
00:53:23people to move in the wrong direction
00:53:25we are saying that we should move towards the right direction
00:53:27there is adult delinquency
00:53:29there is juvenile delinquency
00:53:31can we say many things
00:53:33we cannot say everything
00:53:35if you can put your hand on one thing
00:53:37that is moving on 50% smooth
00:53:39in this country right now
00:53:41one thing is that you have come here and you are talking about
00:53:43I am about less than 50%
00:53:45but you said everything
00:53:47I don't agree with you
00:53:49don't put your finger on anything that is 50%
00:53:51moving accordingly
00:53:53and that's why we are saying that
00:53:55let us be courageous enough to say that
00:53:57this is not going and we make concrete suggestions
00:53:59to move us forward
00:54:01in all of the top positions
00:54:03in this country
00:54:05we went to mission schools
00:54:07the first schools in this country were all mission schools
00:54:09and most of those who are ruling this country today
00:54:11came up from these mission schools
00:54:13but we are seeing what we are seeing
00:54:15because we have not insisted
00:54:17and put a line on morality
00:54:19where we have punishments
00:54:21because part of the immorality
00:54:23is impunity
00:54:25see where you have exaggerated a bit
00:54:27when you started speaking here
00:54:29you paid reverence
00:54:31to two people
00:54:33as examples
00:54:35but you said everything is moving
00:54:37in the wrong direction
00:54:39we mean that all these people are moving in the wrong direction
00:54:41I just wanted you to hold back that statement
00:54:43and then we can go
00:54:45let's engage him on morality
00:54:47the issue of our morality
00:54:49I agree that it will be difficult to have
00:54:51everybody on board
00:54:53let's go back to the whole
00:54:55let's also challenge the whole
00:54:57let's make a critical reasoning on the morality issue
00:54:59in one and a half minutes
00:55:01while you are still insisting that
00:55:03moral education
00:55:05should be branded
00:55:07moral education
00:55:09I still also challenge you that
00:55:11increasingly
00:55:13with the movement of people
00:55:15the speed of communication
00:55:17the seemingly global village
00:55:19we are coming
00:55:21it will become very very difficult
00:55:23to define
00:55:25what is right and what is wrong
00:55:27even though you are saying that morality
00:55:29is accepted across the board
00:55:31let me ask the reverend a question
00:55:33are things going wrong
00:55:35because
00:55:37religious authorities, christians
00:55:39muslims and the rest
00:55:41they have allowed politics to the other people
00:55:43you don't accept to
00:55:45do re-politics
00:55:47should christians do politics
00:55:49I think to be very sincere
00:55:51so many facets
00:55:53are needed to build a nation
00:55:55should christians be involved
00:55:57in partisan politics
00:55:59I don't encourage
00:56:01churches to be involved
00:56:03in partisan politics
00:56:05and christians
00:56:07should
00:56:09practice politics with
00:56:11their christian morality
00:56:13let us for the last time get
00:56:15professor Zumbuchi
00:56:17has on christians
00:56:19doing politics when we come back
00:56:21we will go around
00:56:25I think
00:56:27there is this misguided
00:56:29argument that
00:56:31christians should not get into politics
00:56:33rather christians
00:56:35should get into politics and worship
00:56:37if they think that politics is
00:56:39they should get into it and worship
00:56:41when you read
00:56:43the book of Isaiah
00:56:45it is said
00:56:47there that when wicked
00:56:49people rule
00:56:51the people suffer
00:56:53so christians should get into politics
00:56:55and bring their christian morality
00:56:57into politics
00:56:59because christian morality warrants you not to embezzle
00:57:01christian morality warrants you
00:57:03not to be corrupt
00:57:05christian morality warrants you
00:57:07to come up with good laws that will
00:57:09accompany and accommodate
00:57:11people
00:57:13christian morality does not warrant you to be a tyrant
00:57:15so if you are a christian
00:57:17in the real sense of the word
00:57:19then politics is yours
00:57:21in 1988
00:57:23the bishops of the Episcopal
00:57:25Conference of Cameroon
00:57:27wrote a document
00:57:29in 1988
00:57:31where that document
00:57:33the bishops were
00:57:35encouraging christians to participate
00:57:37in political and public life
00:57:39right
00:57:41the bishops
00:57:43encouraging their faithful
00:57:45not to stay away from politics
00:57:47but to be part and parcel of the political process
00:57:49so any christian
00:57:51who thinks that
00:57:53he or she is not supposed to participate
00:57:55in politics because
00:57:57as they say politics is dirty
00:57:59it is an opportunity for them to get into it
00:58:01and wash it clean
00:58:03thank you very much christians
00:58:05that's his point of view
00:58:07now this is
00:58:09where we started
00:58:11your position on religious studies
00:58:13and recruitment or employment
00:58:15our NYU
00:58:17reverend yes professor
00:58:19well permit me just say that
00:58:21to quote Cardinal
00:58:23Toomey when he was talking
00:58:25to christians and
00:58:27men of God I think he made
00:58:29a declaration himself saying that
00:58:31when he accused them of
00:58:33being corrupt they said that
00:58:35the difference between their own corruption
00:58:37is that they are corrupt
00:58:39with a conscience
00:58:41while the others are corrupt
00:58:43without conscience
00:58:45this is clear indication
00:58:47that he was affirming that being religious
00:58:49or not they underline what is
00:58:51all of them are corrupt
00:58:53and let me be
00:58:55we don't have time to develop
00:58:57all of them are corrupt
00:58:59and if we are talking about morality
00:59:01when you look at the time
00:59:03I want to say
00:59:05begin with morality
00:59:07I think I go with Gandhi
00:59:09who says that I reject
00:59:11any religious doctrine
00:59:13that does not appeal
00:59:15to reason and that
00:59:17rejects morality
00:59:19thank you very much Richard
00:59:21well I was almost a spectator
00:59:23you didn't give me the time to
00:59:25advance my points
00:59:27I think as we are concluding
00:59:29my viewpoint is that the state
00:59:31should inculcate religious
00:59:33knowledge up to
00:59:35entering the civil service
00:59:37should be considered
00:59:39there should be nothing like
00:59:41excluding religious knowledge
00:59:43I think that
00:59:45the title religious knowledge should be
00:59:47established through religious and moral
00:59:49values and it should be considered into the public service
00:59:51and it should be noted here that
00:59:53one of the biggest problem of
00:59:55morality is because the lack of
00:59:57conscience and of course
00:59:59that is why you see
01:00:01you refuse to attend your patient in last agony
01:00:03until an extra fee is paid
01:00:05before they go
01:00:07that is lack of morality
01:00:09high officials going to prison for embezzlement and corruption
01:00:11military people or uniformed officers
01:00:13who are supposed to protect people
01:00:15property and territorial integrity
01:00:17are there harassing and molesting people
01:00:19thank you very much
01:00:21the last word
01:00:23government please recognize your own very subject
01:00:25you put on the curriculum
01:00:27number two if you want to refashion
01:00:29religious studies and moral studies
01:00:31very correct
01:00:33but above all
01:00:35let there be the will, the intention
01:00:37and let all the other forces fall in place
01:00:39thank you very much
01:00:41Reverend Emmanuel B. Massok
01:00:43secretary committee of the ministry
01:00:45of Presbyterian Church in Cameroon
01:00:47thank you for coming right away from Douala for the program
01:00:49thank you Professor Zungwa
01:00:51Willie Broad, political scientist
01:00:53educationist, thank you Richard
01:00:55Nder, Lajung publisher
01:00:57and Dr. Isidore Kwakun
01:00:59civil society
01:01:01and he is a philosopher
01:01:03thank you also Professor Zumbuchi
01:01:05Eric Nsou
01:01:07who was there to give his own position
01:01:09ladies and gentlemen
01:01:11we want to thank you for your time
01:01:13you have seen the position of press
01:01:15today and we just wish
01:01:17that this goes a long way
01:01:19to make a difference in society
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